Rhine-Ruhr 2032

[Booville]

Do members of the forum actually think this is an option that the IOC might seriously considered if officially put forward?

13 cities with an approximate distances of a maximum 160km between the furthest edges, excluding Kiel.

There are 16 existing stadiums of 30,000 seats, 24 large sports halls so 80%+ venues are already in place. 

The one missing component is the ever problematic Olympic Stadium - a potential remedy will be 1FC Koln. The Rhein Energy Stadium with a capacity of 50,000 seats is deemed too small. They want to expand to 75,000 seats. There are a number of issues with the expansion of the current site that would make it economically unviable to do so under an official assessment. The city which rents the stadium actually makes a loss due to the current capacity. The club have investigated the possibility of a private stadium near the A1 which provides great access.

The first argument against will be that fans will not accept an athletics stadium due to the poor viewing angles but in Europe it has already been demonstrated that an athletics stadium always planned to be converted to football (Etihad, Manchester) or one will moving seats (Stade de France) have worked whilst the Stade Pierre-Mauroy was designed for multiple configurations.

If 1.FC Koln and the city can come to an agreement alongside the bid committee to build a main site stadium, with the option of multiple configurations and maybe a rectractable roof and you have a happy football team (new stadium, increased revenues, limited building costs), a happy city with a multi use stadium which can bring in additional revenues to help offset any losses if the yo-yo football club continue to up and down and a solution to the Olympic Stadium issue.

 

 

 

[stryker]

The topic has been discussed in another thread. The stadium issue is the sticking point but if FC Koln wants a new privately owned stadium then I suppose that's a possible starting point. An even bigger hurdle would be the likelihood of a referendum across multiple locations. I'd like to see the DOSB give this a go as the concept would completely revolutionize SOGs bidding.

[StefanMUC]

7 hours ago, stryker said:

The topic has been discussed in another thread. The stadium issue is the sticking point but if FC Koln wants a new privately owned stadium then I suppose that's a possible starting point. An even bigger hurdle would be the likelihood of a referendum across multiple locations. I'd like to see the DOSB give this a go as the concept would completely revolutionize SOGs bidding.

But this thread does not have spelling errors in its title :-)

I'm not familiar actually with the concept of referendums in North-Rhine-Westphalia. There are differences between the various German states about that (and there's none for the whole country anyway). So maybe there wouldn't be a referendum anyway, but there's definitely A LOT of local rivalry between the cities involved all the time (Düsseldorf and Cologne make a point of pretending to hate each other, for example), so there is that to overcome TBW. I don't see it happening actually.

[Booville]

https://www.rheinruhrcity.com/catalog/en/

 

[StefanMUC]

5 hours ago, Booville said:

https://www.rheinruhrcity.com/catalog/en/

 

This is from 2017 AFAIK. Well-intended, but also a bit naive and full of (minor) errors both on facts (hello, two women football tournaments!), as well as linguistics (e.g. call wrestling a "discipline" on one page, and a "sport" on the next), that makes it look great on surface but if you dig into it, it's inconsistent to the point of annoying.

[yoshi]

Is this actually serious? I’d heard about there being looks into a bid but I don’t know if they’re taking it further to the IOC. Could be a very good concept, especially if they can find a way to handle the stadium. Apart from Bonn & Aachen I was actually surprised when I was there, just how close the cities are - it does feel like travelling through one big city. 

[StefanMUC]

19 hours ago, yoshi said:

Is this actually serious? I’d heard about there being looks into a bid but I don’t know if they’re taking it further to the IOC. Could be a very good concept, especially if they can find a way to handle the stadium. Apart from Bonn & Aachen I was actually surprised when I was there, just how close the cities are - it does feel like travelling through one big city. 

The people behind this are very serious about it, though more recently the PR company behind this has been much busier promoting some - at least partly - questionable Covid-19 studies that promote less strict measures and faster reopening (short summary, it is all a bit more complex of course).

I'm also not too convinced this has got any traction already in terms of widespread political and public support. The scepticism towards Olympics has not waned in Germany, and - again and again - Thomas Bach's role as Godfather of the IOC does not help at all. He's getting VERY bad press here, at least by all serious media, and that of course reflects on any bid.

I dare say that as long as he's in power, there's no chance of his home country changing this attitude. His personal ambitions have always been much more important to him anyway.

[yoshi]

What makes Bach so unpopular there - does it all come since he got the presidency or was he already disliked before - was he involved in dodgy dealings within Germany?

[munichfan]

Well, with 2032 basically off the table, Armin Laschet - Minister-President of North Rhine-Westphalia, Leader of Angela Merkel's CDU and her potential successor as chancellor - is keen to bring the Olympics to his state in 2036, instead. However, some serious disputes seem to have emerged between his state government and DOSB with Laschet accusing the latter of being unable to communicate with the IOC and thus unnecessarily having destroyed the 2032 bid. German Source

Now, 2036 is pretty much destined for Europe IMHO. However, another of these half-hearted attemps that we have seen from Germany in the past will probably not do the trick.

[FYI]

If no desirable Western European bid comes through for 2036, then it’ll go to Russia. Cause Putin will give the IOC whatever they want, if no one else will.

[StefanMUC]

3 hours ago, munichfan said:

Well, with 2032 basically off the table, Armin Laschet - Minister-President of North Rhine-Westphalia, Leader of Angela Merkel's CDU and her potential successor as chancellor - is keen to bring the Olympics to his state in 2036, instead. However, some serious disputes seem to have emerged between his state government and DOSB with Laschet accusing the latter of being unable to communicate with the IOC and thus unnecessarily having destroyed the 2032 bid. German Source

Now, 2036 is pretty much destined for Europe IMHO. However, another of these half-hearted attemps that we have seen from Germany in the past will probably not do the trick.

Laschet is - as always - making a total embarassment of himself. He tried to play strongman with Thomas Bach who probably laughed him off the phone yesterday. A shame that he is seriously frontrunner to succeed Merkel at the moment.

The only ones equally incompetent are of course the people running the DOSB since Bach took over the IOC. There is absolutely ZERO effort going on to convince a large part of the German population - or at least a large part in potential host cities - that having the Olympics is actually a good thing for country/region/city. Not made easier by the usual IOC shenanigans of course, but even if that 2032 bid had advanced further, it would never have survived a referendum. Pro Olympics PR in this country is non-existant.

[TorchbearerSydney]

Lots of chat about a 2036 German Games not being a good look (re 1936)

[munichfan]

5 hours ago, StefanMUC said:

Laschet is - as always - making a total embarassment of himself. He tried to play strongman with Thomas Bach who probably laughed him off the phone yesterday. A shame that he is seriously frontrunner to succeed Merkel at the moment.

The only ones equally incompetent are of course the people running the DOSB since Bach took over the IOC. There is absolutely ZERO effort going on to convince a large part of the German population - or at least a large part in potential host cities - that having the Olympics is actually a good thing for country/region/city. Not made easier by the usual IOC shenanigans of course, but even if that 2032 bid had advanced further, it would never have survived a referendum. Pro Olympics PR in this country is non-existant.

But hey, we've got an awesome national strategy for hosting major international events in the pipeli... oh wait, that one got stripped over party shenanigans as well this January.

My only hope is the soon-to-come events (2022 European Championships, UEFA Euro 2024 and presumably the 2025 Universiad) will help increase public support. There's nothing to expect from our officials, though.

Oh, how I would have loved to get to listen to that phonecall between Bach and Laschet.

[yoshi]

I'm not sure if the 36 might not be a a good thing for Germany... obviously there's the argument that it's not a good look, but it might be a compelling story - the first Olympics in the modern Germany, exactly 100 years since the darkest of all? Whatever happens, I'm not sure they've got the time to wait for 24 or even 22, if the IOC are almost operating a first come first served system with this. Where's the universiade going to be, that's the first I've heard of that - presumably Munich?

[munichfan]

Düsseldorf and the Rhine-Ruhr area. The project came originally up as part of the 2032 plans. The latest I've heard is they are up against Budapest, but the German bid is seen as the clear frontrunner. I did not find a single source in English, though.

I agree with you on 2036. As long as you don't have a chancellor Söder wave at the crowds at the Berlin stadium I don't see this as much of an issue.

[munichfan]

To be fair, they have waited months, maybe years to seal the deal in Lausanne. I don't remember exactly as to when Brisbane received government backing, but it feels like it was still in 2019. Correct me, if I'm wrong. And it's not like suitable European hosts are lining up eagerly right now (given you do not see Budapest as a desirable choice). So there should be ample time to get through the federal elections in September and sort things out, first.

[yoshi]

Interesting, are they going to use many of the venues they had lined up for the Olympic bid? And where will the athletics stadium be, that's the biggest venue problem - although obviously the universiade is a different proposition to the Olympics. Might provide a real spark for a bid, hopefully 2025 won't be too late for them though - if a Madrid or a Budapest comes in first and snatches the preferred spot, they'll be stuffed until it's Europe's turn again...

[munichfan]

https://www.adh.de/fileadmin/user_upload/adh.de/pdf/medien/publikationen/broschuere-u-25-online2020.pdf

I've found this brochure (unfortunately German only as well. See page 12 for the venue concept). Some of the venues that were part of the 2032 approach will come to use. However, the concept focuses more on second-tier venues rather than the large convertible football stadia like the Olympic bid had planned for. Athletics is destined to be held at Lohrheidestadion in Bochum, which is planned to be renovated and seat 17.000 afterwards. There isn't really much room for expansion and transport access is rather mediocre, so I guess it's no option for an Olympics.

[StefanMUC]

8 hours ago, yoshi said:

I'm not sure if the 36 might not be a a good thing for Germany... obviously there's the argument that it's not a good look, but it might be a compelling story - the first Olympics in the modern Germany, exactly 100 years since the darkest of all?

Uhm, that was the story of 1972 already...which of course got overshadowed sadly.

Bottom line is: working woth the IOC is not going to sell well with lots of voters here. Unless there‘s a visible and radical culture change in Lausanne, Olympics in Germany aren‘t happening. And the IOC won‘t be forced to do such change as long as they have China, Russia and Qatar lined up and sometimes an exceptionally eager initiative in SLC or Brisbane that serves as a fig leaf.

[munichfan]

So, DOSB have defended themselves, stating they told the IOC they did not want to participate in the dialogue stage as long as there has not been referendum, rather than - as the IOC let us know last week - they had no intention to enter the dialogue stage at this time.  Which sounds the same to me, but apparently makes all the difference for DOSB. 

There have been talks between North Rhine-Westphalia Minister President Laschet and DOSB president Hörmann this week. They agreed they want to presume their initiative "without any time pressure". Which basically shows they have still not understood what the reformed process is all about.

Hörmann also said he is doubtful there should be a bid for 2036 and explained the next bid might very well be for a Winter Games, instead.

So, I don't expect anything more to happen. This will go down in history as one of these (many) German ill-planned and ill-executed longshots with no long-term strategy behind. 

Source (German)

[StefanMUC]

They’re fools. Laschet, Hörmann, Mronz...all of them.

And now they want to push a winter bid again? The citizens of the only realistic candidate for that will surely love another attempt. As great as it would be to have another Munich Olympics, these people are completely delusional.

[munichfan]

I wonder, what had happened if they had gotten their act together - do you think they might have snatched 2032 and Australia would have gotten 2036 instead? The fact they made Brisbane official literally right after they received the no from DOSB makes me wonder they might actually have considered something like that. A present to both the president and his deputy.

Concerning a winter bid, there was this ludicrous idea of having Saxony and Thuringia host. Those folks might actually be crazy enough to give that a try. Then act pissed if the idea gets smashed. Then propose Buxtehude for the summer games six years later.

[yoshi]

Does Saxony have the required hill height? I must admit I only passed through the Leipzig area by train once, but it didn't really look all that mountainous...

[StefanMUC]

1 hour ago, yoshi said:

Does Saxony have the required hill height? I must admit I only passed through the Leipzig area by train once, but it didn't really look all that mountainous...

Of course not. The only mountains high enough in Germany are all in the Bavarian alps, basically it's Garmisch or bust when it comes to Alpine events. Thuringia and Saxony have a lot of winter sports tradition though in nordic sports and skating disciplines (think Katarina Witt) and there's two luge/bobsleigh tracks in Oberhof and Altenberg, that's where this pipe dream came from.

 

[yoshi]

I don't know much about Germany beyond having been around a few of the cities by train in 2019, but even I thought that seemed a bit odd lol But seriously, if the DOSB really wants an Olympics at all, surely they should stick with Rhein-Ruhr - keep the 2032 bid alive, just in case it all goes pear shaped with Brisbane, or to maybe force a double award. If not and they want 36, at least it puts the German foot in the door to maybe stop Madrid or Budapest running them over. Heck, the way he's been going on lately, I wouldn't even be surprised if Boris starts mumbling about a 2036 bid - weirder things have happened...