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why NOT Italy:

1. CHAOTIC!!!

Not only hooliganism...these hundreds of arrested hooligans....and poor policaman....

I saw Biathlon wold cup in italy recently on eurosport.......Italians were not able to make a normal computer system!....commentator was complaining about there are now data available thanks to the Italian organizers.....

2. Materazzi vs. Zidane. not very nice....whoever started it....

3. Ita is many times world champion. it is unfair to give such advantage...I prefer weaker host nations like aut/swi coming or portugal in past.

4. TOO HOT!!!.........it is summertime....this weather is not good for playing during the summer....

5. too many tourists.......

6. MOST EXPENSIVE!...I don't know how much budget you have for the games.....

7. used to be already hosts of summer and winter olympics, euro and world cups.....time to give chance for others!

8. too political. mussolini neofascists....

9. too many Italians live in Italy....too noisy people....maybe except the pope in vatican.....but he is not italian, so doesn't count.

10. Vesuv is dangerous....Napoli stadium is unsafe for volcano....italy has many eathquakes too!

There are thousands of more reasons, not only 10! B)

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Welcome Marit!

2. Materazzi vs. Zidane. not very nice....whoever started it....
This is a silly reason and should in no way affect who gets 2012.
Vesuv is dangerous....Napoli stadium is unsafe for volcano....italy has many eathquakes too!

I think you're just clutching at straws now!!!

too many Italians live in Italy

HAHA! Well that settles it for me. Good reasoning. :P;) (only joking)

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why NOT Italy:

1. CHAOTIC!!!

Not only hooliganism...these hundreds of arrested hooligans....and poor policaman....

I saw Biathlon wold cup in italy recently on eurosport.......Italians were not able to make a normal computer system!....commentator was complaining about there are now data available thanks to the Italian organizers.....

2. Materazzi vs. Zidane. not very nice....whoever started it....

3. Ita is many times world champion. it is unfair to give such advantage...I prefer weaker host nations like aut/swi coming or portugal in past.

4. TOO HOT!!!.........it is summertime....this weather is not good for playing during the summer....

5. too many tourists.......

6. MOST EXPENSIVE!...I don't know how much budget you have for the games.....

7. used to be already hosts of summer and winter olympics, euro and world cups.....time to give chance for others!

8. too political. mussolini neofascists....

9. too many Italians live in Italy....too noisy people....maybe except the pope in vatican.....but he is not italian, so doesn't count.

10. Vesuv is dangerous....Napoli stadium is unsafe for volcano....italy has many eathquakes too!

There are thousands of more reasons, not only 10! B)

Good points, Marit. :D

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Marit, you forgot the two most important reasons:

1. Italy isn't co-hosting. How rude is it to keep the tournament all for themself when they could share it!

2. Italians stadiums are way to big! How in the world do you expect the spectators to find there ways in those huge mazes?

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1. Co-hosting is a solution for smaller countries.

Note that Hungary and Croatia was governed as one country 800 years long until 1918.

Only after 1918 Yugoslavia was created by antant powers....and now fell apart.

Besides, Croatia is expected to join EU in 2009, so except for Ukraine, everyone will be inside one country!

Distances between combined Croatian and Hungarian cities are less than Italian. You can take a train in less than 5 hours from Budapest to Zagreb! I have been there, done that, it is very cheap also. Not comparanble with train prices in Italy....

Note also that Italy is only a country since 1860....a young and not yet unified country....most probably will fall apart soon as Yug. did. Many people in the rich northern part would prefer Padanian Republic - Northern League.

2. I agree, Italian stadiums should be down-sized! Not friendly athmosphere any more.

Marit, you forgot the two most important reasons:

1. Italy isn't co-hosting. How rude is it to keep the tournament all for themself when they could share it!

2. Italians stadiums are way to big! How in the world do you expect the spectators to find there ways in those huge mazes?

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Hungary won olympics football tournament 3 times, more than any other nation!

Yugoslavia (incl. Croatia) won also 5 medals and ranks as 5th.

Soviet Union (Ukraine included) ranks 3rd and Poland 6-8th.

Where is Italy???????

........only 12th-13rd!!!

Even Uruguay.....East Germany and Czechoslovakia did much better than those untalented pizza-eaters :P:P:P

gold-silver-bronse-total (no. of olympic medals in men's football)

1 Hungary (HUN) 3 1 1 5 .............................Hun-Cro2012

2 Great Britain (GBR) 3 0 0 3

3 Soviet Union (URS) 2 0 3 5 .......................Pol-Ukr2012

4 Uruguay (URU) 2 0 0 2

5 Yugoslavia (YUG) 1 3 1 5 .........................Hun-Cro2012

6 Argentina (ARG) 1 2 0 3

Poland (POL) 1 2 0 3 ..................................Pol-Ukr2012

Spain (ESP) 1 2 0 3

9 East Germany (GDR) 1 1 2 4

10 Czechoslovakia (TCH) 1 1 0 2

France (FRA) 1 1 0 2

12 Italy (ITA) 1 0 2 3 ....................loosers here.DDDDD

Sweden (SWE) 1 0 2 3

14 Belgium (BEL) 1 0 1 2

15 Cameroon (CMR) 1 0 0 1

Canada (CAN) 1 0 0 1

Nigeria (NGR) 1 0 0 1

source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_at_the_Summer_Olympics

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Random fact: the geek that made the medal table is curently writing this message (he also did a madle table for Rowing, Boxing and Sailing).

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1. Co-hosting is a solution for smaller countries.

Note that Hungary and Croatia was governed as one country 800 years long until 1918.

Only after 1918 Yugoslavia was created by antant powers....and now fell apart.

Besides, Croatia is expected to join EU in 2009, so except for Ukraine, everyone will be inside one country!

Distances between combined Croatian and Hungarian cities are less than Italian. You can take a train in less than 5 hours from Budapest to Zagreb! I have been there, done that, it is very cheap also. Not comparanble with train prices in Italy....

Note also that Italy is only a country since 1860....a young and not yet unified country....most probably will fall apart soon as Yug. did. Many people in the rich northern part would prefer Padanian Republic - Northern League.

2. I agree, Italian stadiums should be down-sized! Not friendly athmosphere any more.

:huh: please...where are you from? seems you talk about things you don't even have a little knowledge!

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1. Co-hosting is a solution for smaller countries.

Note that Hungary and Croatia was governed as one country 800 years long until 1918.

Only after 1918 Yugoslavia was created by antant powers....and now fell apart.

Besides, Croatia is expected to join EU in 2009, so except for Ukraine, everyone will be inside one country!

Distances between combined Croatian and Hungarian cities are less than Italian. You can take a train in less than 5 hours from Budapest to Zagreb! I have been there, done that, it is very cheap also. Not comparanble with train prices in Italy....

Note also that Italy is only a country since 1860....a young and not yet unified country....most probably will fall apart soon as Yug. did. Many people in the rich northern part would prefer Padanian Republic - Northern League.

2. I agree, Italian stadiums should be down-sized! Not friendly athmosphere any more.

Huh? More wrong things in only one post? :huh:

Let's talk point by point:

1. Croatia and Hungary WEREN'T federation until 1918. The Austro-Hungarian Empire had its capital in Vienna, and Croatia was only a protectorate/province of the empire.

2. From what I know, the EU isn't a country but a supranational organization of countries with common economical policies and so on.

3. You can't compare the Italian trains with the Hungarian and Croation ones... You would be robbed if you had to pay the same in Croatia to get on in these old Yugoslavian stuffs...

4. Croatia is a country since 1991 and Hungary since 1918... Germany get united in 1871 and most of the African countries were born in the XX century...

5. How can you compare a country like Italy with an artificial union like Yugoslavia, were only one person was capable of maintain it united?

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Huh? More wrong things in only one post? :huh:

Let's talk point by point:

1. Croatia and Hungary WEREN'T federation until 1918. The Austro-Hungarian Empire had its capital in Vienna, and Croatia was only a protectorate/province of the empire.

2. From what I know, the EU isn't a country but a supranational organization of countries with common economical policies and so on.

3. You can't compare the Italian trains with the Hungarian and Croation ones... You would be robbed if you had to pay the same in Croatia to get on in these old Yugoslavian stuffs...

4. Croatia is a country since 1991 and Hungary since 1918... Germany get united in 1871 and most of the African countries were born in the XX century...

5. How can you compare a country like Italy with an artificial union like Yugoslavia, were only one person was capable of maintain it united?

Well there are organizations in northern Italy that want independence, the Lombardi League for instance, its not gonna happen and there is a huge difference between the united Italy and Yugoslavia like you said.

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why NOT Italy...There are thousands of more reasons, not only 10! B)

Nice to know there's another person in theses boards who feels the same way about the Dirty, Rotten, Cheating, Corrupt, Scandalized Scum Squad just like me. :)

But anyway, Italy never has the ethnic nationalism that the former Yugoslavia had that significantly prompted its breakup following its slow turn away from Communism after Tito's death in 1980. Northern Italy can't breakup from the rest because it's too rooted and established.

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Huh? More wrong things in only one post? :huh:

Let's talk point by point:

1. Croatia and Hungary WEREN'T federation until 1918. The Austro-Hungarian Empire had its capital in Vienna, and Croatia was only a protectorate/province of the empire.

2. From what I know, the EU isn't a country but a supranational organization of countries with common economical policies and so on.

3. You can't compare the Italian trains with the Hungarian and Croation ones... You would be robbed if you had to pay the same in Croatia to get on in these old Yugoslavian stuffs...

4. Croatia is a country since 1991 and Hungary since 1918... Germany get united in 1871 and most of the African countries were born in the XX century...

5. How can you compare a country like Italy with an artificial union like Yugoslavia, were only one person was capable of maintain it united?

Excuse, me, but you are not helping by replacing errors, or even correct facts, by other errors :)

1) Croatia and Hungary were in personal union since 1102 AD, which means that these two lands were united under one king. As a matter of fact, The Austro-Hungarian (sic!) Empire was a dual monarchy, with two capitals: Vienna and Budapest. The sovereign was emperor of Austria and King of Hungary, and crowned twice, separately, with Croatia-Slavonia (as it as called at the time) still falling under the Hungarian Crown. It was not a province of Hungary, but a country under the Hungarian Crown. A protectorate is something entirely different. Maybe you are confusing Croatia with Bosnia-Herzegovina here, which technically was not a protectorate, but at the time it was administered jointly by Austria and Hungary.

2) True

3) What you said may have been true 10-15 years ago, but these countries have greatly modernized their rolling stock over the last years, and you can bet, they will employ the very best only on the main lines between host cities.

4) I do not have the exact dates at hand on Croatia, but I know for a fact, that it already was an independent kingdom in the middle ages. Hungary was formed as a pagan feudal state in 896 AD and as a christian kingdom in 1000 AD. The fact that both countries have several times been subjugated by foreign powers and have been in different (con-)federational constellations, does not alter the fact, that both have a statehood that goes back more than one millennium.

Maybe you can elaborate on the relevance of Germany and Africa here, since the countries in comparison are Italy vs. Hungary and Croatia...

5) They can be compared, and that comparison will be followed by the conclusion that while the triggers for Yugoslavia's disintegration were ethnic and religious, in the case of Italy they are social and economic. The original point being that while in Italy, currently, disintegrating forces are dominating, while Hungary and Croatia are currently in an integrating process, you can not add much to that.

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5) They can be compared, and that comparison will be followed by the conclusion that while the triggers for Yugoslavia's disintegration were ethnic and religious, in the case of Italy they are social and economic. The original point being that while in Italy, currently, disintegrating forces are dominating, while Hungary and Croatia are currently in an integrating process, you can not add much to that.

what the hell are you talking about?

do you think it's the same being ethnically and realigoisly different and being economically different? it's like saying that France is almost disentegrating because Ile-de-France is too rich compared with Bretagne! Are you serious in what you say or not?

and do you have any idea of italian politics? it seems not! how can you say disentegrating forces are dominating in here? what the hell is your source? where did you read it?

then i wanna please ask to stop talking about when a state was founded and talking about middle ages, and a long-ago past. if someone should do that about italy, it should say that we should govern over almost entire europe, african mediterranean coasts and a piece of asia, coz of the roman empire! a state foundation is when it was founded as a modern nation. reign of italy was founded in 1861, and republican italy in 1946. and this should be done for every one, not talking about austrohungarian empire or something else. full stop.

btw, please stop talking about politics, it's a euro2012 thread this one!

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Cesco82, whether you like it or not, politics DOES influence sport event bids!

Don't simplify or twist other people's words. In every country there are differences in prosperity between regions. The thing is, while in most countries this does not result in major political forces advocating segregation and ever separation, in Italy it does. So your example of France is out of order. Instead of Ile-de-France, which is a ridiculous example, You could have brought up Corsica, but there again the forces behind the separatist movement are more ethnic/linguistic. Or Belgium, but there it is a combination of economical and linguistic differences.

And you are right, maybe Italy would still be the center of Europe, had my ancestors not crushed the Roman empire :) I would sincerely like to apologize on their behalf, and I hope you will get over your trauma soon ;)

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1) i didn't say politics is not influent. i just asked to stop some stupid political meaningless discussion (ex: those when the X state born things).

2) i do simplify coz you do that to. your semplification is "leganord is in italian parliament = italy is disentegrating"___ but that means only that in italy everyone can say everything and also have the right to say that in public institutions.

3) if you knew better the whole leganord history you probably would know that at their very first moments they wanted separation of the north, but now it's ages since they said something in that sense. and you would know that they bases their ideas on ethnicity, too.

nowadays they simply ask for "tax federalism".

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1. european political reasons are against Italy:

More than 20 years after the transitions of 1989/1990, behind the former iron curtain countries should host a major football tournament!

What is better chance for that than in 2012, when you have 2 excellent bids from this region?

Put it in perspective: for 2016 there will be more bids like British, Scandinavian etc. that are ALL BETTER than Italian bid.

2. football policy reasons in European football are also against Italy:

Due to economic reasons, Western European football is now more developed. For a healthy development of the continent's football, Central and Eastern European football needs investment and encouragement! This is also included in Platini's agenda: Central and Eastern Europe should be encouraged.

Similar pattern is going on with FIFA when Japan / Korea was awarded 2002 to support Asian football, S-Africa in 2010 to support African football.

Although FIFA is not UEFA, UEFA is also constantly looking for new areas for future development!

What is the benefit for Italy2012? Nothing.....

What is the message for Italy2012? Nothing....

This time, it should be really Croatia-Hungary or Ukraine-Poland!

******************************************************

To be fair with others, Italy should withdraw its application!

It would be a nice gesture and better to do that, than loosing the bid anyway.

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You are so right!

Surely UEFA should give euro2012 to Poland, which President or Minister has fired the head of Polish Football, with huge interference of Politics over Sport...that's a very good point to give Poland a chance! :D

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I heard the Polish minister has withdrawn his previous decision, so it is now all right for them!

I also heard that Italy just had a government-crisis, when prime minister resigned. Now, for a few weeks or months Italy maybe temporarily OK again....or maybe another, deeper crisis...especially now they have this volcano erruption....

Looking at flags only it is all the same....:

Italy has red-white-green colours,

Hungary has the same red-white-green colours,

Croatia has red-white colours: so the same again, but green missing

Poland has red-white colours: so the same again, but green missing

Ukraine...................... the only really different ones with blue-yellow.......

If you consider the blue-yellow colours of EU......it is than the same as Ukraine's!

So, we can conclude, that from a flag pont of view,

red-white-green and blue-yellow are likely to win :lol:

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