Almaty 2022 Won't Overspend

[GBModerator]

Officials of Almaty Kazakhstan's bid for the 2022 Winter Olympic Games said Thursday they have no plans to emulate the Sochi Olympics and will spend

View the full article

[Tony E Loves Architecture]

Well, for the Ceremonies, if they use the Medeo, that will need to be renovated and expanded. If not, they will need to build a 50,000 Seater Stadium. I think in one of the other threads, maybe Almaty 2022, @Lord David pointed out that Medeo won't host the Ceremonies, and Almaty 2022 will build a new 50,000 Seater Stadium. Plus, not all the venues are up to IOC standards, when you compare the standards are lower for the 2017 Winter Universiade. Also, a few venues will need to be built from scratch.

[FYI]

But that's what the IOC wants countries to do, is spend, spend & spend!

[Lord David]

It's either an expanded Central Stadium to 50,000 or a new Stadium at 50,000. Not Medeo.

[Tony E Loves Architecture]

It's either an expanded Central Stadium to 50,000 or a new Stadium at 50,000. Not Medeo.

Central Stadium would need a major Renovation and Expansion. Maybe, they should rebuild the Central Stadium, so that it's in the same spot, but a completely new stadium.

[FlaBadger]

I wouldn't assume that the Almaty bid would use Medeo at all. The cost of enclosing that facility would far exceed the cost of building an enclosed oval in the city, and likely at a more convenient location, even assuming that Medeo's existing refrigeration equipment is sufficiently reliable and wouldn't itself have to be replaced. There's no particular need or benefit to having an enclosed oval in the mountains. Best to leave Medeo as it is as a facility for recreational skating, outdoor festivals and such.

[Gangwon]

An ex-Soviet state? No thank you. I've had enough corruption to last me another length of a Cold War.

[FYI]

That's what I've been saying all along, despite some being gung-ho about this bid. Doesn't matter if Almaty is now trying to differentiate itself from Sochi with the costs. There's still so many other aspects & issues that would be so similar that the IOC surely has had enough of for the moment. I just don't see Kazahkstan as compelling enough for the IOC to want through all that sh!t again so soon.

[StefanMUC]

Why should anyone with a brain trust Kazakh officials on the matter of spending money? I have no doubt they'd go all out if need be. After all, they basically built a complete capital right in the middle of nowhere not too long ago.

[zekekelso]

Why should anyone with a brain trust Kazakh officials on the matter of spending money? I have no doubt they'd go all out if need be.

Is that a good thing, or a bad thing? I'm very confused on the board's general attitude on willingness to spend what it takes.

[intoronto]

Kazakhstan and Ukraine will likely leave Sochi with a bronze medal. That's it. Poland has 4 gold, China has 3, Norway is a winter power. I think the shortlist is clear.

[StefanMUC]

Is that a good thing, or a bad thing? I'm very confused on the board's general attitude on willingness to spend what it takes.

Can't speak for the whole board, but I see this as negative. Money should be spent wisely, even if you have billions of petrodollars available.

[FYI]

Kazahkstan wants to "show off" to the world, & that's their primary reason why they want the Winter Olympics in the first place, just like Putin did. So all their disingenuous rhetoric isn't going to change that now. If the popular trend was "spend as much as you can" then that's the spin that they'd be making instead. I never bought it, & still don't. They've yet to convince why they should get the Winter Olympics instead of "we want the games & we're the closest to the mountains".

[Lord David]

They won't get the Games, but they WILL make a candidate spot at the very least. Criticism from their 2014 bid where it was about "quality not quantity", should now be gone as they have some quality venues and are building more. To deny them a candidate spot just because it's too soon after Russia is wrong. Just eliminate them at the vote.

[FYI]

Just like it was "wrong" to deny Doha 2020 when they technically should've been on the short-list. And don't bring up the dates again, cuz the IOC said it was okay for the Qatari's to submit the bid with the October dates. And if they're not gonna win anyway, like you just said, then why string the Kazahks along. Isn't that what many criticize the IOC for, if certain bids aren't gonna win regardless, bcuz the IOC has their sights set somewhere else, then why make those futile bids spend all of their efforts.

Like 2020, I think the Executive Board is going to execute their responsibility to protect their brand. They can't allow for any possibility for the other members to be bamboozled by that oil rich nation, especially after the dealings with Sochi 2014. With three other credible bids on the 2022 table, & one of them being a clear, excellent option, there's no need for Lviv nor Almaty. The only way I can see Almaty being seriously considered is if Oslo withdraws. Otherwise, they're not needed no matter how many venues that they're still building anyway. Which then still goes against that they "won't overspend".

[Olympic Fan Darcy]

3 other credible bids? Really? If you're going to continuously attack Almaty don't try and call Beijing a credible bid. Joint host city, Beijing isn't hosting the snow events so it isn't just one event in a different city. It is a huge distance between the cities. Whoop dee doo it's China. They already had the games 6 years ago.

Don't bother with "Oslo is using distance" because this isn't China's only flaw. It would be Zhangjiakouif's first bid, you think they will be the first city to host both summer and winter? LET ALONE the fact that it will have only been 7 years since they hosted when 2022 is announced! Then there is all the huge issues they had when bidding for 2008, those problems didn't have a huge impact cause it was there first games, but will they really go back to China already? With the same city?

It is not a credible bid. Should not be shortlisted on it's first bid.

[FYI]

In comparison to Almaty, YEAH, it's credible! And you mean like you always "attack" Krakow & Beijing? "Whoop dee doo", WTF is so fu@king special about Almaty that you're so in LUV with it. You want another Sochi 2.0! "Whoop dee doo", so they're the closest to the mountains. Big whip. All the other bids are of equal distance to the mountains. "Whoop dee doo", they CO-hosted the much smaller winter Asian games & are gonna host some winter universaide. Woohoo.

And Kazachkstan only won ONE medal in 2010, & so far they've only won ONE BROZE medal for 2014. And for someone that likes to use the medal table against South Africa, you so conveniently overlook it when it comes to Kazachkstan. What fu@king double standards you have to say the least.

And as USUAL, you're interpreting what I say. I've NEVER said or claimed that Beijjng "will" win or that they're even a favorite. But in comparison to fricken Lviv & Almaty, they'd do what it takes to deliver the goods, just like they proved with the 2008 Summer Olympics. You've said it yourself before (conveniently against South Africa), they're a sport superpower & is the largest country on the planet. So no, it's not ill-conceivable for the Chinese to win a WINTER Olympics 7 years after they last hosted a SUMMER Olympics, especially if the competition is less than stellar. And if Oslo were to withdraw, that's exactly what it would be. So it'd be quite naive to so outright dismiss the Chinese in such a dire scenario. But WTF do you even know. I mean you were so in LUV with fricken Doha two years ago, so IDK why I even fricken bother! :-P

[FYI]

*MISinterpreting.

[Olympic Fan Darcy]

In comparison to Almaty, YEAH, it's credible! And you mean like you always "attack" Krakow & Beijing? "Whoop dee doo", WTF is so fu@king special about Almaty that you're so in LUV with it. You want another Sochi 2.0! "Whoop dee doo", so they're the closest to the mountains. Big whip. All the other bids are of equal distance to the mountains. "Whoop dee doo", they CO-hosted the much smaller winter Asian games & are gonna host some winter universaide. Woohoo.

And Kazachkstan only won ONE medal in 2010, & so far they've only won ONE BROZE medal for 2014. And for someone that likes to use the medal table against South Africa, you so conveniently overlook it when it comes to Kazachkstan. What fu@king double standards you have to say the least.

And as USUAL, you're interpreting what I say. I've NEVER said or claimed that Beijjng "will" win or that they're even a favorite. But in comparison to fricken Lviv & Almaty, they'd do what it takes to deliver the goods, just like they proved with the 2008 Summer Olympics. You've said it yourself before (conveniently against South Africa), they're a sport superpower & is the largest country on the planet. So no, it's not ill-conceivable for the Chinese to win a WINTER Olympics 7 years after they last hosted a SUMMER Olympics, especially if the competition is less than stellar. And if Oslo were to withdraw, that's exactly what it would be. So it'd be quite naive to so outright dismiss the Chinese in such a dire scenario. But WTF do you even know. I mean you were so in LUV with fricken Doha two years ago, so IDK why I even fricken bother! :-P

Seems like you're also misinterpreting what i'm saying. I'm not in love with Almaty, I would much rather Oslo to host and i'm not saying Almaty is amazing, you can go right ahead and hate Almaty however, then you should probably be hating on Zhangjiakou which has more flaws.

Would not even try to compare Lviv to Almaty with the deadly riots we have seen. Ukraine should have already bail on Lviv's bid.

Good god it's always Doha, Doha. Get over it, try to come up with something new.

You bitch and whine about the predicted budget blowout of Almaty yet it's not like Beijing was one of the cheaper games we've seen in recent games either!

Oh no! They only won one medal, never award them a games! I used that as a reason against South Africa along with many, many, many other negatives.

Do you think Almaty will be shortlisted? Do you think Zhangjiakou/Beijing will be shortlisted on their first winter bid? (if both Oslo and Krakow stay in the race)

I'm not flat out denying Beijing's chances. You act as if Almaty is as bad as Lviv and that Beijing is in with a chance and is much stronger than Almaty and I disagree.

[Lord David]

Just like it was "wrong" to deny Doha 2020 when they technically should've been on the short-list. And don't bring up the dates again, cuz the IOC said it was okay for the Qatari's to submit the bid with the October dates. And if they're not gonna win anyway, like you just said, then why string the Kazahks along. Isn't that what many criticize the IOC for, if certain bids aren't gonna win regardless, bcuz the IOC has their sights set somewhere else, then why make those futile bids spend all of their efforts.

Like 2020, I think the Executive Board is going to execute their responsibility to protect their brand. They can't allow for any possibility for the other members to be bamboozled by that oil rich nation, especially after the dealings with Sochi 2014. With three other credible bids on the 2022 table, & one of them being a clear, excellent option, there's no need for Lviv nor Almaty. The only way I can see Almaty being seriously considered is if Oslo withdraws. Otherwise, they're not needed no matter how many venues that they're still building anyway. Which then still goes against that they "won't overspend".

The IOC probably said it was "ok" for Qatar to have their proposed games in October just to avoid PR problems for the 2016 bid race, where they would have been criticized for not even giving Qatar a chance. They were wise to deny Doha in the 2020 bid race because they didn't want to look like corrupt FIFA (in potentially awarding them the games).

As for Almaty, they are technically capable now, they have much more now than what they offered for 2014. They took the smart approach and skipped the 2018 bid race. If they have everything going for them, why deny them a candidate spot just because you want to avoid Sochi 2.0? You deny them in the vote.

And if Oslo does bow out, that leaves Krakow and Beijing. Do you expect a boring 2 bid race now? With 4 bids to choose from now, you need that 3rd bidder to shake things up a little.

[FYI]

Seems like you're also misinterpreting what i'm saying. I'm not in love with Almaty,

Coulda fooled me, the way you're going on & on about them in their defense.

You bitch and whine about the predicted budget blowout of Almaty yet it's not like Beijing was one of the cheaper games we've seen in recent games either!

Oh no! They only won one medal, never award them a games! I used that as a reason against South Africa along with many, many, many other negatives.

It's NOT just about a predicted budget blowout, but also like you "bitch & whine" & say that it's not only about the medal table for South Africa, Almaty also has "many, many, many OTHER negatives" as well.

Good god it's always Doha, Doha. Get over it, try to come up with something new.

"Good, God", if you would only come up "with something new", instead of your incessant diatribe against the Chinese in favor of over-rated Almaty, then I wouldn't have to keep bringing Doha up since it's relevant in this scenario. Since it's exactly what you did then like you're doing now with this race, being all b!tchy about it.

Do you think Almaty will be shortlisted? Do you think Zhangjiakou/Beijing will be shortlisted on their first winter bid? (if both Oslo and Krakow stay in the race)

I'm not flat out denying Beijing's chances. You act as if Almaty is as bad as Lviv and that Beijing is in with a chance and is much stronger than Almaty and I disagree.

So what if it's Beijing's first winter bid. How many serious Winter bids did Sochi have on their belt, with absolutely NO venues on the ground, before they won. Geopolitically, Beijing is stronger than Almaty, plain & simple. It's been cited over & over again by many here why that is, but you don't seem to get it, as usual. So they have some pollution. Okay, big deal. Sochi 2014 was almost a Spring Games instead of Winter Olympics. Kazahkstan doesn't have unrest like the Ukraine does ATM, but it's certainly not a very attractive option either, not like you're trying to paint it. Not to mention other reasons which have been cited already but I'm not going through them again for the umpteeth time.

Look, you don't have to agree with me, nor am I asking you to. But at the same time, I don't have to agree with you. If you disagree, fine. "Get over it". But stop acting like a middle-aged version of Tony E. with your b!tchy attitude, cuz I'm so over it already.

[Lord David]

Sochi seriously attempted for 2002, but were not shortlisted.

[FYI]

The IOC probably said it was "ok" for Qatar to have their proposed games in October just to avoid PR problems for the 2016 bid race, where they would have been criticized for not even giving Qatar a chance. They were wise to deny Doha in the 2020 bid race because they didn't want to look like corrupt FIFA (in potentially awarding them the games).

Ummm, but they still didn't give them a 'chance'. Not being on the ballot is not a chance. And exactly, "corruption". Key word there, especially with that word being all associated with Sochi 2014. Surely the IOC doesn't want to continue that peception, especially with caliber potential bidders like Munich, St. Moritz & Stockholm literally running the other way.

As for Almaty, they are technically capable now, they have much more now than what they offered for 2014. They took the smart approach and skipped the 2018 bid race. If they have everything going for them, why deny them a candidate spot just because you want to avoid Sochi 2.0? You deny them in the vote.

AGAIN, why string the Kazahks along, if you're still gonna "deny them in the vote". Why let them waste all of their efforts on a futile attempt then? Since that's what some here potentially criticize the IOC for when it comes to New Frontier bids, i.e. South America, South Africa. Why should anyone else bother. All you want is that fourth bid book, that's all you care about.

Sochi seriously attempted for 2002, but were not shortlisted.

Yeah, but they weren't "seriously" considered precisely bcuz they weren't short-listed. So further work stops there.

And if Oslo does bow out, that leaves Krakow and Beijing. Do you expect a boring 2 bid race now? With 4 bids to choose from now, you need that 3rd bidder to shake things up a little.

Uhh, that's EXACTLY what I said from my last post! "The only way I could see Almaty being seriously considered is IF Oslo withdraws". Geez, you're almost as bad as the other one.

[Olympic Fan Darcy]

Coulda fooled me, the way you're going on & on about them in their defense.

It's NOT just about a predicted budget blowout, but also like you "bitch & whine" & say that it's not only about the medal table for South Africa, Almaty also has "many, many, many OTHER negatives" as well.

"Good, God", if you would only come up "with something new", instead of your incessant diatribe against the Chinese in favor of over-rated Almaty, then I wouldn't have to keep bringing Doha up since it's relevant in this scenario. Since it's exactly what you did then like you're doing now with this race, being all b!tchy about it.

So what if it's Beijing's first winter bid. How many serious Winter bids did Sochi have on their belt, with absolutely NO venues on the ground, before they won. Geopolitically, Beijing is stronger than Almaty, plain & simple. It's been cited over & over again by many here why that is, but you don't seem to get it, as usual. So they have some pollution. Okay, big deal. Sochi 2014 was almost a Spring Games instead of Winter Olympics. Kazahkstan doesn't have unrest like the Ukraine does ATM, but it's certainly not a very attractive option either, not like you're trying to paint it. Not to mention other reasons which have been cited already but I'm not going through them again for the umpteeth time.

Look, you don't have to agree with me, nor am I asking you to. But at the same time, I don't have to agree with you. If you disagree, fine. "Get over it". But stop acting like a middle-aged version of Tony E. with your b!tchy attitude, cuz I'm so over it already.

Yeah sure. China's only issue is some air pollution. Clearly you're just being completely ignorant.

I don't even know what else to say if you seriously think Beijing/Zhangjiakou is a credible bid. I'm so over arguing with you and you flat out ignoring it all and simply saying it's China, it's China.

[FYI]

That's right, Tony D. I keep forgetting that you know everything & aren't "ignorant" whatsoever, since you've been following these things since you were a toddler. And good, I'm glad that "you're done arguing about it". Cuz I'm so done "arguing" with your expertise on the matter.