FYI Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 I'd much rather see a Paris 2024 Olympics than a Boston one TBH. And I'm sure that I'm not the only one here. And actually, Rome would be my European preference, but with the current sluggish Italian economy, that one would be a tough sell. It says something about the U.S. 2024 bid candidate when it would take much of compelling competition not to enter the fray in order to have a better shot. The USOC probably woiuld've been better off in picking L.A. ^ I'm fine with them snoozing and losing by not putting in a bid. It gives the US a better shot. Rome could very well be its biggest competition if Berlin or Hamburg decide not to run either, and with Rome's economy what it is Boston is looking pretty sweet right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Some Parisian Politics said today that 2028 would be a better opportunity for Paris SoG. I think the opposition against a bid for 2024 become more and more stronger every day. But there are already some criticisms about the Paris plan for Universal Exhibition. It seems not realistic to win because it' doesn't respect some eligibility standard : Paris doesn't want to build venues like in the other Universal Exhibition Definitively I think France shouldn't bid to anything with the economic problem, we don't want to spend money and you can't bid without money. If Berlin (or even Rome) were to bid & win 2024, then that 'better opportunity' for 2028 for Paris is out the window. And also with the recent rumblings coming from South Africa that 2028 would be better for them instead of 2024 (bcuz of the 2022 CWG's), then Paris would directly have to deal with a strong & sentimental opponent. The window for Europe seems to be open wider for 2024 than it does for 2028, hypothetically speaking at this point. So if Paris wants to snooze & lose, then I guess that's their prerogative. I agree with FYI on this one. If the argument is that, all other things being equal (and they're not, but we'll get to that in a sec), Paris is better positioned to make a run for 2028 than 2024, I understand that logic. But all things are not equal. The flipside of that argument is given an equally strong Paris bid, which of the 2 Olympics do they have a better shot at, to me that's easily 2024. If Paris sits out 2024, they're taking a big risk. As FYI noted, if another European city comes in and gets 2024, Paris is probably looking at more than a 4 year wait. They'd essentially be banking on Boston winning and keeping Europe squarely in the conversation for 2028. But then there's that giant African elephant in the room. As we've had the discussion here before, you can't pick your competition. There's only so much that you can plan ahead with who you're going up against. Paris would be foolish to wait for more favorable circumstances. Maybe their situation improves 4 years from now and the field they're up against is softer. But that could backfire on them big time. To say nothing of the fact that their issues may not be any better then than they are now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 I'm fine with them snoozing and losing by not putting in a bid. It gives the US a better shot. Rome could very well be its biggest competition if Berlin or Hamburg decide not to run either, and with Rome's economy what it is Boston is looking pretty sweet right now. I'd much rather see a Paris 2024 Olympics than a Boston one TBH. And I'm sure that I'm not the only one here. And actually, Rome would be my European preference, but with the current sluggish Italian economy, that one would be a tough sell. It says something about the U.S. 2024 bid candidate when it would take much of compelling competition not to enter the fray in order to have a better shot. The USOC probably woiuld've been better off in picking L.A. I would be interested to see a Boston Olympics, but the New Yorker in me remembers that this is a quadrennial event and in a lot of ways, I want to see it in the biggest and brightest cities in the world. Would be nice to see a Paris Olympics in our lifetimes. They've been close before and I get that not everyone in France is behind the idea, but they deserve it sooner rather than later. And I don't know how solid Boston is looking. They're a little shaky in the support department (although as has been suggested, maybe it's all the bad weather that has them in a bad mood), so I think we're still at the point in the race where there isn't a real clear direction on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryker Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 IMO, this might be Paris' best opportunity since, say, the 1992 race. 2024 favors Europe. It would be the centennial of the 1924 Olympics. They have some iconic locations to feature events. It's like playing poker and having that perfect hand, you play it when it comes along. If they bypass entirely I don't think 2028 would necessarily be better especially if South Africa finally decides to give it a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchy Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Paris has officially announced is bid for the Universal Exhibition in 2025. The Mayor of Paris said they won't bid for 2024 and 2025. Does it mean Paris won't bid for SOG ? Maybe, but it's a strong evidence against SoG. The news in French : http://www.leparisien.fr/economie/video-expo-universelle-la-france-entame-son-operation-seduction-05-03-2015-4578727.php http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2015/03/05/97001-20150305FILWWW00328-exposition-universelle-paris-officialise-sa-candidature.php We're obviously not reading the same articles Tulsa. This one claims the contrary and says that there is nothing to stop France from organising both the 2024 SOG and the 2025 UE: http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/sport/jo-2024-et-expo-2025-deux-projets-qui-ne-se-marchent-pas-sur-les-pieds_1658406.html (in French) The article goes on to remind the reader that Spain held both the 1992 SOG in Barcelona and the UE in Seville the same year. That the rugby WC will be held in Japan in 2019 and the SOG in 2020 and that both the 2016 WC and 2018 SOG have/will take(n) place in Brazil. As for the suggestion that Paris should sit 2024 out and wait for 2028, it's only a minority that are voicing that proposition. Funnily most of them are from the 2025 UE bidding team!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchy Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 That's not a good sign for SOG 2024...but it doesn't officially cut off a 2024 bid. Cities still have until September this year to officially bid or not. It looks like the announcement of the Expo bid was also a way to show off the new Louis Vuitton Foundation bldg, more than anything else. If this was entirely official, it should've been done on the steps of the Hotel de Ville or some official city landmark. The Paris Hotel de Ville where the 2024 announcement was made is a 19th century building. The Louis Vuitton foundation is a 21st century one. Both bids (2024 & 2025) showcase what we did best yesterday and what we do best today and tomorrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faster Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Umm, remember a time when everyone was anointing another European city as the divinely rightful host of a certain Centennial Games and a pesky American city came along and stole the show. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Money talks and bullsh!t walks. The lure of substantial American money. Need I say more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchy Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Umm, remember a time when everyone was anointing another European city as the divinely rightful host of a certain Centennial Games and a pesky American city came along and stole the show. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Money talks and bullsh!t walks. The lure of substantial American money. Need I say more. I can't say that I completely disagree with that statement!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquaman617 Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 We're obviously not reading the same articles Tulsa. This one claims the contrary and says that there is nothing to stop France from organising both the 2024 SOG and the 2025 UE: http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/sport/jo-2024-et-expo-2025-deux-projets-qui-ne-se-marchent-pas-sur-les-pieds_1658406.html (in French) The article goes on to remind the reader that Spain held both the 1992 SOG in Barcelona and the UE in Seville the same year. That the rugby WC will be held in Japan in 2019 and the SOG in 2020 and that both the 2016 WC and 2018 SOG have/will take(n) place in Brazil. As for the suggestion that Paris should sit 2024 out and wait for 2028, it's only a minority that are voicing that proposition. Funnily most of them are from the 2025 UE bidding team!! The historical examples you've cited, though, aren't quite the same as Paris' hosting two global events in consecutive years. But I agree that '24 is Paris' best shot, perhaps ever, at hosting the Games. I think they'd be fools to pass it up, but then this is a Games forum... I'm sure somewhere there's an Expo forum where people are scratching their heads wondering why Paris would bother with the SOG! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Umm, remember a time when everyone was anointing another European city as the divinely rightful host of a certain Centennial Games and a pesky American city came along and stole the show. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Money talks and bullsh!t walks. The lure of substantial American money. Need I say more. I'm not sure anyone is "anointing" Paris here, but 2024 looks like a very good opportunity right now for them. I'm yet to be convinced by Boston (and nor, it seems are many Bostonians), and if S. Africa sits this one out then I would probably put Paris as quite a strong favourite. Not unbeatable, obviously, that'd be foolish to say. If Greece had a bid as strong as that which Paris 2024 is likely to put forward (if they bid), do you think the pesky American city would've stolen the show for 96? I'm really not sure we'd see the same outcome if it's Paris v Boston for 2024. The LA84 factor and the uncertainty over Athens' ability meant there was an upset. There's no question marks over Paris' ability and, dare I say it, but a London 2012 factor may be in play that favours Paris. The 2012 Games were obviously a success and the IOC liked the revenues a major European capital brought and so did the IFs who saw something of a windfall from the 2012 Games. Paris would have an enormous amount going for it. On top of that, I really feel the IOC would like to shore up Western Europe after the 2022 debacle. The American TV deal now makes a US Games a little less urgent. Lots of factors, but many roads seem to lead to Paris. If they want to bid. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 We're obviously not reading the same articles Tulsa. This one claims the contrary and says that there is nothing to stop France from organising both the 2024 SOG and the 2025 UE: http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/sport/jo-2024-et-expo-2025-deux-projets-qui-ne-se-marchent-pas-sur-les-pieds_1658406.html (in French) The article goes on to remind the reader that Spain held both the 1992 SOG in Barcelona and the UE in Seville the same year. That the rugby WC will be held in Japan in 2019 and the SOG in 2020 and that both the 2016 WC and 2018 SOG have/will take(n) place in Brazil. As for the suggestion that Paris should sit 2024 out and wait for 2028, it's only a minority that are voicing that proposition. Funnily most of them are from the 2025 UE bidding team!! Thank you for giving us outsiders a better light on the situation than that negative Nancy, Tulsa. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Money talks and bullsh!t walks. The lure of substantial American money. Need I say more. Right, that's why the last two Americsn bids were such successes. And that was before the lastest revenue broadcast deal was set, which it should've had more weight then than it would now since the contract are for the Games 'til 2032 no matter what. So that can't be used as leverage this time. If anything, it tells the IOC; "we don't have to give them 2024. There's still two other slots afterwards we could give them if/when they put up a more glamourous city that we can pillage". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamC Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 The thing with the EXPO 2025 bid is that we're against London for this one and Paris's bid plan seems really supbar compared to London (obviously we don't know much yet though). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Umm, remember a time when everyone was anointing another European city as the divinely rightful host of a certain Centennial Games and a pesky American city came along and stole the show. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Money talks and bullsh!t walks. The lure of substantial American money. Need I say more. That's all that Athens had going for them though, and they tried to play that card to the point no one was buying it. Paris has a lot more than it being the centennial of their previous Olympics, so it's not something they're going to use to try and win the bid. As for that American TV money.. the check has already been signed. The IOC gets no more and no less money from NBC based on whether the 2024 Olympics are in the United States or not. If they didn't have that contract in place yet, then you could easily make the argument that placing the 2024 Olympics would help their bottom line. But that ship has sailed all the way through 2032. I think the United States will land an Olympics somewhere in that span, but it doesn't mean the US is more likely to land the first available Olympics since that deal was signed. IMO, this might be Paris' best opportunity since, say, the 1992 race. 2024 favors Europe. It would be the centennial of the 1924 Olympics. They have some iconic locations to feature events. It's like playing poker and having that perfect hand, you play it when it comes along. If they bypass entirely I don't think 2028 would necessarily be better especially if South Africa finally decides to give it a go. I like the poker analogy, except Paris has far from a perfect hand. They have a good enough hand, but it's a matter of pushing all their chips to the middle of the table and trying to assess what the other cities are holding. And you're right, this hand might be easier to win than the next one if they're holding the same cards. Analogies aside.. this could be Paris's best chance of the 4. The `92 race was stacked against them. 2008 was simply not a good time to bid. And 2012 was flip of a coin between them and London that happened to go London's way. If they believe they have goods for 2024, there should be no hesitation whatsoever towards entering that race. Winning an Olympic bid is not an easy thing to do. They shouldn't be intimidated about who else is out there. And I still get the sense that while there is some negativity, it's coming together on this forum in ways that don't reflect the reality of the situation. If Paris chooses not to bid for 2024, that's an understandable decision. But if Paris chooses to sit out 2024 because they're waiting for 2028, I believe that's a very foolish decision. The thing with the EXPO 2025 bid is that we're against London for this one and Paris's bid plan seems really supbar compared to London (obviously we don't know much yet though). Turkey 2020. That is all. They could have had Euro 2020, but the IOC told them no way if they also wanted to bid for the Olympics. And they got neither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 If Paris chooses not to bid for 2024, that's an understandable decision. But if Paris chooses to sit out 2024 because they're waiting for 2028, I believe that's a very foolish decision. Totally agree with this. There's no guarantee that the circumstances would be any better for Paris for 2028, especially if another European city does indeed get 2024. And even if it doesn't, what's to say that other (&/or the same) European cities won't go for 2028 then. In either case, Paris would still have to deal with other European cities or likely the U.S. (again) &/or South Africa. In either scenario, I see Paris would still be up against stiff competition. Turkey 2020. That is all. They could have had Euro 2020, but the IOC told them no way if they also wanted to bid for the Olympics. And they got neither. The two major differences I see here though, are that the Expo 2025 is still a year after the 2024 Summer Olympics, versus only a mere month or two how Turkey was looking to pull it off. So based on that alone, I'd say that France could easily handle both in seperate years versus Turkey in less than a couple of months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 The two major differences I see here though, are that the Expo 2025 is still a year after the 2024 Summer Olympics, versus only a mere month or two how Turkey was looking to pull it off. So based on that alone, I'd say that France could easily handle both in seperate years versus Turkey in less than a couple of months. And part of the story with Turkey is that the IOC pretty much told them not to bid for Euro 2020 if they wanted any shot at an Olympics. That's unlikely to be the case here. So the lesson to be learned is that if Paris wants an Olympics, don't put that effort on hold for another event they may not even get. When would the decision be made on Expo 2025? Would that be decided before or after the 2017 vote on the Olympics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshi Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Can anyone from France explain why they want an expo? What benefit does Paris expect to get when compared to the Olympics? What coverage does the expo get over there? I can only speak for this country, but before doing a little googling just now, I didn't even know there was an expo in Milan this year, so it's a pretty much non-event here, maybe it's a bigger deal on the continent. Compare this to an Olympics which would be referenced in mainstream media around the world for years beforehand. Also, that's the first I've heard of London wanting an expo :s 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 The thing with the EXPO 2025 bid is that we're against London for this one and Paris's bid plan seems really supbar compared to London Does it?! To be honest, I have no idea what's planned for London's bid. It's received no news coverage at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatinXTC Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 What exactly is these Expos? I hear about them but never really knew what they were about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nacre Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 What exactly is these Expos? I hear about them but never really knew what they were about. Expos are World's Fairs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_Fair The advantage of the World's Fairs over the Olympics are . . . 1) The construction projects are usually more useful than the Olympic venues. IE an exhibition hall can be converted into a convention center. 2) It puts a lot more emphasis on creative freedom and new technology in building new projects. IE the Eiffel Tower was built for a World's Fair. 3) The world's fair doesn't attract much international attention, but it also doesn't require the host city to provide housing for athletes, the IOC, media officials, etc. 4) Expos last for several months instead of three weeks, so they can sell way more tickets. Shanghai sold 73 million tickets to Expo 2010 while Beijing 2008 had 6.8 million total tickets. They are basically obsolete now because of television and the internet. Today new technology will be obsoleted between the time a city bids for a fair and then finally hosts it. But in the 1850's-1940's a world's fair was really the only way for the lower classes to see the world. So they were extremely popular back then. Way more popular than the Olympics are now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofan Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Frankly, Expos are a complete and utter waste of money. They're are akin to Blackberry's. A dead concept that some idiots still seem to find value in. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nacre Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 (edited) Frankly, Expos are a complete and utter waste of money. They're are akin to Blackberry's. A dead concept that some idiots still seem to find value in. I don't think that's entirely true. You have to understand that the World's Fairs have the opposite model of the Olympics. The Olympics reveals the host city to the world, while the fair is supposed to reveal the world to the host city. The fair isn't really supposed to have a global profile. North America hasn't cared about the world's fair since the 1980's because there hasn't been a world's fair in North America since the 1980's. If there were a world's fair in Toronto I think it would get more attention from Canadians than the Pan American Games have. Edited March 6, 2015 by Nacre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted March 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Worlds Fairs work more for Europe and the China-Korea-Japan triangle because they love to see these actual mish-mashes of technological displays and architectural feasts. Also, it's the foreign countries that pay for the pavilions and running them. The only thing the host provides is the land, power and security. It works very well in Europe because for very short travel time, you have over 50 nationalities who can get there...and it makes for a GREAT educational tool for school groups in the summer and the costs are entirely reasonable I LOVE Expos. The USA does not need an Expo because there is one running at EPCOT in Orlando every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR2028 Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Frankly, Expos are a complete and utter waste of money. They're are akin to Blackberry's. A dead concept that some idiots still seem to find value in. Bingo. Worlds Fairs work more for Europe and the China-Korea-Japan triangle because they love to see these actual mish-mashes of technological displays and architectural feasts. Also, it's the foreign countries that pay for the pavilions and running them. The only thing the host provides is the land, power and security. It works very well in Europe because for very short travel time, you have over 50 nationalities who can get there...and it makes for a GREAT educational tool for school groups in the summer and the costs are entirely reasonable I LOVE Expos. The USA does not need an Expo because there is one running at EPCOT in Orlando every day. Additionally the Soviet Union has collapsed so there is no real point in the US trying to show off American innovation because US innovation is already in most of our pockets. The US actually dropped out of the Expo organization sometime in 2000 and our last expo was in New Orleans in 1984. I think we should host an expo again, more as a sign of global friendship than anything. Not to mention Epcot sucks since Disney decided to bulldoze the Norway Pavilion and build Frozen land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixie_Victoria Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 Oh let's discuss Paris 2024 opening ceremony, shall we!? Just kidding... That's all up to the pro-Games...But my humble opinion is that you should include Flo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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