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I'm not against Paris. I just said, actually France and Paris have some weakness. Even if our economy is bad, of course Paris could host SoG in 2024. And I agree, it could one of the less expensive games since a long time.

But i'm not sure about the team spirit in the Paris 2024 team, you have already some disagreement between politics, french government isn't very popular and french citizen could be against because the president support Paris 2024, medias are not very hot like in the past and the public fervor isn't very strong and lower than for 2012.

But Paris can overcome these problems, but it will be really difficult. It's the reasons why I think Paris is not ready for 2024.

Last point, USA seem very strong for this attempt and France isn't good for lobbying like USA.

The weaknesses Paris seems to have appear to be your assumptions based on the popularity of the current government, but that is not the sole reason public support will lag.

Boston is probably the weakest US bid since Atlanta 1996. If it beats Paris, Rome, or a German bid I would be shocked (less if it was Rome, but still surprised). And if the US is so good a lobbying then why did we loose two consecutive bids? Obviously France must be better because they were able to make the final two in 2012 where as New York was out in the second round. Brazil must be better as well because it won the games where as Chicago was out in the first round.

I actually think that the US is terrible at lobbying for the games.

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Rendering of the Olympic stadium (stade de France) and the aquatic center. 

Because Baron.

Last point, USA seem very strong for this attempt and France isn't good for lobbying like USA.

Considering Paris lost 2012 by a mere three votes (& when they were being low-key about it as to not to appear "too arrogant"), I'd say they did pretty darn good. Especially when you're comparing it to the U.S. when they got the door literally slammed in their faces in their last two attempts. So I say there's no comparison there.

When you "USA", you really should say Boston. Bcuz in the context that you're trying to use it, I wouldn't categorize the two as being one in the same. Yes, Boston is in the U.S., but when putting them up against bigger European competition, the "USA" banner will only take Boston so far. I believe that you're really overstating Boston here & seriously underestimating a potential Paris run, since all of your arguments against Paris can easily be applied to Boston as well. Not everyone in Boston is all onboard over this & you continually saying that somehow they "seem very strong" doesn't change that.

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I actually think that the US is terrible at lobbying for the games.

On what basis do you formulate this opinion? You do know there are strictures and rules on lobbying? And yet in the last 35 years, what country has hosted 4 Olympic Games? :blink: Canada (our northern neighbor) is the only other country close to that record with 3 OGs. So, you were saying about being "terrible at lobbying"? If you were in the thick of things there, I doubt that you could do any better.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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On what basis do you formulate this opinion? You do know there are strictures and rules on lobbying? And yet in the last 35 years, what country has hosted 4 Olympic Games? :blink: Canada (our northern neighbor) is the only other country close to that record with 3 OGs. So, you were saying about being "terrible at lobbying"? If you were in the thick of things there, I doubt that you could do any better.

Salt Lake City had the best bid money could buy......

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On what basis do you formulate this opinion? You do know there are strictures and rules on lobbying? And yet in the last 35 years, what country has hosted 4 Olympic Games? :blink: Canada (our northern neighbor) is the only other country close to that record with 3 OGs. So, you were saying about being "terrible at lobbying"? If you were in the thick of things there, I doubt that you could do any better.

Well given that the US has not been able to secure a games since 1995, I would say that the US has lost their magic touch of past years.

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Well given that the US has not been able to secure a games since 1995, I would say that the US has lost their magic touch of past years.

And do you really think that even a "host from on-high" would win when very obviously, even a dimwit can read in between the lines that the IOC likes to spread their Games around? Is that something you do NOT see? :rolleyes: The Games will come back to the US when the time is right; when the other parts of the world have been satisfied -- and if the USOC weren't too greedy with just wanting the BIG Games when they could very well have the smaller Games. They're guilty exactly of what the Spanish Olympic Committee was aiming for -- except that the USOC has changed horses every time whereas the SNOC only had one.

Thanks for reminding us exactly why the US shoudln't bid/host again any time soon. You know, time for OTHER COUNTRIES to host the games!!!

Yeah, exactly...that's what the IOC has tried to tell the US (and Spain) if only they listened.

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Thanks for reminding us exactly why the US shoudln't bid/host again any time soon. You know, time for OTHER COUNTRIES to host the games!!!

The US is the IOC's biggest partner, the US is guaranteed at least four games a century.

And do you really think that even a "host from on-high" would win when very obviously, even a dimwit can read in between the lines that the IOC likes to spread their Games around? Is that something you do NOT see? :rolleyes: The Games will come back to the US when the time is right; when the other parts of the world have been satisfied -- and if the USOC weren't too greedy with just wanting the BIG Games when they could very well have the smaller Games. They're guilty exactly of what the Spanish Olympic Committee was aiming for -- except that the USOC has changed horses every time whereas the SNOC only had one.

Yeah, exactly...that's what the IOC has tried to tell the US (and Spain) if only they listened.

What the hell are you arguing? I said the US is bad at lobbying for votes which even though I seriously doubt New York or Chicago would have won their respective bids, but if the US is so much better at lobbying than France then the US should have at least made it to the third or second votes.

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On what basis do you formulate this opinion? You do know there are strictures and rules on lobbying? And yet in the last 35 years, what country has hosted 4 Olympic Games? :blink:

The USA has also bid with an absolutely ridiculous number of cities, though. For the period of 1948-1956 the USA averaged five different cities bidding for EACH games. Los Angeles has bid as many times as Berlin and Paris combined. Detroit has bid seven times.

And over the last 100 years which summer games has the USA won? Twice when Los Angeles was the only bid. And once with Atlanta. For the last 100 years (1915+), when the USA has competed against other cities for the summer games, it has 1 winning bid out of 34.

The winter games are another story, of course. Which is what makes a Boston bid for 2024 even wackier, since a Boston bid for the winter games could have the opening ceremonies at Fenway Park (with a temporary roof of some kind) and use the sledding track at Lake Placid.

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The USA has also bid with an absolutely ridiculous number of cities, though. For the period of 1948-1956 the USA averaged five different cities bidding for EACH games. Los Angeles has bid as many times as Berlin and Paris combined. Detroit has bid seven times.

And over the last 100 years which summer games has the USA won? Twice when Los Angeles was the only bid. And once with Atlanta. For the last 100 years (1915+), when the USA has competed against other cities for the summer games, it has 1 winning bid out of 34.

The winter games are another story, of course. Which is what makes a Boston bid for 2024 even wackier, since a Boston bid for the winter games could have the opening ceremonies at Fenway Park (with a temporary roof of some kind) and use the sledding track at Lake Placid.

lol what? Boston is bidding for the SUMMER games of 2024. There is no winter games in 2024, there is one in 2022 and 2026.

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The USA has also bid with an absolutely ridiculous number of cities, though. For the period of 1948-1956 the USA averaged five different cities bidding for EACH games. Los Angeles has bid as many times as Berlin and Paris combined. Detroit has bid seven times.

And over the last 100 years which summer games has the USA won? Twice when Los Angeles was the only bid. And once with Atlanta. For the last 100 years (1915+), when the USA has competed against other cities for the summer games, it has 1 winning bid out of 34.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Details. I look at the whole picture half-full...rather than half-empty as you do. The IOC looks bad when there are no bidders.

The winter games are another story, of course. Which is what makes a Boston bid for 2024 even wackier, since a Boston bid for the winter games could have the opening ceremonies at Fenway Park (with a temporary roof of some kind) and use the sledding track at Lake Placid.

Do you think if Boston was viable as a WOG city in the past - pre-Agenda 2020, the USOC would not have considered it? The whole template for BOTH Games has changed with Agenda 2020, so bringing in comparisons like you did is NOT valid.

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What the hell are you arguing? I said the US is bad at lobbying for votes which even though I seriously doubt New York or Chicago would have won their respective bids, but if the US is so much better at lobbying than France then the US should have at least made it to the third or second votes.

Because I disagree with you and your argument is screwy. They lobby as well as the next person, and within the weird rules of the game -- but you can only lobby so much if there are parties who prefer the other cities. You can promise Rolls Royces and penthouses in Manhattan but if you're a Soviet era appartchik committed to PyongYang or Havana, then what good is all that gold in the world??

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I've been reading a lot about Paris 2024, and it looks like Paris WILL bid in the end. It's looking good, and they've learned from their mistakes (2008, 2012). The bid will be quite compact, with a cluster stretching from the Stade de France to the Charles de Gaulle airport. There is very little that needs to be built, and even recently, the owner of the Arena 92 has offered to transform temporarily the place to host the swimming competitions. The Olympic Village will either be part of the "Paris Central Park" project at Aubervilliers or will use the 300 ha space of the former PSA Peugeot factory at Aulnay-sous-bois. The Parc des Expositions of Villepinte (the biggest in France) would be used, as well as a new Arena at le Tremblay. An aquatic center is still considered at Aubervilliers. Mayor Hidalgo would like to incorporate the La Villette area though I don't have much info about this. All of this area between the Stade de France and the Charles de Gaulle airport (with the Bourget private airport in between) will be connected to Paris city centre with the new metro lines. To me, this is all looking better every day.

Oh, I also read that the people reponsible for chosing the host city of the Universal Exhibit have told Mayor Hidalgo that the Paris bid for the 2025 UE would not be accepted as it is now. Quite negative, isn't it? That also explains why Hidalgo is more and more into an Olympics bid.

The committee for Paris 2024 has made contact with the IOC to enter the discussion phase, and a visit at Lausanne will be made soon (probably after the Paris' Council vote is held in April).

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I've been reading a lot about Paris 2024, and it looks like Paris WILL bid in the end. It's looking good, and they've learned from their mistakes (2008, 2012). The bid will be quite compact, with a cluster stretching from the Stade de France to the Charles de Gaulle airport. There is very little that needs to be built, and even recently, the owner of the Arena 92 has offered to transform temporarily the place to host the swimming competitions. The Olympic Village will either be part of the "Paris Central Park" project at Aubervilliers or will use the 300 ha space of the former PSA Peugeot factory at Aulnay-sous-bois. The Parc des Expositions of Villepinte (the biggest in France) would be used, as well as a new Arena at le Tremblay. An aquatic center is still considered at Aubervilliers. Mayor Hidalgo would like to incorporate the La Villette area though I don't have much info about this. All of this area between the Stade de France and the Charles de Gaulle airport (with the Bourget private airport in between) will be connected to Paris city centre with the new metro lines. To me, this is all looking better every day.

Oh, I also read that the people reponsible for chosing the host city of the Universal Exhibit have told Mayor Hidalgo that the Paris bid for the 2025 UE would not be accepted as it is now. Quite negative, isn't it? That also explains why Hidalgo is more and more into an Olympics bid.

The committee for Paris 2024 has made contact with the IOC to enter the discussion phase, and a visit at Lausanne will be made soon (probably after the Paris' Council vote is held in April).

Thanks for that! I'm looking forward to the 2024 bids more and more now that it seems likely Paris will put in a bid after all! :)

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I've been reading a lot about Paris 2024, and it looks like Paris WILL bid in the end. It's looking good, and they've learned from their mistakes (2008, 2012). The bid will be quite compact, with a cluster stretching from the Stade de France to the Charles de Gaulle airport. There is very little that needs to be built, and even recently, the owner of the Arena 92 has offered to transform temporarily the place to host the swimming competitions. The Olympic Village will either be part of the "Paris Central Park" project at Aubervilliers or will use the 300 ha space of the former PSA Peugeot factory at Aulnay-sous-bois. The Parc des Expositions of Villepinte (the biggest in France) would be used, as well as a new Arena at le Tremblay. An aquatic center is still considered at Aubervilliers. Mayor Hidalgo would like to incorporate the La Villette area though I don't have much info about this. All of this area between the Stade de France and the Charles de Gaulle airport (with the Bourget private airport in between) will be connected to Paris city centre with the new metro lines. To me, this is all looking better every day.

Oh, I also read that the people reponsible for chosing the host city of the Universal Exhibit have told Mayor Hidalgo that the Paris bid for the 2025 UE would not be accepted as it is now. Quite negative, isn't it? That also explains why Hidalgo is more and more into an Olympics bid.

The committee for Paris 2024 has made contact with the IOC to enter the discussion phase, and a visit at Lausanne will be made soon (probably after the Paris' Council vote is held in April).

Great news.

Btw, do you know what JO means in English slang? You might want to change your name once you find out.

Edited by ofan
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Great news.

Btw, do you know what JO means in English slang? You might want to change your name once you find out.

No I don't. Please tell me. But you know it stands for Jeux Olympiques, right?

Oh I see now. Well, it's a Games bids website, not a porn one, so I'm happy to stick with my name! But thanks for the tip! ;-)

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No I don't. Please tell me. But you know it stands for Jeux Olympiques, right?

Oh I see now. Well, it's a Games bids website, not a porn one, so I'm happy to stick with my name! But thanks for the tip! ;-)

As a French speaker I knew what you meant, but it's still funny :D

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Thanks for reminding us exactly why the US shoudln't bid/host again any time soon. You know, time for OTHER COUNTRIES to host the games!!!

USA is the main partner of IOC. IOC can't ignore another USA bid, Boston will win even it isn't the best bid from USA.

You can't compare USA with other countries, USA is bigger than Europe and it's more than 300 millions of habitants, it's the 1 first market in the world for sport, and the top sponsors of IOC come from USA.

Maybe without USA, Sog and WoG should no longer exist.

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I really hope Paris wins. Not because it deserves it. (Although it does.) But because it would help restore the Olympics to the path it should be following; the Olympics should be held in cities that already have sporting infrastructure rather than going to whatever government willing to force its people to spend a big chunk of their GDP on stadiums with little to no use after the games.

lol what? Boston is bidding for the SUMMER games of 2024. There is no winter games in 2024, there is one in 2022 and 2026.

I don't want to clutter the Paris thread with a Boston discussion, so I answered in the Boston thread here.

http://www.gamesbids.com/forums/topic/22351-boston-2024-exploratory-committee/page-174

Edited by Nacre
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USA is the main partner of IOC. IOC can't ignore another USA bid, Boston will win even it isn't the best bid from USA.

You can't compare USA with other countries, USA is bigger than Europe and it's more than 300 millions of habitants, it's the 1 first market in the world for sport, and the top sponsors of IOC come from USA.

Maybe without USA, Sog and WoG should no longer exist.

Over-dramatic a little much are we?

This is why we take your opinions at face value. You keep making this case against Paris bidding. Sometimes it's because of the economic situation. Sometimes it's because the IOC isn't trustworthy. Sometimes it's because 2028 would be better. It's very inconsistent.

Then when you hear about Paris intentions to bid, you push back even further trying to make the case for the United States. How'd that work out for them in 2012 and 2016. I know the circumstances were different then, but the IOC ignored the Untied States before. They could do so again if Paris is in the running.

The Olympics shouldn't exist without the United States? Tell that to NBC paying their billions of dollars and now going on more than 20 years without a Games held in the United States.

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USA is the main partner of IOC. IOC can't ignore another USA bid, Boston will win even it isn't the best bid from USA.

You can't compare USA with other countries, USA is bigger than Europe and it's more than 300 millions of habitants, it's the 1 first market in the world for sport, and the top sponsors of IOC come from USA.

Maybe without USA, Sog and WoG should no longer exist.

Oh you....

The Modern Olympics were NOT created by the US. Remember who did that. If Paris and Boston are both bidding, I don't see how Boston could win considering Paris has every (or most) venues already existing and could show how Olympic Games could show some very reasonable Games with little constuction, a minimised cost, and yet, grea Games. Thats is not the case for Boston.

The IOC has been quite generous with the US in the past (I will never forget that the US had 2 games within 12 years), and when I read that Salt Lake City city is seriously planning to bid for 2026 I'm just like...well...you know. Seriously???

If Paris, Rome, Berlin or Hamburg and Boston all bid, with Bostin winning, I will have lost ALL faith to the IOC and will have to end my love for the Games. In all seriousness.

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If Paris, Rome, Berlin or Hamburg and Boston all bid, with Bostin winning, I will have lost ALL faith to the IOC and will have to end my love for the Games. In all seriousness.

Sorry, but now you're just starting to sound like Tulsa here but to the other extreme. While in a field that you just described, I don't see Boston winning either, (akin to 2012 with all major European candidates & one not quite as strong, technically speaking, North American entry). I also think that saying that "all of your faith" in the IOC would diminish & "will have to end your love for the Games. In all seriousness" in the event that Boston were to win, is a bit well, melodramatic.

I could still see Boston winning over Rome (with their still struggling economy) & Hamburg. Where it does start to become much more of a challenge for them is with Paris, & to a lesser extent Berlin, in the picture. But that doesn't automatically mean that both of those would be unbeatable, cuz that would be a silly thing to say.

While on the surface Paris would make the most sense as far as having most things already in place, all things being equal though, in a crucial vote, it's attitudes like these that can, & have, created the most surprising upsets in the past. It wouldn't be the first time, though, that these type of things haven't been said before by some of the supporters of losing bid cities.

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