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thatsnotmypuppy

I Support Sao Paulo 2020

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Danny - I've been to Rio. I've been to Sao Paulo. I've been up to Salvador, visited Belo Horizonte, Porto Alegre and Brasilia. Frankly I found Porto Alegre the better Brazilian city - it is on a human scale and the people wwere far more friendlier than the Cariocas by a long shot. Sao Paulo would need a bit of a clean up - but so does Rio.

And if you refer to me as a little boy again I will personally hunt you down and rip your fuckking head off.

I called "little boy" the baby in the youtube (it was a joke, asking baby what he thinks about SP 2020), not you. Sorry the misundestood.

Porto Alegre is a great city but have a lot of issue to solve as Rio and Sao Paulo. I've been in POA and after this I've got more sure that Curitiba is the best capital in southern Brazil. This is not relevant here.

Frinedlier people can be not a good think to rank.. Curitibans are known for being "cold", but I love the people there... It's a weird thing to discuss...

Sao Paulo is a metropolis that grew up without any organization. Today Sao Paulo have the biggest traffic jams in the world (Some other day got almost 300Km of "jams" inside the city!!!), have a lot of crime issues to solve (kidnapping, picketpocket, and car robbery mainly), it is a ugly city in general, with polluted rivers all long the metroarea...

Sao Paulo is not exactly a post card to be shown in a Olympic Games... That's simple why SOG can not be placed in Sao Paulo.

Brasilia and Curitiba are far better second options for a SOG in Brazil than Sao Paulo.

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Dannyel, It's unfair to cut out São Paulo that fast.

Of course the city has its issues, just like Rio de Janeiro does. Some problems are even similar (troubled growth, pollution, crime). Maybe your SP X RIO battle got too intense and you can't see their good points.

Today Rio is the natural choice of Brazil to an olympic bid after the 2007 games and all the previous experiences. Today, Rio de Janeiro is the sports hotspot in the country. I guess SP probably would need another PanAms to fix their sport infrastructure, and that doesn't seem to be their goal now since their "disrespectful" projects for 2014 WC.

But don't forget the busy airports, the economic power, their cultural events (like those Viradas), the size of it's metro area, their "internationality". And most of all their mixed population: SP is the largest "japanese city" outside Japan, the largest "lebanese city" outside Lebanon, the largest "italian city" outside Italy, the largest "portuguese city" outside Portugal and so on... I'd like to see that being shown in a bid video.

And the city isn't ugly, don't be unfair. There are stunning places to see in São Paulo. The thing is, there's nothing special at all in their natural landscape and there's too much white and grey everywhere, too much. Well, Rio de Janeiro city is also mostly white and grey, and very shadowy IMO, but Thank God there are amazing green mountains and a deep dark blue ocean to add some colour. And of course, the natural landscape and curves add the charm that made the city famous.

I believe after Rio finally host its Olympic Games, the sports attention in Brazil will shift to another city. Most certainly São Paulo.

Curitiba (nice and organized but too "cold"), POA (too "cold" unless you're a blue eyed blond and say their cuisine is the best ever), Brasília (organized, iconic, the "Rock capital" and dry as hell, nosebleeds all the time). My choice would be Brasília... or cute little Florianópolis! How do they call it? Magic Island or Love Island?

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Dannyel, It's unfair to cut out São Paulo that fast.

Of course the city has its issues, just like Rio de Janeiro does. Some problems are even similar (troubled growth, pollution, crime). Maybe your SP X RIO battle got too intense and you can't see their good points.

Today Rio is the natural choice of Brazil to an olympic bid after the 2007 games and all the previous experiences. Today, Rio de Janeiro is the sports hotspot in the country. I guess SP probably would need another PanAms to fix their sport infrastructure, and that doesn't seem to be their goal now since their "disrespectful" projects for 2014 WC.

But don't forget the busy airports, the economic power, their cultural events (like those Viradas), the size of it's metro area, their "internationality". And most of all their mixed population: SP is the largest "japanese city" outside Japan, the largest "lebanese city" outside Lebanon, the largest "italian city" outside Italy, the largest "portuguese city" outside Portugal and so on... I'd like to see that being shown in a bid video.

And the city isn't ugly, don't be unfair. There are stunning places to see in São Paulo. The thing is, there's nothing special at all in their natural landscape and there's too much white and grey everywhere, too much. Well, Rio de Janeiro city is also mostly white and grey, and very shadowy IMO, but Thank God there are amazing green mountains and a deep dark blue ocean to add some colour. And of course, the natural landscape and curves add the charm that made the city famous.

I believe after Rio finally host its Olympic Games, the sports attention in Brazil will shift to another city. Most certainly São Paulo.

Curitiba (nice and organized but too "cold"), POA (too "cold" unless you're a blue eyed blond and say their cuisine is the best ever), Brasília (organized, iconic, the "Rock capital" and dry as hell, nosebleeds all the time). My choice would be Brasília... or cute little Florianópolis! How do they call it? Magic Island or Love Island?

I am not even go in the question of the size of the city, but I can say that most foreigners who visit SP find it very ugly and unattractive. It is by far more developed than Rio in many ways, but so is NY over Chicago and I think the latter is a better choice for the SOG.

SP has major issues, but it's the only possible competition to Rio. Available space, traffic and pollution would probably kill their attempt. They are struggling to get to open the WC for that. The real problem with Morumbi is the lack of available space in the surroundings. The reason why they keep it as the first option is the need for a new stadium to be so far from the main residential areas as to require a big investment in transport infrastructure to get there. SP 2020 is unlikely to happen. Their best option would be Barueri 2020 with an Olympic park in Alphaville.

POA, BH, Curitiba and Brasilia are still too small to be an option. If Rio has problems with hotel rooms, what about those others? And they can't resort to cruise ships to cover for it. Brasilia also has no sport tradition. Since it was a capital recently erected in the middle of nowhere, it does not have traditional clubs where local sports have been developed, unlike the other possibilities. The WC stadium will be a big fat white elephant there.

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A Barueri 2020 bid would never succeed. Not with this name. Unless they use the Toronto 2015 strategy: Name the bid São Paulo 20XX and share the venues with the surrounding cities.

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Dannyel, It's unfair to cut out São Paulo that fast.

sorry, victor... I live and work in SP I know what I'm talking about.

The subway system of Sao Paulo has proportionally the same size of Rio de Janeiro's one.

SP 11-million city 87 Km of subway lines

Rio 6-million city 42 Km of subway lines

Sao Paulo have its airports busy because of a market problem. Sao Paulo is the biggest city, so its the main hub for all the flights in Brazil, and this is not a advantage, since Sao Paulo airports are overloaded...

Half Rio de Janeiro was planned (South and West Zones) while no part of Sao Paulo was planned, sometimes you are driving in a huge avenue that simply disappers in the next block... See where Raposo Tavares highway ends in Sao Paulo... in a tiny street... Rio has not this crazy things...

About the colonies in Sao Paulo, this is really great, but their "themed" neighbourhoods and underexplored. What Liberdade have on japanese culture??? Only those broken light lamposts? And Bixiga on italians??? If I were a Italian, I would probably be ashamed of the urban-mess in Bixiga...

All the people I bring to Sao Paulo, even foreigners (to be more specific, a couple of portuguese, two german guys and an australian pal) said that the city is ugly and chaotic... I don't need to say what they thought about Rio.

BTW, tell me which stunning (which means that it's really worth to come from abroad to see) places I need to see in Sao Paulo.

I grew up visiting SP, now I'm living here and I didn't discovered this place yet... Neither Jaragua nor Ibirapuera parks are stunning... Masp is interesting museum, but the building is really weird...

About Colors Sao Paulo is dark-gray and light-gray city, meanwhile Rio is cream (all the buildings is cream, pink, white) and green (lot of trees that really make some streets too shadow).

Sao Paulo is not a touristic destination at all. Period.

And not being a interesting place to visit it's hard to imagine Olympic Games in the middle of cars, crazy streets and building everywhere...

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I like São Paulo and for sure it is a global city, but there is just no viable space to host the Olympic Games! The city is just packed!

For sure, a global city, with many advantages, a great city for workind (since I work here and loves it) but a chaotic giant metropolis that must be a financial capital of Latin America and will be soon one of the most important financial centers in the world with all merits... But SP is not the city to be the sports-tourism-postcard one...

Let this to Rio, that is naturally this kind of city.

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Sao Paulo is not a touristic destination at all. Period.

Yes, it´s not, for now. But the city has been getting attention from all over the world, thanks to the development of Brazilian economy, as the main business city in Latin America, and this is lending to some increase in tourism interest too. Today is common to find foreigners walking around downtown Sampa, taking pictures and buying things, something that was imaginable 15 years ago.

I personally think that your vision about SP is kind of limited. The city truly has a cosmopolitan atmosphere that few cities around the world have, and it has been cleaned up lately. There´s lots and lots of cultural festival that keep the immigrants communities together, specially italians, japaneses, lebaneses, arabs, germans and many others. And there are many museums and parks too. Cantareira Park is the largest urban forest of the world, with waterfalls and lots of eco-related activities. Sooner the new Tiete Park will be finished and it will even surpass Cantareira in area and options of activities.

Of course, traffic jams are a major problem and there´s no sight of a solution in mid-terms for that. About crime and pollution, I dare to say that Sao Paulo is on par on Rio in those issues. But the real problem is that the city is so overcrowded that simply there´s no room in Sao Paulo to build new sports venues and to organize a good transportation system that afford the commuting of 12 million people + 400000/500000 tourists or something closer to that. The city can´t afford so many people coming at a time (it even can´t afford its own population!). Logistics is the main problem of Sao Paulo and considering the actual situation, the city wouldn´t be able to host a SOG in the next 20,30 years.

On the other side, Rio, for all its touristic importance and cultural references, as well as the possibility of reorganizing its transportation system and lots of space for new venues, and also its experience is hosting the PanAm´s, the World League, several world championships etc etc etc, is the perfect choice, right now, for Brazil.

Sao Paulo definetely is a great city to explore, but it definetely can´t hold the OG. Simply as that.

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Ibirapuera, enfia os fogos no teu cu!!!

RIO 2016!!!!

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Yes, it´s not, for now. But the city has been getting attention from all over the world, thanks to the development of Brazilian economy, as the main business city in Latin America, and this is lending to some increase in tourism interest too. Today is common to find foreigners walking around downtown Sampa, taking pictures and buying things, something that was imaginable 15 years ago.

I personally think that your vision about SP is kind of limited. The city truly has a cosmopolitan atmosphere that few cities around the world have, and it has been cleaned up lately. There´s lots and lots of cultural festival that keep the immigrants communities together, specially italians, japaneses, lebaneses, arabs, germans and many others. And there are many museums and parks too. Cantareira Park is the largest urban forest of the world, with waterfalls and lots of eco-related activities. Sooner the new Tiete Park will be finished and it will even surpass Cantareira in area and options of activities.

Of course, traffic jams are a major problem and there´s no sight of a solution in mid-terms for that. About crime and pollution, I dare to say that Sao Paulo is on par on Rio in those issues. But the real problem is that the city is so overcrowded that simply there´s no room in Sao Paulo to build new sports venues and to organize a good transportation system that afford the commuting of 12 million people + 400000/500000 tourists or something closer to that. The city can´t afford so many people coming at a time (it even can´t afford its own population!). Logistics is the main problem of Sao Paulo and considering the actual situation, the city wouldn´t be able to host a SOG in the next 20,30 years.

On the other side, Rio, for all its touristic importance and cultural references, as well as the possibility of reorganizing its transportation system and lots of space for new venues, and also its experience is hosting the PanAm´s, the World League, several world championships etc etc etc, is the perfect choice, right now, for Brazil.

Sao Paulo definetely is a great city to explore, but it definetely can´t hold the OG. Simply as that.

Well said!

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Sao Paulo definetely is a great city to explore, but it definetely can´t hold the OG. Simply as that.

I didn't read the rest, since today is not the day of discuss Sao Paulo, but I agree with I quoted.

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Danny is overeacting. He lives and works in São Paulo! And of course he probably know the so bad talked Morumbi stadium in São Paulo will be used for soccer during Rio 2016! :P

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Yes, it´s not, for now. But the city has been getting attention from all over the world, thanks to the development of Brazilian economy, as the main business city in Latin America, and this is lending to some increase in tourism interest too. Today is common to find foreigners walking around downtown Sampa, taking pictures and buying things, something that was imaginable 15 years ago.

I personally think that your vision about SP is kind of limited. The city truly has a cosmopolitan atmosphere that few cities around the world have, and it has been cleaned up lately. There´s lots and lots of cultural festival that keep the immigrants communities together, specially italians, japaneses, lebaneses, arabs, germans and many others. And there are many museums and parks too. Cantareira Park is the largest urban forest of the world, with waterfalls and lots of eco-related activities. Sooner the new Tiete Park will be finished and it will even surpass Cantareira in area and options of activities.

Of course, traffic jams are a major problem and there´s no sight of a solution in mid-terms for that. About crime and pollution, I dare to say that Sao Paulo is on par on Rio in those issues. But the real problem is that the city is so overcrowded that simply there´s no room in Sao Paulo to build new sports venues and to organize a good transportation system that afford the commuting of 12 million people + 400000/500000 tourists or something closer to that. The city can´t afford so many people coming at a time (it even can´t afford its own population!). Logistics is the main problem of Sao Paulo and considering the actual situation, the city wouldn´t be able to host a SOG in the next 20,30 years.

On the other side, Rio, for all its touristic importance and cultural references, as well as the possibility of reorganizing its transportation system and lots of space for new venues, and also its experience is hosting the PanAm´s, the World League, several world championships etc etc etc, is the perfect choice, right now, for Brazil.

Sao Paulo definetely is a great city to explore, but it definetely can´t hold the OG. Simply as that.

Now I read all the text... I fully agree with your analysis. Well written. Except by Cantareira being the largest urban forest of the world. This is a lie invented by Sao Paulo state govt. since Pedra Branca-Tijuca park have almost the double area of Cantareira and it's place in the MIDDLE of the city, while Cantareira is placed in the borders... =]

BTW, I live in SP and I confess I have a love-hate feeling for the city.

There is only one thing that I hate in Sao Paulo that is paulistas who hates Rio de Janeiro without been there... Go first and then complain.

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Now I read all the text... I fully agree with your analysis. Well written. Except by Cantareira being the largest urban forest of the world. This is a lie invented by Sao Paulo state govt. since Pedra Branca-Tijuca park have almost the double area of Cantareira and it's place in the MIDDLE of the city, while Cantareira is placed in the borders... =]

BTW, I live in SP and I confess I have a love-hate feeling for the city.

There is only one thing that I hate in Sao Paulo that is paulistas who hates Rio de Janeiro without been there... Go first and then complain.

Well... the Cantareira/Tijuca issue is really a point of controversy, because actually the entire Cantareira park is clusted among four municipalities inside the Greater Sao Paulo, its total area is 7916,52 ha, a lot more than the 3972 ha of the Tijuca Park, but as you pointed, the latter is tottaly located inside a single city. It depends of the concept adopted to the classify a park as rural, forest or urban.Anyway, for me, this is an useless issue, since both are great, great parks to visit and to explore.

I always have lived in Sao Paulo but visited Rio twice and I can tell you that it deserves the title of "Marvellous City" more than any other city in the world. Rio is a beauty and a jewel of our Brazilian shores. Every Brazilian should visit it at least once is his life. I really regret of not enjoying the city as much as I would like, since both trips were business trips and I couldn´t stay much longer. I planning to visit it again next year and spent at least one week, just for leisure and fun. Of course, I will do some hiking/biking at the Tijuca Park !!! :lol:;)

Interesting to notice that some paulistas feel the same about cariocas who complain about Sao Paulo. It´s that kind of resentiment that doesn´t help anyone. In the process of modernization and economic growing that our country is passing throught right now, both cities need to work a lot to ensure that we won´t lose this opportunity to take Brazil to a higher place in importance for the world. I can´t imagine a developed Brazil without a developed Rio and a developed Sao Paulo.

Rio´s OG are for all the Brazililians . All the country must work to make it real as we all always dreamed and as all the world expect. Let´s not miss this chance to transform Rio and make it even better.

As for us paulistas, we still have our own challenges. Im sure that both the World Cup and the olympic Games will also be a factor of incentive for SP Government to finally to some work here too.

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Yes, it´s not, for now. But the city has been getting attention from all over the world, thanks to the development of Brazilian economy, as the main business city in Latin America, and this is lending to some increase in tourism interest too. Today is common to find foreigners walking around downtown Sampa, taking pictures and buying things, something that was imaginable 15 years ago.

I personally think that your vision about SP is kind of limited. The city truly has a cosmopolitan atmosphere that few cities around the world have, and it has been cleaned up lately. There´s lots and lots of cultural festival that keep the immigrants communities together, specially italians, japaneses, lebaneses, arabs, germans and many others. And there are many museums and parks too. Cantareira Park is the largest urban forest of the world, with waterfalls and lots of eco-related activities. Sooner the new Tiete Park will be finished and it will even surpass Cantareira in area and options of activities.

Of course, traffic jams are a major problem and there´s no sight of a solution in mid-terms for that. About crime and pollution, I dare to say that Sao Paulo is on par on Rio in those issues. But the real problem is that the city is so overcrowded that simply there´s no room in Sao Paulo to build new sports venues and to organize a good transportation system that afford the commuting of 12 million people + 400000/500000 tourists or something closer to that. The city can´t afford so many people coming at a time (it even can´t afford its own population!). Logistics is the main problem of Sao Paulo and considering the actual situation, the city wouldn´t be able to host a SOG in the next 20,30 years.

On the other side, Rio, for all its touristic importance and cultural references, as well as the possibility of reorganizing its transportation system and lots of space for new venues, and also its experience is hosting the PanAm´s, the World League, several world championships etc etc etc, is the perfect choice, right now, for Brazil.

Sao Paulo definetely is a great city to explore, but it definetely can´t hold the OG. Simply as that.

I agree with your comments, but to be a viable international tourist destination SP still lacks a few more attractive issues. Its situation in relation to Rio is like Milan to Rome.

SP is a great city and I would never deny it. It is the most developed city in Brazil by far. Rio structure and businesses are miles behind, but that would not make it a tourist city, because SP lacks something that would make it stand out from other big cities in the world. SP could rival with NY and Tokyo for being a big metropolis, but those other cities are miles ahead of SP.

In the best case, SP would be an option for regional tourism in South America as the main shopping and entertainment center in the continent. However, a lot of improvement in its entertainment options would be needed for it to try to compete with cities such as NY.

As an example for this problem, hotel rooms in SP charge a higher rate for weekdays then for weekends. It's a clear indicator that the city is just not seen as a tourist option for most people.

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Well... the Cantareira/Tijuca issue is really a point of controversy, because actually the entire Cantareira park is clusted among four municipalities inside the Greater Sao Paulo, its total area is 7916,52 ha, a lot more than the 3972 ha of the Tijuca Park, but as you pointed, the latter is tottaly located inside a single city. It depends of the concept adopted to the classify a park as rural, forest or urban.Anyway, for me, this is an useless issue, since both are great, great parks to visit and to explore.

I always have lived in Sao Paulo but visited Rio twice and I can tell you that it deserves the title of "Marvellous City" more than any other city in the world. Rio is a beauty and a jewel of our Brazilian shores. Every Brazilian should visit it at least once is his life. I really regret of not enjoying the city as much as I would like, since both trips were business trips and I couldn´t stay much longer. I planning to visit it again next year and spent at least one week, just for leisure and fun. Of course, I will do some hiking/biking at the Tijuca Park !!! :lol:;)

Interesting to notice that some paulistas feel the same about cariocas who complain about Sao Paulo. It´s that kind of resentiment that doesn´t help anyone. In the process of modernization and economic growing that our country is passing throught right now, both cities need to work a lot to ensure that we won´t lose this opportunity to take Brazil to a higher place in importance for the world. I can´t imagine a developed Brazil without a developed Rio and a developed Sao Paulo.

Rio´s OG are for all the Brazililians . All the country must work to make it real as we all always dreamed and as all the world expect. Let´s not miss this chance to transform Rio and make it even better.

As for us paulistas, we still have our own challenges. Im sure that both the World Cup and the olympic Games will also be a factor of incentive for SP Government to finally to some work here too.

I hope since the race is over, the idiot paulistas (not you or Feheva, there are idiots in Rio too, and everywhere) leave this forum, since the idiot rivalry was not helping here.

As I said before I have a hate'n love relationship with Sao Paulo... and with it's people.

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BTW, Pedra Branca-Tijuca complex have 16,000+ ha (they are side-by-side)

As I said before here, it's the double of Cantareira and is entirely inside Rio de Janeiro municipality.

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parques_da_ci..._Rio_de_Janeiro

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São Paulo doesn't have what it takes to host the Olympics. It's too much of a packed city, just like London and Chicago, but without the beauty of man-made structures that you can find in those two. São Paulo is a really, really ugly city.

Of course I love it here, though. It has not only the best nightlife in Brazil, but one of the best in the world, up there with NY and London - that has got to count for something specially for someone my age. I would also not say that the crime here in SP is as bad as it is in Rio, since our anti-crime policies have been pretty efficient since 1999. And it also gives me the opportunity to study in the best university of Latin America. But it's just not a touristic destination. If I had to take you to something unique, all we could do is see some snakes in the Butantã.

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BTW, Pedra Branca-Tijuca complex have 16,000+ ha (they are side-by-side)

As I said before here, it's the double of Cantareira and is entirely inside Rio de Janeiro municipality.

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parques_da_ci..._Rio_de_Janeiro

Ok. But I was talking about a single park and not an entire complex.

Remember that Anhanguera/Horto Florestal/Cantareira/Jaragua/Varzeas do Tiete parks are also a complex that cover all northern part of Greater Sao Paulo. Varzeas do Tiete alone has about 11,000 ha, sum that 7916,52 ha of Cantareira, 174 ha of Horto, 8997 ha of Anhanguera etc.

It depends of the criteria used. But, as I said before, this is an useless and pointless discussion, and this is not the point of this topic. Let´s leave our the "bairrismo" aside.

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Pedra Branca Park, in Rio, is the largest urban forest in the world. And Tijuca Forest (in Rio too, the forest of the Christ Redeemer Statue) is the only urban forest in the world located in the "heart" of a great city, Rio.

Rio is fantastic. The most fantastic mix of urban-natural in the world.

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And I support Santiago de Chile, Buenos Aires and São Paulo for the next editions of the olympics in South America.

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I think that the logical options for ahother SOG is South America would be Buenos Aires and Santiago.

Sao Paulo would be ready to it only in 20-30 years and that´s too long. It would have to do the same that Rio did. First stage the Pan American Games (again) and then use it as a basis to a realistic Olympic project.

The sucess of Rio´s OG will be a platform for those cities. We may see games in South America in every 4 or 5 Olympic Games.

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