Quaker2001 Posted February 20, 2021 Report Share Posted February 20, 2021 3 hours ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56131781 'Mr Blinken refused to be drawn on calls for a boycott of the 2022 Winter Olympics, due to be held in Beijing, over allegations of genocide against the Uighur minority, saying only: "That's something we'll come to at the right time, in the right moment." ' That last line sums up this whole thread.. "at the right time, in the right moment" Clearly this is on the radar for a lot of people, but those who actually influence and make the decisions, it's not something they're going to make a commitment to for awhile. In other words.. exactly what you don't seem to grasp when you post every person's thoughts on this thinking each time you're expecting it to be some major news event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTHarner Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 It's not often that I get excited about the one year to go to the closing ceremony of an Olympic Games. But, a year from today it will all be over, thankfully. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikarus360 Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 On 2/16/2021 at 11:49 PM, BTHarner said: All we are seeing here are bold pronouncements by public figures that only serve to inflate their sense of self-importance. Do they know what boycotts really accomplish? Absolutely nothing. Jimmy Carter gave the Soviets one month to get out of Afghanistan They eventually withdrew...two administrations later and not because of anything of our doing. We heard all this noise in 2008 when delusional people actually thought they could get China to improve their human rights record. They didn't and, by some accounts, they have gotten even worse. They, however. really don't care what anybody thinks and and it is just preposterous for anyone to think they can force the Chinese hand. They can, and will, do as they please and we'll probably see this whole thing repeated in 20 to 30 years, maybe even sooner. People should be directing their rage against the Olympics and the IOC instead of China. The later is someone who will never change and which repeatedly fucks with the world, but the IOC thought it was a wonderful idea to let them host or even participate in a bidding proccess. And they still have the courage of talking about crap like Olympic Truce, human rights and brotherhood of people. I would like them more if they kee the whole kumbaya stuff for themselves and just said straight away "We love money". Doesn't make them less horrible but I like when someone is honest at least. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 12 hours ago, BTHarner said: It's not often that I get excited about the one year to go to the closing ceremony of an Olympic Games. But, a year from today it will all be over, thankfully. It's strange because the one year to go isn't usually preceded by a whole other Olympics. So it's tough to project ahead to Beijing. Right now, I'm so ready for the winter to be over and for it to be warm again and even though I've been watching a ton of winter world championships lately, my Olympic thoughts are with the uncertainly of Tokyo rather than a 2nd straight Asian Winter Olympics. The lead up to Beijing is going to be brutal and I'm not sure we can expect that all the political minutiae of these Olympics will die down as they normally do once the games start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 11 hours ago, Ikarus360 said: People should be directing their rage against the Olympics and the IOC instead of China. The later is someone who will never change and which repeatedly fucks with the world, but the IOC thought it was a wonderful idea to let them host or even participate in a bidding proccess. And they still have the courage of talking about crap like Olympic Truce, human rights and brotherhood of people. I would like them more if they kee the whole kumbaya stuff for themselves and just said straight away "We love money". Doesn't make them less horrible but I like when someone is honest at least. The 2022 bidding process needs to go down in Olympic annals as one of the great disasters ever. They could have had as many as 6 European nations bidding and then 1 by 1, every single one of them dropped out leaving us just with China and Kazakhstan (following a previous Olympics in Asia). It was a close vote, as history shouldn't forget and it almost wasn't China. Yet here we are and it's just a bad situation all around. And no, direct lots of rage at China. They're human rights abusers. That they'll never change doesn't mean save your energy and direct your anger at 1 of their enablers. Sure, the IOC needs to take a long look in the mirror here and accept responsibility for what they did here (much as FIFA has to do next year with Qatar). Kazakhstan isn't exactly some beacon of freedom in the world, so that would come with its own drawbacks, not that their negatives would out-weigh China. Again though, don't forget how close the vote was. It was never "we're all in on China because money is all that matters." If 3 out of 84 votes flip, this thread doesn't exist. Certainly of the 44 voters who picked Beijing, many of them were motivated by money, but the narrative shouldn't be that they picked China over Kazakhstan. The real narrative is that they could have had better cities bidding, but the IOC scared them all off so in the end, they were left with a giant douche and a turd sandwich 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanMUC Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Quaker2001 said: The 2022 bidding process needs to go down in Olympic annals as one of the great disasters ever. They could have had as many as 6 European nations bidding and then 1 by 1, every single one of them dropped out leaving us just with China and Kazakhstan (following a previous Olympics in Asia). It was a close vote, as history shouldn't forget and it almost wasn't China. Yet here we are and it's just a bad situation all around. And no, direct lots of rage at China. They're human rights abusers. That they'll never change doesn't mean save your energy and direct your anger at 1 of their enablers. Sure, the IOC needs to take a long look in the mirror here and accept responsibility for what they did here (much as FIFA has to do next year with Qatar). Kazakhstan isn't exactly some beacon of freedom in the world, so that would come with its own drawbacks, not that their negatives would out-weigh China. Again though, don't forget how close the vote was. It was never "we're all in on China because money is all that matters." If 3 out of 84 votes flip, this thread doesn't exist. Certainly of the 44 voters who picked Beijing, many of them were motivated by money, but the narrative shouldn't be that they picked China over Kazakhstan. The real narrative is that they could have had better cities bidding, but the IOC scared them all off so in the end, they were left with a giant douche and a turd sandwich So true...I still remember how easy the IOC made it for the NOlympics campaigners here in the referendum. Bach had just been elected IOC President and he was already unpopular, no „proud to have a German on top of the IOC“ momentum at all. And just a few days before the referendum, Beijing announced its bd, which led to a lot of fatalist reactions that the IOC would go for this anyway as a winter sports market of 1.3bn people (in theory) would be just too tempting. There were also other reasons for the no vote, as the Sochi discussions were picking up speed and the usual environment and cost concerns, but the IOC did zero effort to appease, just like with Oslo later. Instead, Bach just said „we‘ll have six wonderful bidders, not to worry about one negative referendum“. That arrogance fell back on his feet, but of course he carried on regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 1 hour ago, StefanMUC said: So true...I still remember how easy the IOC made it for the NOlympics campaigners here in the referendum. Bach had just been elected IOC President and he was already unpopular, no „proud to have a German on top of the IOC“ momentum at all. And just a few days before the referendum, Beijing announced its bd, which led to a lot of fatalist reactions that the IOC would go for this anyway as a winter sports market of 1.3bn people (in theory) would be just too tempting. There were also other reasons for the no vote, as the Sochi discussions were picking up speed and the usual environment and cost concerns, but the IOC did zero effort to appease, just like with Oslo later. Instead, Bach just said „we‘ll have six wonderful bidders, not to worry about one negative referendum“. That arrogance fell back on his feet, but of course he carried on regardless. Oslo is the bid that should forever haunt the IOC. It's one of the most enthusiastic winter sports nations on the planet with most of the needed infrastructure in place. And in the end, they weren't scared off so much by the costs of hosting an Olympics, but more than they didn't want to deal with the IOC and all their demands. Of course, we remember the aftermath of that with the IOC's "how dare you reject us" letter. The IOC should have bent over backwards to make it work for Oslo. They didn't do that and here they are starting down a Winter Olympics in China and all the negative press that's going to bring. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman530 Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 In some alternate world where Almaty flipped the vote, I would have absolutely been giving credit to the IOC for having the foresight to pass on China. Our threads would have been like "thank God we didn't pick China after the Hong Kong, Uighur, and coronavirus disasters, good move by the IOC by not jumping on the money. They may not be perfect but it would have been a LOT worse". Yet..........here we are. With A LOT worse. Way to go IOC...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman530 Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 ^^^ "they" being Almaty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDWHITEBLUE24 Posted February 22, 2021 Report Share Posted February 22, 2021 https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/beijing-olympics-boycott-a-non-starter-historian-1.5318832 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olympikfan Posted February 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 Someone forward this to me. My maybe Canada has some guts? That will be the day. Canada isn't a factor. WOO see China they are scared. Besides I think China owes most of the oil sands. And can someone in Canada confirm that most of housing boom in Vancouver is "outside" money beside I don't Canada wants to upset China. https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/mps-pass-motion-declaring-genocide-against-uighurs-in-china-despite-cabinet-abstentions-1.5319243 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDWHITEBLUE24 Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 https://lakesuperiornews.com/Sports/pull-the-2022-olympics-out-of-china https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/canadian-mps-back-vote-to-declare-uighur-genocide-wb5f3l2f5 https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/267907833/beijing-2022-winter-olympics-to-be-boycotted Canadian Parliament officially backs relocation. "The likelihood of a 2022 Olympic boycott is increasing by the day," said Natasha Kassam, an analyst at the Lowy Institute, in Sydney, and a former Australian diplomat in China, reported CNN. If I was a Canadian prospet for 2022 i would not be thinking participation is going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 2 hours ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said: https://lakesuperiornews.com/Sports/pull-the-2022-olympics-out-of-china https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/canadian-mps-back-vote-to-declare-uighur-genocide-wb5f3l2f5 https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/267907833/beijing-2022-winter-olympics-to-be-boycotted Canadian Parliament officially backs relocation. "The likelihood of a 2022 Olympic boycott is increasing by the day," said Natasha Kassam, an analyst at the Lowy Institute, in Sydney, and a former Australian diplomat in China, reported CNN. If I was a Canadian prospet for 2022 i would not be thinking participation is going to happen. What's a "prospet"? No.. if you were a Canadian athlete, you wouldn't be harbor visions of doom for your country's participation in the Olympics and you would very much by training and preparing as if you're going to the 2022 Olympics. Please stop projecting your personal viewpoint onto others. If you want imagine extreme scenarios (i.e. this all will lead to the unraveling of the IOC), that's your opinion. But it's a very biased opinion, and I think you know that by now. As for Canadian parliament.. I can assure you that the IOC will not give 2 shits what they back. Relocation is a complete and total non-starter and it's a waste of time and energy to ask for it. The IOC is not going to be persuaded less than a year out from the Beijing games to make a mess of those Olympics when they already have a mess of an Olympics upcoming. If Canadian parliament or any other government entity wants meaningful change, asking for something that's clearly not going to happen is a bad way of going about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDWHITEBLUE24 Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 The IOC is going to make sure no-one bids for future games the way they allowing China to threaten countries. https://sputniknews.com/world/202102231082159784-china-slams-canada-for-shameless-genocide-vote-on-2022-winter-olympics-as-relations-sour/ https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/uighur-rights-groups-pressure-corporate-sponsors-boycott-2022-beijing-olympics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDWHITEBLUE24 Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Quaker2001 said: What's a "prospet"? No.. if you were a Canadian athlete, you wouldn't be harbor visions of doom for your country's participation in the Olympics and you would very much by training and preparing as if you're going to the 2022 Olympics. Please stop projecting your personal viewpoint onto others. If you want imagine extreme scenarios (i.e. this all will lead to the unraveling of the IOC), that's your opinion. But it's a very biased opinion, and I think you know that by now. As for Canadian parliament.. I can assure you that the IOC will not give 2 shits what they back. Relocation is a complete and total non-starter and it's a waste of time and energy to ask for it. The IOC is not going to be persuaded less than a year out from the Beijing games to make a mess of those Olympics when they already have a mess of an Olympics upcoming. If Canadian parliament or any other government entity wants meaningful change, asking for something that's clearly not going to happen is a bad way of going about it. It does mean the likelihood of a Canada bid for 2030 is quickly decreasing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triplecast Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 I'd like to weigh in a little here. IMO, the USOPC has got to get out in front of all the 2022 boycott talk. Up until now, they haven't responded in the same way the Canadian Olympic Committee did - they should put out some kind of statement soon, similar to the COC's. Plus, the SLC bid for 2030 is far further along than Vancouver's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 1 hour ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said: It does mean the likelihood of a Canada bid for 2030 is quickly decreasing. It doesn't mean that at all. I know in your mind, all of this is inevitably going to mean "Canada blames the IOC for enabling China, therefore they won't want to work with them." Watch how quickly everyone forgets about the IOC's ties with China within a couple of months of the end of the Paralympics next year. Once again, I know you have visions of this being some sort of longstanding conflict that other countries won't soon forget. I don't think that's going to wind up being the case. If Canada wants to submit a bid for the 2030 Olympics, their feelings towards China will NOT scupper those efforts and I can assure you that the IOC will welcome that bid with open arms when they realize there's a lack of options out there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 1 hour ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said: The IOC is going to make sure no-one bids for future games the way they allowing China to threaten countries. https://sputniknews.com/world/202102231082159784-china-slams-canada-for-shameless-genocide-vote-on-2022-winter-olympics-as-relations-sour/ https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/uighur-rights-groups-pressure-corporate-sponsors-boycott-2022-beijing-olympics So you're calling Australia "no-one" here?... Exclusive: Queensland set to be installed by IOC as preferred bidder for 2032 Olympics 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted February 23, 2021 Report Share Posted February 23, 2021 29 minutes ago, Triplecast said: I'd like to weigh in a little here. IMO, the USOPC has got to get out in front of all the 2022 boycott talk. Up until now, they haven't responded in the same way the Canadian Olympic Committee did - they should put out some kind of statement soon, similar to the COC's. Plus, the SLC bid for 2030 is far further along than Vancouver's. They can, but I don't think it's necessary. Remember, the USOPC isn't a government entity like many other NOC's are. What the COC put out was likely necessarily in order to stave over any push by Canadian government to force them into a decision. The USOPC only has their sponsors and other funding sources to worry about. And I feel like any statement they might make is going to alienate someone. Best to lay low and stay quiet for now and only feel the need to respond when there's something more tangible to respond to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDWHITEBLUE24 Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 https://deadspin.com/canada-wants-2022-winter-olympics-out-of-china-says-co-1846337764 https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/strip-china-of-olympic-winter-games-over-uighurs-say-canada-mps-6bl99g3gx https://www.deseret.com/utah/2021/2/23/22297104/mitt-romney-reacts-to-boycotting-2022-olympics-beijing-uighurs-human-rights-genocide 'Antony Blinken, the US secretary of state, refused to rule out a boycott but said that such a decision would be taken with “fellow democracies”, including Australia, New Zealand and Britain, the three other members of the “Five Eyes” Anglophone alliance.' 'Utah Sen. Mitt Romney doesn’t favor boycotting the 2022 Winter Olympics in Beijing as a fellow Republican congressman is urging President Joe Biden to do. “I’m happy if President Biden himself boycotts the Olympics in Beijing. I don’t want our athletes to suffer. They’ve planned their whole lives to be ready at this point for this competition, so I don’t want to do things that hurt our athletes,” he said.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDWHITEBLUE24 Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 16 hours ago, Quaker2001 said: So you're calling Australia "no-one" here?... Exclusive: Queensland set to be installed by IOC as preferred bidder for 2032 Olympics The Aussie Parliament is pretty anti China = it's quite possible over the coming year their relationship with the IOC deteriorates badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDWHITEBLUE24 Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 Boris Johnson skeptical on boycotts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 3 hours ago, REDWHITEBLUE24 said: The Aussie Parliament is pretty anti China = it's quite possible over the coming year their relationship with the IOC deteriorates badly. It's also quite possible over the coming year their relationship with the IOC *doesn't* deteriorate badly. I "wouldn't rule that out" if I were you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triplecast Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 23 hours ago, Quaker2001 said: They can, but I don't think it's necessary. Remember, the USOPC isn't a government entity like many other NOC's are. What the COC put out was likely necessarily in order to stave over any push by Canadian government to force them into a decision. The USOPC only has their sponsors and other funding sources to worry about. And I feel like any statement they might make is going to alienate someone. Best to lay low and stay quiet for now and only feel the need to respond when there's something more tangible to respond to. Thanks for presenting the counter argument. The trouble for me is that 1980 is still fresh enough in my mind, although ultimately, there was nothing the USOC could have done then to change the outcome. It's going to be a trying year though, for those of us who live for the Games, but at least 364 days from now, it will all be over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDWHITEBLUE24 Posted February 24, 2021 Report Share Posted February 24, 2021 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56184428 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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