Rio-2016 News

[Athensfan]

Do you know how many people have electricity in Rio? (99.5% btw)

Do you know how much the running water and sewage treatment grew in the last 10 years? From 65% of Rio people to 80%.

Do you know how many people live in the so-worried favelas? 15% in Rio.

What else you want to discuss?

Go worry about the money of your government, leave Brazil to Brazilians

"One fifth of the population lacks running water and basic sanitation, but let's spend billions on the Olympics instead. They can wait a while longer. They'll be fine. No room for criticism here!"

[zekekelso]

So, Athens, how do you feel about a RSA bid?

[MrCatra]

Almost one year without vising this website and today after the WC I thought about the Olympics and remembered game bids...

I come here just to read athensfans is still spouting the same BS he hid in the past. Pathetic.

I still remember when he said WC stadiums would be empty because brazilians had no money to buy the tickets. Actually he was quoting a moronic lawyer from an obscure newspaper. Same crap.

Now, the funny part is that this dude worried about how Brazil spends its' money is the same dude that have a sig and username praising the Athens game, the 2nd worse in modern history, trailing only Atlanta 96. But the irony is that Greece still suffering the economic consequences of those Games, because they were a small country that would not be viable hosters.

Athens 2004 cost ~7% of Greece's annual GDP at the time. Rio 2016 wont even reach the 1% mark, lol.

btw, back in 1999, years prior to the games, 18% of greeks households had not running water. Around 9% of all households (and 25% of low-income households) lacked direct access to a bath or shower (Eurostat, 1998).

Talk about hipocrisy...

PS: Millions of american have not access to running water right now. Anyways, this has nothing to do with the Olympics. It would be a valid discussion prior for the citizens pior to the bid campaign now that discussion doesn't have a place. Bringing things like this to a thread called "Rio-2016 news" just show either ignorance or downright trolling.

Too bad gamesbids lacks moderation to keep this trolling controlled. Since there are no moderators this pathetic dude can still explicit his personal frustrations on this forum on daily basis.

[Athensfan]

So, Athens, how do you feel about a RSA bid?

I'd love to see SA host, but not at the expense of addressing more pressing needs. I am concerned that unless the IOC reduces the scale of the Games, Durban would struggle mightily with both deadlines and financial burdens of hosting. I do question whether it would be responsible for Durban to bid at this time and whether it would be responsible for the IOC to award them the Games.

[Athensfan]

Incidentally, the same goes for any city. Some people on these boards insist on seeing the right to host the Games as an unqualified honor, a glitzy golden trophy. There is a sense in which that may be true, but more importantly the Games are a burden -- a very long list of major demands that must be met. EVERY city needs to ask if the Games are the best catalyst for growth and development at a given time. There is no shame in answering "no." NYC said no.

As for Rio, the Games will happen and we hope they are successful, but I sympathize with the protesters who feel the government's priorities are askew.

[Athensfan]

For the record, 0.64% of US residents lack plumbing for running water. It is a problem and it is being addressed, but 0.64% is a heck of a lot better than 20%.

[paul]

Why should Brazil divert additional games funds to public projects that won't improve the party they took on? The Brazilian economy seems to be stagnating a bit so overspending at this point isn't prudent, they need to be careful.....you can't do everything. They must be spending a fortune on military style police and pacification already, and some other improvements their government sees as necessary before the party rolls in. They likely already spend (like the US) a disproportionate amount of gdp on public assistance. You can only do so much for people before they have to take responsibility for themselves, and if you do too much it just becomes a growing entitlement problem that can overwhelm the biggest and strongest economies (looking at you USA). And I think the favelas in Rio are a legitimate lifestyle that can probably be a very beautiful and happy life, the location and cost for people who don't have the means for more is maybe unparalleled.

I mean look how beautiful this is....

And to be honest it's Brazils problem not the Olympics, we're just going to hit Rio for a couple week, don't tell me you will be revisiting Rio to check on the water flow levels in the favelas in spring of 2017.

[Athensfan]

Tell me, Paul, if you were born into a favela, how exactly would you "take responsibility for yourself" and get running water into your home?

I am not suggesting Olympic funds should be diverted. That ship has sailed. Now they have to spend whatever it takes just to make the deadline.

I am saying the government's priorities are questionable, as is the IOC's inflated sense of self-importance that allows them to justify holding their extravagant party in places with much more pressing needs.

[Athensfan]

Landscapes are lovely, no doubt about it. Just don't think about what life is like for some of the people who have to actually live in them. The distance shots don't show you that.

And just because the rest of the world is too self-absorbed to care about the poverty-stricken once the circus leaves town, does that mean their own government should turn a blind eye too?

[paul]

...well if we have to clean up Detroit before we get to host another Olympic it'll be USA 2-thousand-NEVER.

[Tony E Loves Architecture]

The thing that gets on my nerves, is that whenever the slightest bit of criticism goes Brazil's way, those people are called anti-Brazilian. It's not true. ALL HOSTS have felt criticism and praise. When Tokyo Bid, People criticised the Fukushima. The Japanese People never said, oh your anti-Japanese. They backed up their argument or accepted criticism, which is the correct way of going about it. Russia will get criticism during the build up to the 2018 Fifa World Cup. Guess what, when Hosting an event, part of the package is praise and criticism, especially if Your so delayed in preparations. Rio 2016 is more delayed then Athens 2004 was. What do you expect? Us Olympic fans to just not worry? Us Olympic fans not show our concern? The Media not do their job? ALL Media will always report the worst of EVERYTHING. This is GamesBids Forums. This Forum is about Sporting Events. All of us on here enjoy and love Sporting Events. We all want Sporting Events to be the best they possibly can. If preparations are delayed like Rio 2016 is, we will show our concern.

[ofan]

I think South Americans are just naturally very passionate and stubborn.

Edited July 15, 2014 by ofan97

[Daze]

Thank you Paul! That´s what I meant few pages ago. Imagine the last picture with the lights of the first.

I

[DannyelBrazil]

Why not give some credit to those who live in the country you are so interested to discuss?

About 20 years ago, more than 50% of Rio de Janeiro did not have running water. We are getting to numbers near 10% soon.

Unless magic does exist, what I see is: the problem has been addressed, right?

You won't fix a city with so many challenges, like Rio or any other emerging country big city in a couple of years, that's ridiculous.

Athensfan loves to get a picture of a single moment to spread his "concerns" over Brazil.

Get the entire movie and watch how Brazil have been developing for the last 20-30 years.

BTW, Athensfan, since you are so "worried" about life quality in general in Rio, how can you explain that among 126 districts of RIo de Janeiro city, no one, AGAIN, NONE, is placed even in "medium level HDI".

The bottom 25 is considered high level, and all other are very high level, how can be?! (The lowest one is Complexo do Alemão favela with 0.711).

No to mention 28 districts are 0.900+ HDI index level (comparable to rich countries).

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anexo:Lista_de_bairros_do_Rio_de_Janeiro_por_IDH

Update your factbook, Athensfan...

I think South Americans are just naturally very passionate and stubborn.

Passionate yes.

Stubborn are those discussing with South Americans about South America, a place South Americans, for some reason, knows better than "those stubborns".

Why should Brazil divert additional games funds to public projects that won't improve the party they took on? The Brazilian economy seems to be stagnating a bit so overspending at this point isn't prudent, they need to be careful.....you can't do everything. They must be spending a fortune on military style police and pacification already, and some other improvements their government sees as necessary before the party rolls in. They likely already spend (like the US) a disproportionate amount of gdp on public assistance. You can only do so much for people before they have to take responsibility for themselves, and if you do too much it just becomes a growing entitlement problem that can overwhelm the biggest and strongest economies (looking at you USA). And I think the favelas in Rio are a legitimate lifestyle that can probably be a very beautiful and happy life, the location and cost for people who don't have the means for more is maybe unparalleled.

And to be honest it's Brazils problem not the Olympics, we're just going to hit Rio for a couple week, don't tell me you will be revisiting Rio to check on the water flow levels in the favelas in spring of 2017.

Only to add to this good post is macroeconomis is doing bad in the last 2 or 3 years, but microeconomics had been great to Brazilian people, low unemployment, people living under poverty line almost vanishing for complete, more and more yougsters attending University....

The thing is: Brazil could do all of this much better (specially public services) and quicker... That is what annoys us, Brazilians. <--- Before you guys come again with 2013 protests stuff.

But this is not a matter of lack of money. This is about an obsolete politic system and even more obsolete bureaucracy system.

Edited July 15, 2014 by DannyelBrazil

[Athensfan]

...well if we have to clean up Detroit before we get to host another Olympic it'll be USA 2-thousand-NEVER.

Detroit is not a favela.

[Athensfan]

Danny, we all know that in your book Brazil can do no wrong. There have definitely been major strides forward. No one would contest that. It would be nice to see a clearer picture of how hosting the Olympics and World Cup is helping Brazil continue to move forward rather than interrupting progress.

[DannyelBrazil]

Detroit is not a favela.

But it's more violent than Rio (a city full of favelas, as you think).

Rio's murder rate: 29/100,000 people (2012)

Detroit's murder rate: 54/100,000 people (2013)

http://www.estadao.com.br/noticias/geral,taxa-de-homicidios-dolosos-no-rio-avancou-16-7-em-2013,1135485

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2013/10/22/detroit-again-tops-list-of-most-dangerous-cities-but-crime-rate-dips/

Danny, we all know that in your book Brazil can do no wrong. There have definitely been major strides forward. No one would contest that. It would be nice to see a clearer picture of how hosting the Olympics and World Cup is helping Brazil continue to move forward rather than interrupting progress.

Probably hosting World Cup and Olympic games are not helping much improve Brazil quality of life.

The programmes for it were under way much before we were awarded those events. And the programmes runned at same pace, despite of them.

And nobody ever claimed (politicians apart) that Olympic Games would give people running water or sewage treatment (some Treatment Plants are part of Olympic Plan, tho).

Infra-strucure yes. World Cup helped a lot, boosted projects even to be done in future like the Campinas International Airport or the link Barra-Airport in Rio...

And the Olympic Games will "give" Rio a new subway line, an entire BRT system, a new port area, at least 4 new major highways.............

I was talking with a colleague at work and we agreed that, at this pace, Brazil will be a reasonable nice country to live in 50 years or so...

We have our pace to do things, Athensfan, for the good or the evil. And Brazil is like this. It's not Olympic Games or World Cup that will change an entire nation mentality. You know that.

Edited July 15, 2014 by DannyelBrazil

[Athensfan]

But it's more violent than Rio (a city full of favelas, as you think).

Rio's murder rate: 29/100,000 people (2012)

Detroit's murder rate: 54/100,000 people (2013)

http://www.estadao.com.br/noticias/geral,taxa-de-homicidios-dolosos-no-rio-avancou-16-7-em-2013,1135485

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2013/10/22/detroit-again-tops-list-of-most-dangerous-cities-but-crime-rate-dips/

What does that have to do with the price of eggs? Violence, while often correlated to lower income, does not have a simple financial solution. Lack of running water and basic sanitation has a simple financial solution. If we'd just do away with the stupid second amendment (and it IS stupid), that would help.

And no, I do not think Rio is a "city full of favelas." I think that there is a pronounced stratification of Brazilian society (this is a problem in many other countries too), meaning there is a wealthy upper class and extremely poor lower class.

[DannyelBrazil]

And just because the rest of the world is too self-absorbed to care about the poverty-stricken once the circus leaves town, does that mean their own government should turn a blind eye too?

The government have been doing more about favelas than the rest of population, be sure.. Medium class people in Rio were complaining they pay a lot of taxes and people in favela gets more attention...

What does that have to do with the price of eggs? Violence, while often correlated to lower income, does not have a simple financial solution. Lack of running water and basic sanitation has a simple financial solution. If we'd just do away with the stupid second amendment (and it IS stupid), that would help.

And no, I do not think Rio is a "city full of favelas." I think that there is a pronounced stratification of Brazilian society (this is a problem in many other countries too), meaning there is a wealthy upper class and extremely poor lower class.

Lack or running water needs time to be completed, specially in dense areas.

Rio is a massive city, not a American-suburban-like city.

As I told you, 20 years ago, more than half of Rio did not had running water. The number are over 80% now. There is no magic.

And the favelas "problem" is something that will take maybe a century to solve, specially because people who live there does not want to leave it...

[Athensfan]

Here is what I am saying: as something of an idealist, I would like to all governments put the needs of their citizens first. If Olympic Games are not going to have any positive impact on the life of the citizens and are going to cost billions of dollars, why host them? Every host needs to develop a plan for the Games that genuinely benefits the people. Hosting the Games must make sense. The size and glamour of the two-week party does not justify the expense (no matter what Vladimir thinks on that subject). There must be real payoff.

So far it is not clear to me what the payoff is for the people of Brazil. I hope that becomes clearer as time goes on.

[DannyelBrazil]

Here is what I am saying: as something of an idealist, I would like to all governments put the needs of their citizens first. If Olympic Games are not going to have any positive impact on the life of the citizens and are going to cost billions of dollars, why host them? Every host needs to develop a plan for the Games that genuinely benefits the people. Hosting the Games must make sense. The size and glamour of the two-week party does not justify the expense (no matter what Vladimir thinks on that subject). There must be real payoff.

So far it is not clear to me what the payoff is for the people of Brazil. I hope that becomes clearer as time goes on.

This is something I totally agree with you: The games costs too much for a 2 week party.

About how the Olympic Games can work for Brazil. If the games only helps Brazil tourism like the World Cup did, it's already something people from the lowest class to the richer ones will benefit.

Hostels are popping in favelas (since foreigners seems to be very interested about it - not personal) and lots of youngsters are attending tourism classes in University hoping Brazil could do better about it.

Brazil barely received 5 million foreign tourists in 2013, that's nothing compared to other destinations.

Somehow, Brazil is a very unknown country. Not few people think we live in forests huts or we speak Spanish...

For the 7th biggest economy of the planet, 5th most populated country, we should be more known, indeed, this is good for business.

Not only that, Brazilians still something that annoys me a lot called "the underdog complex". The World Cup killed it for who knows how much time. Brazilians should believe the country can do things. Brazil can have 100% running water, for example. People should stop complaining in facebook and work for a better country.

About this I'm not an ordinary Brazilian about it. I'm too optimistic. Brazilians are not.

Somehow, you expect something "material" from Olympic Games, new infra-structure for Rio will be there, and that's major, but apart of this, there not "material" things that can be a nice legacy from OGs.

The first favela of Rio, Morro da Providência, in Port Area, is under a pilot project for reubanization and improvements

And the favela now even got a lift, who link the favela to train/subway station and future LRT station in Port

[Athensfan]

I understand not all benefits are material.

As others have pointed out, tourism usually drops around the Olympics. Yes, people come for the Games, but they usually stay away before and after. The net effect is an overall decrease. It's possible that the long-term picture may improve, but this is not guaranteed and it's difficult to prove that an increase over several years is directly tied to the Olympics.

One also has to ask how big an increase in tourism is needed to justify spending billions on the Games.

As for infrastructure improvements, I enjoy the pictures you post. Clearly there are done nice new projects are underway. I do wonder of these how many of these really required Rio to host the Olympic Games before they could proceed.

All I'm saying is that the the host gets the short end of the stick when it comes to hosting Olympics. In some cases, (London, Tokyo) the host is so strong that they can absorb the expense of the Games without much suffering, in others (Beijing, Sochi) the governments don't care if the people suffer and do their best to conceal reality because they're just out to make a statement, in others (Montreal, Athens, possibly Rio, possibly Durban) the Games come with a visibly high, painful price for the people.

Every city who bids needs to clearly think through how they can make the Games work for them. When all is said and done, I hope Brazil is genuinely better off for having gone to all the trouble of hosting the World Cup and Olympics.

[Sir Rols]

As for infrastructure improvements, I enjoy the pictures you post. Clearly there are done nice new projects are underway. I do wonder of these how many of these really required Rio to host the Olympic Games before they could proceed.

You can say that for every city, though. One of the benefits surely for an Olympics in any nation or city is that it finally gives that kick-start to infrastructure improvements that have long since been considered vital or desirable, but have for any number of reasons - be it bureacratic inertia, lack of political will or political cowardice, NIMBY roadblocks or having to choose from a variety of spending varieties - never get off the ground or only progress gracially. That goes for the Sydneys, Vancouvers or Londons of the world as much as the Athens' or Rios.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Sir Rols

[Athensfan]

You can say that for every city, though. One of the benefits surely for an Olympics in any nation or city is that it finally gives that kick-start to infrastructure improvements that have long since been considered vital or desirable, but have for any number of reasons - be it bureacratic inertia, lack of political will or political cowardice, NIMBY roadblocks or having to choose from a variety of spending varieties - never get off the ground or only progress gracially. That goes for the Sydneys, Vancouvers or Londons of the world as much as the Athens' or Rios.

Of course. But surely some of those projects would have happened anyway or would have happened a little bit later.

[Sir Rols]

Of course. But surely some of those projects would have happened anyway or would have happened a little bit later.

Sure, but's wrong with it if an event likes the Olympics get them fast-tracked?