Brisbane 2032 Venues/Stadiums Thread

[yoshi]

So could they build a Perth style stadium on this Albion Park, that'd be cheaper than what they were gonna do to the Gabba? Then they could demolish the Gabba anyway... Perth does look like a pretty ideal Olympic stadium, shame it's only just on the same continent 

[Rob2012]

2 minutes ago, yoshi said:

So could they build a Perth style stadium on this Albion Park, that'd be cheaper than what they were gonna do to the Gabba?

The Perth Stadium cost A$800m and opened 6 years ago. We know inflation and cost of materials have soared since then.

A quote from Daniel Levy this month about our stadium... “Timing is everything. We simply wouldn’t be able to do what we did if we were doing it today.” (https://www.ft.com/content/faeff9d5-d803-4cf8-9cd9-961ff1557540)

I can't see a new Optus Stadium being cheaper than a Gabba rebuild. The cheaper options are all going to be far less impressive than either of those projects.

[yoshi]

So the 2.7 billion of the rebuild is basically a minimum for anything? Also what's this problem with the arena, it has all been about the Gabba causing enough problems - more on top is really not needed. It really feels like Brisbane has bitten off more than it can chew, and without going through a bid process where they could refine their plans...I just hope they can find solutions 

[Rob2012]

58 minutes ago, yoshi said:

So the 2.7 billion of the rebuild is basically a minimum for anything?

For a large, permanent stadium with all the bells and whistles and modern facilities, you're looking at £1bn as a base figure I would think (I can't think in Australian dollars). That's the kind of stadium Optus is, that's what a complete rebuild of the Gabba would be.

I don't know what Brisbanites want, but - assuming the Gabba project is dead - I want organisers to prioritise capacity now. Stick up something temporary like London (I know it hasn't turned out that way here) and get 80k in each day. Doesn't matter if it's not the flashiest venue in the world, just please don't end up with something that looks Commonwealth Games sized.

Temporary: Yes

Tinpot:No

Edited February 9, 2024 by Rob2012

[FYI]

5 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

The big problem I see is that the former Federal Government gave a huge blank cheque in promising to meet half the costs of the Games and Qld saw the opportunity to milk what they could from it and up their ambitions. The Gabba upgrade was not part of that Federal commitment, but was only really possible because Federal money relieved other cost strains. 

Personally, I think Coates saw that at the time, 2020–21, Brisbane had its biggest and best opportunity to snare the Olympics by surprise, and may not have had such an opportunity again. He ran with it. 

Which that really casts doubt, contrary to what our new-norm resident says, that the new-norm "opens the door" to mid-tier cities to host the Olympics, when in actuality, is far from the case, since in the U.S. for example, there's NO way the federal gov't would be giving a huge, black check for subsidizing HALF the Games for any U.S. city. And also with no U.S. version of a JC to run with it, even that much less likely.

5 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

The funny thing is, I don’t the IOC itself were ever really too happy with the Gabba plan. It was sprung on them last minute, after they’d already decided on Brisbane, and they had to be re-assured and smoothed over to accept it. I think Coates was only too happy to kill it now it was becoming a political and support liability. 

That would've been UNTHINKABLE in the yesteryear's of the IOC bidding days. Even now in the new-norm era it would seem to be unthinkable, since the IOC still wants some kind of initial proposals before taking any city on to the next "dialog" level. All the more bewildering, at least from the outside, why Brisbane was ever chosen ITFP.

[FYI]

1 hour ago, yoshi said:

So the 2.7 billion of the rebuild is basically a minimum for anything?

$2.7B Australian is about $1.7B U.S. And considering SoFi stadium in L.A. cost well-over $5B to erect (although SoFi is still  a bit larger than Optus), $1.7 for a brand-new stadium would seem like a bargain these days in comparison. 

1 hour ago, yoshi said:

It really feels like Brisbane has bitten off more than it can chew, and without going through a bid process where they could refine their plans.

We all know (well, most of us anyway) who we can thank for that.

2 hours ago, yoshi said:

Perth does look like a pretty ideal Olympic stadium, shame it's only just on the same continent 

Maybe JC can move it to Brisbane piece-by-piece. And rename it New Norm Stadium. 

[BigVic]

Rio 2016 was held in the Southern Hemisphere Winter and Brisbane in 2032 will be the 2nd Summer Olympics held in the Southern Hemisphere winter.

Sydney had 7 years to prepare for the Games from the day Samaranch said "The Winner Is Sydney" to the lighting of the Cauldron at Stadium Australia. The Gabba is old and is the smallest Olympic Stadium at 50,000. 

[Australian Kiwi]

Interesting article in today's Guardian.

Its worth noting its just over a month until the Brisbane City elections. The Greens' candidate has a good chance of taking Mayoralty and his position is now shifting towards removing City support for the 2032 Olympics with an openness to their total cancellation if certain conditions are not met.  However, the host city contract forbids this. 

I'd say right now there is good chance the IOC is monitoring every step Brisbane organisers and the Qld Govt makes over the coming 12 months in particular. As they are the only ones with the power to revoke the Olympics, it would given them enough time to secure a new host and still have about a six year lead in time to 2032. 

Brisbane v the Olympics: Gabba shambles shows people power is hitting the 2032 Games

The speed of recent pivots reveals there is genuine concern that people are uneasy about the Games amid rising housing and cost of living pressures

Sat 10 Feb 2024 19.00 GM

Denver, Colorado, is the only place to ever cancel the Olympic Games. The city had won the right to host the 1976 Winter Games, but withdrew amid mounting local opposition.

“We ought to say to the nation and the world, ‘We’re sorry … we made a mistake. Take the Games elsewhere,” state representative Bob Jackson told the Associated Press in 1971.

These days, there is no get-out clause for an Olympic host, even in the case of major cost blowouts or a deadly pandemic. Under the terms of the host city contract principles for Brisbane 2032, the International Olympic Committee can withdraw the games in certain circumstances. The organisers  ave no such right.

This week, the IOC vice-president, John Coates, publicly advised the Queensland government to scrap its plans for a $2.7bn Olympic stadium to replace the ageing Gabba, and instead use existing facilities for the opening ceremony and athletics events in 2032.

The state had been reviewing its infrastructure plans, but Coates’s intervention points to a deeper concern that the mood in Brisbane was fast heading the way of Denver. He told the Courier Mail the Gabba rebuild risked turning people against the Games and acknowledged the Olympic movement was “on the nose” in Brisbane.

So how did we get here?

The decision by the new premier, Steven Miles, to review Olympic plans followed a series of political brawls and bungled announcements that had mired the first few years of games preparations.

Amid growing concerns that hosting the Olympics had become cost-prohibitive – even ruinous for some host cities – the IOC, with the strong influence of Coates, devised a “new norm” approach with the aim of making the event more sustainable. Host cities were encouraged to use existing infrastructure, rather than build new edifices.

After Brisbane became the “priority bidder”, the then-Queensland premier, Annastacia Palaszczuk, unilaterally announced the centrepiece of the city’s plans would be the Gabba rebuild. Ted O’Brien, the former Morrison government special envoy for the Olympics, said this week the announcement “nearly killed” the city’s bid for the games when it “blind-sided” everyone.

“It flew in the face of everything we were pitching to the IOC about avoiding a big spend on venues and it also broke faith with the people of Queensland who had been assured the 2032 Games would not become a spendathon with taxpayer money,” he said.

All options on the table as review of ‘divisive’ Brisbane Olympics venues plan begins

The state had told the IOC it would establish an independent coordination authority to oversee games projects; then backtracked and decided they would be better managed by the state government; then said it would set up the oversight body after all.

The plan to redevelop the Gabba had always been – under the surface – more about cricket and Australian rules football than the Olympics. The ground is the traditional host of the first cricket Test of the Australian summer, but has lost the right in recent years due to concerns about outdated facilities and transport links.

But the need to find an interim home for both codes while the stadium was redeveloped also led the state government into problems. The government announced – apparently with little notice to anyone – that the Brisbane showgrounds would also be redeveloped to provide a temporary home ground for the Brisbane Lions, and for Test cricket. The only wrinkle was that the council and those codes would have to cough up and pay for most of it.

The Brisbane lord mayor, Adrian Schrinner, withdrew his support for the Gabba rebuild and resigned from a games delivery forum over the announcement. A week later, Palaszczuk resigned as premier.

Since taking over, Miles has sought to salvage the process, re-announcing the independent delivery authority, and ordering the review into infrastructure plans, including the Gabba.

Growing opposition

No significant public polling has ever sought to test the Brisbane community’s support for the Olympics, but the speed of recent pivots shows there is genuine concern that people are increasingly uneasy about the games.

One key reason is broader concern about housing and cost-of-living pressures. Miles this week announced a landmark housing policy that demands more homes be built. It had become increasingly hard to justify spending $2.7bn – likely more – while the number of people in crisis accommodation was growing, and while homes were becoming less affordable.

Why is the Gabba rebuild plan so controversial and what’s next in the Brisbane Olympics brawl?

The idea of building a new stadium when builders and tradespeople are also scarce played to the same concerns – we need those people focused on addressing housing supply.

Neighbourhood concern has also been a significant factor. The fiercest opposition to the Gabba rebuild came from the Woolloongabba area – a suburb represented by Greens at local, state and federal levels – where parkland would be taken over by a warmup track, and a 127-year-old school was to be demolished.

If the Gabba plan is ditched, it would amount to a massive win for these campaigns – possibly the biggest win for the people v the Olympic movement since Denver.

But it should also serve as a clear warning to governments and Olympic organisers. If the next eight years are as shambolic as the past few, Brisbane may yet reach the point where we raise our hand and say “sorry, we made a mistake”.

[Australian Kiwi]

Not only the Greens on the left, but its also on the far right with One Nation now putting cancellation of 2032 as a central position heading into the October 2024 Qld State Election. While I think One Nation are loopy fascists, the reality is that they wield significant power in Queensland. If they are putting the Olympics in their crosshairs, I'd say politically thinks are very far from stable. 

Pauline Hanson slams organisers over 2032 Brisbane Olympic Games 'budget blowouts and waste': 'Vanity project'

By BRETT LACKEY FOR DAILY MAIL AUSTRALIA

PUBLISHED: 17:16 AEDT, 9 February 2024 | UPDATED: 13:50 AEDT, 10 February 2024

One Nation leader Pauline Hanson has slammed the 'budget blowouts and waste' of the Brisbane 2032 Olympics as preparations for the event appear to be in shambles. 

International Olympic Committee vice-president John Coates declared this week the games were 'on the nose' with the Queensland public after the government bungled venue redevelopments. 

Former Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk had put a redeveloped Gabba stadium as the crown jewel in the Olympics bid but the project has been declared 'dead' with Mr Coates saying the government failed to promote alternative venues.

In January new Queensland Premier Steven Miles ordered a review into the redevelopment over concerns the $1billion price tag had ballooned to $2.7billion.

Senator Hanson said on Thursday that 'as far back as 2018' her party had warned that 'Labor's Olympic vanity project was unfeasible and not properly costed'. 

'We warned you that there would be budget blowouts and waste,' she said.

'We warned you ahead of the 2022 state election. We are warning you again.'

She pointed to cost estimates for the Sydney 2000 Olympics which ballooned from $3.2billion to $6.9billion with the two-week event making a $2.1billion loss. 

One Nation leader Pauline Hanson has called for the Brisbane 2032 Olympic Games to be scrapped after the redevelopment of its main stadium looks increasingly unfeasible 

Senator Hanson pointed to the Sydney 2000 Olympics making a loss in terms of the business and tourism it generated

Her comments follow ex-Victorian Labor Premier Dan Andrews last year sensationally cancelling his state's 2026 Commonwealth Games after cost estimates blew out from $2.6billion to $7billion. 

Premier Miles tasked former Brisbane Lord Mayor Graham Quirk with looking into the Gabba project and the just-as-troubled Brisbane Arena project, which would see a 17,000 seat auditorium built above Roma St railway to house the swimming events.

But Coates, who was central in Australia securing the Sydney and then Brisbane Olympics, pre-empted the March 18 review this week by saying in an interview the Gabba project 'just doesn't stack up'.

'We've put it to the review committee we should abandon the Gabba and we should look for another site for the athletics,' Mr Coates told News Corp.

He's proposed the opening ceremony be held at Suncorp Stadium and athletics at Queensland Sport and Athletics Centre, the venue for the 1982 Commonwealth Games.

The redevelopment of Brisbane's iconic Gabba stadium for the Olympics is all but canned after the cost blew out to triple the original $1billion costing 

Since then, Australian Olympic Committee President Ian Chesterman agreed there are better options than rebuilding the iconic Brisbane venue for the Games, and those would be put to a review committee.

Brisbane's Mayor Adrian Schrinner said the Gabba project was 'dead' while Minister for Infrastructure Grace Grace said she would wait for the report. 

Brisbane 2032 Organising Committee president Andrew Liveris said the Gabba and Brisbane Arena projects had wasted valuable time to prepare for the Games.

'I lament the loss of time, and the distraction that has taken a little away from the amazing accomplishment of winning these Games,' he said

'We need to not re-litigate every decision on venues and infrastructure. We need to get the best outcomes for all stakeholders and get on with the job planning for what will be the biggest event in Queensland's history, and one for all of us to be proud of.'

Ms Grace denied that time had been 'wasted' and the Games had become a planning 'mess'.

'Since our bid there has been a lot of changes post-Covid ... building costs is one of those … so it is time to take stock,' she said.

Queensland Infrastructure Minister Grace Grace insisted the Olympics Games were not 'dead' in the state and alternative venues would be found

Whether the Gabba should be demolished and reconstructed as the centrepiece of the games had been hotly debated since a plan was released in November.

The Queensland government unveiled a $2.7billion Gabba rebuild plan that would see the stadium demolished, reconstructed and out of action from 2025 to 2030.

It would also force Brisbane's AFL and cricket to find a new home.

Opponents had called for its reconstruction to be axed because of escalating costs after the plan's initial $1 billion price tag blew out to almost three times that estimate.

In announcing the review in January, Premier Steven Miles said he hoped the independent process could find options that are better value for money.

Mr Miles also said he shared the concerns expressed by Queenslanders about the level of expenses involving a five-year rebuild.

'Concerns about the cost of some venues have made it a divisive issue in the Queensland community - I want to change that,' Mr Miles said.

Deputy state opposition leader Jarrod Bleijie said the LNP's stance on the Gabba's had not changed.

'The Liberal National Party have always held the view we do not support the full Gabba knockdown,' he said on Thursday.

'It was a $2.7 billion project without a business case, without any financial credibility behind it.'

The Queensland Greens have also called for the entire project to be scrapped, citing the threat the reconstruction plan posed to East Brisbane State School.

'The Greens have been fighting this stupid project for three years now, calling out the extreme cost, the lack of consultation, and the fact that destroying a school and park for a four-week event is ludicrous,' South Brisbane MP Dr Amy MacMahon said.

'We're not stopping until we hear the premier say that the Gabba rebuild is scrapped, and East Brisbane State School and Raymond Park are protected.'

[Sir Rols]

1 hour ago, Australian Kiwi said:

After Brisbane became the “priority bidder”, the then-Queensland premier, Annastacia Palaszczuk, unilaterally announced the centrepiece of the city’s plans would be the Gabba rebuild. Ted O’Brien, the former Morrison government special envoy for the Olympics, said this week the announcement “nearly killed” the city’s bid for the games when it “blind-sided” everyone.

“It flew in the face of everything we were pitching to the IOC about avoiding a big spend on venues and it also broke faith with the people of Queensland who had been assured the 2032 Games would not become a spendathon with taxpayer money,” he said.

^^^ This ^^^

My problem always has been that Brisbane 2032 was sold to the public and the IOC as one thing, and then after the fact Anna and Co had a rush of blood to the head and decided to go extravagant.

And the sad thing is, that’s now poisoned and lessened the chances to actually do some worthwhile upgrades and legacy projects for the games.

Take the Gabba rebuild. I’ve never been against it - the idea of it makes sense, both for the Games and for its future cricket/AFL use. But the expense just skyrocketed from $1 billion to $2.7 billion and climbing, and it was sold so poorly and so hamfistedsy brushed off genuine collateral concerns like East Brisbane School and Cricket’s and AFL’s alternatives while the rebuild was going on. Surely instead of a full rebuild, a lesser upgrade to existing facilities and some new stands would have been feasible. But after so much bad faith has grown in the public, even that is now likely politically off the table.

Something’s gotta be done to salvage the situation quick. Hopefully the review will be the start and ditch a lot of the expensive needless vanity projects - I’m looking at the likes particularly of the Redlands Whitewater Centre - to appease some of the growing critics.

I can understand Queensland and Australia want to show our best to the world, but that’s not what the IOC and the public were sold. This was to be a “New Norm” Games, and like it or not, we’re obliged to deliver that, not the traditional exorbitant show-off folly.

Edited February 11, 2024 by Sir Rols

[Australian Kiwi]

25 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

I can understand Queensland and Australia want to show our best to the world, but that’s not what the IOC and the public were sold. This was to be a “New Norm” Games, and like it or not, we’re obliged to deliver that, not the traditional exorbitant show-off folly.

But this is precisely why I think Brisbane is the wrong city to demonstrate a "New Norm" Games. Yes, most of the venues "exist" today but a fair bulk of them require significant money to bring them up to a reasonable standard. Plus, they are spread out over a very large region with only moderate public transport infrastructure to connect it all. 

If the IOC really wanted to demonstrate a New Norm Games, in cities with existing infrastructure, we'd be seeing 2032 in Sydney or Melbourne. If the IOC really cared about sustainability, they'd relax on the dates and gather 10 or more cities from around the world with the existing facilities to be on long term rotation-- London, Los Angeles, Sydney, Melbourne, Beijing, Tokyo, Paris, etc all come to mind here. 

[Sir Rols]

27 minutes ago, Australian Kiwi said:

But this is precisely why I think Brisbane is the wrong city to demonstrate a "New Norm" Games. Yes, most of the venues "exist" today but a fair bulk of them require significant money to bring them up to a reasonable standard. Plus, they are spread out over a very large region with only moderate public transport infrastructure to connect it all. 

To be fair, though, that’s also how they were sold - as a SE Queensland regional games making use of the legacy of Gold Coast 2018. In which case it should have been more focussed on transport to make Carrara work, for example, rather than leap at the opportunity later to make the Gabba the showpiece instead.

I’m all for opening up opportunities for the games to go to new, lesser-tier cities. I like new faces more than a tired roster of repeat hosts. I think the games should still be something for new nations and cities to strive for. Our best legacy could have been, and still could be, showing how that can be done. But you don’t do that by saying: “Yes, it’s possible, but it’ll cost you $!0 billion or more”.   

 

Edited February 11, 2024 by Sir Rols

[Gonzo]

2 hours ago, Australian Kiwi said:

Under the terms of the host city contract principles for Brisbane 2032, the International Olympic Committee can withdraw the games in certain circumstances. The organisers  have no such right.

Reality would be ....

If the city says, we no longer want it, we will no longer will pay for it, what can the IOC do to force them to uphold their contract

Nothing...

IOC takes a breaking of the contract penalty fee and moves on

[Australian Kiwi]

4 minutes ago, Gonzo said:

Reality would be ....

If the city says, we no longer want it, we will no longer will pay for it, what can the IOC do to force them to uphold their contract

Nothing...

IOC takes a breaking of the contract penalty fee and moves on

Do we know what that fee might be? 

Obviously for the 2026 Commonwealth Games it was approx. $300m AUD. 

[Sir Rols]

2 minutes ago, Australian Kiwi said:

Do we know what that fee might be? 

Obviously for the 2026 Commonwealth Games it was approx. $300m AUD. 

Never been tested, so total guesswork. I’d guess  probably at least enough tp pay for a Gabba rebuild.

[Sir Rols]

I mean, theoretically, sure, I guess it is possible to say “Sorry Mr Bach, it’s just not happening. Deal with it”.

But realistically, it’s a real Mutually Assured Destruction scenario.

Australia’s reputation, especially on the heels of Dan’s ‘26 pullback, would be shredded. We’d be a sports hosting pariah for the foreseeable future. How could you trust us as a host for anything?

It’d be a death knell for any government that tried it on. No matter how cornered they might feel, it would kill them. It would make Dan’s hammering after dumping 2026 look mild. The compensation bill would be huge - for nothing. And probably not confined to the State Government. It would blow back on the Feds as well. It’d be Royal Commission material.

It’d be a literal disaster for the IOC. It would be the ultimate fodder for he NOlympics movement (who are certainly already gloating on the latest headlines from the Courier Mail). The ultimate rejection of the Olympic hosting model, if not the Olympics themselves. It’d hugely risk their financial partnerships and viability., We saw with Tokyo that as far as the IOC were concerned, better an empty games with no spectators than no games at all.

It’s in all parties interests now to make it work, whether they like the way it’s ultimately done or not.

Edited February 11, 2024 by Sir Rols

[Gonzo]

2 hours ago, Australian Kiwi said:

The Greens' candidate has a good chance of taking Mayoralty

Actually, he has little or no chance of winning overall, as Brisbane council is so huge and takes in all the outer suburbs where the Green vote would be low which more than counter balances the inner city where the green vote is higher

The current LNP mayor will most likely be returned comfortably considering the mess the state ALP is in, and the Green candidate may poll more than the ALP candidate

The interesting thing will be to see if the Greens can pickup more inner city seats and possibly force the LNP into minority, but even that is unlikely given their current buffer

[cfm Jeremie]

3 hours ago, Australian Kiwi said:

If the IOC really wanted to demonstrate a New Norm Games, in cities with existing infrastructure, we'd be seeing 2032 in Sydney or Melbourne. If the IOC really cared about sustainability, they'd relax on the dates and gather 10 or more cities from around the world with the existing facilities to be on long term rotation-- London, Los Angeles, Sydney, Melbourne, Beijing, Tokyo, Paris, etc all come to mind here. 

The problem with 2032 is that the contract with NBC was already signed before the 2032 Games were awarded. I am almost 100% convinced that the time window for the Games is included in the contract with significant penalties should the time window be changed.

Hopefully the IOC can negotiate more flexibility in the post-2032 MRH contracts.

[yoshi]

6 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

I can understand Queensland and Australia want to show our best to the world, but that’s not what the IOC and the public were sold. This was to be a “New Norm” Games, and like it or not, we’re obliged to deliver that, not the traditional exorbitant show-off folly.

The problem is, there's only really one (maybe two, don't know if Stadium Australia can still do athletics) Australian city that could truly do a New Norm Olympics...but they'd have to do it in November. This whole thing is a great shame, Brisbane has the chance to show that those smaller cities and regions can pull off the Olympics, and maybe even get to harness the Barcelona effect in a way the biggest cities can't or don't need. As it is, it feels like we're discovering that cities of Brisbane's size are too small to handle it, either that or the Olympics have grown too big for those cities, and possibly for their own good. 

(As an aside, would NBC object to an Olympics held just after the Super Bowl, late February/March? Wouldn't clash with NFL...or is the fourth Friday in July set in stone?)

[Gonzo]

March is March Madness time!

Barcelona metro area population is over 5 million, same size as Melbourne & Sydney and more than double that of Brisbane

[FYI]

I remember once-upon-a-time, when the IOC was saying that a region had to have a MINIMUM of 2.5 Million for it to even be considered for the Olympics. This was at a time when all the Leipzig's, Lille's, Havana's, Tulsa's & Hobart's, etc of the world foolishly thought that they could take on the biggest & most glamorous multi-sporting event on the planet. I just think that if we really want to be "honest" here, if it wasn't for JC pulling all the strings he could to hand Brisbane 2032 on a silver-platter, we wouldn't be having this discussion whatsoever.

Just how like the Winter Olympics have outgrown those small, charming wintery outposts like Albertville & Lillehammer (which everyone has so much nostalgia for), so have the Summer Olympics of the 21st century for smaller to mid-tier cities. And it's not like the IOC was ever really found of lesser-tier cities anyway. It just happened to work out that way for some of them.

[yoshi]

1 hour ago, Gonzo said:

March is March Madness time!

Barcelona metro area population is over 5 million, same size as Melbourne & Sydney and more than double that of Brisbane

Oh, so does that mean the fourth Friday in July is the mandated date for as long as NBC are with us? Unless April would work...

I confess I didn't know Barcelona was that big, I thought around 2-3 million...5 can't be far off Madrid, possibly even bigger. 

I didn't know they had a hard limit at one time, I guess we're currently finding out why. Only now that limit would probably need to be around the 4-5 million mark. I do agree though that there's no way Brisbane would've won a normal bid. If not for John, we're probably now eagerly discussing which of Madrid or Istanbul finally win for 32, while the IOC lean on NBC to relax their rules enough to allow Melbourne 36 to happen. That said I do still hope Brisbane can somehow make it work...

[FYI]

I think it's all in the wording. A 2.5 million "minimum" to even be "considered". And since when does the IOC just go for the bare minimum, besides hardly ever. Which then gets us up to that 5 million mark.

Besides Brisbane & Atlanta (which, at the time of their hosting, they weren't as big as they are now, but then again, the summer Games were a bit smaller back then), you'd have to go all the way back to Helsinki 1952 for a smallish city that last hosted the summer Games.

[Sir Rols]

9 hours ago, yoshi said:

The problem is, there's only really one (maybe two, don't know if Stadium Australia can still do athletics) Australian city that could truly do a New Norm Olympics...but they'd have to do it in November. This whole thing is a great shame, Brisbane has the chance to show that those smaller cities and regions can pull off the Olympics, and maybe even get to harness the Barcelona effect in a way the biggest cities can't or don't need. As it is, it feels like we're discovering that cities of Brisbane's size are too small to handle it, either that or the Olympics have grown too big for those cities, and possibly for their own good. 

When I talk about “New Norm” games it’s more in the vein of possible lesser-tier cities and regions, expanding the pool of possible hosts, rather than oven-ready metropoli like Melbourne, LA, Paris etc.

I also don’t think it’s a matter that Brisbane can’t handle it. The problems at the moment are more political than logistical. The Gabba being the centrepiece of those political issues - if it wasn’t for how it’s been politicised now, it would make excellent logistical and legacy sense. Such a pity. But there’s options besides the Gabba, just that they all have varying pluses and minuses.

What I think Brisbane has shown up is the limitations of the “regional games” model. It’s always sounded sensible and reasonable on paper, but also like Victoria ‘26 demonstrated, it’s really not so viable, or cheap, unless you’ve got a bloody good transport network in place to support it. I’ve said before, after Vic26 fell apart, that maybe it could work in places like the Netherlands, Germany (Ruhr) or Japan. Beyond that, not much else.

We also have to learn that it’s just not economically viable any more to expect large showpiece stadiums to support an athletics legacy. Large showpiece stadiums are a dime a dozen if you can count rectangular fields. But the likes of the Stade de France, the MCG (or even Ahmedabad Stadium) are pretty rare. I actually think the IAAF realise this, and we’re already seeing them accept things like Rio’s solution, or what Brisbane’s solution will be, for the Olympics, and things like Eugene and Budapest’s 30k-seater, for the World Championships. If we want to see an expanded pool of hosts, we’ve gotta accept we’ll see more of those later types.

[Nacre]

On 2/10/2024 at 6:54 AM, BigVic said:

Sydney had 7 years to prepare for the Games from the day Samaranch said "The Winner Is Sydney" to the lighting of the Cauldron at Stadium Australia. The Gabba is old and is the smallest Olympic Stadium at 50,000. 

I know you meant recent Olympic stadium, but I always think that it is worth pointing out that the Stockholms Olympiastadion from 1912 was 14,000 permanent seats with up to 20,000 seating for the Olympics, and it is still the right size venue for annual athletics events.

Meanwhile in Paris their annual Diamond League meet has moved out of the 81,000 seat Stade de France for 20,000 seat Stade Charlety. Even if Brisbane was the size of Tokyo or Paris it wouldn't need a 60,000 seat stadium with a track in it.

32 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

When I talk about “New Norm” games it’s more in the vein of possible lesser-tier cities and regions, expanding the pool of possible hosts, rather than oven-ready metropoli like Melbourne, LA, Paris etc.

I also don’t think it’s a matter that Brisbane can’t handle it. The problems at the moment are more political than logistical.

The "New Norm" really requires cities to have existing venues and tourism infrastructure, and Brisbane needs to either build several of the largest and most expensive sporting venues or use substandard existing ones, and in reality it also needs to expand its hotel capacity. So there are capital concerns beyond the political concerns.

Edited February 11, 2024 by Nacre