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Even with out the CNN coverage a great deal of Chicagoan's when interviewed before and after the bid could not comprehend their city loosing. Even now some people are salty about the results.

Why what do you want them to say? "Gee, we're really not surprised that we lost, we saw it coming." Again, it's what I said about New York.. so many of these bid leaders from various cities come in with a certain level of confidence where they're convinced they can win. And as a result, the vibe they give off is that they're going to win and they're surprised if they don't. There were certainly those in New York who thought we were going to win that vote in 2005, but it was mostly people who didn't know any better to realize it wasn't likely to happen. That's why NYC took the loss pretty well. Shortly thereafter, it was put in the past and the city moved on. Obviously plenty of people in Chicago had the same thought process, only they didn't deal with the loss as well because they really thought they were going to get it done.

There are also going to be hurt feelings and sore losers after the fact. If nothing else, that's the sign of a city who put in a good enough effort to think they would win. But if you have 4 cities bidding, that means 3 of them are going to lose and there are no prizes for 2nd place in this. Again though, don't confuse the thoughts of a select few who don't necessarily represent the masses as opposed to those with a better understanding of Olympic bidding (and I'm not just talking about us here, but such people can often be few and far better) who accept that Chicago didn't win and at most, simply were a little surprised to see them go out first.

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Rendering of the Olympic stadium (stade de France) and the aquatic center. 

Because Baron.

The same could be said for Munich 2018, too. Some German athletes denounced the IOC after PyeongChang's sound win. If you wanna talk about "sore losers", there are plenty of other cities that are way ahead of Chicago when it comes down to that aspect. IDK what you're grudge against the city, but perhaps it's something personal cuz you're just over embellishing at this point, since your video didn't "prove" anything.

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There were plenty of sore losers from Chicago, even on this forum. There were many who were somehow insulted that they went out first but who, by implication, would've had no problem whatsoever with a city the stature of Tokyo going out first (I asked this question many times from some of the grumpier Chicagoans and never got a response which made sense). Actually, I was a little surprised by the reactions of some (especially since I was a Chicago supporter throughout that race). Maybe it was the case in 2016 that the media had hyped up Chicago's chances so much that the shock was that much greater. The contrast with the collective shrug from NYC after their defeat was obvious!

The worst losers I remember were the Madrid 2012 lot. I think there was huge disappointment and some sour grapes from Paris, but some of the Madrid supporters really didn't take it well.

Edited by Rob.
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The worst losers I remember were the Madrid 2012 lot. I think there was huge disappointment and some sour grapes from Paris, but some of the Madrid supporters really didn't take it well.

Perhaps that has something to do with the rumor of a supposed arrangement that Madrid and paris were supposed to tie and Madrid knocking out Paris, and Madrid going on to win over London. I honestly wish Madrid had it that year, so that I could have been in the city during Olympic fever and a month before the games would have been held.

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How could have Spain hosted 20 years after their last Summer Games, when they were facing cities like London, New York and Paris? They didn't stand a chance.

I think that Paris' arrogance back in 2012 was due to the fact that it was considered by many people as a winner. It doesn't help when you're in a race and everyone says you're gonna win and in the end you don't.

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How could have Spain hosted 20 years after their last Summer Games, when they were facing cities like London, New York and Paris? They didn't stand a chance.

If Los Angeles and Atlanta can host 12 years apart, then Barcelona and Madrid hosting 20 years apart could have been a possibility. And just because they're both cities in the same country does not mean you're going to get the same exact Olympic experience. Have you ever been to Spain? I have, and I can tell you that there are significant cultural differences between Barcelona and Madrid that perhaps are not clear to those who have never visited. Not only that, there are significant differences in regions as well, with Barcelona being located right on the coast of the Mediterranean and Madrid is pretty much the dead center of Spain.

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If Los Angeles and Atlanta can host 12 years apart, then Barcelona and Madrid hosting 20 years apart could have been a possibility. And just because they're both cities in the same country does not mean you're going to get the same exact Olympic experience. Have you ever been to Spain? I have, and I can tell you that there are significant cultural differences between Barcelona and Madrid that perhaps are not clear to those who have never visited. Not only that, there are significant differences in regions as well, with Barcelona being located right on the coast of the Mediterranean and Madrid is pretty much the dead center of Spain.

This has been discussed ad infinitum before. It's NOT that Madrid and Barcelona have quite different cultures. It's that Spain, a middling country in Olympic sports, at best -- already had its fling in the Olympic sun in 1992 -- and that was with the Olympic jefe rigging things in favor of his hometown. A country the size and importance of Spain all things Olympic isn't due for another hosting until all the other major countries before it (uhmmm...France, Germany, the US, the African continent, etc.) have had their second chance again.

Weren't you aware that even JAS cautioned the Madrilenos that the IOC would not favor Spain again -- but that they just ignored him and ran anyway??

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There were plenty of sore losers from Chicago, even on this forum. There were many who were somehow insulted that they went out first but who, by implication, would've had no problem whatsoever with a city the stature of Tokyo going out first (I asked this question many times from some of the grumpier Chicagoans and never got a response which made sense). Actually, I was a little surprised by the reactions of some (especially since I was a Chicago supporter throughout that race). Maybe it was the case in 2016 that the media had hyped up Chicago's chances so much that the shock was that much greater. The contrast with the collective shrug from NYC after their defeat was obvious!

Sorry Rob. But you're painting a very blurry picture here once again on this. When the geopolitics were favoring the Americas' (& NOT Tokyo nor even Asia, for that matter, bcuz of Beijing 2008 a year before the 2016 vote), then yeah, there were going to be some people, (especially the ones who don't follow these things as closely as we do here on Gamesbids) who are going to be surprised by Chicago's early elimination. So I don't see how that makes some supporters "grumpier" & not getting the "response" that you were looking for when that in itself is pretty sufficient.

Like I said the last time you brought this up, if London had been the first one tossed in the 2012 vote, the British media & 'many' London 2012 supporters I'm sure would've reacted the same way. And judging by how they all reacted to the England 2018 first round loss (including here on these forums as well), citing how the World Cup was "sold" to Russia, & by 'implication' then would've had no problem whatsoever in a country the stature of Russia or even Spain going out first instead of England, that wouldn't be too far off then.

Perhaps that has something to do with the rumor of a supposed arrangement that Madrid and paris were supposed to tie and Madrid knocking out Paris, and Madrid going on to win over London.

I don't even recall that much Madrid 2012 being 'worst losers' TBH (but perhaps though, that was most likely due bcuz the surprising loss was on Paris instead). Not like Madrid 2020 was, citing how "disgraceful" the IOC was/is in "disrespecting" so much by tossing them out first in the vote after trying so hard so many times.

If Los Angeles and Atlanta can host 12 years apart, then Barcelona and Madrid hosting 20 years apart could have been a possibility.

Spain isn't the U.S., though. And even then, the USOC wasn't really expecting to win with Atlanta. It just happened to work out that way due to the lack of stellar competition in the 1996 field, & Athens' lack of preparedness.

Now contrast that to Madrid competing in an Olympic stellar filed which included all of the other major European capitals (whose nations respectively hadn't hosted a Summer Olympics as recent as Spain had & where Paris was the huge favorite), then no, 20 years between Iberian Olympics couldn't even have been a possibility, no matter how "diverse" Spain is.

That same argument hardly works for the U.S. a huge Olympic partner, much less so for a country not as significant (relatively speaking) as the U.S. or bigger Western European neighbors.

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If Los Angeles and Atlanta can host 12 years apart, then Barcelona and Madrid hosting 20 years apart could have been a possibility. And just because they're both cities in the same country does not mean you're going to get the same exact Olympic experience. Have you ever been to Spain? I have, and I can tell you that there are significant cultural differences between Barcelona and Madrid that perhaps are not clear to those who have never visited. Not only that, there are significant differences in regions as well, with Barcelona being located right on the coast of the Mediterranean and Madrid is pretty much the dead center of Spain.

Oh I'm aware that the US had the Games three times between 1984 and 2002, 8 times in total, and that's why I'm against the Games to be held there AGAIN in 2024. There are 200 something countries in the world, and a WHOLE bunch of them could host. I've been to Spain, thanks, and I'm aware of all the cultural differences there. Just like there are differences within each country on this planet. Spain had their Olympics in 2002, let's wait a bit before they host again and give a chance to other countries, shall we!?

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Oh I'm aware that the US had the Games three times between 1984 and 2002, 8 times in total, and that's why I'm against the Games to be held there AGAIN in 2024. There are 200 something countries in the world, and a WHOLE bunch of them could host.

Not all "200" countries on this planet can host, though. If that's the case, then from this point forward, there shall be no more REPEAT hosts. That means no Tokyo 2020, nor the possibility of Paris 2024.

While I agree that relatively speaking, 2024 would still be too soon for another U.S. Olympics (& I think this was much of the reasoning why the USOC chose Boston instead of L.A. as their 2024 candidate), there still has to be outta all those other countries that could host, to present bids themselves. If Paris, Berlin & South Africa don't all bid, the IOC still has to go somewhere where the Games could successfully be staged.

I've been to Spain, thanks, and I'm aware of all the cultural differences there. Just like there are differences within each country on this planet. Spain had their Olympics in 2002, let's wait a bit before they host again and give a chance to other countries, shall we!?

Exactly. It's obvious that they're very partial to Spain since they're always bringing them up any chance that they can get in an Olympic context.

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Sorry Rob. But you're painting a very blurry picture here once again on this. When the geopolitics were favoring the Americas' (& NOT Tokyo nor even Asia, for that matter, bcuz of Beijing 2008 a year before the 2016 vote), then yeah, there were going to be some people, (especially the ones who don't follow these things as closely as we do here on Gamesbids) who are going to be surprised by Chicago's early elimination. So I don't see how that makes some supporters "grumpier" & not getting the "response" that you were looking for when that in itself is pretty sufficient.

Like I said the last time you brought this up, if London had been the first one tossed in the 2012 vote, the British media & 'many' London 2012 supporters I'm sure would've reacted the same way. And judging by how they all reacted to the England 2018 first round loss (including here on these forums as well), citing how the World Cup was "sold" to Russia, & by 'implication' then would've had no problem whatsoever in a country the stature of Russia or even Spain going out first instead of England, that wouldn't be too far off then.

Nope, no blurry picture, just saying what I saw. And I think you're almost certainly right that there would be bad reactions had London 2012 gone out first too. Just because some British people might've been sore losers doesn't make some Americans' reactions any better does it? Not sure what your argument is there.

Anyhow, the 2018/22 process is hardly comparable. HALF the 2010 ExCo have been fired, suspended, died or left quietly under clouds of corruption with nice FIFA pensions. I was never bothered about England finishing last; it was always the process that bothered me. The vote swapping, the suspension of ExCO members, Blatter "reminding" voters about the British media prior to the vote like some Mafia boss, and the subsequent unending stench of corruption from their Swiss HQ ever since. In fact, I've come to regard England going out first as something which reflects quite well on the English FA (even though they did try, in their small, pathetic was, to butter up voters too).

FWIW, in the 2016 race I don't think some Madrid supporters reacted brilliantly either. Maybe it's actually the case that the Japanese are the exception to the rule and in general, all losing bids will have sour supporters after defeat!

Edited by Rob.
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If Los Angeles and Atlanta can host 12 years apart, then Barcelona and Madrid hosting 20 years apart could have been a possibility. And just because they're both cities in the same country does not mean you're going to get the same exact Olympic experience. Have you ever been to Spain? I have, and I can tell you that there are significant cultural differences between Barcelona and Madrid that perhaps are not clear to those who have never visited. Not only that, there are significant differences in regions as well, with Barcelona being located right on the coast of the Mediterranean and Madrid is pretty much the dead center of Spain.

Atlanta hosted 12 years after Los Angeles because they were up against less than stellar competition. Otherwise they had no business winning that vote. So could Madrid have won 20 years after Barcelona? Maybe, but not in a field that included the 2 most notable cities in Europe. It's why they received a favorable evaluation, but that didn't translate to the vote. There's only so many Olympics that can be held in Europe, so for Madrid to think they could win a vote against a field of serious competition was not a smart move on their part.

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Nope, no blurry picture, just saying what I saw. And I think you're almost certainly right that there would be bad reactions had London 2012 gone out first too. Just because some British people might've been sore losers doesn't make some Americans' reactions any better does it? Not sure what your argument is there.

Precisely, Rob. But to be fair, initially you used the words "plenty & many". While here you are using "some". However, the overall aspect of the Chicago bid wasn't "arrogant", which is what Bernham here is trying to portray, hence which is my 'argument'.

First he posts this little CNN video clip to try & make his "point". Then after a few of us tell him that doesn't mean that the bid was 'arrogant' for the reasons specified, he then goes off on another route that he then watched "interviews" where people in Chicago were "arrogant". As if that itself proves anything.

The point is the bid itself wasn't arrogant. The USOC painstakingly guided Chicago & how to conduct itself thoughout the campaign. So please excuse me if I don't want to let him paint an incorrect picuture of the bid committee itself, along with the people behind it, & ALL of the supporters in general with the same "arrogant" brush.

FWIW, in the 2016 race I don't think some Madrid supporters reacted brilliantly either. Maybe it's actually the case that the Japanese are the exception to the rule and in general, all losing bids will have sour supporters after defeat!

Exactly! So bernham needs to stop acting as if that aspect is somehow unique to Chicsgo, when in fact, it obviously isn't..

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The same could be said for Munich 2018, too. Some German athletes denounced the IOC after PyeongChang's sound win. If you wanna talk about "sore losers", there are plenty of other cities that are way ahead of Chicago when it comes down to that aspect. IDK what you're grudge against the city, but perhaps it's something personal cuz you're just over embellishing at this point, since your video didn't "prove" anything.

Did you not read one of my last parts where I said Chicago is still America's best city for the Olympics? I have nothing against the city I'm just saying that America has had its fair share of arrogant bidders and sore loosers.

Hey, since I'm nice I'm going to include what I said about Chicago being America's best shot:

Now I do think Chicago is the best US city for any future bid and feel it was a damn shame that they did not domestically bid for 2024. Even in their 2016 bid they were an embodiment of the Agenda 2020 goals and I thought they accomplished them better than Boston did. The only weakness venue plan wise was the legacy of the main stadium and venues in Madison.

There were plenty of sore losers from Chicago, even on this forum. There were many who were somehow insulted that they went out first but who, by implication, would've had no problem whatsoever with a city the stature of Tokyo going out first (I asked this question many times from some of the grumpier Chicagoans and never got a response which made sense). Actually, I was a little surprised by the reactions of some (especially since I was a Chicago supporter throughout that race). Maybe it was the case in 2016 that the media had hyped up Chicago's chances so much that the shock was that much greater. The contrast with the collective shrug from NYC after their defeat was obvious!

The worst losers I remember were the Madrid 2012 lot. I think there was huge disappointment and some sour grapes from Paris, but some of the Madrid supporters really didn't take it well.

Exactly my point. The media hyped up Chicago like French media did to Paris and as a result it created even more of a shock. US media was saying throughout the race it would be between Chicago and Rio and hyped that Chicago was better than Rio and that Rio could never win and if they did they would fail.

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Oh let's discuss Paris 2024 opening ceremony, shall we!?

Just kidding...

As I'm sure Baron will be the first to remind you, it's never too soon to start planning your opening ceremony!

No kidding..... :)

Edited by Mainad
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There were plenty of sore losers from Chicago, even on this forum. There were many who were somehow insulted that they went out first but who, by implication, would've had no problem whatsoever with a city the stature of Tokyo going out first (I asked this question many times from some of the grumpier Chicagoans and never got a response which made sense). Actually, I was a little surprised by the reactions of some (especially since I was a Chicago supporter throughout that race). Maybe it was the case in 2016 that the media had hyped up Chicago's chances so much that the shock was that much greater. The contrast with the collective shrug from NYC after their defeat was obvious!

The worst losers I remember were the Madrid 2012 lot. I think there was huge disappointment and some sour grapes from Paris, but some of the Madrid supporters really didn't take it well.

While I agree with your point about Tokyo, I think Chicagoans had a real legit reason to be put off by Madrid progressing into the final round. It was senseless... A country that had basically hosted as recently as the US, and hoping to bring the e event back to Europe consecutively on the heels of London. Going out in the first round of voting was brutal. I emphasise with them, as I remember my own dumbfounded disbelief of Australia's 2022 outcome.

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Paris has officially announced is bid for the Universal Exhibition in 2025.

The Mayor of Paris said they won't bid for 2024 and 2025.

Does it mean Paris won't bid for SOG ? Maybe, but it's a strong evidence against SoG.

The news in French :

http://www.leparisien.fr/economie/video-expo-universelle-la-france-entame-son-operation-seduction-05-03-2015-4578727.php

http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2015/03/05/97001-20150305FILWWW00328-exposition-universelle-paris-officialise-sa-candidature.php

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That's not a good sign for SOG 2024...but it doesn't officially cut off a 2024 bid. Cities still have until September this year to officially bid or not.

It looks like the announcement of the Expo bid was also a way to show off the new Louis Vuitton Foundation bldg, more than anything else. If this was entirely official, it should've been done on the steps of the Hotel de Ville or some official city landmark.

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Some Parisian Politics said today that 2028 would be a better opportunity for Paris SoG.
I think the opposition against a bid for 2024 become more and more stronger every day.

But there are already some criticisms about the Paris plan for Universal Exhibition. It seems not realistic to win because it' doesn't respect some eligibility standard : Paris doesn't want to build venues like in the other Universal Exhibition :lol:

Definitively I think France shouldn't bid to anything with the economic problem, we don't want to spend money and you can't bid without money.
.

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Some Parisian Politics said today that 2028 would be a better opportunity for Paris SoG.

I think the opposition against a bid for 2024 become more and more stronger every day.

If Berlin (or even Rome) were to bid & win 2024, then that 'better opportunity' for 2028 for Paris is out the window. And also with the recent rumblings coming from South Africa that 2028 would be better for them instead of 2024 (bcuz of the 2022 CWG's), then Paris would directly have to deal with a strong & sentimental opponent.

The window for Europe seems to be open wider for 2024 than it does for 2028, hypothetically speaking at this point. So if Paris wants to snooze & lose, then I guess that's their prerogative.

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If Berlin (or even Rome) were to bid & win 2024, then that 'better opportunity' for 2028 for Paris is out the window. And also with the recent rumblings coming from South Africa that 2028 would be better for them instead of 2024 (bcuz of the 2022 CWG's), then Paris would directly have to deal with a strong & sentimental opponent.

The window for Europe seems to be open wider for 2024 than it does for 2028, hypothetically speaking at this point. So if Paris wants to snooze & lose, then I guess that's their prerogative.

I'm fine with them snoozing and losing by not putting in a bid. It gives the US a better shot. Rome could very well be its biggest competition if Berlin or Hamburg decide not to run either, and with Rome's economy what it is Boston is looking pretty sweet right now.

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