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it will be the most boring opening ceremony after atlanta :S

Fly over for a visit. There were some wonderful moments, but also quite a few disorganized looking head-scratchers. It wasn't terrible, but I have yet to speak to anyone on this side of the pond who

I will always see Beijings as a celebration that the Chinese beat their drums to the same beat and Londons a celebration that we each beat our drums to very different beats. Im certainly not trying

It's not that extraordinary. The idea of an English countryside setting was mooted by many as an obvious direction for a ceremony setting years before 2012, and having a central hill as a point of focus is kind of logical if you're going to do that. I'm inclined to put this one down to complete coincidence (something I'm not quite willing to do for the cauldron where I think there may have been some influence).

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And here's another one who claims that Danny Boyle stole his "Green and Pleasant" idea.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/culturenews/9685058/Artist-claims-Danny-Boyle-copied-London-2012-Olympic-opening-ceremony.html

Hmmmmm...I never trusted that Danny Boyle.

See my response today on the London Cauldron thread.

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It's not that extraordinary. The idea of an English countryside setting was mooted by many as an obvious direction for a ceremony setting years before 2012, and having a central hill as a point of focus is kind of logical if you're going to do that. I'm inclined to put this one down to complete coincidence (something I'm not quite willing to do for the cauldron where I think there may have been some influence).

I was inclined to be more forgiving of Green and Pleasant, but the more I look at it, the more I feel this is more than coincidence.

It's not just any hill, it's a very distinctive, tiered ziggurat of a hill. The scale of the plots of farmland is almost identical. The groupings of people are in almost exactly the same proportions. The color palette is virtually the same. The position, scale and style of the cottage is very close as well.

Really the only notable difference is that the ceremony set is oval whereas the previous sketch is not. That's the only meaningful difference.

As for the cauldron, I simply do not believe that LOCOG, Boyle and Heatherwick had not seen the prior proposal.

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As for the cauldron, I simply do not believe that LOCOG, Boyle and Heatherwick had not seen the prior proposal.

Could it be possible that a "fledging" (I wouldn't even say 'disgruntled') artist formerly with Atopia joined Heatherwick's firm at a certain strategic time? :blink: I mean doing a Bradley Manning or an Edward Snowden act seems to be very fashionable these days. Why isn't Julian Assange chiming in on this??? :angry:

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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Well, if we're going to kick Boyle and Co while they're down ...

The Mr Bean segment I loved and was one of my fave parts of the OC. But again, not exactly original:

Actually, is you've never seen this, do watch this (or even if you have already). It's quite funny. I first saw it years ago, and I still get a smile every time i see it.

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Have people seen Heatherwicks chalice design from 1992. Where items come together to form something bigger.

If these guys have a problem they should go about it the right way, that what bugs me the most. Stuff like these accusations stick, Either complain and take action in the right way, or leave it.

This is also on todays BD online:

Jackie Brock-Doyle, former director of communications at Locog, told BD that Atopia did not submit any images with its five-page written proposal for the One World pavilion in 2007.Asked about Atopia’s 29-page illustrated document on the Guardian website, she said: “That’s not what they submitted. We haven’t seen those images at all.”

http://www.bdonline.co.uk/news/thomas-heatherwick-outraged-by-olympic-plagiarism-row/5056643.article?PageNo=2&SortOrder=dateadded&PageSize=10#comments

When I went to the Bid logo briefing way back when as part of that brief they asked for logo designs and other ideas to promote the bid. I suggested the logo in a crop circle (which i saw in a 2012 document) and also a pavilion that travelled round the country in parts coming together in London to form a structure to celebrate the announcement of the winning bid.

People have similar ideas, thats just a fact

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The Mr Bean segment I loved and was one of my fave parts of the OC. But again, not exactly original:

Actually, is you've never seen this, do watch this (or even if you have already). It's quite funny. I first saw it years ago, and I still get a smile every time i see it.

The concept definitely needed development by somebody not French though!

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Have people seen Heatherwicks chalice design from 1992. Where items come together to form something bigger.

If these guys have a problem they should go about it the right way, that what bugs me the most. Stuff like these accusations stick, Either complain and take action in the right way, or leave it.

This is also on todays BD online:

Jackie Brock-Doyle, former director of communications at Locog, told BD that Atopia did not submit any images with its five-page written proposal for the One World pavilion in 2007.Asked about Atopia’s 29-page illustrated document on the Guardian website, she said: “That’s not what they submitted. We haven’t seen those images at all.”

http://www.bdonline.co.uk/news/thomas-heatherwick-outraged-by-olympic-plagiarism-row/5056643.article?PageNo=2&SortOrder=dateadded&PageSize=10#comments

When I went to the Bid logo briefing way back when as part of that brief they asked for logo designs and other ideas to promote the bid. I suggested the logo in a crop circle (which i saw in a 2012 document) and also a pavilion that travelled round the country in parts coming together in London to form a structure to celebrate the announcement of the winning bid.

People have similar ideas, thats just a fact

Ha. It was a written proposal. That's the smoking gun!

1. OK, so Jackie Brock-Doyle admits Atopia's submission was received by LOCOG.

2. OK, so what Atopia has released today is NOT exactly the same item-- still the germ(s) of the idea appears to be the same. Therefore,

3. Since it was NOT illustrated, someone at LOCOG had read it...and at some brain-storming session with the Ceremonies team suggested: how about this...and about that? So Boyle and Heatherwick now say that the whole process was a result of their brainstorming and discussion for months. Won't rebut that; but still an anonymous staffer--NOT unless they kept meticulous minutes of each meeting (which I very much doubt they do in these creative. brainstorming sessions), then it would be lost in whole hubub of enormous Olympic preparations. And if Atopia also did NOT speak out, no one would've known that the ideas might've indeed come from elsewhere..because the "pirate" source was an anonymous, faceless part of the team??

Ultimately though, this will amount to nothing because raw "ideas" cannot be copyrighted--not even say a unique fireworks explosion because it is ephemeral. People will always try to copyright all sorts of things but "ideas" or what was it, the human genome?--but there are certain things you cannot because they are NOT tangible. (Even the idea of copyrighting choreography is, to me, ridiculous.) But that is what this whole issue is about--a small sequence of ideas which happened only in one time and space. However, together with the "Glastonbury hill/mound" chapter, the similarities are just TOO obvious and on-point that the outside observer is left to draw his/her own conclusions.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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Actually, you can copyright more ideas than you think, but it gets expensive. At minimum you can say in writing, "by reviewing the following submission, you are agreeing to these terms..."

If you don't respect ideas, you don't respect the creative professional's bread and butter. Like I said, I wouldn't sign my life away just to make a submission on an Olympic project. Working for free is not ok unless you are truly offering yourself as a volunteer.

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Actually, you can copyright more ideas than you think, but it gets expensive. At minimum you can say in writing, "by reviewing the following submission, you are agreeing to these terms..."

If you don't respect ideas, you don't respect the creative professional's bread and butter. Like I said, I wouldn't sign my life away just to make a submission on an Olympic project. Working for free is not ok unless you are truly offering yourself as a volunteer.

Yeah. It's like signing on to any website or program...wherein u have a choice of agreeing to the terms or not. If not, then you're just not in. Also, u can't set the terms of the submission. U are only being asked to participate if you wish. [This is just like a renter in our complex who was all a-gush about wanting to volunteer. When we were ready to recruit her based on the Board's identified need, she then started setting the terms. :wacko: We were kinda stupefied. (And this is a person working at Kaiser.) We set the conditions, and facesaving-wise for her, she bowed out. Sadly for me, this nutcase is an immediate neighbor. ]

Also, last I checked there is no category in the Copyright offices for "Stadium-event" or "Super Bowl Halftime-type" ideas.

But the way I remember it though, either Vancouver and/or one other OCOG had a separate category for submissions from professional design shops like yours and Atopia. Rio 2016 sent out an RFP to leading Brazilian design firms. However, I did not pay attention to the particulars since I am not in that category.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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Yeah. It's like signing on to any website or program...wherein u have a choice of agreeing to the terms or not. If not, then you're just not in. Also, u can't set the terms of the submission. U are only being asked to participate if you wish. [This is just like a renter in our complex who was all a-gush about wanting to volunteer. When we were ready to recruit her based on the Board's identified need, she then started setting the terms. :wacko: We were kinda stupefied. (And this is a person working at Kaiser.) We set the conditions, and facesaving-wise for her, she bowed out. Sadly for me, this nutcase is an immediate neighbor. ]

Also, last I checked there is no category in the Copyright offices for "Stadium-event" or "Super Bowl Halftime-type" ideas.

But the way I remember it though, either Vancouver and/or one other OCOG had a separate category for submissions from professional design shops like yours and Atopia. Rio 2016 sent out an RFP to leading Brazilian design firms. However, I did not pay attention to the particulars since I am not in that category.

And how many creative RFPs have you responded to?

There is usually room for negotiation of the terms on the part of the creative agency. I know because I do it all the time. Almost every time the source of the RFP agrees.

You are right that if either party declines, the submission simply doesn't happen. There are projects I don't bid on. As I said in an earlier post, I would NEVER accept the terms you are describing, i.e. "Here are all our best ideas for free. You can do anything you want with them and there's no obligation to credit us or pay us." Why would any business agree to that? Everyone needs to make a living. This is not a charity and ideas don't grow on trees. If they did there would be no need for RFPs. I would never agree to those terms and I certainly wouldn't commit years of work to that type of arrangement. I doubt any sane person would.

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Have people seen Heatherwicks chalice design from 1992. Where items come together to form something bigger.

Yes I’ve seen the Hetherwick Challis and also read that he has insisted that it somehow PROVES the London Cauldron design was his alone, which makes absolutely NO scenes whatever. What a laughable excuse by Hetherwick, and only illustrates why “methinks he doth protests too much”.

1764242_029_ArtsAndBusiness1993_3.jpg

1764243_029_ArtsAndBusiness1993_2.jpg

This London project just seemed to get away from him, the entire design has many many questionable elements and choices that were made. It had the overall feeling that it wasn’t a completely finished vision; compromises may have been made due to unresolved design issues or physical requirements and poor choices resulted in lower impact than was possible, (I still wonder if this version was originally a prototype and that a larger version was not feasible due to time or structure issues). Though smallish, the elegant stems and petals were lovely and sexy in a 70s sculptural way. I wish they had just skipped Autopia’s idea of assembling them and just revealed a much larger stationary version that had more power and impact, one that was lit dramatically and remained so for the duration of the games as it should be. It’s still so unbelievable how the cauldron was treated by London; I heard all the reasons pomp and circumstance were left out of the ceremonies (mostly London’s FEAR of stereotype and rejection of it’s own traditions, no wonder the Queen was not impressed), but this was really just a big FU to us all and the games, and proved that this organization was unprepared to execute the ceremony with precision, planning and creativity.

Fear no more LOCOG……..you succeeded in smashing several key British stereotypes.

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Yes Ive seen the Hetherwick Challis and also read that he has insisted that it somehow PROVES the London Cauldron design was his alone, which makes absolutely NO scenes whatever. What a laughable excuse by Hetherwick, and only illustrates why methinks he doth protests too much.

1764242_029_ArtsAndBusiness1993_3.jpg

1764243_029_ArtsAndBusiness1993_2.jpg

This London project just seemed to get away from him, the entire design has many many questionable elements and choices that were made. It had the overall feeling that it wasnt a completely finished vision; compromises may have been made due to unresolved design issues or physical requirements and poor choices resulted in lower impact than was possible, (I still wonder if this version was originally a prototype and that a larger version was not feasible due to time or structure issues). Though smallish, the elegant stems and petals were lovely and sexy in a 70s sculptural way. I wish they had just skipped Autopias idea of assembling them and just revealed a much larger stationary version that had more power and impact, one that was lit dramatically and remained so for the duration of the games as it should be. Its still so unbelievable how the cauldron was treated by London; I heard all the reasons pomp and circumstance were left out of the ceremonies (mostly Londons FEAR of stereotype and rejection of its own traditions, no wonder the Queen was not impressed), but this was really just a big FU to us all and the games, and proved that this organization was unprepared to execute the ceremony with precision, planning and creativity.

Fear no more LOCOG..you succeeded in smashing several key British stereotypes.

Well said.

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And how many creative RFPs have you responded to?

How many Organizing Committees have you worked with?

(I entered the Beijing torch contest. I don't if that's technically an RFP.) As I said, I am not in the design business as you and others are professionally. But it doesn't mean I can't read the RFP rules as they are posted publicly.

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How many Organizing Committees have you worked with?

(I entered the Beijing torch contest. I don't if that's technically an RFP.) As I said, I am not in the design business as you and others are professionally. But it doesn't mean I can't read the RFP rules as they are posted publicly.

I'm quite literally laughing out loud.

Entering a torch relay contest and responding to an RFP are comparable? Wow.

Credibility. Out. The. Window.

I haven't bid on any Olympic projects and haven't answered an Olympic RFP. I can tell you that I've responded to plenty of others, though and there are almost always ways for the submitting entity to protect their work.

You're arguing that it's reasonable for a creative agency to supply original ideas over a period of years knowing they're under no obligation to be paid or credited if their ideas are used. I'm saying you don't have the first clue what you're talking about.

Fortunately, your last post makes that point abundantly clear.

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I have a question:

On the official Soundtrack CD is Frank Turner with "I still believe"

but when did he played it during the O.C. ?

Watched the OC last week again but couldn´t find it.

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I have a question:

On the official Soundtrack CD is Frank Turner with "I still believe"

but when did he played it during the O.C. ?

Watched the OC last week again but couldn´t find it.

For the stadium audience, and to an extent for some TV audiences, the O.C. began at 20:12 (with a fly-past by the Red Arrows aerobatic team), not 21:00. During those 48 minutes, the villagers in the "Green and Pleasant" land went about their work and leisure, speches were given, and various pieces of music were performed. The live musical performances can all be found as extras on the BBC 5-DVD 2012 Olympic box set; three songs by Frank Turner and a youth-orchestra performance of Elgar's "Nimrod" during which the stadium audience covered itself with huge sheets of blue cloth to represent the sea.

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If there had been a 30-second power failure, I wonder if there was a contingency plan for the first thing seen by the audience at the end of the 30 seconds to be a jumbotron view of Rowan Atkinson, holding a bunch of cables?

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If there had been a 30-second power failure, I wonder if there was a contingency plan for the first thing seen by the audience at the end of the 30 seconds to be a jumbotron view of Rowan Atkinson, holding a bunch of cables?

No. That's why there is the tape of the final dress rehearsal. That is what will run until power is/was restored.

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