Brisbane 2032 Venues/Stadiums Thread

[ulu]

Sounds like they want stadiums to be upgraded rather than using suitable stadiums down south.

[Sir Rols]

This is actually quite bizarre.

So, they are saying they want bigger ground capacity at places like Townsville, Cairns and the Sunshine Coast for 2032 with an eye  to using them in a 2034 WC bid.

Assuming they’re just thinking of group stage venues, FIFA mandates a minimum capacity of 40,000. How is that considered even remotely viable for regional stadiums? Townsville rarely draws more than 20,000 for the Cowboys NRL home games, and they’d probably already be the best case of those. I can’t see how any could ongoingly sustain 40,000 seat stadiums in the long term.

And the other side of the coin is, is Football Australia really thinking of including them in a World Cup hosting plan? Do they really think regional and Far North Queensland is equipped the infrastructure requirements of the travelling fan bases of whatever of the 48 teams get assigned to them? I really have strong doubts on the feasibility.

Aside from the fact I don’t fancy our chances in a 234 bid anyway, it sounds like FA are really thinking of doing it on our own. That’s just plain fanciful at best. 

[Sir Rols]

Oh dear - some juicy recommendations from the Senate Inquiry interim report:

The committee agrees that major development decisions—such as the decision to build a Whitewater Centre at Redland—should be subject to a robust business case, and that business case should be publicly available. The history of whitewater facilities built for previous Games suggests there is a high likelihood that the facility could become a drain on the community and public funds in the future. This evidence would suggest that Australia does not need, and cannot sustain, two whitewater facilities. Proponents of the project should be willing and able to provide detailed evidence of the benefits to the community and residents of the state. Failure to do so inevitably results in doubt and division. 

The Queensland Government should be working with the New South Wales Government to fully explore the possibility of holding the events at the Penrith Whitewater Centre. It is unclear if this option has been fully investigated. The committee would like to see a detailed analysis of the feasibility of using the existing Penrith facilities for the Games, instead of building a new facility at Redland. 

The committee would also like to see greater transparency around the conditions under which the Birkdale lands were sold to the Redland City Council. If there was an agreement that the environment be protected as a condition of the sale, this must be made public and must be honoured.

[AustralianFan]

5 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

Oh dear - some juicy recommendations from the Senate Inquiry interim report:

The committee agrees that major development decisions—such as the decision to build a Whitewater Centre at Redland—should be subject to a robust business case, and that business case should be publicly available. The history of whitewater facilities built for previous Games suggests there is a high likelihood that the facility could become a drain on the community and public funds in the future. This evidence would suggest that Australia does not need, and cannot sustain, two whitewater facilities. Proponents of the project should be willing and able to provide detailed evidence of the benefits to the community and residents of the state. Failure to do so inevitably results in doubt and division. 

The Queensland Government should be working with the New South Wales Government to fully explore the possibility of holding the events at the Penrith Whitewater Centre. It is unclear if this option has been fully investigated. The committee would like to see a detailed analysis of the feasibility of using the existing Penrith facilities for the Games, instead of building a new facility at Redland. 

The committee would also like to see greater transparency around the conditions under which the Birkdale lands were sold to the Redland City Council. If there was an agreement that the environment be protected as a condition of the sale, this must be made public and must be honoured.

This senate inquiry was concocted and put together by the opposition and minority parties.  But these minority politicians are not in government so this politcal witch-hunt is not going anywhere.  

With just under 9 years to go until Brisbane 2032, the issue of the Redlands Whitewater Centre vs Penrith Regatta Centre will be resolved independently and separately from this nonsense senate inquiry.

If the Queensland Government is not re-elected in the coming state election, then there may be a change of thinking toward Penrith International Regatta Centre in Sydney.

But right now, there is no sign yet of a change in venue plans for canoe slalom events at Brisbane 2032.

 

[Sir Rols]

Even more scathing is the Green’s dissenting report:

Whitewater Centre at Redlands

1.17Evidence from the inquiry has indicated that there is no need to build a new whitewater rafting facility in the Redlands. There is insufficient justification for a new facility, considering the existence of a functional facility in Penrith. 

1.18The technical report from the International Olympic Committee set out that instead of the Redlands Whitewater Centre, the Brisbane Olympic Committee should consider using the existing legacy facilities in New South Wales. This aligns with the new norm strategy for Olympics, that aims to reduce wasted infrastructure. 

1.19The track record of the last six Olympic whitewater stadiums indicates the Olympic legacy for the Redlands will be a long-term financial burden. Three stadiums are abandoned, effectively concrete swamps, and three are running in the red. The newly upgraded Olympic whitewater stadium in Penrith, New South Wales will host the Canoe Slalom World Championships in 2025.

1.20For these reasons the decision to build a new Whitewater Centre at Redlands seems to have been taken without justification and pursued doggedly despite community opposition to the project. This clearly fails to align with the new norm requirements for an Olympic Games. 

 

 

Senator Penny Allman-Payne

[Sir Rols]

AF can scream witch hunt all he wants (the committee included ALP members, including the deputy chair)  - about time these concerns have been scrutinised openly and are out in the public sphere and will form a part of anything “resolved independently”.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Sir Rols

[Victorian]

This is the Queensland Games not NSW Games. They had their turn in 2000

[Sir Rols]

37 minutes ago, Victorian said:

This is the Queensland Games not NSW Games. They had their turn in 2000

Sydney 2000 wants its football games from Melbourne and Brisbane back.

This is as much Australia’s Games as Queensland’s, especially with the Australian taxpayer, via the Federal Government, footing such a large slice of the bill. It stands to reason Sydneysiders, Melburnians et al also have a stake in them and want to see their tax dollars spent responsibly.

Redlands Whitewater NEVER made sense. It’s expensive, unnecessary, a drain on money and totally out of whack with “New Norm” aspirations. The IOC itself questioned its “need” and suggested Penrith. It’s about time it’s been outed in the public sphere. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by Sir Rols

[FYI]

1 hour ago, Sir Rols said:

AF can scream witch hunt all he wants

Yeah, & who else does that sound like who likes to scream witch hunt a lot these days! 

[Sir Rols]

3 hours ago, AustralianFan said:

This senate inquiry was concocted and put together by the opposition and minority parties.  But these minority politicians are not in government so this politcal witch-hunt is not going anywhere.  

With just under 9 years to go until Brisbane 2032, the issue of the Redlands Whitewater Centre vs Penrith Regatta Centre will be resolved independently and separately from this nonsense senate inquiry.

If the Queensland Government is not re-elected in the coming state election, then there may be a change of thinking toward Penrith International Regatta Centre in Sydney.

But right now, there is no sign yet of a change in venue plans for canoe slalom events at Brisbane 2032.

 

The thing is, the committee signed off on it, including the two Labor members. The only dissenting view was the Greens, who were even more unequivocal.

[Rob2012]

12 hours ago, AustralianFan said:

This senate inquiry was concocted and put together by the opposition and minority parties.  But these minority politicians are not in government so this politcal witch-hunt is not going anywhere.  

Alright Donald, calm down.

[Rob2012]

9 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

The thing is, the committee signed off on it, including the two Labor members. The only dissenting view was the Greens, who were even more unequivocal.

What are the Greens like in Australia?

I know Green parties are broadly "Green" but there are different shades. In Germany they're a fair way to the right of our Green Party, in America they're mostly loons as far as I can work out, over here they're decent enough but have a strong NIMBY element about them which I see as counterproductive (especially when it comes to high speed rail).

I guess what I'm asking is, are your Greens generally obstructive when it comes to any infrastructure projects. In what context should we see their opposition to Games developments?

Edited September 15, 2023 by Rob2012

[Sir Rols]

10 hours ago, Rob2012 said:

What are the Greens like in Australia?

I know Green parties are broadly "Green" but there are different shades. In Germany they're a fair way to the right of our Green Party, in America they're mostly loons as far as I can work out, over here they're decent enough but have a strong NIMBY element about them which I see as counterproductive (especially when it comes to high speed rail).

I guess what I'm asking is, are your Greens generally obstructive when it comes to any infrastructure projects. In what context should we see their opposition to Games developments?

It’s a bit difficult to contextualise it - I’m not familiar with UK Greens for example, so can’t slot them to the left or right of them.

In general though, still very socially progressive and economically left, but inching more pragmatic as they wield more support, influence and power. They used to be “ideologically pure” and in that condition scuppered early attempts at climate change legislation, for example, because they didn’t perceive them as tough enough (a tragedy that ushered in a decade and more of climate wars in our politics which ultimately toppled leaders on both sides of the divide). Today, they are tough negotiators, but more likely/able to accept compromise. This of course adds internal tensions within them between original hardliners and those who wish them to have more effective power.

They’ve grown in support, and now are he biggest bloc holding the balance of power in the Senate, and hold a number of (mainly inner city) seats in the House of Representatives. Labor won the last election election with a majority of one in the house, so they were just the one seat away from holding the balance in Government and becoming a coalition partner. Similar at the State level, particularly in Victoria, NSW and Queensland.

I myself vote mainly Green, primarily as a way use my vote more effectively to force Labor to be more true to its supposed progressive ideals. I would be comfortable to see them as a coalition partner in a centre left government.,   

[Victorian]

https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/mackay/sport/great-barrier-reef-arena-mackay-airport-enter-partnership-as-olympic-hope-beckons/news-story/4d1775d068aac25164f2e21b0797f10b

[TorchbearerSydney]

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/nov/24/brisbanes-gabba-oval-demolished-ashes-2025-east-bank-precinct

 

Latest update on Brisbane's teeny weeny Olympic Stadium jammed above 2 roads, with no warm up track.

 

[AustralianFan]

51 minutes ago, TorchbearerSydney said:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/nov/24/brisbanes-gabba-oval-demolished-ashes-2025-east-bank-precinct

 

Latest update on Brisbane's teeny weeny Olympic Stadium jammed above 2 roads, with no warm up track.

 

There will be a  warm-up track will at nearby Raymond Park.

Here is the basic render of the  Gabba rebuild:

Brisbane Times - 24 Nov 2023

 

Athletes Warm-up Area - Raymond Park:

Brisbane Times - 31 July 2023

[AustralianFan]

Here are the 4 options for the Gabba rebuild and the assessment of those options::

Four Options for Gabba Rebuild

Credit: Gabba Stadium Redevelopment - Project Validation Report Summary

[AustralianFan]

59 minutes ago, AustralianFan said:

Athletes Warm-up Area - Raymond Park:

Sorry, I missed this bit below in the report about

Raymond Park athletes warm-up track and facilities:

Credit: Gabba Stadium Redevelopment - Project Validation Report Summary

[AustralianFan]

Rebuilt Gabba Features

Credit: Gabba Stadium Redevelopment - Project Validation Report Summary

[TorchbearerSydney]

Q: There will be a  warm-up track will at nearby Raymond Park.

 

That's not a GABBA warm up track, that's a temporarily, repurposed park a few blocks down the street....

Look at Sydney for example, two warm up tracks attached to the main stadium by tunnels.

 

 

[AustralianFan]

14 hours ago, TorchbearerSydney said:

Q: There will be a  warm-up track will at nearby Raymond Park.

 

That's not a GABBA warm up track, that's a temporarily, repurposed park a few blocks down the street....

Look at Sydney for example, two warm up tracks attached to the main stadium by tunnels.

Raymond Park will become the temporary athletes warm-up area for the Track and Field competitions at the 2032 Brisbane Olympic and Paralympic Games.

Sydney was elected Host City in 1993 for the 2000 Games under the old bidding Host City in 2021  for the 2032 Games under the new norm host city selection system.

In the New Norm era, Raymond Park is perfectly suitable as a temporary athletics warm-up venue.  It will be dismantled after the Games.

Previous posts in this thread have already covered that athletes will be swiftly transferred along sceure routes to and from the temporary athletes warm-up area at Raymond Park and the rebuilt Gabba Olympic Stasium.

[TorchbearerSydney]

Its suitable, but far from ideal.  

How is spending 2.7billion on a new 50K stadium part of the 'new norm'? 

[AustralianFan]

On 11/26/2023 at 7:20 AM, TorchbearerSydney said:

Its suitable, but far from ideal.  

How is spending 2.7billion on a new 50K stadium part of the 'new norm'? 

The temporary Warm-up track at Raymond Park is certainly very suitable for the two week one-off events being Olympic/Paralympics, then returned to community use.  It is in line with New Norm as it is a temporary venue.

The rebuild of the unreliable Gabba is in line with New Norm because it’s being done for the legacy tenants AFL and Cricket, not the Olympics, with an increased stadium capacity of 50,000.

The rebuild of the ageing Gabba is not being done for the Olympics.  It’s very different to what happened when the mega 110,000 capacity Stadium Australia was built specifically for the 2000 Olympics and from which AFL and NRL benefited.

Then after the short 2000 Olympics/Paralympics events, there was an expensive downsizing of the massive Stadium Australia after the Games which removed around 30,000 seats.     I mean I loved Sydney 2000, was right there all the way through it but to then see that new stadium broken down from 110,000 to 83,500 after tge short period of the Olympics was so wasteful.

For Brisbane,  it’s a completely different story - the 2032 Olympics and Paralympics will simply benefit from the 50,000 capacity Gabba Stadium rebuild because it’s being done for the legacy tenants of AFL and Cricket from the get-go.

[AustralianFan]

The Gabba thread has more on this.

[Sir Rols]

48 minutes ago, AustralianFan said:

Stadium Australia was built specifically for the 2000 Olympics and from which AFL and NRL benefited.

Considering it was converted to a rectangular stadium after 2000, the AFL got no benefit from it