jawnbc Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 Man Munich should've fronted....they'd've won this in a walk. Krakow is toast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 Thanks to you guys for keeping us up to date on the way things are shaping up. Such a shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshi Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 Great shame. No way Oslo will stay on for long now, so it's Beijing surely. It's increasingly looking like the democratic world is finished with the Winter games after Sochi, but what can the IOC do to stop their games being electoral suicide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 It'll be a vicious cycle if they're not careful. Almaty or Beijing get 2022, then come the 2026 vote the anti-Olympic campaigners will say "see, the IOC only gives Games to dictatorships and places without democracy." Of course, few will bother to find out who actually bid for 2022 at that stage, they'll just see Sochi followed by Beijing and swallow that line whole. In much the same way that I get the impression voters have looked at Sochi's $50bn and said "no thanks" without considering Vancouver's model. The irony being, the IOC has probably never been more open to a Games in a European democracy than it is right now and will be for 2026! The choice of Sochi has created enormous problems for the IOC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Coast Lions Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 It'll be a vicious cycle if they're not careful. Almaty or Beijing get 2022, then come the 2026 vote the anti-Olympic campaigners will say "see, the IOC only gives Games to dictatorships and places without democracy." Of course, few will bother to find out who actually bid for 2022 at that stage, they'll just see Sochi followed by Beijing and swallow that line whole. In much the same way that I get the impression voters have looked at Sochi's $50bn and said "no thanks" without considering Vancouver's model. The irony being, the IOC has probably never been more open to a Games in a European democracy than it is right now and will be for 2026! The choice of Sochi has created enormous problems for the IOC. The way I can see it is that Almaty Kazakhstan will get the 2022 Winter Games then Reno Lake Tahoe USA for the 2026 Games then go to Harbin China for the 2030 Winter Games after there trys of of Beijing I have an feeling and it looks like that Beijing 2022 is only just an test bid for the Winter Games, Almaty has been working hard on this bid since 2004 really improving themselves for the 2022 Winter Games. If Europe is still unhappy by 2034 then they will move down under to New Zealand or Chile for the 2034 Games then if unhappy in 2038 go back to Canada, If Berlin Germany bids for the 2024 Games then they will go there to keep the interest for the USA for the 2026 Winter Games so they will be foolish to not award Berlin 2024 and Reno 2026 to keep Europe interest for the 2034 Winter Games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 I just knew the what's-her-name lady couldn't deliver the goods. DON'T say I didn't warn you guys.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanMUC Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 The way I can see it is that Almaty Kazakhstan will get the 2022 Winter Games then Reno Lake Tahoe USA for the 2026 Games then (...) The way I see it is that your vision is blurred. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stryker Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 Not only has Sochi created a problem, but Bach didn't help matters by stating a month or so ago to the media that the current builders should look to Sochi for inspiration. In PR terms that was a big mistake. The monstrosity of Sochi has scared off bidders that would normally be frontrunners from not even going through with a bid. Without trying to get off topic, there's been a lot of coverage recently about the more right wing parties picking up seats in the European Parliament. It'll be interesting to see if this more conservative group goes after future bids as being an excessive waste of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 (edited) Not only has Sochi created a problem, but Bach didn't help matters by stating a month or so ago to the media that the current builders should look to Sochi for inspiration. In PR terms that was a big mistake. The monstrosity of Sochi has scared off bidders that would normally be frontrunners from not even going through with a bid. Without trying to get off topic, there's been a lot of coverage recently about the more right wing parties picking up seats in the European Parliament. It'll be interesting to see if this more conservative group goes after future bids as being an excessive waste of money. Agree with your points re: Sochi. Not sure what the European Parliament has to do with anything though. It's domestic politics which determines whether Olympic bids go ahead (at both a mayoral and national level), and domestic politics often isn't at all reflective of what nations' electorates vote for in the Euro elections. As I said in the Paris 2024 thread, the UK seems to have swung hugely to the right if you look at the Euro election results, but we're likely to elect a Labour government next year. If London 2012 didn't happen and the UK was looking to launch an Olympic bid in the next few years, it'd likely be a left-of-centre Labour government who would have the decision on whether it goes ahead or not, not UKIP in the European Parliament. Edited May 26, 2014 by Rob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.bernham Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 Agree with your points re: Sochi. Not sure what the European Parliament has to do with anything though. It's domestic politics which determines whether Olympic bids go ahead (at both a mayoral and national level), and domestic politics often isn't at all reflective of what nations' electorates vote for in the Euro elections. As I said in the Paris 2024 thread, the UK seems to have swung hugely to the right if you look at the Euro election results, but we're likely to elect a Labour government next year. If London 2012 didn't happen and the UK was looking to launch an Olympic bid in the next few years, it'd likely be a left-of-centre Labour government who would have the decision on whether it goes ahead or not, not UKIP in the European Parliament. Sorry, I don't hold that much confidence in the left at all. I'm not expecting UKIP to take the nation, but if the Conservatives get backing from UKIP I just can not see Labour taking Parliament. UKIP is too popular and Cameron's promises are too enticing to pass up. I'm expecting the Conservatives to stay in... The way I can see it is that Almaty Kazakhstan will get the 2022 Winter Games then Reno Lake Tahoe USA for the 2026 Games then go to Harbin China for the 2030 Winter Games after there trys of of Beijing I have an feeling and it looks like that Beijing 2022 is only just an test bid for the Winter Games, Almaty has been working hard on this bid since 2004 really improving themselves for the 2022 Winter Games. If Europe is still unhappy by 2034 then they will move down under to New Zealand or Chile for the 2034 Games then if unhappy in 2038 go back to Canada, If Berlin Germany bids for the 2024 Games then they will go there to keep the interest for the USA for the 2026 Winter Games so they will be foolish to not award Berlin 2024 and Reno 2026 to keep Europe interest for the 2034 Winter Games. Child no, just no, just no. Reno will never host the damn Olympics so get it out of your mind quickly. I do think Almaty has a shot at winning, pretty sad it had to rely on the two best bids getting eliminated to have a shot. The Winter Games will never go to Chile or New Zealand. Berlin is not even bidding for 2024 so stop acting like they are. Where is Perth? I did not see it on the list of future host? I thought this crystal ball was accurate not misinformed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 Sorry, I don't hold that much confidence in the left at all. I'm not expecting UKIP to take the nation, but if the Conservatives get backing from UKIP I just can not see Labour taking Parliament. UKIP is too popular and Cameron's promises are too enticing to pass up. I'm expecting the Conservatives to stay in No offence, but this doesn't make much sense. Why would the Conservatives get backing from UKIP - they're vying for the same votes?! UKIP will be lucky to get a couple of MPs in Parliament, but they could disrupt the political map enough swing some constituencies towards Labour. In other words, they'll split the vote on the right in the same way the Lib Dems split the vote on the left. I'm not saying it will happen, but the most likely result at the next election is a Labour majority. Look at Lord Ashcroft's polling this week if you want more detail. Anyway, this is way off topic. My main point was Euro election results aren't necessarily indicitive of the direction a country will take domestically, and it's the domestic politics which determine what happens with Olympic bids. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 Reno will never host the damn Olympics so get it out of your mind quickly. what if Reno had bit in the current cycle with a viable project? hmmmmm?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 I do think Almaty has a shot at winning, pretty sad it had to rely on the two best bids getting eliminated to have a shot. This has been my view all along. If it took nearly every other credible bidder to drop off the radar for Almaty to have "a shot", then what is so special about it in the first place that some on here have been so gung-ho for them. Simply bcuz they never hosted before? Neither have Baku & Doha. So why don't we give them the Games, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 Who listens to 15 and 16-year olds here? Why do they think that their opinions or prognostications carry any weight?? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted May 26, 2014 Report Share Posted May 26, 2014 The way I can see it is that Almaty Kazakhstan will get the 2022 Winter Games then Reno Lake Tahoe USA for the 2026 Games then go to Harbin China for the 2030 Winter Games after there trys of of Beijing I have an feeling and it looks like that Beijing 2022 is only just an test bid for the Winter Games, Almaty has been working hard on this bid since 2004 really improving themselves for the 2022 Winter Games. If Europe is still unhappy by 2034 then they will move down under to New Zealand or Chile for the 2034 Games then if unhappy in 2038 go back to Canada, If Berlin Germany bids for the 2024 Games then they will go there to keep the interest for the USA for the 2026 Winter Games so they will be foolish to not award Berlin 2024 and Reno 2026 to keep Europe interest for the 2034 Winter Games. Ok, for starters the US has not declared any intention to bid for 2026. STOP with the Reno nonsense. Reno is so totally unappealing. Denver or Salt Lake, maybe. Not Reno. And who's to say the US won't grab 2024? It's too early to tell. what if Reno had bit in the current cycle with a viable project? hmmmmm?? As a host Reno would humiliate the United States. They cannot deliver a viable plan. The city is a non-starter. I just knew the what's-her-name lady couldn't deliver the goods. DON'T say I didn't warn you guys.... Still trying to defend yourself for mocking her weight? PATHETIC. And realistically, Krakow was over before she was ever appointed. There was no way ANYONE could've swung public opinion 25 points in just a few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 I just knew the what's-her-name lady couldn't deliver the goods. DON'T say I didn't warn you guys.... You also told us for weeks before that that Krakow was a sure-fire bet to win. Face it, you backed the wrong horse on this one, baron. Don't think you can hide behind the argument that suddenly you knew that the fortunes changed when they hired a bid leader you're not a fan of. Guess we'll never know what would have actually happened if she was there to push the bid to the IOC. what if Reno had bit in the current cycle with a viable project? hmmmmm?? That would require them to have a viable project in the first place. And the backing of the USOC. And they beat out the rest of the competition. Salt Lake maybe could have won this one. Possibly even Denver. Doubtful on Reno/Tahoe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Coast Lions Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 Let's remember Lake Tahoe area hosted the 1960 Winter Olympics and most people who went to it stayed in Reno, Reno Committee been working on a bid for over an decade, Reno could be the Barcelona of Winter Games to transform an city. Salt Lake City just hosted it and Denver will have to give it an miss until the IOC leadership was born after 1972 so Reno - Lake Tahoe will be the USA next best chance for the Winter Games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawnbc Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 Reno could totally bid for and win as host. The airport can handle it, there's tons of accommodation already and being back in the mountains would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 Reno could totally bid for and win as host. The airport can handle it, there's tons of accommodation already and being back in the mountains would be great. Just not true. The airport cannot handle it. The "accommodation" is just rooms in cheesy third-tier casinos. There are nowhere near enough venues and Reno has already said they don't plan to build hardly anything or invest in infrastructure. Yes, the mountains are nice, but that only takes care of the Alpine events. Everything else is a sad state of affairs. There's nothing winnable about Reno. And as for GCL comparing it to Squaw Valley, my dad was there in 1960. Most people stayed in California, especially Sacramento, and drove in for the day. Most ice events were contested outdoors. It had a small village festival feel to it. So please don't suggest Squaw Valley has any bearing at all on Reno's ability to stage 21st century Olympics, because it doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 Let's remember Lake Tahoe area hosted the 1960 Winter Olympics and most people who went to it stayed in Reno, Reno Committee been working on a bid for over an decade, Reno could be the Barcelona of Winter Games to transform an city. Salt Lake City just hosted it and Denver will have to give it an miss until the IOC leadership was born after 1972 so Reno - Lake Tahoe will be the USA next best chance for the Winter Games. Good grief Charlie Brown, do you have any idea how ridiculous that all sounds? I wasn't aware that Reno suffered decades of political oppression and would use an Olympics to help transition out of that period. Good for the Reno committee that they've been working on it for a long time. So has Istanbul. How's that worked out for them? Reno is what it is.. they're the "The Biggest Little City in the World." It's a casino town that sits in the shadows of it's big brother Las Vegas. Yes, it acts as a gateway to the ski areas in Tahoe, a region that was most certainly transformed by the 1960 Olympics and that area owes its legacy to that event. But an Olympics isn't going to transform Reno into a Winter sports mecca. It's a minor league town and it's unlikely they'd be able to grow out of that. And the IOC dosen't "have to give" Denver a miss because of 1972. If Denver was dropped into this 2022 race, they'd merit a nice long look. Reno-Tahoe I'm not so sure about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanMUC Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 Squaw Valley 2030 - time to set up a thread about that one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 Just not true. The airport cannot handle it. The "accommodation" is just rooms in cheesy third-tier casinos. There are nowhere near enough venues and Reno has already said they don't plan to build hardly anything or invest in infrastructure. Yes, the mountains are nice, but that only takes care of the Alpine events. Everything else is a sad state of affairs. There's nothing winnable about Reno. Reno ain't going to host... no way the politics of both California and Nevada come together. But do be fair, Reno does has a stadium, which puts it ahead of many similar-size options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 Reno ain't going to host... no way the politics of both California and Nevada come together. But do be fair, Reno does has a stadium, which puts it ahead of many similar-size options. Not really. You only need a stadium for the OC and CC. And Reno is lacking quality indoor arenas for the ice events, so it's kind of a moot point. Neither Denver nor SLC would have stadium problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekekelso Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 Not really. You only need a stadium for the OC and CC. And Reno is lacking quality indoor arenas for the ice events, so it's kind of a moot point. Neither Denver nor SLC would have stadium problems. The US is lucky in that we have lots of college football stadiums in small towns (and big cites too obviously), But the typical mountian town in the world doesn't have one and sure doesn't need one. One of the *big* white elephants many potential WOG hosts faces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted May 28, 2014 Report Share Posted May 28, 2014 You also told us for weeks before that that Krakow was a sure-fire bet to win. Face it, you backed the wrong horse on this one, baron. Don't think you can hide behind the argument that suddenly you knew that the fortunes changed when they hired a bid leader you're not a fan of. Guess we'll never know what would have actually happened if she was there to push the bid to the IOC. Sorry, I don't quite see it that way. Yeah, I backed Krakow because I thought it had a good chance. Now, if their citizenry chose otherwise, that's their problem -- not mine. And I don't regret backing it. So sue me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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