Brisbane 2032 Venues/Stadiums Thread

[Sir Rols]

35 minutes ago, Nacre said:

The "New Norm" really requires cities to have existing venues and tourism infrastructure, and Brisbane needs to either build several of the largest and most expensive sporting venues or use substandard existing ones, and in reality it also needs to expand its hotel capacity. So there are capital concerns beyond the political concerns.

In theory, yes, but there’s no such thing as a total “no build” location. Even the Paris’ and Melbourne’s of the world would need to supplement their already existing array of facilities.

Apart from athletics, the only other build that is  majorly contentious for Brisbane is Brisbane Live, which was planned and locked in before the bid. It’s a nice addition, but again not necessary. We do have other swimming options - the main problem is being Oz, we’d love a big seat capacity to accomodate the 20 million or so of us who’d fancy they’d like to watch swimming. Other follies like the Redland Whitewater are just sh!t that most sensible people realise are not needed at all and really need to be scrapped.

Brisbane as a discrete entity may have the hotel capacity. But bring in the Gold Coast - the Orlando of Oz - and it’s secure.

But again, that’s the thing. It was all very well to emphasise the regional facilities of SE Qld when Brisbane was bidding, but come to reality, the OCOG and government have been dialling back and ruling out using more regional facilities because of transport. Carrara would be a great athletics venue for 2032 - if they could put in a light rail to there. 

Edited February 11, 2024 by Sir Rols

[Nacre]

38 minutes ago, Sir Rols said:

In theory, yes, but there’s no such thing as a total “no build” location. Even the Paris’ and Melbourne’s of the world would need to supplement their already existing array of facilities.

Yes, but Melbourne has large venues with lots of amenities for the major sports already built. They have 90% of what they would need already in place, and only need to build or renovate a little.

Using existing venues and cheap temporary venues makes perfect sense - if the IOC picks a city like Paris, Melbourne or Los Angeles to host. 

[Sir Rols]

8 minutes ago, Nacre said:

Yes, but Melbourne has large venues with lots of amenities for the major sports already built. They have 90% of what they would need already in place, and only need to build or renovate a little.

Using existing venues and cheap temporary venues makes perfect sense - if the IOC picks a city like Paris, Melbourne or Los Angeles to host. 

That’s fine. And supposedly Brisbane (+ region) have 80 per cent there already. The chief contentious one is the showpiece main stadium, and that’s mainly a problem of politics and what is considered “befitting” an Olympics.

And out of the big three that always get mentioned - Melbourne is out of contention for the foreseeable future while US broadcast network requirements rule. And we’ve got Paris and LA now lined up in succession. Are we ready to go back to London or Beijing so soon? Or Paris and LA again in the 2040s? Maybe there is a strong case for a rotating between six or so hosts. Or thge old “One Permanent Olympic Host” chestnut. But I for one don’t want to see it. I think there is still a case that the Olympics should be accessible for new hosts. And for all its faults, the Brisbane model is one way to show how that can be done.

[yoshi]

1 hour ago, Sir Rols said:

Carrara would be a great athletics venue for 2032 - if they could put in a light rail to there. 

I mean why don't they just do that? It looked perfectly adequate during the Commonwealth Games in 2018, athletics maybe needs to be told to wind its neck in on capacity before it becomes the summer bobsleigh, even World Championships are going to stadiums like Budapest and Eugene...I don't know how much tram lines cost now or how long it'd have to be but I'd be very surprised if it's more than $2.7 billion 

[Australian Kiwi]

1 hour ago, Nacre said:

Yes, but Melbourne has large venues with lots of amenities for the major sports already built. They have 90% of what they would need already in place, and only need to build or renovate a little.

Using existing venues and cheap temporary venues makes perfect sense - if the IOC picks a city like Paris, Melbourne or Los Angeles to host. 

I was thinking about this the other day. I think if it were Melbourne hosting 2032 the only existing venue where they would be the temptation for rebuild is MSAC. It was built in the early 1990s with the expectation for expansion for the 1996 Olympics, instead a smaller expansion happened for 2006 Comm Games. FINA 2007 ended up using Rod Laver (which would likely host Gymnastics / Basketball in an Olympics). Whitewater is another big unknown, hopefully we'd have just used Penrith. 

That said I'd also put my bet on parallel world where Jacinta Allan is under fire for spending money on a new aquatics centre on Gosch's Paddock. Maybe the long awaited MCG ugprade would be underway and underfire. 

Victoria has cash strapped, even if there was October hosting on the table and no Brisbane 2032 we would not be putting ourselves forward for 2036. Zero chance in this climate. 

[Nacre]

29 minutes ago, yoshi said:

I mean why don't they just do that? It looked perfectly adequate during the Commonwealth Games in 2018, athletics maybe needs to be told to wind its neck in on capacity before it becomes the summer bobsleigh, even World Championships are going to stadiums like Budapest and Eugene...I don't know how much tram lines cost now or how long it'd have to be but I'd be very surprised if it's more than $2.7 billion 

The problem is that with about 20,000 seats (or more!) used up by the "Olympic family" there would only be about 15,000 seats left for fans. To be honest I think that's fine, but it would be frustrating for fans to have so few tickets available.

[yoshi]

Could they put some more temporary seating on it? Or indeed how much would it cost to whack an extra permanent tier on one of the stands? And/or you could ask the Olympic family to take 10k less seats...

[Sir Rols]

3 minutes ago, yoshi said:

Could they put some more temporary seating on it? Or indeed how much would it cost to whack an extra permanent tier on one of the stands? And/or you could ask the Olympic family to take 10k less seats...

I don’t know. They used temporary seating to bring it up to 40k for the Commies. I’d guess it might be possible.

I think the main issues are transport, as mentioned, and that the village for athletics is envisaged as being within the Hamilton site in Brisbane. Got no idea how flexible the village plans are (there’s also one on the Gold Coast, but I don’t know how expandable that is).

If the Gabba is definitely ruled out, Carrara would be my preference, but I can’t claim to be on top of the logistical aspects of it vis-a-vis QEII.

 

[Australian Kiwi]

3 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

I don’t know. They used temporary seating to bring it up to 40k for the Commies. I’d guess it might be possible.

I think the main issues are transport, as mentioned, and that the village for athletics is envisaged as being within the Hamilton site in Brisbane. Got no idea how flexible the village plans are (there’s also one on the Gold Coast, but I don’t know how expandable that is).

If the Gabba is definitely ruled out, Carrara would be my preference, but I can’t claim to be on top of the logistical aspects of it vis-a-vis QEII.

 

Carrara also has the benefit of proximity to GC hotels. In terms of being a marquee Olympic event, I'd say people would end up staying on the GC if their priority is athletics. 

I know if I was to travel to SEQ for 2032 I'd likely spend a few days in Brisbane, and a few days on the Gold Coast to avoid the very long commute. 

[Australian Kiwi]

From the 2018 Commonwealth Games: 

 

I'd be interested to know what was the reason behind the temp seating being relatively modest. Pictured above is apparently a temporary increase from 25,000 to 35,000. Surely there would be some kind of mix of temporary and permanent upgrade that could notch this closer to 45,000?

[FYI]

So is the OV still planned at Northshore Hamilton?

[Sir Rols]

11 minutes ago, FYI said:

So is the OV still planned at Northshore Hamilton?

AFAIK know, yes. Haven’t heard anything to the contrary.

[Roger87]

22 hours ago, FYI said:

I remember once-upon-a-time, when the IOC was saying that a region had to have a MINIMUM of 2.5 Million for it to even be considered for the Olympics. This was at a time when all the Leipzig's, Lille's, Havana's, Tulsa's & Hobart's, etc of the world foolishly thought that they could take on the biggest & most glamorous multi-sporting event on the planet. I just think that if we really want to be "honest" here, if it wasn't for JC pulling all the strings he could to hand Brisbane 2032 on a silver-platter, we wouldn't be having this discussion whatsoever.

Just how like the Winter Olympics have outgrown those small, charming wintery outposts like Albertville & Lillehammer (which everyone has so much nostalgia for), so have the Summer Olympics of the 21st century for smaller to mid-tier cities. And it's not like the IOC was ever really found of lesser-tier cities anyway. It just happened to work out that way for some of them.

TBH I never understood the idea of Brisbane, but reading more about this... What the hell was the Queensland government thinking? Or Coates? 

More beyond of the discussion of 2,5 million to 5, the point is related about the global city. Although Sydney and Melbourne have the similar population to Atlanta, for a country like Australia (26 million) these cities representated their NYC/LA, global cities with proper infrastructure and weight or influence overseas. Brisbane was originally sold as a regional bid, and that could work bringing Gold Coast. 

Anyway, is a real possibility in the next future (2025) about Brisbane becoming the Denver of the Summer Olympics? Perhaps not now (yet) but going beyond, is there a realistic possibility?

[Victorian]

5 hours ago, Australian Kiwi said:

From the 2018 Commonwealth Games: 

 

I'd be interested to know what was the reason behind the temp seating being relatively modest. Pictured above is apparently a temporary increase from 25,000 to 35,000. Surely there would be some kind of mix of temporary and permanent upgrade that could notch this closer to 45,000?

The Nerang river is right behind the temp grandstands so it was as big as they could go.

[Gonzo]

55 minutes ago, Roger87 said:

Anyway, is a real possibility in the next future (2025) about Brisbane becoming the Denver of the Summer Olympics? Perhaps not now (yet) but going beyond, is there a realistic possibility?

Depends on the election results

If the opposition wins, they can say after they win 'we've done the calculations, and the previous government's financial numbers are not what we were told before the election and subsequently it is decided the best course of action is to cancel the game and the cost of cancelling outweighs the benefit'

or as it is now known "Do a Dan"

[Australian Kiwi]

3 hours ago, Roger87 said:

Anyway, is a real possibility in the next future (2025) about Brisbane becoming the Denver of the Summer Olympics? Perhaps not now (yet) but going beyond, is there a realistic possibility?

I think Brisbane will stage the 2032 Olympics in the end. As others have pointed out, losing them would be too much a national loss of face and the Feds will step in with the cash. 

Having said that I do not think they will be the poster child of a sustainable Olympics, and I think they will become a case study Olympics of how not to do it. I think Brisbane is now at risk of becoming a Montreal, Atlanta, or Rio more than it will be a Barcelona, Sydney or London.

[Nacre]

I think that Atlanta is the most reasonable comparison for Brisbane, and not really a negative for the city anyway. At least Atlanta did not burden itself with generational debt like Montreal, and if Brisbane is forced to accept a substandard venue for athletics the embarrassment will soon be forgotten.

[thatsnotmypuppy]

QSAC/QE2 has pretty much up to date athletics facilities - the athletes will be fine. The issue is the seating. At major concert events they don't sell the top rows of the end seating as frankly it is rickety as hell and probably a safety risk. If they could replace some seating with something temporary and safe, maybe new roofing on the permanent side stands and figure out a way to get people in and out without causing a meltdown on the freeway - it will do fine.  The traffic infrastructure is dicey around there at the best of times - that whole Sunnybank turn off is a nightmare at peak hours.

I may have to dig it up but I am pretty certain the IOC listed QSAC/QE2 and Carrara as acceptable alternate athletics venues in the candidate report thing they put out.  One thing is for sure - the organisers are seen as fools around these parts. Yes - the Gabba needs work but spending billions to rebuild it, just to spend hundreds of millions to retrofit back to a proper oval after 6 weeks or so of Olympic/Paralympic use is insanity.  

Also not using Penrith for the white water is fucking baffling to say the least. 

[Gonzo]

1 hour ago, thatsnotmypuppy said:

I may have to dig it up but I am pretty certain the IOC listed QSAC/QE2 and Carrara as acceptable alternate athletics venues in the candidate report thing they put out.

The IOC only recommended Carrara as an alternative ... QEII/QSAC was never mentioned

https://shorturl.at/nxBUY

[Guilga]

You know, with all those discussions about the Athletics venues, it makes me think whetever Football(any code) is bullying the most traditional olympic sport out of the big venues just because people prefer to get closer to the field than to have a track. Wonder how that could have negative influences on the sport reputation on the future. This mess on where to put the bloody thing here, Madrid potential bid with a track problem...

Now, Brisbane: y'all really messy, huh? Guess you will need every single one of these extra years if the last ones is any indication...even tough you kinda wasted them already.

[Sir Rols]

27 minutes ago, Guilga said:

You know, with all those discussions about the Athletics venues, it makes me think whetever Football(any code) is bullying the most traditional olympic sport out of the big venues just because people prefer to get closer to the field than to have a track. Wonder how that could have negative influences on the sport reputation on the future. This mess on where to put the bloody thing here, Madrid potential bid with a track problem...

Now, Brisbane: y'all really messy, huh? Guess you will need every single one of these extra years if the last ones is any indication...even tough you kinda wasted them already.

The irony is, in Australia the fields for two of the three major sports - cricket and AFL - are ideally suited for athletics.

Otherwise, I wouldn’t consider football owners selfish or bullying. Stadiums are expensive to build and maintain. And governments are less and less likely to fund “national” stadiums any more just for prestige. It has to be commercially viable,  and I can’t really fault a football club for wanting a stadium that best suits the needs of its fans and returns the most money.

it’s athletics, and athletics and Olympic fans, that have to face reality. Outside of the Olympics and (maybe) the world championships, it just doesn’t draw crowds or generate the type of money football does. It can’t be taken for granted any more that athletics at the Olympics is automatically entitled to a 60,000+ capacity grand showcase stadium. And that if we want to see new hosts like Madrid etc, we’ll have to accept things like 30-50k temporary stadiums at lesser locations will now be the “New Norm” more often than not.

  

[Sir Rols]

2 hours ago, thatsnotmypuppy said:

QSAC/QE2 has pretty much up to date athletics facilities - the athletes will be fine. The issue is the seating. At major concert events they don't sell the top rows of the end seating as frankly it is rickety as hell and probably a safety risk. If they could replace some seating with something temporary and safe, maybe new roofing on the permanent side stands and figure out a way to get people in and out without causing a meltdown on the freeway - it will do fine.  The traffic infrastructure is dicey around there at the best of times - that whole Sunnybank turn off is a nightmare at peak hours.

I may have to dig it up but I am pretty certain the IOC listed QSAC/QE2 and Carrara as acceptable alternate athletics venues in the candidate report thing they put out.  One thing is for sure - the organisers are seen as fools around these parts. Yes - the Gabba needs work but spending billions to rebuild it, just to spend hundreds of millions to retrofit back to a proper oval after 6 weeks or so of Olympic/Paralympic use is insanity.  

Also not using Penrith for the white water is fucking baffling to say the least. 

About bloody time Puppy! This must be your first Brisbane comment since it “won” its “bid”.

[thatsnotmypuppy]

 

3 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

About bloody time Puppy! This must be your first Brisbane comment since it “won” its “bid”.

I've always loved a dumpster fire.

[Sir Rols]

There’s cheap options…

                                                

[TorchbearerSydney]

Q: Also not using Penrith for the white water is fucking baffling to say the least. 

Not sure the competitors would enjoy lining up in July at the start line in the morning when its 1C to 5C or something similar..