MrCatra Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I think that the logical options for ahother SOG is South America would be Buenos Aires and Santiago.Sao Paulo would be ready to it only in 20-30 years and that´s too long. It would have to do the same that Rio did. First stage the Pan American Games (again) and then use it as a basis to a realistic Olympic project. The sucess of Rio´s OG will be a platform for those cities. We may see games in South America in every 4 or 5 Olympic Games. I really doubt Buenos Aires will be able to host the SOG anytime soon... and I doubt it will change for the next 3 decades (long time but they are into Peron-like populism again so it'll take a long time to the country modernize itself) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I think that the logical options for ahother SOG is South America would be Buenos Aires and Santiago.Sao Paulo would be ready to it only in 20-30 years and that´s too long. It would have to do the same that Rio did. First stage the Pan American Games (again) and then use it as a basis to a realistic Olympic project. The sucess of Rio´s OG will be a platform for those cities. We may see games in South America in every 4 or 5 Olympic Games. Sao Paulo is not a kind of city for hosting Olympic Games, Rogerio, don't try to believe on it. Sao Paulo should focus in what Sao Paulo is: a great and a major financial center. About games in South America in the future: my predictions: 3 or 4 per century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 Ok. But I was talking about a single park and not an entire complex.Remember that Anhanguera/Horto Florestal/Cantareira/Jaragua/Varzeas do Tiete parks are also a complex that cover all northern part of Greater Sao Paulo. Varzeas do Tiete alone has about 11,000 ha, sum that 7916,52 ha of Cantareira, 174 ha of Horto, 8997 ha of Anhanguera etc. It depends of the criteria used. But, as I said before, this is an useless and pointless discussion, and this is not the point of this topic. Let´s leave our the "bairrismo" aside. Barrismo aside, it's sad that SP wants to stole all great titles Rio have... I remember once that Sao Paulo citizen were proud about Ayrton Senna be the biggest urban tunnel in Brazil... They forgot Reboucas Tunnel in Rio. Pedra Branca alone is 12,500 ha. And we sum both, because they are only one forest. See it at Google. Anhanguera forest is not inside a urban area. The title SP is trying to stole from Rio is flaw. It's a invention by SP state authority. Bairrismo aside. I will not be surprised in the future if you guys say Santos beaches are more famous than Copacabana... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew NYC Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Before Buenos Aires or Santiago i see Bogota and Lima that are trying to host the PanAm Games in 2015. Sao Paulo, for the reasons explained, i can't see the games there, because of the lack of space to build venues and the Olympic Village. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpman Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Barrismo aside, it's sad that SP wants to stole all great titles Rio have... I remember once that Sao Paulo citizen were proud about Ayrton Senna be the biggest urban tunnel in Brazil... They forgot Reboucas Tunnel in Rio.I will not be surprised in the future if you guys say Santos beaches are more famous than Copacabana... Hey Danny, you complain about "bairrismo" but you are forcing the rivalry. Take it easy! At least the Ayrton Senna tunnel is more safe. Speaking seriously, I do not see São Paulo hosting any Olympics aside the World Cup. And I don´t even see another South American city hosting any time soon due to economics and politics challenges. The truth is that Rio will not host the 2016 Games because has the best plans. Mr. Rogge just said between lines that "it was the right thing to do". Politics again! But I hope the Olympics push South America up and forward. About São Paulo tourism.. the city has many things to do and visit! More than any other South American city (Rio included). The bad side is transportation and violence in some parts of the city. From an international point of view São Paulo biggest fault is not have a landmark. MASP museum is not an international landmark. I know there are several plans over the years to build a skyscrapper. Or something in the line of Seattle´s Space Needle. Something different in the skyline would be good for the city in an international level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 About São Paulo tourism.. the city has many things to do and visit! More than any other South American city (Rio included). Sorry, it's crazy to say that... I know both cities very well and it's impossible to calculate it... Since Rio and Sao Paulo are different cities... How to calculate things to do between Rio and Sao Paulo, if Rio is in the coast and Sao Paulo in the hills... Impossible. Don't play the biased here... Ayrton Senna tunnel is so safe that some homeless sleeps there... Never I said here that Rio plans were perfect or the best overall plan in the race... But it's undeniable that Evaluation Report (that really matters) was not concern about Rio plans at all... (Probably not the best bid in the race, agreed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpman Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Sorry, it's crazy to say that... I know both cities very well and it's impossible to calculate it... Since Rio and Sao Paulo are different cities... How to calculate things to do between Rio and Sao Paulo, if Rio is in the coast and Sao Paulo in the hills... Impossible. Easy! São Paulo has more theaters, more malls, more restaurants, more nightclubs. And why? Because this freak city is huge! Rio is not a metropolis in the same way as São Paulo, New York, Tokyo or Mexico City. I am talking about entertainment in the level and variety of great international cities (US and Europe). Of course Rio has restaurants, malls, (beach) etc... but São Paulo has more variety. You can´t denied that. Research the city´s business services! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogerioandrade Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Let me point something here for you guys. Did anyone notice that this talk about Rio x Sao Paulo is much more emotional than technical ? Both are great cities to explore and if you take a closer look in them, you´ll see that they´re completely different cities, considering geography, economy, cultural backgrounds etc. At the same time, they share the same problems: pollution, bad public transportation, favelas and poverty. While in Sao Paulo people tend to enjoy typical urban leisure (galleries, restaurants, bars, nightclubs, expositions), Rio offers so much with its nature and popular culture (beaches, parks, eco rides, sports, carnaval). So the mood is different. Each one has it preference. Some people prefer a modern, multi-cultural city like Sao Paulo, others prefer the laid-back, nature-approach mood of Rio. It´s just an emotional choice and nothing more. I understand that this "folkloric dispute" has some social and historical reasons, that I don´t feel necessary to explain here. We could compare these cities using infinite technical criteria. But what people should notice is that considering the way our economy have developed THESE CITIES HAVE A MUTUAL DEPENDENCE ON EACH OTHER, be it economic or social. Thousands of paulistas fly every year to Rio to attend its parties. Thousands of cariocas come to Sao Paulo every year for business. The country´s media market is concentrated in both cities. Could Globo TV survive without its paulista audience ? I don´t think so. Could technology companies in Sao Paulo survive without its carioca demands? Nope. Of course, Brazil is not only about Rio and Sao Paulo. There´s a whole huge country outside those cities. But I can´t imagine a developed Brazil without one or another city. Let´s, then, see both cities for what they are, accept their technical differences and understand that the preference for one or another is just emotional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogerioandrade Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 By the way, I do believe that it´s possible for Sao Paulo to host the OG, as much as its possible for New York, Tokio or Buenos Aires. The problem is that it would cost too much. I remember that Sao Paulo made a plan for hosting the 2012 games, but the cost of it was 5x higher than Rio´s project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpman Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 You are right Rogerio! By the way, I do believe that it´s possible for Sao Paulo to host the OG, as much as its possible for New York, Tokio or Buenos Aires. The problem is that it would cost too much. I remember that Sao Paulo made a plan for hosting the 2012 games, but the cost of it was 5x higher than Rio´s project. Of course São Paulo can host but it would cost really much more money than Rio. We don´t have big empty spaces near the main transportation system like Rio. New York had the same problem of empty spaces for the 2012 bid. The same discussion São Paulo has when some people wanted a new stadium in São Paulo for the World Cup. Where? It would need to be build at some point around the city along with a new line of subway, train and roads. It would be too costly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aluz Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 You are right Rogerio! Of course São Paulo can host but it would cost really much more money than Rio. We don´t have big empty spaces near the main transportation system like Rio. New York had the same problem of empty spaces for the 2012 bid. The same discussion São Paulo has when some people wanted a new stadium in São Paulo for the World Cup. Where? It would need to be build at some point around the city along with a new line of subway, train and roads. It would be too costly! I guess we are coming to an agreement. The main issue is getting a compact plan. I don't think SP could even pull off a 4 cluster plan like Rio. Besides, bulldozing the Interlagos race track is not an option due to the F1 GP held there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 Easy! São Paulo has more theaters, more malls, more restaurants, more nightclubs. And why? Because this freak city is huge! Rio is not a metropolis in the same way as São Paulo, New York, Tokyo or Mexico City. I am talking about entertainment in the level and variety of great international cities (US and Europe). Of course Rio has restaurants, malls, (beach) etc... but São Paulo has more variety. You can´t denied that. Research the city´s business services! Funny, according to Brazilian Shopping Center Association the city with more malls? Rio!!!! We have indeed a mall full of.... theaters!!! Gávea Mall Museums? Rio has more since half Brazilian political history happened in Rio... Beaches we can't talk about it because Sao Paulo is on the hills... of course... Restaurants, Sao Paulo is a huge gastronomic center besides best Restaurant in Brazil for 2007 and 2008 was in Rio... LOL Parks???? we don't need to discuss... Sao Paulo have two main parks (Ibirapuera and recent Tiete) while in Rio: Aterro do Flamengo, Jardim Botanico, Parque Lage, Floresta da Tijuca, Parque Guinle and go on and on and on and on.... Sao Paulo is great city for business... Give up on Sao Paulo touristic destination... And Rio: 3,8 million foreigner tourists/year... (65% of foreigners that come to Brazil) Record in the southern hemisphere... we don't need to talk more about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feheva Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 By the way, I do believe that it´s possible for Sao Paulo to host the OG, as much as its possible for New York, Tokio or Buenos Aires. The problem is that it would cost too much. I remember that Sao Paulo made a plan for hosting the 2012 games, but the cost of it was 5x higher than Rio´s project. You are right Rogerio! Of course São Paulo can host but it would cost really much more money than Rio. We don´t have big empty spaces near the main transportation system like Rio. New York had the same problem of empty spaces for the 2012 bid. The same discussion São Paulo has when some people wanted a new stadium in São Paulo for the World Cup. Where? It would need to be build at some point around the city along with a new line of subway, train and roads. It would be too costly! I guess we are coming to an agreement. The main issue is getting a compact plan. I don't think SP could even pull off a 4 cluster plan like Rio. Besides, bulldozing the Interlagos race track is not an option due to the F1 GP held there. Good! End of the thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Yeah, let's terminate this thread, since Sao Paulo 2020 (thread's name) is not the focus, at least by now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogerioandrade Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Funny, according to Brazilian Shopping Center Association the city with more malls? Rio!!!!We have indeed a mall full of.... theaters!!! Gávea Mall Museums? Rio has more since half Brazilian political history happened in Rio... Beaches we can't talk about it because Sao Paulo is on the hills... of course... Restaurants, Sao Paulo is a huge gastronomic center besides best Restaurant in Brazil for 2007 and 2008 was in Rio... LOLParks???? we don't need to discuss... Sao Paulo have two main parks (Ibirapuera and recent Tiete) while in Rio: Aterro do Flamengo, Jardim Botanico, Parque Lage, Floresta da Tijuca, Parque Guinle and go on and on and on and on....Sao Paulo is great city for business... Give up on Sao Paulo touristic destination... And Rio: 3,8 million foreigner tourists/year... (65% of foreigners that come to Brazil) Record in the southern hemisphere... we don't need to talk more about it... That´s exactely what I wrote about at my previous post. Danny, your Rio/Sao Paulo comparison is purely emotional. You claim about paulistas that say bad things about Rio, but you´re no different from them. You act just like the ones you argue about. The annoying thing about this Rio/Sao Paulo issue is that emotional supporters simply refuse to accept facts. Not accepting facts is just foolish and dumbness. Remember that Sao Paulo´s GDP and population are DOUBLE of Rio´s. So it´s obvious that Sao Paulo surpass Rio in many technical and statistic data. Just correcting what you said: - Sao Paulo has 130 commercial centers while Rio has 70 - Sao Paulo has 71 museums (not counting art galleries) while Rio has 49 - Sao Paulo has 40 parks, besides those two you cited, I will name the ones I´ve VISITED: Horto Florestal, Jaragua, Cantareira, Tiete, Do Carmo, Do Estado, Villa-Lobos, Piqueri, Iguatemi, Estadual da Serra do Mar, Trianon, Da Luz, Agua Branca, etc. etc. etc. etc. - While it´s true that Rio recieves more tourists, Sao Paulo actually recieves more foreigners than Rio. The difference is that most foreigners come to Rio for leisure/tourism, while in Sao Paulo most come for business, study or to take connection flights to other south american cities. Check out Infraero´s airport statistic if you don´t believe (I know you don´t want to believe). - And the record of tourists in the Southern Hemisphere is not owned by Rio, but by Buenos Aires. Even Sydney, in Australia, recieves more tourists than Rio. Of course Rio surpass Sao Paulo in some statistics too, leisure tourists (as I said), better air quality, higher education ranks, higher % of green areas, oil production and others. Rio will always be an important city in both tourism, economy and culture for Brazil and for South America. The win at the IOC Election is a proof of that. But Rio is NOT the center of Brazil for everything. Its lost its position of main economic and political center decades ago. This is a huge country and it´s foolish to think that Rio alone represents all Brazil although we all agree that Rio is the entrace door for this amazing country and our main showcase. If anyone want to compare cities, please, be smart and take on statistics and technical data, not biased emotions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogerioandrade Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 I forget to mention that D.O.M., which is Sao Paulo based, was choosen by The Guardian, Restaurant Week, Restaurant Magazine and St. Pellegrino as the best restaurant in South America in 2008. These are four specialized international publications. Can we argue with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cauê Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Museums, restaurant, nightclubs, helicopter ... this is not a difference in a city because all big cities in the world have museums, restaurents... Number of restaurants, museums in Rio is compatible with the city. The proportion of museums by carioca in Rio is better than in Sao Paulo. But the differential of Rio is: In history and culture, Rio offers a city that was capital of the Portuguese empire. Rio is the ancient capital of Brazil and offers the most important historical buildings in the country. And the nature of Rio? Rio offers a forest in the heart of the city, the Corcovado Mountain with one of the new seven wonders of the world, paradisiacal beaches in the metropolis... Rio is one of the most iconic and representative cities of the world. Numbers are not more important than the history of the city, the incredible nature of the city, the representativeness of Rio. Rio is the heart of Brazil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cauê Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 The great diferential and the brand of the cities... Paris, Eiffel Tower... New York, statue of liberty... Rio: One of the most fantastic places in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpman Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 But the differential of Rio is:In history and culture, Rio offers a city that was capital of the Portuguese empire. Rio is the ancient capital of Brazil and offers the most important historical buildings in the country. And the nature of Rio? Rio offers a forest in the heart of the city, the Corcovado Mountain with one of the new seven wonders of the world, paradisiacal beaches in the metropolis... Rio is one of the most iconic and representative cities of the world. Numbers are not more important than the history of the city, the incredible nature of the city, the representativeness of Rio. Rio is the heart of Brazil. I don´t know if Rio is the heart of Brazil, Cauê, but of course Rio is indeed the most iconic of the brazilian cities for reasons discussed before. But I disagree about the ancient capital factor. Yes, Rio have important and historical buildings due to Portuguese empire here but you are forgetting Salvador (capital of Bahia), the very first capital! If we are discussing history, Salvador and Rio have the same level of historical importance, just like São Paulo. I would not like to continue the discussion due to the rivalry but Rogerio hit the nail on the head about the numbers of São Paulo. He said exactly what I was trying to say. São Paulo has more because is bigger than Rio. That´s a fact! It´s not to letdown Rio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feheva Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Rio is the heart of Brazil. Would you say São Paulo is the Brain? Just being cheeky... Rio is great! Enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chateau Petrus Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Other sign about the importance between the two cities : Direct flight from Canada to Brazil (Air Canada Airlines) (only departure from Toronto) Toronto - Sao Paulo : one direct flight, seven days a week Toronto - Rio : no direct flight (we have to transfer from Sao Paulo) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 This thread is really useless since SAO PAULO is not the focus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogerioandrade Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Would you say São Paulo is the Brain?Just being cheeky... Rio is great! Enough! hahahahahaha... . I just couldn´t keep my laughing. Humor aside, there´s something to be considered. Yes, Salvador and some northern cities are VERY important, in the historic and cultural point of view. I would put in this list Natal, Recife/Olinda, Manaus and Belem. This is a huge country and a couple of cities are equally important for both history and culture. You can´t tell what Brazil really is if you visit only Sao Paulo or Rio de Janeiro. (ops! I think this is not the right thread to discuss this...., since this is about Sao Paulo) I really don´t understand why there´s so much resentiment from (some) cariocas toward Sao Paulo. The majority of paulistas are glad with Rio´s victory and the reaction of paulista media was highly positive. Sao Paulo even is going to stage some soccer games ! We all know that there are some historical reasons for some resentiment, but such reasons are no longer valid. They don´t change anything, they don´t change facts, and they don´t change our country. Keepig this "folkloric hate" between the cities is a loser-loser game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogerioandrade Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 Other sign about the importance between the two cities :Direct flight from Canada to Brazil (Air Canada Airlines) (only departure from Toronto) Toronto - Sao Paulo : one direct flight, seven days a week Toronto - Rio : no direct flight (we have to transfer from Sao Paulo) And Sao Paulo is the only city in Latin America that has a direct flight to Dubai - daily. I really hope, though that Fly Emirates increase its presence in South America in a near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 I really don´t understand why there´s so much resentiment from (some) cariocas toward Sao Paulo. The majority of paulistas are glad with Rio´s victory and the reaction of paulista media was highly positive. Sao Paulo even is going to stage some soccer games ! Opa!!! This is REALLY NOT true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! about media it's ok, I was expecting worse news about it, but SP media got it right. Exception for useless ESPN Brasil. Man, there are people that is simply don't talking to me because Rio won. May I speak my colleagues reactions in Portuguese Some colleague told me: "Nunca torci tanto contra uma coisa quanto torcei contra o Rio na sexta" A former colleague at Twitter "O Rio receber as olimpíadas é prova de que o mundo está se tornando um lugar pior" A elder colleague said: "Sou bairrista mesmo, torci contra essa merda de Rio de Janeiro" My boss: "Lamentável, extremamente lamentável a vitória do Rio" Man, I got surprised with such reaction. Three colleague came to me and congratulated me, but they seemed not to be happy at all... They came with "Let's see if Rio is able", "Rio didn't deserved, but now we are all Rio". I was kidding at twitter yesterday saying I'm searching some paulista that TRULY is happy with Rio victory. 5 days and I didn't see one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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