HJPro Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 HJ Pro is annoying me slightly actually. A few of his posts today seem to do down Rio in an effort to boost London; something that is not only unnecessary given how huge a success our Games has been, but also not particularly nice to read. Tone it down a bit fella (I'm talking about posts like this one really - how can you know four years out Rio won't match London?). Anyway, don't want to get iinto an argument, but a few of your posts have come across that way. As for the logo, it seems the IOC requested Rio go back to the old format. There's an interview with Rio's logo designer who said as much. I don't see the need for the IOC to be quite so prescriptive, but it's their show so they get to say what flies. If you see it that way then I apologise, however this is my opinion and I just can't see a South American country matching the best games I have experienced. I always thought Sydney's would be unbeatable, but London has done so and only a capital of that stature would be able to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJPro Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 If you see it that way then I apologise, however this is my opinion and I just can't see a South American country matching the best games I have experienced. I always thought Sydney's would be unbeatable, but London has done so and only a capital of that stature would be able to do so. Obviously it is impossible to predict whether Rio is going to do better or not, however you have an idea whether they are capable of doing it and in my opinion they're not. The experience I had at the London Olympics was better than my experience in Sydney's and we all know how difficult Sydney is to top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJPro Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 These are my home games and nothing will be able to match them... :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 I have to say, somewhat to my own surprise, that I agree with Blacksheep's statement about the Games not being comparable. Each edition has its own personality, strengths and weaknesses. Unless Games are clearly deficient in technical operations, it's pretty pointless trying to rank them. Technically London has been great and the British enthusiasm is fantastic. Some of the more subjective "flavors" of these Games have not been as much to my taste, but that's life. The one thing I see as a major flaw in London's organization is the cauldron. It should be publicly visible and should never be intentionally extinguished. Coe's justifications just made matters worse. I also think more thought should be given to how the OC will play internationally. Relatively speaking, however, many other things went very, very well. I do look forward to Rio and a sunny, warm, carefree celebration. It will be a great cultural contrast. I just hope they deliver technically. For now, I'm optimistic. Although Rio needs to learn from previous hosts, I hope they just do their OWN thing. In some areas their choices may parallel other hosts, but that doesn't make them copy cats. After all, they will be hosting the XXXIst Olympiad. True originality in every facet of organization is probably not a reasonable goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJPro Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 I have to say, somewhat to my own surprise, that I agree with Blacksheep's statement about the Games not being comparable. Each edition has its own personality, strengths and weaknesses. Unless Games are clearly deficient in technical operations, it's pretty pointless trying to rank them. Technically London has been great and the British enthusiasm is fantastic. Some of the more subjective "flavors" of these Games have not been as much to my taste, but that's life. The one thing I see as a major flaw in London's organization is the cauldron. It should be publicly visible and should never be intentionally extinguished. Coe's justifications just made matters worse. I also think more thought should be given to how the OC will play internationally. Relatively speaking, however, many other things went very, very well. I do look forward to Rio and a sunny, warm, carefree celebration. It will be a great cultural contrast. I just hope they deliver technically. For now, I'm optimistic. Although Rio needs to learn from previous hosts, I hope they just do their OWN thing. In some areas their choices may parallel other hosts, but that doesn't make them copy cats. After all, they will be hosting the XXXIst Olympiad. True originality in every facet of organization is probably not a reasonable goal. And I hope they do their own thing as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJPro Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 HJ Pro is annoying me slightly actually. A few of his posts today seem to do down Rio in an effort to boost London; something that is not only unnecessary given how huge a success our Games has been, but also not particularly nice to read. Tone it down a bit fella (I'm talking about posts like this one really - how can you know four years out Rio won't match London?). Anyway, don't want to get iinto an argument, but a few of your posts have come across that way. Thanks for letting me know, I didn't realise I was coming off that way. Caught up in the moment of the final stages of these amazing games! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkiFreak Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 These are my home games and nothing will be able to match them... :'( I had the same thoughts about Vancouver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul92 Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 Not sure if this has been posted yet. But the article contains information on the cauldron's design. http://www.dezeen.com/2012/07/31/london-2012-olympic-cauldron-by-thomas-heatherwick-model-and-drawings/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juso Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 They have already gone with the copy cat like logo. So I bet the cauldron will be something similar to Sydney, Barcelona or Athens. You can tell a lot from a logo! HJ, I know what it is like to have an olympic games change your life, it certainly happened for me, the spectator experience as a teenager in Sydney and as a volunteer changed my career objectives, my ambitions and crazily my understanding and faith in humanity. I have only been to two olympics, some my experience is limited, but I was lucky to have the host city experience in both (living in vancouver/edmonton in the lead up to vancouver) and both experiences were amazing each of reasons different and similar and are inseparable for me.. These were amazing olympics, every olympics is amazing, has that spark, that is why we are all affected by it, sometimes in unique details we rant on, but mostly for a passion we all share.. The london olympics from afar, have been phenomenal and virtually organisationally flawless, exceptional atmosphere with beautiful and sustainable venues... There will never be an olympics like it, because London 2012 is a reflection of not only the UK in this unique moment in time but also to some small degree, a reflection of the planet as whole at this moment too. The olympics are not the be all and end all, but as a global event at the bottom most rung of the ladder of world history they have become an important footnote that takes a quick snapshot of a nation and a planets' mood. This is why comparison on an overall level of a games for me is impossible, especially if one excludes their personal biases, they each make a statement they each stand for a different time. London's games will inspire a generation, just like sydney defined a city and country at the dawn of a new millennium or barcelona brought a nation and city on the world stage or vancouver that saw a country and people clear some cliches and push to be understood better in the world. Maybe other people think this is all wank, but for me this is the reason that the games rise above all the negative elements of their staging: abuse of public funds, doping and bribery. I promise to keep my posts much shorter this week, but the short story is, London was great, but we always have try to keep our biases in check and (for me too) our criticisms relative, measured and not too nit picky. We don't always succeed, I definitely don't, especially in my head. I am not a seb coe, or a danny boyle, nor claim to be, these gifted people give us new olympics that each challenge what has gone before and challenge our thoughts of what an olympics can be.... Do I nit pick analyse and speak my mind, yes, but like everyone else here, I do it to better understand how I feel about these things, not to rubbish anyone or anything. If I am ever lucky enough to ever be involved operationally in a OCOG or creatively in a ceremony, my choices will be a direct result of this process, if not, then they will stand as a pretentious example of my insane obsession with the olympics, to anyone who will listen... My point after all this is, if I can start a topic accepting that the beautiful symbolism of heatherwick's cauldron could start a new trend in cauldron style, even if I don't know if I really like it, then I think everyone else can try to avoid rubbishing everything that has gone before in terms of logos and cauldrons as copying and uninspired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 Australian Fan, I sincerely thank you for your gracious post. Although I was disappointed to hear you found LA's cauldron wanting, that did not motivate my recent posts. I greatly appreciate the tone of your last post. I value your diplomatic efforts and your sincere attempt to understand me. I am happy to let bygones be bygones. I concede I put more energy into this thread in the last day or so than I should have. I will do my best to dial down the intensity. I wish you all the best. Onwards and upwards..... Athensfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJPro Posted August 11, 2012 Report Share Posted August 11, 2012 HJ, I know what it is like to have an olympic games change your life, it certainly happened for me, the spectator experience as a teenager in Sydney and as a volunteer changed my career objectives, my ambitions and crazily my understanding and faith in humanity. I have only been to two olympics, some my experience is limited, but I was lucky to have the host city experience in both (living in vancouver/edmonton in the lead up to vancouver) and both experiences were amazing each of reasons different and similar and are inseparable for me.. These were amazing olympics, every olympics is amazing, has that spark, that is why we are all affected by it, sometimes in unique details we rant on, but mostly for a passion we all share.. The london olympics from afar, have been phenomenal and virtually organisationally flawless, exceptional atmosphere with beautiful and sustainable venues... There will never be an olympics like it, because London 2012 is a reflection of not only the UK in this unique moment in time but also to some small degree, a reflection of the planet as whole at this moment too. The olympics are not the be all and end all, but as a global event at the bottom most rung of the ladder of world history they have become an important footnote that takes a quick snapshot of a nation and a planets' mood. This is why comparison on an overall level of a games for me is impossible, especially if one excludes their personal biases, they each make a statement they each stand for a different time. London's games will inspire a generation, just like sydney defined a city and country at the dawn of a new millennium or barcelona brought a nation and city on the world stage or vancouver that saw a country and people clear some cliches and push to be understood better in the world. Maybe other think this is all wank, but for me this is the reason olympic games rises above all the negative elements of their staging: abuse of public funds, doping and bribery. I promise to keep my posts much shorter this week, but the short story is, London was great, but we always have try to keep our biases in check and (for me too) our criticisms relative, measured and not too nit picky. We don't always succeed, I definitely don't, especially in my head. I am not a seb coe, or a danny boyle, nor claim to be, these gifted people give us new olympics that each challenge what has gone before and challenge our thoughts of what an olympics can be.... Do I nit pick analyse and speak my mind, yes, but like everyone else here, I do it to better understand how I feel about these things, not to rubbish anyone or anything. If I am ever lucky enough to ever be involved operationally in a OCOG or creatively in a ceremony, my choices will be a direct result of this process, if not, then they will stand as a pretentious example of my insane obsession with the olympics, to anyone who will listen... My point after all this is, if I can start a topic accepting that the beautiful symbolism of heatherwick's cauldron could start a new trend in cauldron style, even if I don't know if I really like it, then I think everyone else can try to avoid rubbishing everything that has gone before in terms of logos and cauldrons as copying and uninspired. Well said, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympian2004 Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 OK, maybe we should return to the original topic. Juso's question was whether the "204 petals" Heatherwick cauldron concept could be a precedent for future cauldrons. And I'd say: No. It would be far too obvious if any host repeated that very creative and unique "we give every host nation a part of the cauldron" concept. It would feel stale - just like Beijing's idea of staging yet another global torch relay, although that was an idea that was fitting only for the Athens Games, being staged in the country that gave birth to the Olympic Games. I'm certain that future cauldron designers will find creative and innovative concepts of their own. A cauldron doesn't have to be a "take a piece with you as souvenir" thing in order to be an inspiring symbol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 I think there's something to be said for simplicity. If too many hosts give in to the temptation to try to outdo each other, we're going to get a lot of very strange, overly contrived cauldrons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul92 Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 I think there's something to be said for simplicity. If too many hosts give in to the temptation to try to outdo each other, we're going to get a lot of very strange, overly contrived cauldrons. Or over complicated cauldrons which don't work correctly on the night. *Cough* Sydney *Cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympian2004 Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Since we are such cauldron maniacs, I created a new thread for Rio 2016 so that we can continue our discussion there when there's nothing to discuss about the London cauldron anymore. I also picked up HJPro's guess there that Rio will build a tower: Rio 2016 Olympic Cauldron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juso Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Or over complicated cauldrons which don't work correctly on the night. *Cough* Sydney *Cough* yep thank god the motherland showed colonies how to do it right yeah? not to start a pissing war, it was crap that both those things happened in Sydney and Vancouver, and I agree with elegant alternatives like athens.... But I rather have an overcomplicated cauldron that didn't work 100% than and overcomplicated one than gets doused and moved after the show and relit on a cherry picker.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Rio will be TOTALLY, TOTALLY different. They will build an underground cavern where the first underground Olymipc cauldron can be seen by all who visit the cave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juso Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 I think a rio cauldron with a pressure suspended flame on the inside of a 3d representation/sculpture of the rio logo would be interesting...... (if technically and safely achievable) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nacholympic Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Rio will be TOTALLY, TOTALLY different. They will build an underground cavern where the first underground Olymipc cauldron can be seen by all who visit the cave! Anyway Rio heavily beat Chicago!!! Don't remember yet, Mr??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympian2004 Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Anyone know what's happening in the Stadium today as far as Cauldron and Closing Ceremony preparations ? Haven't found anything about that yet, neither on Google News nor on Twitter. I guess the media are shut out the stadium today in order to #savethesurprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympian2004 Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Thanks to the Eurovision links barrack has posted in the Canadian announcer thread (I should have known those Eurovision livestreams earlier! *grrrr*), I found a livestream of the Olympic Stadium viewed from the Orbit. It's live feed 01 on this page, and there's also a live feed of the cauldron (feed number 06): http://www.eurovisionsports.tv/london2012/index.html?video_id=1303 I hope you can view it. Otherwise, I've taken two screenshots: That shows that the cauldron will apparently not be moved back to the centre of the infield, that's the location for the big stage instead. You can recognise the cauldron still burning at the left side inside the stadium, in that gate where it burned during the past two weeks. In the left of the cauldron close-up, you can also still see the stadium's roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevzz Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Oh dear, it seems like I missed out on all these drama by not reading the thread in the 2 weeks before the ceremony. Kiss and make up? I couldn't open the webcam link as I'm in Australia but thanks for the photos Olympian2004. Makes it interesting then if the Cauldron will have enough space to radiate downward so that the Cauldron petals are given back to the competing nations during the Closing Ceremony. Maybe there is sufficient space where it is now for the stems to come down again, or they may have taken out some seats out on either side since the atheltics competition ended. Another question is will the petals remain on the Cauldron, cleaned after the CC and then given to a representative from each the nation after it is all over? I dont know if copper blackens when in prolonged contact with flame but I should think those petals might be a bit dirty to handle after the flame is turned off and they have cooled down (?) I don't think they will dismantle each petals in the ceremony and hand it out to them live. Surely they need to be cleaned and give a good scrub and polish? I wouldn't want that sooty thing like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympian2004 Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 Maybe it's true what I read on Twitter - that they'll extinguish the cauldron with a giant teapot. That would solve at least the cooling problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympian2004 Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 AustralianFan, you should not make the mistake of excluding any possibilities again. Therefore, I wouldn't strike out my paragraph about the relocation of the cauldron completely. Who knows - maybe they have some mechanism that allows the cauldron to be slided at least slightly forward this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevzz Posted August 12, 2012 Report Share Posted August 12, 2012 If the rumours that the elusive Kate Bush is performing are true, I really like her to get ready standing inside in the middle of the sticks, and when the cauldron radiates down, she will be revealed and starts singing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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