Expo 2015

[Apple]

Expo 2015 bid heats up

Submission must be made by June 30; team still must convince each level of government it's a good idea

By ROB GRANATSTEIN, CITY HALL BUREAU

Toronto is set to Expo-se itself to the world on June 30.

That's the date the city's Expo 2015 bid team has targeted to submit its bid to the Bureau International des Expositions (BIE), followed by a huge Canada Day party in Paris on July 1.

"It's winnable," said Duncan Ross, Toronto's executive director of tourism.

In his discussion with BIE delegates -- the people who will vote on who is awarded the world's fair -- he said there's a lot of support for Toronto.

"The world wants to come back to North America," Ross said. "This is a huge opportunity for Toronto."

To get there, the city's bid team has 13 weeks of intense preparations, jumping through hoops and arm-twisting.

It must bring Prime Minister Stephen Harper onside and secure federal financial backing. Premier Dalton McGuinty and the province have to support it. Toronto city council also needs to approve the bid at its May meeting.

The bid team also must get the city's business community to contribute.

And starting today, the Expo team will begin rolling out the 11 studies it has been doing on aspects of the event such as transportation, picking a theme, economic feasibility and environmental management on its website (tedco.ca/2015expo.html).

Public consultations restart April 18 at Ryerson.

"If the public doesn't get as excited as we are, there's no point in going forward," said Expo bid chairman Brian Ashton.

It's fairly clear the consultants will advise the Expo team to build the bid around a Portlands site, rather than a joint Portlands-Island Airport or Downsview location.

The theme will centre around the human connections and bridging those through technology, although it still must be refined.

Staging an Expo would cost about $5 billion, including new transit lines, cleaning up the Portlands, building the pavilions, creating a showpiece landmark and more.

It's estimated a fair will generate $1 billion in revenue, $4 billion in tax revenue and $6.8 billion in tourism spending, but a Price Waterhouse report on finances will offer more solid numbers later this month.

Ashton heads to Paris this weekend to make sure the BIE is fully aware of how serious Toronto is about its bid.

The main competition so far, Izmir, Turkey, already had the chairman of the BIE to its city. Ashton called Izmir a third-rank city in Turkey.

A lot has changed since Toronto lost its bid to host the 2000 World's Fair by one vote. There are now 98 member countries, each with one vote, up from 48 in 2000. Those new members are largely from Asia and the Americas.

Ashton called that an advantage for Toronto, as well as our geographic position, within a one-day's drive of 68 million people.

"If you can't get people to Toronto to a world's fair, shame on you," he said.

A decision by the BIE will be made in February 2008.

---

WORLD FAIRS LEAVE A LASTING MARK

World Fairs have left some amazing legacies and introduced the world to new ideas.

What will Toronto's be? As of yet, there is no signature piece on the drawing board, no monumental idea.

The legacy may be putting a deadline on redeveloping the waterfront.

Here's a few highlights of what happened in other cities:

- London 1851: The Crystal Palace (destroyed by fire 1936) and Royal Albert Hall

- Paris 1889: Eiffel Tower

- Chicago 1898: Debut of Juicy Fruit gum

- Seattle 1962: Space Needle

- Montreal 1967: Habitat 67, Geodesic Dome, bridges, transit expansion

- Vancouver 1986: False Creek development, Canada Place convention centre, Sky Train LRT

[Faster]

I personally think this is a completely dumb idea, especially since its major City Hall supporter is going to be out of a job in a couple of years. The days of the expos are over. They are a money losing event and the type of buildings needed to hold them are not needed in Toronto.

[dave199]

I personally think this is a completely dumb idea, especially since its major City Hall supporter is going to be out of a job in a couple of years. The days of the expos are over. They are a money losing event and the type of buildings needed to hold them are not needed in Toronto.

I think with Shanghai hosting the 2010 version they will reinvigorate Expo.

[Sir Rols]

I personally think this is a completely dumb idea, especially since its major City Hall supporter is going to be out of a job in a couple of years. The days of the expos are over. They are a money losing event and the type of buildings needed to hold them are not needed in Toronto.

I think with Shanghai hosting the 2010 version they will reinvigorate Expo.

C'mon, Japan organised a pretty good one last year _ and how many people outside of Japan actually payed much attention.

Shanghai will be the same _ a very big deal to China, and of marginal interest at best anywhere else. Hosting 2015 would do little to raise Toronto's world profile.

[Faster]

If the Expo was put back till 2017 then  it would be alright, at least it could be a huge attraction for Canadians.

[dave199]

I personally think this is a completely dumb idea, especially since its major City Hall supporter is going to be out of a job in a couple of years. The days of the expos are over. They are a money losing event and the type of buildings needed to hold them are not needed in Toronto.

I think with Shanghai hosting the 2010 version they will reinvigorate Expo.

C'mon, Japan organised a pretty good one last year _ and how many people outside of Japan actually payed much attention.

Shanghai will be the same _ a very big deal to China, and of marginal interest at best anywhere else. Hosting 2015 would do little to raise Toronto's world profile.

I agree it wouldn't raise its international profile that much but the only reason why Toronto officials are bidding for this is because it gives them reason to develop the waterfront therefore giving the federal government more reason to pour money into the city. I'm sure it would draw a good number of visitors from across Canada and the United States. I've mentioned it many times, I would rather see the city host an Olympics but I wouldn't mind if Toronto hosted an Expo. We all know what happened with Montreal and Vancouver after they hosted an Expo.

[Apple]

T.O. Expo bid wows organizers

By ROB GRANATSTEIN

Toronto's Expo 2015 bid team is brimming with confidence after two days of meetings with Expo officials in Paris.

But the bid team's own studies are urging caution in its projections for what would be a multi-billion-dollar fair. A review of the city's projections of 72 million people attending the six-month fair and the economic impacts were called "optimistic to very optimistic."

"The essential shortcoming of the feasibility study lies ... with its inadequate recognition of the wide variety of possible outcomes in attendance," the report by Economics Research Associates (ERA) found. It suggested 30-50 million visitors is more realistic.

Expo bid co-chairman Brian Ashton, speaking from Paris, said the Expo team has already sliced down the economic impact figures from 192,000 jobs created to more in the range of 100,000, while the tax revenue and tourism boosts have also been reduced.

A separate consultant's report said Toronto's portlands is the best site for the fair.

Ashton and co-chairman Peter Milczyn said Bureau International des Exposition secretary general Vicente Gonzalez Loscertales was shown an aerial view of the portlands and the view of the city from the site yesterday.

"Their eyeballs fell on the table when they saw the potential and legacy of a waterfront site," Ashton said.

http://torontosun.com/News/TorontoAndGTA/2...531250-sun.html

[dave199]

I kind of figured that the initial estimates were inflated. I'm kind of indifferent on this whole issue at the moment. I would like Toronto to host an large scale international event but at the same time I don't know if Expo is right for them. As many have mentioned they seem to be going out of date, an event that isn't heavily attracting visitors as it once did. An Olympics would leave the city and its waterfront with a much greater legacy. Time will only tell but it looks as if Toronto will win their bid for Expo if they continue. The competition seems to be very weak.

[cesco_82]

I think I heard that Milan will ask for being the guest, too...

[Mikel]

I think I heard that Milan will ask for being the guest, too...

What about Istanbul or Moscow?

[Guardian]

My city tried to get Expo 2005, but it didn't matter much in the end. Like one event that my city rejected recently to bid for, it calls for real debate on whether it is really a good idea to go for it financially.

As for other possible candidates for Expo 2015, it will be interesting if the USA does put a bid forward because it WITHDREW ITS BIE MEMBERSHIP. Sure, it could bid for one, but it could be tough to convince them to give them one when your country snubs them. As such, there is only rumors that San Fran, Las Vegas and Atlanta wants to be the American candidate city.

[dave199]

Commentary Article from The Globe and Mail

Expo 2015 is ours for the taking. Uh oh

JOHN BARBER

The most shocking and potentially appalling thing about Toronto's fledgling bid to stage Expo 2015 is not that it will fail, like all previous local attempts at brass-ring seizure, but that it will win -- easily.

With only the Turkish city of Izmir in the competition so far, and Moscow demurring, waiting to see what we do, the very emergence of a Toronto bid could be enough to ensure its success. Indeed, it could be that the good grey folk at the Bureau of International Expositions are downright eager to implant their upcoming megaproject on our shores, at our expense.

We only lost our bid for Expo 2000 by one vote, a tie-breaker registered by the former government of East Germany in response to a bribe from the winning West Germans -- the last official act of the hated Communist regime and thus its final perfidy.

So this time we win. Then what?

It's all slightly scary. Unlike the previous two Olympics bids, which were well known and widely supported by the local yokelry throughout their gestation and through the heartbreaking competitions that followed, the Expo bid is a black box. Diligent consultants have produced attractive estimates of potential attendance and economic impact, but the city hall-based bid team is still struggling to articulate a compelling reason why we would want to undertake such a project in the first place.

Councillor Brian Ashton admits that that fundamental fogginess glared during his team's discussions with senior BIE officials in Paris this week.

"We talked about people, humanity, civil society, what makes Toronto different as a centre of foreign migration," Mr. Ashton said. "They wanted something more pointed."

So that's the No. 1 priority on the current Expo to-do list: Figure out why we want to have one.

We know it's going to cost a fortune -- at least $3.5-billion, before hoped-for revenues. What's the point?

"We know we have a little more work to do on the theme element," Mr. Ashton said.

The vision thing.

Happily, there are consultants working on that, figuring out what it is that Toronto and the world might like to celebrate nine years from now and boiling it down to a not-too-trite idealistic phrase.

But they don't have much time: Assuming Izmir submits its bid on June 30, at the BIE's annual convention, other potential hosts will then have six months to enter the contest. In addition to fashioning a good reason to do so, the Toronto team will have to obtain firm commitments of several billion dollars by Christmas.

In any event, selling the idea to Canadians will probably prove tougher than selling it abroad. It isn't cities but rather nations that apply to host Expos. Strong leadership from the national government is essential. "It's their bid," Mr. Ashton said. "If Ottawa says no, you're dead."

In fact, the new Harper government knows no more about the bid than the average Torontonian, and has said less. Busy husbanding the alienated west into power, it has no representatives from Toronto and an attitude toward the country's largest city that, at best, is traditional.

"The greatest challenge now is to have a prime minister who looks at this bid and sees a marvellous opportunity," Mr. Ashton said. "I want him to see some value in this -- not only for Toronto and the Golden Horseshoe but for Canada."

There is some foggy talk about inducing national participation by styling Expo 2015 as an ever-so-slightly premature sesquicentennial of Confederation. There is also some pouting about our deservedness, given the successes of Montreal, Vancouver and Calgary in such pursuits, contrasted with our past losses. But the best reason for the Harper government to say yes is that under current Canadian rules governing such bids, Queen's Park would have to pay for it.

But those rules don't work. Although the McGuinty government is already supporting the Expo bid, financially and otherwise, it could never afford the whole nut.

Mr. Ashton imagines the budget being shared relative to each government's Expo-led gain in tax revenue, adding that federal officials have already assured him that a first-class world's fair is "not too hard to say yes to." Could it be, he wonders, that the Harper government says yes and the McGuinty government blocks the way?

Whatever happens, the mercy is that it will have to happen soon. Plucky Izmir will set the clock ticking on June 30. With luck, we will know the bid's fate before succumbing to sugarplum visions of the sort that two failed Olympic bids created and then cruelly shattered.

If anything, the Expo vision is even more beguiling. Unlike the largely prefabricated Olympics, Expos are conceived and developed locally, allowing cities greater flexibility in making statements and in capturing lasting benefits -- whether it's new transit or, in the case of Expo 2015's site in the port lands, a whole new urban district.

The 1972 Montreal Olympics were a disaster, but Expo 67, in the same city, had a magical effect on the morale of the nation and on its international image.

There we go dreaming again -- a dangerous pastime.

[dave199]

There seems to be more media coverage on Toronto's possible Expo bid lately. Here's another article from the Toronto Star

If Toronto builds Expo, will they come?

Toronto debates whether to bid on 2015 world's fair

Some see event as irrelevant in age of the Internet

Apr. 18, 2006. 05:30 AM

JOSEPH HALL

STAFF REPORTER

Is Toronto about to fish in a bygone era for the future of its waterfront?

With the city set to decide late next month whether to back a bid for the Expo 2015 world's fair, Toronto could soon be searching, yet again, for an international extravaganza to kick-start its port lands development.

But some experts say these international exhibitions, which date back to the middle of the 19th century, are anachronisms in this age of mass tourism and the Internet.

"Certainly there are lots of people who regard these events as anachronistic, as cultural dinosaurs ... as things that have outlived their usefulness," says Montana State University historian Robert Rydell, who has made a study of the 155-year-old world's fair movement.

The Paris-based Bureau International des Expositions will make a decision on the 2015 fair location in February 2008. To date, other cities expressing interest include Moscow, Rio de Janeiro and Izmir, Turkey. Toronto's bid would require some $2 billion backing from Ottawa, Queen's Park and the city.

Over the past 16 years, Toronto has unsuccessfully bid on two Summer Olympics — the 1996 and 2008 Games — and the Expo 2000 fair, as well as some more minor cultural and sporting events. The 2000 fair, which was awarded to the German city of Hanover, was widely considered an attendance and entertainment failure.

Expo expert Bruno Giberti has called the global exhibition passé in an age of instant information access and global travel.

"You have to ask yourself, who really needs a world's fair when you can look up the world on the Internet?" Giberti, an architectural historian at the California Polytechnic State University, told the Toronto Star in 2004.

"I do still see these fairs as passé," he said recently, "unless Toronto has somehow reimagined the event in some unanticipated way."

Giberti says international spectacles of all kinds have lost their appeal to many, especially in the United States, which would be relied on to provide millions of visitors to a Toronto fair.

"I think the declining interest, in the U.S. at least, in the Olympics is evidence of the way in which these kinds of international events have become obviated," he says.

The main thrust of Expos past has been to bring international technologies and cultures to people who, in all likelihood, would have had no other way of seeing them, Giberti says.

Rydell agrees that a daunting array of entertainment and information options has emerged to challenge the world's fair raison d'être.

On the other hand, he says, there's still a lot of life left in the concept.

One proof of life, he says, rests in the simple fact that some recent Expos have been enormously popular.

A small world's fair in Aichi, Japan last year, for example, was expected to draw 15 million visitors and ended up attracting almost 22 million.

"People were lined up for eight to 10 hours trying to get into the Expo grounds," says Rydell, who visited the fair. "And this in a high-wired, high-tech society if ever there was one."

He points out that the 1992 Expo in Seville, Spain drew 42 million people, while attendance projections for Expo 2010 in Shanghai are around the 75 million mark.

Expos, he says, have prospered almost everywhere but North America, where, after Montreal's iconic Expo '67, they have often been forgettable cultural and financial failures.

Lacklustre events in San Antonio, Spokane, Knoxville and New Orleans between 1968 and 1984 largely erased the world's fair allure established here by Montreal, which is often regarded as the century's best Expo.

Even Vancouver's popular Expo '86 — which drew more than 22 million visitors — failed to reignite interest on this continent, which has not held one in the ensuing two decades.

In other regions of the world, however, they've thrived, Rydell says.

A large part of this overseas success can be attributed to an innate desire to be part of the spectacle that events like a world's fair can provide.

"You can ask why anyone would (line up) in the 21st century when you can easily point and click," he says.

"But why do people go to baseball games? Why do people go to football games when they can turn on their television sets?"

The sights, smells and organized chaos of a fair still hold an allure for people, he says.

"There's still a kind of being-there-ness (attraction) of all of this that in some ways suggests we aren't as far removed from the 20th and even 19th century as we like to think we are," Rydell says.

As well, he says, an important goal of world's fairs since the 1880s has been the creation of new urban infrastructure — cultural, economic and physical — within the host cities.

That, he says, is still a legitimate and achievable purpose.

"Since the 1880s at least, world's fairs have been about building urban infrastructure, they've been about building museums," he says.

"And that's been pretty well-maintained through the 20th century as well."

Montreal's splendid subway system, a number of its major hotels and its international reputation can be traced back to the centennial year Expo.

Vancouver's Expo helped that city reclaim large tracts of its waterfront and left it with its popular Science World dome.

But Giberti says the goal of urban renewal — especially on derelict lands — should more legitimately be tied to ongoing city planning, rather than a one-shot Expo extravaganza.

"If urban renewal is the ambition, I can hardly believe that it's not more effective just to engage in that project than it is to use a world's fair as a lever."

Rydell also argues that fairs have often been showcases for new and innovative architecture, with Expo pavilions having represented some of the most striking design concepts of the 20th century.

But actual fair pavilions should not be counted on as a potential legacy, Rydell cautions.

Overwhelmingly meant to be temporary installations, the pavilions are almost invariably dismantled soon after the exhibition runs are completed, he says.

"The structures are intended to be ephemeral because of (upkeep) costs," he says.

In Montreal, for example, only the former French pavilion, now a casino, and the shell of the American pavilion, Buckminster Fuller's famed geodesic dome, remain on the actual Expo site.

Giberti, however, says the use of Expos to promote innovative architecture has been overtaken by a new push to build permanent, individual masterpieces into the fabric of urban centres.

This concept, first realized with architect Frank Gehry's Guggenheim Museum in Bilbao, Spain, has been copied in cities around the world.

Toronto is currently undergoing an architectural renascence of its own, with major renovations of the Royal Ontario Museum, the Art Gallery of Ontario (which Gehry designed) and other major cultural centres now under construction.

Giberti says the vast majority of Expos cost more than they bring in. But calculating the economic benefits cannot be limited solely to volume at the turnstile, Rydell says.

"Very few world's fairs over the years have been profitable in the sense that the people who have invested in them have made a significant return off the revenue intake," he says.

"But overwhelmingly, people who invest in these things make money from secondary (and) tertiary investments in transportation infrastructure, hotels, tourism and those types of things."

Surprisingly, Toronto has already benefited from long ago world's fair aspirations, says Keith Walden, a history professor at Peterborough's Trent University.

He says the city's old Industrial Exhibition, first held in 1879, had aspirations to become a world's fair and spawned a marked modernization of Toronto.

"It didn't hold a candle to the Parisian fairs, and certainly not to the 1893 Chicago fair," says Walden, whose book, Becoming Modern in Toronto, documents the changes brought here by the precursor to the Canadian National Exhibition.

"But Toronto had aspirations for greater things. As the 1893 Toronto program put it, `Not a world's fair, but nearly so.'"

[TOOOC]

This image above is the temporary logo being used. A design team is working on the official Bid Logo to be released in June when the bid is officially launched.

Theme

Somwhere along the lines of culture and communication was selected by participants, including myself.

Cultural Program

In my opinion, this is the exciting part of Expo, having the world’s best artistic and cultural performances taking place right in our own backyard.

Two amphitheatres, one permanent and one temporary would be built. The one that caught my eye is an inconic floating stage in the harbour positioned in a way that the Toronto skyline in the background would be the backdrop. It would be a memorable lasting image for visitors and the world’s media.

The opening and closing ceremonies are proposed for the Rogers Centre with a possible cultural parade along Queen’s Quay towards the Expo site to symbolically connect downtown and the Expo site together.

A daily parade down the “Plaza of Nations” and nightly fireworks are also proposed.

Social

Obviously listing the potential to create hundreds of thousands of new jobs and economic spin off from hosting Expo.

Strong emphasis to protect the city’s affordable housing stock and the inclusion of the city’s ethnic communities.

Environmental Management

A lot of talk of “green legacy” and sustainability. Funny, will the province tear down the Portlands Power Plant which will probably dominate over the site if it remains?

Site & Operations Plan

Renderings weren’t completed at the time, but will be ready in time for next week’s public consultations.

There was some rough concepts and proposed site plan.

The Portlands is the recommended site for Expo 2015. Downsview was ruled out and the dual Island Airport – Portlands option was deemed too costly, especially with an underground subway which would have cost $3.5 billion without any stations.

The new Commissioners Park would be located outside of the main entrance (smart idea) and the new Portlands Studio.

A temporary parking and bus lot of 5200 stalls would be built east of Commissioners Park on the future northward expansion of the Portlands Studios.

Many buildings would be temporary, however a few notable “Legacy buildings” would remain, including the Canadian Pavilion which will later become the United Nations University of Peace with a 500 seat theatre, a Native Centre, an Aquarium (long term naming rights would be pre-sold to sustain the facility), the Plaza of Nations with the Iconic floating stage.

A Gondola System is proposed with several stations. The system is proposed to encircle around the inner harbour around the iconic floating stage to give visitors a spectacular view of the skyline to the west. After speaking to the consultants, they suggested that the system could later be moved to the CNE/Ontario Place to connect the two sites together. Their eyes lit up when I told them I sat on the Board of Directors of the CNE and I would be thrilled to take it after they were done with it!

Finally, some sort of massive waterfront lighting beacon/tower is proposed at the end of the Plaza of Nations/Promenade.

They also sketched this idea for an underwater lighting scheme along the length of the Portlands Canal that would spell out a lit up TORONTO 2015 in the water with the wall of light reaching up into the sky. Something similar to what was proposed with Toronto’s Olympic Bid with the Olympic Rings lit up in the inner harbour.

Apparently the consultants working on this plan (Perkins Eastman Black, The Kirkland Partnerships), are the same ones working on the Expo 2010 site in Shanghai. They assured me that our proposal is at par and may even exceed the Shanghai plan.

Transportation

Underground subway is eliminated.

Queens Quay LRT built and extended to the gates of Expo.

Express buses from Pape, Chester, Broadview, and Castle Frank with some routes using new HOV lanes along the DVP down to the Portlands.

An Express LRT/Shuttle line from Union Station using the Lakeshore Rail Bed towards a new LRT/GO Station at Cherry and the Portlands.

New Ferry Service to Portlands.

I stressed the need for FREE use of the transportation system with the cost of the Expo ticket. I was told the TTC was working on it.

Developing Nations

Toronto to help 62 developing nations build temporary pavilions at Expo 2015.

Economic Feasibility

Basically we will be spending billions on Expo infrastructure, but we will be getting billions in return. Economic spin offs, jobs and tourism.

$7- 8 billion in total GDP Impact

$4- 5 billion on labour income

100,000 + jobs

Marketing

Number of projected visitors reduced from 72 million to 40 million visits (multiple visits).

Actual number of visitors: 21.5 million people (similar to Expo 2005 in Japan)

Majority of visitors are from Ontario/Canada (67%), Border States (26%) and International Visitors (7%)

Sponsorship

Bid Phase

“Expo 2015 Club” to be created to raise money for bid.

$5 million needed to be raised from corporations during bidding phase (a lot cheaper than $20 Olympic Bid)

Operation

Naming rights to major venues will be pre-sold to sustain future cost of running venues.

Example: Aquarium and Amphitheatre

Louroz

[Guardian]

According to Urso of ExpoMuseum.com, Toronto's bid for Expo 2015 could be the only candidate in behalf of North America.

[dave199]

Louroz, do you got anymore info on this bid?

Anyways, I really like the idea of the floating stage and the underwater lights.

About the United Nations building, I heard somewhere before that they are trying to get the UN to move their headquarters to Toronto, I presume now its this new building that they would move into? I doubt it will happen though. What can you tell me about this?

[baron-pierreIV]

I would go.  I've never been to Toronto.  The other thing is timing.  If no other big spectacle is happening that year -- and no big terrorist attack that will scare people from travelling, then 2015 could still be a big success.

[Guardian]

Well, the race is ON!

Izmir, Turkey, which hosted the Summer Universaide in 2005, is now the first official candidate city for the 2015 World's Fair. According to the .pdf file in the official BIE site, the Turkish ambassador to France submitted the official letter to become one on May 3. The theme for the possible first Turkish Expo is: New Routes To A Better World/Health For All. Well, I would like to find out what the Turkish members have to say about this.

As for Toronto's possible run for Expo 2015, here was a Toronto Sun article dated from last Thursday:

Expo: Bonanza Or Bust?

So, still any interest from Toronto for it? I say that is because ExpoMuseum.com states that these two cities mentioned here could be the main contenders for the prize.

[Mikel]

I would go with Istanbul better than Izmir... :oo:

[Faster]

Louroz, do you got anymore info on this bid?

Anyways, I really like the idea of the floating stage and the underwater lights.

About the United Nations building, I heard somewhere before that they are trying to get the UN to move their headquarters to Toronto, I presume now its this new building that they would move into? I doubt it will happen though. What can you tell me about this?

The actually proposal that was put into place if funding for the NYC offices is not there is to move the main buildings into a complex in Montreal, not Toronto. NYC has been trying for a few years now to push the UN out of the city so they can reclaim the land and sell it for the multiple millions of dollars it is worth. There was also a proposal to open a forth UN office in Sydney some time ago, but I am not to sure the Australian government wants it.

[Sir Rols]

There was also a proposal to open a forth UN office in Sydney some time ago, but I am not to sure the Australian government wants it.

I never heard of that one, but going by John Howard's attitude to the UN, I doubt that idea would get far in the corrent climate anyway.

[Mikel]

There was also a proposal to open a forth UN office in Sydney some time ago, but I am not to sure the Australian government wants it.

I never heard of that one, but going by John Howard's attitude to the UN, I doubt that idea would get far in the corrent climate anyway.

What about Brussels, the European capital?  :Oo:

[baron-pierreIV]

Naah.  It's the UN-New York staff that don't want to move.  Vienna had a whole UN City built outside the city sometime in the late '70s hoping to lure the UN there.  Didn't work.  The UN staff preferred to stay in NY.

[Faster]

Naah.  It's the UN-New York staff that don't want to move.  Vienna had a whole UN City built outside the city sometime in the late '70s hoping to lure the UN there.  Didn't work.  The UN staff preferred to stay in NY.

About 70% of UN staff is non-American. The only all-American department in the UN is their police.

[baron-pierreIV]

Naah.  It's the UN-New York staff that don't want to move.  Vienna had a whole UN City built outside the city sometime in the late '70s hoping to lure the UN there.  Didn't work.  The UN staff preferred to stay in NY.

About 70% of UN staff is non-American. The only all-American department in the UN is their police.

Doesn't or didn't matter.  At the time, many of them (the career staffers, anyway) also held U.S. green cards and had settled lives (homes, schools, extended family, etc.) in the New York area.  I don't know what the sentiment now is.  But remember, a smaller city too has to provide offices, homes, all the support services, limos, 4-star hotels for about 200 missions of varying sizes.  So you have to take that into consideration.