St Petersburg 2024

[FYI]

It looks like you were. Even in the unlikely event that area were to give it another try, it would be under the banner Tampa, not St. Petersburg. I think most regulars here would assume that whenever St. Petersburg is talked about, it's mainly the one in Russia & which would be the only one that could be realistically talked about regarding Olympic aspirations..

[Athensfan]

USA: 1994 FIFA World Cup, 1996 Summer Olympics. At the same cycle (1993-1996)

Also, 2002 Winter Olympics, 2002 FIBA World championship

Did you even read my posts?

It's worth remembering that it's entirely possible that 2024 won't feature South Africa, France or the USA -- all of whom would be presumptive favorites -- if they bid. 2024 could wind up being Toronto, St. Petersburg and Istanbul (or Tokyo).

I do think it is worth remembering that when we compare the US to other countries we are not comparing apples to apples. Yes, the USSR hosted in 1980 and LA hosted in 1984 (followed by Atlanta in 1996). However the USA plays a much more key role in the Olympic movement (broadcasting rights, TOP sponsors, audience share, etc). I am not saying the US is "entitled" to more Games than others. As I've written many times, I HATE it when people make that argument and I shrink with embarrassment. I am just saying that I think it is reasonable for the US to bid somewhat more frequently than other countries and to believe there is a good chance their efforts may succeed.

I don't think there's any chance that the IOC would give the USA the Winter Games, that FIFA would give them the World Cup four years later and that the IOC would top it off with Summer Games a mere six years after that. (Yes, yes I know the history with World Cup 1994, Atlanta 96' and SLC '02, but those days are gone.) If it isn't going to happen for the US, it's very difficult for me to imagine it working out for Russia. Of course it's possible, but I think it's pretty unlikely.

[baron-pierreIV]

Well, I guess it'll have to fight it out with San Diego, St Louis, Minneapolis-St Paul and St Petersburg Florida for the domestic nomination.

San Antonio, San Jose and Santa Barbara won't give up without a fight!!

[Quaker2001]

I can't be the only one who immediately thought this was for the Florida city.

Then again, with my past bid suggestions, maybe I am.

Knowing this forum, it wouldn't seem like the craziest suggestion ever, now would it.

[George_D]

USA want 2024 summer games and 2026 winter games too

[Athensfan]

USA want 2024 summer games and 2026 winter games too

No. The USOC is not trying to get both. They are trying to decide which one to pursue. It is possible they will not bid for either one.

[George_D]

If 2022 winter games go to europe, after 2 competitions in europe and 1 in asia, USA is the favourite for 2026. For Canada (2010) is too early. For summer games it depends on a lot of things. Above Russia and USA, Paris is the frontrunner, if they bid i repeat

[Daze]

If 2022 winter games go to europe, after 2 competitions in europe and 1 in asia, USA is the favourite for 2026. For Canada (2010) is too early. For summer games it depends on a lot of things. Above Russia and USA, Paris is the frontrunner, if they bid i repeat

Why is it too early for Canada, but not for Russia?

[intoronto]

Why is it too early for Canada, but not for Russia?

For the WOG yes its to early for another Canada games. This thread is about a potential summer bid from Russia.

[George_D]

Why is it too early for Canada, but not for Russia?

I said for winter Olympics is too early again for Canada. They just organized the last winter Olympics!

You also tell me why rotation must include all countries except USA?

[Daze]

Ah yeah no I got it. I thought you were talking about a potential Canadian bid for 2024.

[Athensfan]

If 2022 winter games go to europe, after 2 competitions in europe and 1 in asia, USA is the favourite for 2026. For Canada (2010) is too early. For summer games it depends on a lot of things. Above Russia and USA, Paris is the frontrunner, if they bid i repeat

There's no guarantee the US will even bid for 2026. Also, you didn't mention South Africa for 2024.

[baron-pierreIV]

The key to all futures bids and winning cities will be if Durban throws in its bid for the 2022 Commonwealth Games. I believe that will signal their 1st serious step to then moving on to the 2024 SOGs. The rest of the world can then take their cues from that.

[Athensfan]

The key to all futures bids and winning cities will be if Durban throws in its bid for the 2022 Commonwealth Games. I believe that will signal their 1st serious step to then moving on to the 2024 SOGs. The rest of the world can then take their cues from that.

Quite possibly, but it will still be a guess. A good guess though.

I can imagine a scenario where they go for the CWG in 2022 and decide to wait until 2028 for the Olympic bid. There's just no way to know for sure.

[baron-pierreIV]

I can imagine a scenario where they go for the CWG in 2022 and decide to wait until 2028 for the Olympic bid. There's just no way to know for sure.

I disagree. It doesn't make sense for them to wait past 2024 if they win the CWG 2022. If they waited for 2021-2028:

1. Sam Ramsamy will be long gone from the IOC.

2. The glow of WC 2010, IOC Session 2011 will be that much older by the election in 2021.

3. The centerpiece, the Moses what-have-you Stadium will similarly be another 4 years older;

4. Getting a lot of venues up and running for 2022 will have them (and all the other venues) in place for the 2023 OG test events; and only need a fresh coat of paint for 2024.

5. They could have half the intended O Village up for CWG 2022 use; while the other half is being built and completed in time for 2024. It is more expedient to keep the older half of the Village in abeyance for only 2 years (I'm sure it'll work as a 2-year Army barracks); then put it back to Village use for July 2024, consolidated with the other, newer half....and THEN release the whole plot for housing, hospital, campus, etc., after the 2024 Games -- than to then build ANOTHER entire Village for 2028.

6. The personnel trained for 2022 would still be up to snuff, and even more attuned, for 2023 and 2024.

They would get the best bang for their rand by putting these 2 complementary events back-to-back. That's the rationale I see for them going for a 2022-2024 run.

[Athensfan]

I disagree. It doesn't make sense for them to wait past 2024 if they win the CWG 2022. If they waited for 2021-2028:

1. Sam Ramsamy will be long gone from the IOC.

2. The glow of WC 2010, IOC Session 2011 will be that much older by the election in 2021.

3. The centerpiece, the Moses what-have-you Stadium will similarly be another 4 years older;

4. Getting a lot of venues up and running for 2022 will have them (and all the other venues) in place for the 2023 OG test events; and only need a fresh coat of paint for 2024.

5. They could have half the intended O Village up for CWG 2022 use; while the other half is being built and completed in time for 2024. It is more expedient to keep the older half of the Village in abeyance for only 2 years (I'm sure it'll work as a 2-year Army barracks); then put it back to Village use for July 2024, consolidated with the other, newer half....and THEN release the whole plot for housing, hospital, campus, etc., after the 2024 Games -- than to then build ANOTHER entire Village for 2028.

6. The personnel trained for 2022 would still be up to snuff, and even more attuned, for 2023 and 2024.

They would get the best bang for their rand by putting these 2 complementary events back-to-back. That's the rationale I see for them going for a 2022-2024 run.

I totally agree that if they host CWG 2022, it would be ideal to follow immediately with Olympic Games in 2024.

But just because it seems ideal from a sports organization perspective does NOT mean it will seem ideal from the government's expensive. Hosting the CWG will cost money. Hosting the Olympic Games will cost money -- even if CWG venues do double duty. Whether they want to fork over that much cash in that small a window of time is a matter of debate.

Clearly, the government is making decisions based on what they believe is best for the people of South Africa (as well they should!). They were not worried about losing momentum from the 2010 World Cup. I don't think there's any guarantee that they would be concerned about losing momentum from the Commonwealth Games. I don't get the sense that South Africa is basing everything on Ramsamy -- nor should should they. I don't believe South Africa needs Ramsamy to win. Everybody already wants the Olympics in Africa. If the bid is up to scratch, they're golden. Ramsamy's voice is not a necessity.

Your most compelling argument is the one concerning the village, however I still think the government could well say, "Yes, it would be ideal to stage these events close together, but it is just too expensive and the money is needed elsewhere in the short term. Like it or not, we need to wait."

In other words, Baron, I see your argument and I agree with it from a purely sports organization perspective. However, I think it is possible the government will view the situation through different lenses. A South African bid for the CWG certainly makes a 2024 Olympic bid more probable, but it does not guarantee it.

[baron-pierreIV]

Actually, and I forgot, having half the Village up for CWG 2022 will also guarantee housing for athletes coming in for the 2023 test events. So, all around, doing a one-two punch also makes sense from an investment point of view because you get it built in 2 phases; thus labor and amortization is spread out two years more rather than having it spring up altogether overnight. And this is NOT just for the Village but for all the other venues as well.

[Athensfan]

Actually, and I forgot, having half the Village up for CWG 2022 will also guarantee housing for athletes coming in for the 2023 test events. So, all around, doing a one-two punch also makes sense from an investment point of view because you get it built in 2 phases; thus labor and amortization is spread out two years more rather than having it spring up altogether overnight. And this is NOT just for the Village but for all the other venues as well.

Like I said, I see your argument, but I don't think we can be certain the government will view things the same way. The reality is that there is no reason why they CAN'T host Olympic Games later if they choose.

[baron-pierreIV]

Clearly, the government is making decisions based on what they believe is best for the people of South Africa (as well they should!). They were not worried about losing momentum from the 2010 World Cup. I don't think there's any guarantee that they would be concerned about losing momentum from the Commonwealth Games. I don't get the sense that South Africa is basing everything on Ramsamy -- nor should should they. I don't believe South Africa needs Ramsamy to win. Everybody already wants the Olympics in Africa. If the bid is up to scratch, they're golden. Ramsamy's voice is not a necessity.

A bird in hand is better than two in the..sorry to use a pun here,,,bush. Why let the oppty go to waste? And if they don't bid and host for 2024, will it be any cheaper for 2028? Nope. I believe the RSA gov't will have all their marbles and finances in order for a 2022-2024 punch.

[baron-pierreIV]

Like I said, I see your argument, but I don't think we can be certain the government will view things the same way. The reality is that there is no reason why they CAN'T host Olympic Games later if they choose.

Because it is false economy. A delayed dream will cost more. LA 1984 cost $500 million to stage (which they got back anyway). What was LA 2016's operational budget? I believe it was $1.5 billion. So how could anyone have saved anything by postponing something inevitable? Penny-wise but pound-foolish.

Sorry that this cuts into your hopes for a 2024 USA Games, but one should be realistic too.

[Roger87]

I'd agree that 2024 would be too soon for Russia, but it would all depend on who else is bidding, too. If we don't get Paris &/or no South Africa, & no USA either, then I could see the probability of 2024 going Russia's way, provided that they have a good & viable plan.

And if it's a different city, especially one that's still notable like St. Petersburg, I'd say that would even further their odds compared to offering up Moscow again, considering that they're still not too much of a distant host. i.e. 1980. It's what many cite against another L.A. bid, that it's still too soon after 1984. Plus, I'm sure depending on how well Sochi 2014 goes, that would further influence the voters.

100% agree with this post. 2024 is too soon for Russia especially with 2014 WOG and 2018 FIFA World Cup, but we need to keep St. Petersburg as a serious threat especially by the 2032 - 2040 SOG. After all, Russia is still a relevant country in these competitions -Fourth place in London- Also, St. Petersburg will be a nice contrast between the cosmopolitan architecture and russian culture...

[Athensfan]

Because it is false economy. A delayed dream will cost more. LA 1984 cost $500 million to stage (which they got back anyway). What was LA 2016's operational budget? I believe it was $1.5 billion. So how could anyone have saved anything by postponing something inevitable? Penny-wise but pound-foolish.

Sorry that this cuts into your hopes for a 2024 USA Games, but one should be realistic too.

Sure, but if you really don't have the funds to take advantage of the opportunity, you have no choice but to hope another opportunity presents itself later. It's frustrating, but sometimes that's life. The other key word in your post is "dream" -- food/healthcare/shelter/jobs vs. "dream." The South African government will absolutely weigh those factors.

They may go for 2022 and 2024. They may just go for 2022. They may just go for 2024. They may end up with neither. All these scenarios are possible.

2024 is too soon for Russia especially with 2014 WOG and 2018 FIFA World Cup, but we need to keep St. Petersburg as a serious threat especially by the 2032 - 2040 SOG. After all, Russia is still a relevant country in these competitions -Fourth place in London- Also, St. Petersburg will be a nice contrast between the cosmopolitan architecture and russian culture...

Russia will be in the conversation going forward. Your 2032-2040 window feels about right. They could end up waiting a bit longer even, but I don't think they've really got a shot until 2032.

[baron-pierreIV]

Russia will be in the conversation going forward. Your 2032-2040 window feels about right. They could end up waiting a bit longer even, but I don't think they've really got a shot until 2032.

And I think St. Pete will take a long time to get the full complement of venues that the 21st century OGs need. Besides being an imperial city, the 20th century Soviet gov't concentrated most of their funds and resources, including the many sports facilities, on Moscow; not the old imperial capital of St. Pete's. Even the stadium that hosted the 1994 Goodwill Games has long been demolished. If 2014 goes well, and they pace themselves right, St. Pete could be a major contender for 2028 onwards.

[George_D]

And I think St. Pete will take a long time to get the full complement of venues that the 21st century OGs need. Besides being an imperial city, the 20th century Soviet gov't concentrated most of their funds and resources, including the many sports facilities, on Moscow; not the old imperial capital of St. Pete's. Even the stadium that hosted the 1994 Goodwill Games has long been demolished. If 2014 goes well, and they pace themselves right, St. Pete could be a major contender for 2028 onwards.

Kirov stadium has been demolished, but a new is being constructed (70,000 seats) and it will be ready by 2015. It will be one of FIFA world cup stadiums.

Concerning sport facilities, it is the same for all. London also made 85% of venues the last 2-3 years.

Concerning St Petersburg there are enough facilities:

Velotrack "Lokosphinx" (2007, next to zenit stadium)

Petrovsky Stadium

Yubileyny Sports Palace

SCC Peterburgsky (one of largest indoor arenas in Europe, 25.000 seats)

Ice Palace St Petersburg (12,000 seats, where 2000 IIHF World Championship took place as also the 2016 IIHF WC)

New Zenit Stadium ( U/C )

BC Spartak Ιndoor Arena (almost complete, next to zenit stadium)

There is also under construction ExpoForum exhibition center like Excel with 6 pavilions, which will be completed in 2 phase 2013 and 2018.

[baron-pierreIV]

Kirov stadium has been demolished, but a new is being constructed (70,000 seats) and it will be ready by 2015. It will be one of FIFA world cup stadiums.

Concerning sport facilities, it is the same for all. London also made 85% of venues the last 2-3 years.

Concerning St Petersburg there are enough facilities:

Yeah but so what? They are hosting a Winter Olympics next year; and a WOrld Cup in another 6. It's NOT like they're the only country on earth due a SOGs, are they??