Swimming Finals Might Be Held In The Morning

[arwebb]

If they do, it will create uproar. What would happen if the EBU wanted to show the 100 metres final in primetime? Would the organisers stage it at two or three in the morning local time? And yet, you could find such requests being made if the cat is let out of the bag here. It's ridiculous and the IOC should stamp on it.

[DrunkWithBode]

If they do, it will create uproar. What would happen if the EBU wanted to show the 100 metres final in primetime? Would the organisers stage it at two or three in the morning local time? And yet, you could find such requests being made if the cat is let out of the bag here. It's ridiculous and the IOC should stamp on it.

That's not a very good comparison. Staging a final in the late morning hours (10 or 11 AM) is a heck of a lot more feasable than staging a final at two or three in the morning. NBC was in such a situation with Athens and Barcelona, but they wouldn't have dared ask for live finals at 2 or 3 AM European time. I don't think it's such an incredible travesty that swimmers might be asked to swim at 10 or 11 in the morning.

However, I do agree with you that it would probably be best if NBC dropped this. I don't really care about the complaints of Australian or European viewers (we've been dealing with tape delay in the US for years), but if it is going to cause this much of an uproar within the swimming community, then it shouldn't be done. Period.

There are plenty of sports that NBC could air in primetime without significantly altering the schedule (rowing, diving, basketball, maybe gymnastics). And I don't think that live swimming will boost their ratings all that much.

[arwebb]

Whether or not you think it's a good comparison is irrelevant. The point I was making still stands. Why should Olympic athletes feel they are not getting the conditions conducive to peak performances just to suit television? It doesn't wash.

[micheal_warren]

Whether or not you think it's a good comparison is irrelevant. The point I was making still stands. Why should Olympic athletes feel they are not getting the conditions conducive to peak performances just to suit television? It doesn't wash.

this out from gamesbids.com website

Leaked Draft Report Shows Beijing 2008 Events In A.M.

Posted 2:57 pm ET (GamesBids.com)

While it has not received final approval, a leaked draft report obtained by the Herald Sun that has been circulated to national Olympic committees and international broadcasters, confirms that the swimming finals and the artistic finals in gymnastics will be held in the morning.

According to the schedule the swimming finals will be raced at 10 a.m. in Beijing and the artistic finals in gymnastics will be held in the late morning and not in its traditional evening time slot, reports the newspaper.

A source said, “this is so unfair on Chinese fans and athletes and is simply satisfying American television audiences”.

Meanwhile the men’s basketball final is also slotted for the morning in Beijing and diving events have been scheduled for 1:30 local time. Track cycling, traditionally a nighttime Olympic highlight, has been scheduled to begin at 4:30 p.m. reports the newspaper.

The newspaper says European broadcasters have threatened to sue the International Olympic Committee (IOC) if they rubber stamp the changes and Australian rights-holder Channel 7 said it will use a series of high-level talks in Beijing next week to convince the IOC to reconsider the schedule.

it looks like NBC is going to get their own way afterall!

[Faster]

I love events in Europe because of the timing.

For the events to be held in PT in the EST they would have to go from 7 to 10am in Beijing. Thats stupid.

[DrunkWithBode]

I love events in Europe because of the timing.

For the events to be held in PT in the EST they would have to go from 7 to 10am in Beijing. Thats stupid.

There's a twelve hour time difference, and NBC typically doesn't air the biggest events until after 10 PM EST. So, we're probably talking about 10 or 11 AM starts for these races in Beijing.

Realistically, how is this going to affect attendance? I hate to sound ignorant on the subject, but how free would Beijingers be to attend daytime weekday events if they had enough money to do so? In a country of over a billion people, where this is clearly one of *the* most important and anticipated events in the country's modern history, is attendance really going to suffer?

[Infinite_Olympics]

I have no problem with this, but also I was fine with tape-delay during the Athens Olympics on the networks of NBC, because it allowed me to watch the Olympics continously throughout the days, thanks to live events aired on the cable networks from 2am-4pm and then tape delayed events thereafter.

It will be cool to see these events live, though.

[olympikfan]

I have no problem with this, but also I was fine with tape-delay during the Athens Olympics on the networks of NBC, because it allowed me to watch the Olympics continously throughout the days, thanks to live events aired on the cable networks from 2am-4pm and then tape delayed events thereafter.

It will be cool to see these events live, though.

The rating were low for 2000 and 2004 when NBC paid billions of dollars for the TV rights, the IOC is going to listen to NBC. Besides if where is most of the money coming from.

[baron-pierreIV]

The rating were low for 2000 and 2004 when NBC paid billions of dollars for the TV rights, the IOC is going to listen to NBC. Besides if where is most of the money coming from.

Agreed. I really don't see what the brouhaha is about. I mean they're only athletes. Not quite brain surgeons or genetics researchers that would mean a great loss in service to humanity. I mean give or take a couple of seconds -- who cares? I don't even care whether it's a World or Olympic Record. WHoever wins, that's fine. After all, there are going to be like, what? 130 events contested? So -- get on with it already. Besides, the morning's better. Those athletes shouldn't be out partying anyway.

[arwebb]

Since when have you ever been bothered about the most important aspect of the Olympic Games - the sport?

Why the hell should the schedules be ripped to pieces just to suit the schedules of ONE broadcaster? Why should the other broadcasters round the world stand for it? And why on Earth should athletes who deserve better than your drivel be left feeling as though their feelings don't count for anything? If this is confirmed, the IOC hierarchy needs to take a long hard look at itself and work out if it is actually competent in its job.

[Lee]

Since when have you ever been bothered about the most important aspect of the Olympic Games - the sport?

Why the hell should the schedules be ripped to pieces just to suit the schedules of ONE broadcaster? Why should the other broadcasters round the world stand for it? And why on Earth should athletes who deserve better than your drivel be left feeling as though their feelings don't count for anything? If this is confirmed, the IOC hierarchy needs to take a long hard look at itself and work out if it is actually competent in its job.

Well said, this is the kind of shi t that really winds me up.

How on earth can you make such a change to suit just 1 country. The IOC should be ashamed....fuc king useless.

[micheal_warren]

Well said, this is the kind of shi t that really winds me up.

How on earth can you make such a change to suit just 1 country. The IOC should be ashamed....fuc king useless.

i agree fully with you!!!!!!!

[NOC]

My contacts tell me that BOCOG are FURIOUS about this change. They have delayed puting out the schedule and event pricing (due in July) because of this delay by the IOC.

As a cop out, the IOC will be discussing it with the broadcasters meeting next week, and all hell is going to break loose.

BOCOG will get their way, NBC wont, the World wont let them.

[Guest ChiIn2016]

I would hope that the games schedule would not be dictated by a television network. NBCs coverage of events is always edited (and screwed up) IMO. Let the games schedule hold to tradition and be enjoyed by the athletes and the host city which won the bid.

[Sir Rols]

I don't really care about the complaints of Australian or European viewers (we've been dealing with tape delay in the US for years)

And so have we _ but we don't whinge about it and try to get the times changed to suit us. That's the point, the games move around and at any one time, two thirds of the world have to accomodate their lives to watch events out of their time zone. For those of us in the same time zone, it's a bonus _ it doesn't happen all the time and that's one of the big incentives to want to have such events in our time zones.

Actually, a correction. We haven't been dealing with tape delay because we simply DON'T do it. What is it about US viewers that they can't cope with the idea of switching on their TVs outside of evening prime time to watch events? That's part of the fun of watching the games. We broadcast the games live whatever time their on, and if our athletes have a good chance in an event that's being broadcast at 3am the keen ones wake up to watch it live. And if we win, we watch it and watch it and watch it again throughout the next day. It actually works to get the viewership up the next evening for highlights as well _ there's no better advertisement for olympics coverage than to go into work in the morning and get greeted by comments like: ""Did you get up to watch Thorpie's win last night? It was amazing!''. It seems to only be Americans (or rather, the scheduling execuitives in NBC) who seem to think that if an event falls outside of 7pm-11pm US eastern time nobody is going to watch. Then they complain that viewer numbers are down for their tape delays because people already know the results off the internet, or Canadian TV, or whatever. Well, hello!, why not actually broadcast the events for once live for those who are really keen, and then you can use the highlights in promos during the day to get people's interest up for the night's highlights. It just might actually be better marketing than trying to enforce an artificial and unworkeable news blackout.

Anyway, as has been pointed out time and time again on this thread, the comfort and convenience of couch potatoes in whatever particular segment of the world should be way down the list of considerations when scheduling events anyway. At the end of the day, for an organisation that trumpets so much that their decisions and choices are supposed to be in the best interests of the athletes, the IOC should be heeding what the athletes say in this matter.

[DrunkWithBode]

Actually, a correction. We haven't been dealing with tape delay because we simply DON'T do it. What is it about US viewers that they can't cope with the idea of switching on their TVs outside of evening prime time to watch events? That's part of the fun of watching the games. We broadcast the games live whatever time their on, and if our athletes have a good chance in an event that's being broadcast at 3am the keen ones wake up to watch it live. And if we win, we watch it and watch it and watch it again throughout the next day. It actually works to get the viewership up the next evening for highlights as well _ there's no better advertisement for olympics coverage than to go into work in the morning and get greeted by comments like: ""Did you get up to watch Thorpie's win last night? It was amazing!''. It seems to only be Americans (or rather, the scheduling execuitives in NBC) who seem to think that if an event falls outside of 7pm-11pm US eastern time nobody is going to watch. Then they complain that viewer numbers are down for their tape delays because people already know the results off the internet, or Canadian TV, or whatever. Well, hello!, why not actually broadcast the events for once live for those who are really keen, and then you can use the highlights in promos during the day to get people's interest up for the night's highlights. It just might actually be better marketing than trying to enforce an artificial and unworkeable news blackout.

The simple answer is that NBC pays nearly a billion dollars for each Olympics (far more than any other country in the world), and the only way for them to recoup the costs is to rake in big, big dollars in advertising revenue. Knowing that audiences are much larger at night, advertisers don't pay nearly as much money to advertise during the day. In other words, for NBC, it's all about promising advertisers that they can get as many primetime viewers as possible.

The way to do this, of course, is to hold the major events until primetime. If people know the outcome but haven't actually seen the event, many of them will tune in. If people know the outcome because they have already seen the event, not nearly as many will tune in during primetime. I don't like it, but it's a business model that works pretty well for NBC.

The World Cup, on the other hand is always shown live here. This year's games were all live, shown in the late morning and early afternoon, and 2002's games were also shown live in the middle of the night (starting at 2 AM EST). The networks involved (ESPN and ABC) can air the World Cup live because they pay a mere fraction of what NBC pays for the Olympics.

[Sir Rols]

The simple answer is that NBC pays nearly a billion dollars for each Olympics (far more than any other country in the world), and the only way for them to recoup the costs is to rake in big, big dollars in advertising revenue. Knowing that audiences are much larger at night, advertisers don't pay nearly as much money to advertise during the day. In other words, for NBC, it's all about promising advertisers that they can get as many primetime viewers as possible.

Of course, but it's their problem if they bid for and land the rights for the games before the hosts are chosen. When NBC bid for and won the rights for the games from 2008 up to 2012 they must have decided that the price they were willing to pay was a fair one even before they knew what time zone they were going to be in. If any of those games were in the American time zone, it would have been a big bonus. If not, well, that's the risk they took.

Anyway, you still didn't answer the big question _ why are Americans the only ones in the world who can't cope with the idea of watching events live no matter when they're held? Why does NBC think tape delay highlights are preferable to actually shopwing the events when they're happening then showing the highlights later on again in prime time? The live coverage model seems to affect ratings less in the Oz and European markets than the delay everything model does in the US. Why shouyld the comfort and laziness of Mr and Mrs Fat-Arsed Couch Potato in Wichita need to outweigh the needs of the the elite athlete wanting the conditions that help them produce their personal best in Europe or Asia.

Edited August 7, 2006 by roltel

[BTHarner]

NBC doesn't deserve any such favors. I find it ironic that they are trying to get the swimming finals switched for their convenience. How many times have you found any swimming competition on NBC since Athens. I don't believe I've seen any. Likewise with track and field, some, but not a great deal of coverage between Games. Yet as we get closer to the Games you see a zillion promos for these athletes who they ignore for four years.

[Sir Rols]

The argument that "The US (NBC) pays most for the rights so they are within their rights to dictate WHEN events should be held" is such a facetious one anyway. If you accept that, then you would have to also accept "NBC pays the most for the games, so they are within their rights to dictate WHERE the games are being held". That would solve everything _ no need for any country to campaign to the IOC to win the games, the decision only need be taken at NBC boardroom in NY whether this time around the games will go to a US East Coast or West Coast city.

It all comes down to what are the Olympic Games _ a gathering of the elite athletes of the world to compete in a spirit of friendship and togetherness to hopefully foster international cooperation, or a schedule filler designed to meet ther needs of the NBC programming department?

[olympikfan]

The argument that "The US (NBC) pays most for the rights so they are within their rights to dictate WHEN events should be held" is such a facetious one anyway. If you accept that, then you would have to also accept "NBC pays the most for the games, so they are within their rights to dictate WHERE the games are being held". That would solve everything _ no need for any country to campaign to the IOC to win the games, the decision only need be taken at NBC boardroom in NY whether this time around the games will go to a US East Coast or West Coast city.

It all comes down to what are the Olympic Games _ a gathering of the elite athletes of the world to compete in a spirit of friendship and togetherness to hopefully foster international cooperation, or a schedule filler designed to meet ther needs of the NBC programming department?

Over the years it has been ABC, NBC and CBS that have paid big bucks to the IOC. Think about the billions of dollars that they paid saved the Olympics from going in the toilet. What ever NBC wants they will get because they pay more than any other TV caster.

[Sir Rols]

Over the years it has been ABC, NBC and CBS that have paid big bucks to the IOC. Think about the billions of dollars that they paid saved the Olympics from going in the toilet. What ever NBC wants they will get because they pay more than any other TV caster.

So in other words, from now on the only needs that count are the convenience of the domestic USA TV audience, and the rest of the world, the athletes and the hosts can go to hell!

[micheal_warren]

Of course, but it's their problem if they bid for and land the rights for the games before the hosts are chosen. When NBC bid for and won the rights for the games from 2008 up to 2012 they must have decided that the price they were willing to pay was a fair one even before they knew what time zone they were going to be in. If any of those games were in the American time zone, it would have been a big bonus. If not, well, that's the risk they took.

Anyway, you still didn't answer the big question _ why are Americans the only ones in the world who can't cope with the idea of watching events live no matter when they're held? Why does NBC think tape delay highlights are preferable to actually shopwing the events when they're happening then showing the highlights later on again in prime time? The live coverage model seems to affect ratings less in the Oz and European markets than the delay everything model does in the US. Why shouyld the comfort and laziness of Mr and Mrs Fat-Arsed Couch Potato in Wichita need to outweigh the needs of the the elite athlete wanting the conditions that help them produce their personal best in Europe or Asia.

i agree with you it is absolute bullshit that the IOC are even contemplating this. NBC new where the games were going to be held so either but up with their time zone or dont bid for the rights

[DrunkWithBode]

Anyway, you still didn't answer the big question _ why are Americans the only ones in the world who can't cope with the idea of watching events live no matter when they're held? Why does NBC think tape delay highlights are preferable to actually shopwing the events when they're happening then showing the highlights later on again in prime time? The live coverage model seems to affect ratings less in the Oz and European markets than the delay everything model does in the US. Why shouyld the comfort and laziness of Mr and Mrs Fat-Arsed Couch Potato in Wichita need to outweigh the needs of the the elite athlete wanting the conditions that help them produce their personal best in Europe or Asia.

The problem here isn't that Americans are totally unwilling to tune in during odds hours. The problem is that NBC believes if they let viewers watch major events at odd hours, then those viewers won't tune back in to re-watch them in primetime. NBC doesn't care how many people tune in at 8 AM or 1 PM; their only concern is primetime 7:30 to midnight TV ratings. And to a certain extent, they're right. As much as I love the Olympics, if I've seen all the big events already, I'm not going to be quite as anxious to turn my TV on later that night to watch it all over again. As it is now, I ALWAYS make sure to be in front of my TV at 7:30, because I'm watching these events for the very first time. If I had already seen them, I'd still watch on most nights, but I wouldn't have the same type of "The Olympics are on, I'm not leaving the house" mentality.

Sports is a big business in the US. We saw the same thing with the World Series in baseball a few decades ago. Until the early 70's, EVERY World Series game was during the day. Then, major league baseball started playing most of the games at night for bigger TV ratings. And since 1985, every single World Series game has been at night. With network sports broadcasting being such a big business, the networks are all but forced to air everything at night when the audiences are largest.

Just to make things clear, I think that the IOC should say no to NBC for the athletes' sake. But from a pure broadcasting standpoint, with all of the money that NBC pays (even though they continually overbid for the Games without even knowing the host), they deserve to have a bone or two thrown their way every once in a while.

[Sir Rols]

Just to make things clear, I think that the IOC should say no to NBC for the athletes' sake. But from a pure broadcasting standpoint, with all of the money that NBC pays (even though they continually overbid for the Games without even knowing the host), they deserve to have a bone or two thrown their way every once in a while.

Fair enough, mate. It's good to get genuine debate going here.

I have no sympathy for NBC though. If they want to overbid just so someone else (Fox) doesn't sneak through to steal their "The Olympic Network" crown, it's their problem if they can't recoup their investment.

[Faster]

A COMBINED AUDIENCE OF CLOSE TO 25 BILLION PEOPLE WATCH THE OLMYPIC GAMES WHEN THEY COME AROUND, THEY AIN'T ALL AMERICANS, IN FACT VIEWERSHIP BY PRESENTATION IS MUCH LOWER IN THE UNITED STATES THEN IN THE NEXT 14 NATIONS. SO NBC CAN SHOVE IT UP THEIR UPTIGHT FCC-BOWING ARSE

Edited August 7, 2006 by Faster