U.S. Winter Bid for 2022 or 2026

[baron-pierreIV]

Wonderful city. If it wasn't for the dropping-out baggage that they may have (it has yet to be proven by a flat-out, harsh NO back from the IOC),

And do u really think they will turn down the whatever $.5 million deposit for over a year + all the interest it can add to its coffers, at the outset--just to put US supporters' mind at rest? And why would they tell one city in advance and NOT the others?

How old r u? Get real, please.

^^ I agree, give them another chance, everyone deserves 2nd chances don't they (well most do)?

Y should they get an extra 2nd chance and deny the others a FIRST chance? Why does Denver deserve it more?

Why are you rooting for a city that may really not like it? It's because you are PROJECTING your choices...NOT because of the reality of the situation.

If anything, Denver put itself (and the USOC) in the hole they are in now. Let them sleep in the bed they made.

[stir.ts]

Sounds like I spend more time in Denver than most here, many locals still mock the Olympics and most don't ever want it in their pristine back yard. They are a bit standoffish and don't LOVE outsiders who think they are bigger and better than the rockies.

Denver has no need for the Olympics, go somewhere that need the development or to the fabulous European Alps, I mean they really belongs there in every way. We're just too rebelious.

[747]

Give it a frikin' break USA. Let the IOC to go fnck theselves.

[Athensfan]

So just based on these primary considerations, I think a Reno-Tahoe bid is the most viable at the present time.

I totally agree with that, I just don't think it's saying very much. It's a pretty weak field. With regard to nykfan's question, "why not let Reno bid?" I'm not saying they can't/shouldn't bid. I question whether the USOC should support the bid.

Incidentally, Baron, when you wrote something to the effect of, "if you don't like it, don't go" -- that's fine to say to GB flunky's, but the IOC will take the same approach. Will they like it? Will they go?

[Athensfan]

The thing that surprises me the most in this thread is that there are so many people who are unwilling to just be patient. Is it really that hard to wait and put forward a top-drawer American bid when the right window of opportunity finally comes along? It WILL happen. (Though poor Baron, like JAS, may not live to see it. ) We just haven't had that window yet. NYC was too soon after Atlanta and counting on 9/11 for sympathy was not the wisest move. Rio just blocked the window for 2016. In neither case did the IOC say, "we never want to see Chicago or New York again." They just demonstrated a commitment to truly global Games.

I just don't see the point in trying to ram Reno through. Why knock yourself out to get something passable in the short-term when there's a strong possibility that you can wait a cycle or two and get something superb?

[Citizen-Seth]

The thing that surprises me the most in this thread is that there are so many people who are unwilling to just be patient. Is it really that hard to wait and put forward a top-drawer American bid when the right window of opportunity finally comes along? It WILL happen. (Though poor Baron, like JAS, may not live to see it. ) We just haven't had that window yet. NYC was too soon after Atlanta and counting on 9/11 for sympathy was not the wisest move. Rio just blocked the window for 2016. In neither case did the IOC say, "we never want to see Chicago or New York again." They just demonstrated a commitment to truly global Games.

I just don't see the point in trying to ram Reno through. Why knock yourself out to get something passable in the short-term when there's a strong possibility that you can wait a cycle or two and get something superb?

Absolutely agree! There's no sense in rushing a winter bid when, in just a few cycles, we'll have a legit shot at getting a summer games. Lets just hold off and go for bids in 2024 and 2028. And beside, who would really want to spend a holiday in Reno?

[NY20??]

And do u really think they will turn down the whatever $.5 million deposit for over a year + all the interest it can add to its coffers, at the outset--just to put US supporters' mind at rest? And why would they tell one city in advance and NOT the others?

What are you on about?

I'm saying that I've seen little to suggest that the IOC will harshly reject Denver if they were to ever bid again as people seemed to be convinced it would be. Really, how can you be so sure? Bidding evolves so much ifs, ands, or buts, that it seems bizarre to me to suggest that Denver would have enough of a small chance to not be worth if they're ever interested. I mean, these races will be decided in five years at the very least. Who knows what the dynamics, the political climate and will of everyone involved, and the field of cities will be. These races won't be decided tomorrow nor the day after that. So patience.

[Soaring]

...and Baron, when you say that you won't be alive to see another Olympics in the U.S. if we wait for a summer games, you sound as if you are projecting a terminal illness or something. What is six years (2022 to 2028)? I am definitely in the group that favors a wait and see approach. I don't think the U.S. should bid for any winter games and should not bid for 2024, unless a European city wins 2020. If Cape Town or Durban seem to be strong contenders for 2024, I would actually wait until 2028. Sure, there will be a tough Asian competitor and maybe even Toronto, but it just seems safer to me.

I would love to see Anchorage host a Winter Games sometime, but I would rather have a summer games before then. Again, Reno seems doable, but there has to be something better we can bring to the table. I thought the IOC was going for larger cities anyway? Reno is slightly larger than a couple of Chicago suburbs.

Anyway, I hope PC wins 2018, or another Asian city wins 2022. Just so that it would continue the Asian summer/winter games balance.

What is this about Sochi being a horrible city? I saw some pictures, and it looks fine. It doesn't look tacky at least...

Although, I am sure it is not as beautiful as the renders provided by the bid...

When I was doing a search on some Reno photos, I came across this one. It was linked to an article about the economy of Nevada being in dyer straights from the collapse of the real estate market. Nevada was the epicenter of the real estate bubble.

But there were some better ones of Reno...

[NY20??]

Soaring, that bid render of Sochi is of Federation Island, so that's not built yet.

[OneTimeOnly]

..

But there were some better ones of Reno...

Yeah, from a distance...

[OneTimeOnly]

What part of Winter Olympics do you not understand?

Weak comeback you know what I meant by that. Tulsa for a Summer Games, duh!

[nykfan845]

No, what I meant was that it's a Winter Olympic Games, which means much smaller, lesser known cities can host.

The expense and infrastructure needed for hosting a WOG pales in comparison to that for SOG, as we all know.

[OneTimeOnly]

No, what I meant was that it's a Winter Olympic Games, which means much smaller, lesser known cities can host.

The expense and infrastructure needed for hosting a WOG pales in comparison to that for SOG, as we all know.

Riiiiiight.

[Lord David]

Didn't Vancouver end up spending like 6 billion? Out of a supposed 2 billion max?

And we all know Sochi is spending upwards of 14 billion.

The Winter Olympic Games may be cheaper to stage then the Summer Olympics, but that only depends where you go (i.e a host with most of the infrastructure in place), or a host that wants to spend all out.

[FYI]

I'm saying that I've seen little to suggest that the IOC will harshly reject Denver if they were to ever bid again as people seemed to be convinced it would be. Really, how can you be so sure? Bidding evolves so much ifs, ands, or buts, that it seems bizarre to me to suggest that Denver would have enough of a small chance to not be worth if they're ever interested. I mean, these races will be decided in five years at the very least. Who knows what the dynamics, the political climate and will of everyone involved, and the field of cities will be. These races won't be decided tomorrow nor the day after that. So patience.

Why would the IOC suggest anything about Denver? I'm sure it's not something that they lose sleep over. Especially when there are a whole slew of OTHER cities out there that would really be grateful & literally bow to the IOC just for having a chance at the honor of hosting.

Of course these bid races have all the various varibles involved, but that's usually with biddin cities that have never given the Games BACK & throwing them away like ingrates. Perhaps it MAY be a bit of a stretch, but it would also be just as 'bizarre' to totally dismiss Denver's baggage. Especially with an elite & fastidious sporting organization, like the IOC, that likes & expects to be treated like royalty instead of being humiliated & being forced to go into a frenzy of trying to find an emergency back-up host at the last minute like Denver made them do.

[FYI]

The thing that surprises me the most in this thread is that there are so many people who are unwilling to just be patient. Is it really that hard to wait and put forward a top-drawer American bid when the right window of opportunity finally comes along? It WILL happen. In neither case did the IOC say, "we never want to see Chicago or New York again." They just demonstrated a commitment to truly global Games.

The IOC didn't say so, but the current USOC head DID. They obviously have their reservations & at least have more inside knowledge than any of us here.

And yet again, what "top-drawer" American bid is gonna come along to bat for 2024 or 2028? Cause it ain't gonna be Chicago nor New York (cause they certainly view the IOC's message totally different than you do). Maybe San Francisco, & that's a big maybe. So that really leaves Los Angeles, cause I'm sure that they'll be biting at the bit for another chance. And I believe that in order for it to be L.A. for a 3rd time, their bid would truelly have to be compelling. Other than that, there's nobody else, other than those pesky 2nd & 3rd tier common towns.

[FYI]

Where else can you find palm trees and snow capped mountains in a single picture frame?

BTW, The distance from Reno to Tahoe is about half that of LA (downtown) to Big Bear Lake, but LA to Big Bear is about the same distance as Vancouver to Whistler so one could make an argument there.

ummm, Sochi.

But Vancouver to Whistler doesn't have the massive urban sprawl with major traffic congestion that L.A. does, & therefore make it far more time consuming to get to Big Bear.

Didn't Vancouver end up spending like 6 billion? Out of a supposed 2 billion max?

And we all know Sochi is spending upwards of 14 billion.

The Winter Olympic Games may be cheaper to stage then the Summer Olympics, but that only depends where you go (i.e a host with most of the infrastructure in place), or a host that wants to spend all out.

That's still chump-change compared to the massive spending of the Summer Olympics. It's all relative.

[Sir Rols]

Hmmmm. A not exactly unbiased view from the Colorado Independent:

Denver 2022 Winter Games: An insider’s guide to the Olympic debacle

By David O. Williams

Canada, which will eventually spend more than $6 billion for the recent Vancouver Winter Olympic Games, was the victim of a global golden fleece job.

Besides the cost to taxpayers nationwide (nearly $430 million for each of a record 14 gold medals), the Canadians came away with very little to show for their massive investment at the worst possible of economic times. And Russia, formerly flush with oil funds, is headed down an even more disastrous road for Sochi in 2014.

Russia will reportedly outspend the Canadians this year alone, pumping $7.6 billion into infrastructure for the next Winter Games in 2010 and more than $33 billion overall by 2014. Based on the weak Russian performance in Vancouver (just three golds), that would come to $11 billion per gold medal, a steep price to pay for the pride and patriotic passion of the Russian people in 2014, although one assumes much of that money will be spread liberally among corrupt politicians and members of the Russian mafia.

In fact, most of it should be spent on security, given Sochi’s proximity to Georgia, which Russia recently invaded, and Chechnya, which has been the scene of vicious separatist fighting for nearly two decades and the source of countless gruesome terrorist attacks.

The Canadians spent more than $1 billion on security, which mostly seemed to pay for every cop in Canada to come sit by the side of the Sea to Sky Highway between Vancouver and Whistler and enforce a ridiculous ban on private vehicles, pulling over occasional speeders and letting them off in exchange for souvenir Olympic pins.

In Sestriere, Italy, in 2006, when I worked for the Olympic News Service at the alpine skiing venues, every time I went to work I passed through airport-style “mag-and-bag” screening (a requirement of all spectators as well).

In Whistler, every 10th person was screened. I had my backpack scanned exactly three times in more than a month, meaning I could have brought virtually any form of contraband into the venue.

I realize it’s extremely difficult to prevent people like Eric Rudolph, the 1996 Atlanta Centennial Olympic Park terrorist, from leaving a backpack full of explosives somewhere, but careful screening of spectators and employees entering a venue can at least minimize risk to athletes and fans.

How, you may ask, does any of this impact Coloradans, and why would a regular reporter for the Colorado Independent covering energy and environmental news particularly care?

By virtue of living in Vail and covering a couple of World Cup ski races a year for the last 15 years (mostly for the now-defunct Rocky Mountain News), I am a so-called “expert” on alpine ski racing and therefore have earned a front-row seat to the last two winter Olympic Games, interviewing athletes and providing stats, bios and other research to journalists. I worked as an Olympic News Service writer in 2006 for the Torino Organizing Committee (TOROC) and this year for the Vancouver Organizing Committee (VANOC).

It’s an interesting gig that comes with a Games-time gag order but also provides an unfiltered look at the dark underbelly of the Olympic movement – the massive bureaucracy, the incredible waste, and the unrelenting politics that lead to asinine decisions such as locating the freestyle events in a mud-hole like Cypress Mountain.

I never imagined myself singing the praises of Italian efficiency – because the 2006 Winter Games were an organizational disaster that somehow implausibly came together at the last minute – but the Italians made the Canadians look like rank amateurs.

By examining some of these issues in a multi-part, first-person series of essays for the Colorado Independent, I am virtually guaranteeing I won’t be invited back. But given my feeling about how the 2014 Winter Olympic Games in Sochi will unfold, it’s safe to say I’d prefer a sharp stick in the eye to working for the Russians and covering what I think will be a disaster by the Black Sea.

And forget about London in 2012. The Atlanta Games soured me completely on the Summer Olympics, not to mention that already expensive London will witness Olympic markup sticker shock that will put all past Games to shame. Just as a point of reference, consider that I paid 20 euros for a beer in Italy in 2006.

Denver missed its chance to host the 2018 Winter Olympics when the United States Olympic Committee instead focused (quite unsuccessfully) on a Chicago 2016 Summer Olympics bid. Just three cities are in the running for 2018 – Annecy, France; Munich, Germany; and Pyeongchang, South Korea – leaving Denver to mull over a 2022 bid.

So the point of this exercise, really, is to help elevate the debate about whether Denver should submit a bid for the 2022 Winter Olympics – something I’ve seen a great deal of hue and cry for since Vancouver. If Colorado is going to bid for the Games, I’d like to explore what form that bid should take.

Denver has the distinction (some would say dubious) of being the only city in the modern Olympic era to reject the Games once awarded by the International Olympic Committee (IOC). Then state lawmaker Dick Lamm made his political career by arguing the Olympics would lead to unbridled development and rampant taxes. He forced a referendum in which Colorado voters stunningly gave back the Olympics award. Lamm later became governor.

At the time I was an 11-year-old Air Force brat learning to ski in Bavaria when nearby Innsbruck, Austria – which had just hosted the Games in 1964 – was awarded the 1976 Denver Winter Olympics.

If you buy that the IOC fossils will forgive and forget by 2022, I still maintain they need us more than we need them. “Duty-to-die Dick,” as Lamm infamously became known (for other reasons), nailed some aspects of the Games – although development came to Colorado anyway – and made a larger point that can’t be ignored 34 years later.

The massive taxpayer expense of hosting the Winter Olympics means any host nation, state or city should come away with a package of infrastructure goodies so enticing that it makes hosting the Games a truly worthwhile endeavor with long-term benefits.

Colorado Independent

[FYI]

WTF was that guy on??

First, he talks about what a "disaster" Turin was, & how EXPENSIVE & inefficient Vancouver was & pretty much how Sochi is going to be a big nightmare. And then, very casually, he goes on to say if Denver should bid, cause the "IOC needs them moreso than Colorado needs the Games, blah, blah, blah". Okay, whatever. That's the way to sweet talk the IOC from the ONLY city to ever give the Games back.

[Sir Rols]

WTF was that guy on??

First, he talks about what a "disaster" Turin was, & how EXPENSIVE & inefficient Vancouver was & pretty much how Sochi is going to be a big nightmare. And then, very casually, he goes on to say if Denver should bid, cause the "IOC needs them moreso than Colorado needs the Games, blah, blah, blah". Okay, whatever. That's the way to sweet talk the IOC from the ONLY city to ever give the Games back.

LOL. Yeah. It seemed to me he actually had more to vent than he actually had to say. Far more sense has been written by the various contending opinion holders in this thread than he had to deliver in his rant.;

[NY20??]

Why Perhaps it MAY be a bit of a stretch, but it would also be just as 'bizarre' to totally dismiss Denver's baggage.

I'm not dismissing 1976, but I'm not at all convinced it will be such an instant deal-breaker years from now if Denver is ever interested again. I'll hold out before making definite assertions about races years from now.

And yet again, what "top-drawer" American bid is gonna come along to bat for 2024 or 2028? Cause it ain't gonna be Chicago nor New York (cause they certainly view the IOC's message totally different than you do).

No one in New York views the 2012 loss as a slap in the face if that's what your suggesting. The 2012 loss certainly doesn’t sting New York as much as the 2016 stings Chicago. If anything the city's own made stadium debacle left the bitter taste that may hurt public support and civic will for a future bid, not the IOC's decision.

[baron-pierreIV]

No one in New York views the 2012 loss as a slap in the face if that's what your suggesting. The 2012 loss certainly doesn’t sting New York as much as the 2016 stings Chicago. If anything the city's own made stadium debacle left the bitter taste that may hurt public support and civic will for a future bid, not the IOC's decision.

That's heartening to hear. I really hope someday, maybe for 2028 at the earliest, NYC should want to try again. Maybe the remade Shea can once again be remade into an Olympic stadium.

[Rob2012]

Me too. If London didn't win I was hoping for NYC even though it looked increasingly unlikely as the race went on.

[Soaring]

I think NYC would put forward a bid before Chicago. I actually don't think NYC would benefit too much, but it would be amazing to see them host. But I will still look ask "what if" about Chicago.

[Athensfan]

The IOC didn't say so, but the current USOC head DID. They obviously have their reservations & at least have more inside knowledge than any of us here.

When did Blackmun say that they had no interest in a Chicago or NYC Games ever? That's news to me. So far, Blackmun seems to be treading very carefully, avoiding extreme statements and working hard at building bridges. I can't imagine him saying that Chicago and New York are non-starters forever and ever, amen.

Citizen Seth -- so glad we agree!! Right on!

Soaring -- I still think Chicago would be a magnificent host. Personally, I'd prefer a Chicago Games over a New York Games (having lived in both cities). Still, I think you're right that a New York bid may be more probable than another Chicago bid. We'll see. Time can work wonders and there's a lot of time before a 2024 or 2028 bid might be considered.