TORONTO 2016

[Stu]

Again... :shocked:  Let's look at the death count...

Mexico 1968 - 300+ (est)

Munich 1972 - 14

Atlanta 1996 - 1 (the Turkish photographer suffered a heart attack -- I suppose that's Atlanta's fault, too)

London 2005 - 57

Gee, that's TERRIBLE that only 1 person was killed in Atlanta!  Why not more?

This thread has gone totally bizarre!  

Most of the above events have absolutely nothing to do with the Olympics and didn't even take place while the Games were being held, in London's case 7 years before - is every suspicious death in London until the Games are over going to be included in this "League of Olympic Deaths" total - that's just ridiculous!

Where the deaths are unfortunately associated with the Olympics, in Munich and Atlanta, there's also little that could have been done beforehand to prevent it.  In 1972 who could have predicted that Palestinian Terrorists would kidnap and murder Israeli athletes, nothing like it had ever happened before, neither Germany nor the Olympic movement had any history of this kind of terrorism - I'm sure extremely tight security around Olympic villages would have been considered a waste of money by any host city anywhere in the world - it had never been needed before.  The German authorities reaction can be called into question but this is with hindsight, I doubt any police force anywhere in 1972 could/would have handled that situation any differently and the consequences would have been exactly the same.

Atlanta is another example of a tragic event that couldn't really be avoided, the world has quite a few mentally imballanced people in it, trying to stop a lone idiot from doing something stupid is virtually impossible.  Security at the Park could have been increased but it was a city centre park with only a peripheral cultural link to the Games - if the idiot hadn't had exploded his bomb in the park he would have done it in the security queues outside with similar effect anyway and still got worldwide coverage for an Olympic bombing.

Governments and the intelligence and emergency services can only do so much preparation to try and stay one step ahead - the rest is luck.  There could easily have been a massacre in Montreal instead of Munich or a lone bomber in Sydney instead of Atlanta.

[baron-pierreIV]

Thank you, Stu, for turning it around.

What really gets me is how people constantly harp on one unfortunate, unavoidable death -- which like any stunts other deranged people would pull on the marathon route --  as you said, could have easily happened any other time, at another more deadly location.  Wait until somebody throws a crowbar on the bobsled run and see what ensues.

[NewYork2016]

Honestly, Toronto being in a position to be an alternative to a US city to represent in North America, won't even be the case if the USA is not the USA of today. Meaning without the USA, Toronto won't even be as strong a candidate compared to when the USA is its neighbor. Toronto would just be another city in Asia/Oceania or Europe.

One more thing, Toronto is in between the Midwest and Northeast US Megalopolies. One more reason Toronto is in such great position. Take all of them out, Toronto would just be another ordinary city in Europe or Asia.

[Stu]

Honestly, Toronto being in a position to be an alternative to a US city to represent in North America, won't even be the case if the USA is not the USA of today. Meaning without the USA, Toronto won't even be as strong a candidate compared to when the USA is its neighbor. Toronto would just be another city in Asia/Oceania or Europe.

One more thing, Toronto is in between the Midwest and Northeast US Megalopolies. One more reason Toronto is in such great position. Take all of them out, Toronto would just be another ordinary city in Europe or Asia.

Sorry? :shocked:

[NewYork2016]

Honestly, Toronto being in a position to be an alternative to a US city to represent in North America, won't even be the case if the USA is not the USA of today. Meaning without the USA, Toronto won't even be as strong a candidate compared to when the USA is its neighbor. Toronto would just be another city in Asia/Oceania or Europe.

One more thing, Toronto is in between the Midwest and Northeast US Megalopolies. One more reason Toronto is in such great position. Take all of them out, Toronto would just be another ordinary city in Europe or Asia.

Sorry? :shocked:

I'm sorry, but I was just too lazy to look for the post that I want to respond to.  

Anyway, here was the post I'm referring to.

I also have to bring up the point about how the IOC needs the U.S. to bring in vasts amount of money by having the U.S. host. If for some reason, IOC members still do not wish to have another Olympic games in the U.S. for 2016 but still wants to capitalize on the U.S. market, the closest and most viable country is Canada. Just look at how much money Vancouver will bring the IOC. Toronto is directly in the Eastern timezone. Perfect time to broadcast things live to the Canadian, American, Mexican and South American countries which account for a large portion of television viewership. I'm sure the IOC won't make as much money if it was hosted in the U.S. instead but Canada is a strong viable replacement with much of the same benefits that an American city would bring to the table.

It was from dave199 page one.

Sorry if you didn't understand what I've posted...    :unclesam:

[dave199]

NewYork2016, I still don't understand your post. Please elaborate on it and make it more clear.

[afransen]

I think his point: hypothetically, if the USA didn't exist, Canada would be different.

Hats off to you, Captain Obvious.

[afransen]

OK, I repeat...

1972 - deaths in Munich.  Olympic Village breached; participating Israeli athletes murdered in their own rooms.  Not to mention a few more killed at the airport.

2005 - 57 people killed all over London while the city was still celebrating its win of the 2012 Games.  So, LOCOG should've secured the whole city and placed the entire population of the London metropolitan area under lockdown.  Don't ya think so?

2006 - Torino closing.  Under the heavily guarded COmmunale stadium, with tons and layers of security:  unknown and unauthorized person approaches the podium while the Italian President is giving his farewell remarks.  Actually gets to within inches of the President; attempts to blurt something into the mikes and/or snatches microphones.  Possibly, he could've had a more sinister purpose, and certainly could've spilled Mr. President's guts in front of the whole world if he wanted to.  :shocked:

Now why weren't these other locations penalized?  Because your arguments are specious.

You forgot to include the Canadian in a tutu and the mad Irish priest who breached security at Athens.  THOSE events occurred at actual Olympic venues.  :glare:

This is just smoke and mirrors, looking at one incident that occurred in a public area to try and discredit any future bids from the U.S.

Now of course, if Berlin decides to bid in the near future everyone would be all over it in favor!  But since this is the U.S. we're talking about there are some that will find any excuse to discredit any future bids.  Sad really.  

Never mind, of course, that Los Angeles and Salt Lake City both were highly successful, posted revenues and in the case of L.A., helped save the Olympic movement from extinction.

Unlike Canada's attempts at hosting a games (except for Calgary, of course).  Let's face it - if Vancouver 2010's cost overruns continue to rise at the rate they currently are, any shot for Toronto will be gone with the wind.  Much like Vancouver's first and second bids in 1976 and 1980 were scuttled when Montreal's debt and overruns went into the hemisphere, and why, when Denver pulled out in 1976 and Vancouver was offered to step in, they refused.

I think Vancouver's cost overruns are being blown out of proportion.

Beyond that, I don't see it mattering. BC/Canada won't care if the Games run over budget...

[dave199]

OK, I repeat...

1972 - deaths in Munich.  Olympic Village breached; participating Israeli athletes murdered in their own rooms.  Not to mention a few more killed at the airport.

2005 - 57 people killed all over London while the city was still celebrating its win of the 2012 Games.  So, LOCOG should've secured the whole city and placed the entire population of the London metropolitan area under lockdown.  Don't ya think so?

2006 - Torino closing.  Under the heavily guarded COmmunale stadium, with tons and layers of security:  unknown and unauthorized person approaches the podium while the Italian President is giving his farewell remarks.  Actually gets to within inches of the President; attempts to blurt something into the mikes and/or snatches microphones.  Possibly, he could've had a more sinister purpose, and certainly could've spilled Mr. President's guts in front of the whole world if he wanted to.  :shocked:

Now why weren't these other locations penalized?  Because your arguments are specious.

You forgot to include the Canadian in a tutu and the mad Irish priest who breached security at Athens.  THOSE events occurred at actual Olympic venues.  :glare:

This is just smoke and mirrors, looking at one incident that occurred in a public area to try and discredit any future bids from the U.S.

Now of course, if Berlin decides to bid in the near future everyone would be all over it in favor!  But since this is the U.S. we're talking about there are some that will find any excuse to discredit any future bids.  Sad really.  

Never mind, of course, that Los Angeles and Salt Lake City both were highly successful, posted revenues and in the case of L.A., helped save the Olympic movement from extinction.

Unlike Canada's attempts at hosting a games (except for Calgary, of course).  Let's face it - if Vancouver 2010's cost overruns continue to rise at the rate they currently are, any shot for Toronto will be gone with the wind.  Much like Vancouver's first and second bids in 1976 and 1980 were scuttled when Montreal's debt and overruns went into the hemisphere, and why, when Denver pulled out in 1976 and Vancouver was offered to step in, they refused.

I think Vancouver's cost overruns are being blown out of proportion.

Beyond that, I don't see it mattering. BC/Canada won't care if the Games run over budget...

Bread not Circuses will care..LOL!! Does Vancouver have their own division of this anti-olympic opposition group?

[Kenadian]

Sure do.  Chris Shaw, 2010 No Games Coalition.  He's with the Green Party.

They campaigned against the Games during the city wide vote but kind of accepted their fate and are acting as a watchdog now.

[Expect the World]

Mexico 1968 - 300+ (est)

Munich 1972 - 14

Atlanta 1996 - 1 (the Turkish photographer suffered a heart attack -- I suppose that's Atlanta's fault, too)

London 2005 - 57

You might as well count 9/11, the Spanish 9/11, the Moscow theatre bombings by Chechens for 2012 while you're at it. Sheesh! What's your point? Like I said these event have nothing to do with the Olympics!

[LA84]

Beyond that, I don't see it mattering. BC/Canada won't care if the Games run over budget...

Really?  :shocked:  Perhaps I misunderstood.  I thought the people of Quebec weren't happy that it took them 30 years to pay for Montreal.  I didn't realize they didn't care.

My mistake. :hmm:

I also have to bring up the point about how the IOC needs the U.S. to bring in vasts amount of money by having the U.S. host. If for some reason, IOC members still do not wish to have another Olympic games in the U.S. for 2016 but still wants to capitalize on the U.S. market, the closest and most viable country is Canada. Just look at how much money Vancouver will bring the IOC. Toronto is directly in the Eastern timezone. Perfect time to broadcast things live to the Canadian, American, Mexican and South American countries which account for a large portion of television viewership. I'm sure the IOC won't make as much money if it was hosted in the U.S. instead but Canada is a strong viable replacement with much of the same benefits that an American city would bring to the table.

It was from dave199 page one.

Sorry if you didn't understand what I've posted...    :unclesam:

Actually, there is a bigger threat to a 2016 Toronto - and to a lesser extent U.S. bid if Monterrey or Guadalahara make good on their interest in hosting, for these very reasons.  The IOC went to Mexico City in '68 as an alternative to Detroit.  I could see them doing it again since the U.S. and Canada have already hosted a lot of games. That and it would silence the critics who see the games being awarded over and over to Anglo countries.  

Quote  

Mexico 1968 - 300+ (est)

Munich 1972 - 14

Atlanta 1996 - 1 (the Turkish photographer suffered a heart attack -- I suppose that's Atlanta's fault, too)

London 2005 - 57

You might as well count 9/11, the Spanish 9/11, the Moscow theatre bombings by Chechens for 2012 while you're at it. Sheesh! What's your point? Like I said these event have nothing to do with the Olympics!

I think that Munich, 1972 did have something to do with the Olympics.

Which brings me to my question again.  Do you think that if Berlin were to bid that the IOC should dismiss it because of what happened in Munich?

[Stu]

The Atlanta park bombing was very unfortunate but it isn't the reason that most people give for the lukewarm response to the 1996 Games.  The mistakes made during the Games in important areas such as transport (by awarding contracts to the cheapest instead of the best) where people were drafted in to drive officials and athletes to venues without any knowledge of Atlanta, inevitably getting lost and late.  Also the tacky merchandising everywhere - everyone cashing in on the Olympics......it looked ugly.

The world's attitude to the Atlanta Games though shouldn't put off another American city from bidding for future Games - all future hosts are obliged to learn from their predecessors mistakes and a US city will be just as aware of the general view of Atlanta as the rest of us.

[Expect the World]

The Atlanta park bombing was very unfortunate but it isn't the reason that most people give for the lukewarm response to the 1996 Games.  The mistakes made during the Games in important areas such as transport (by awarding contracts to the cheapest instead of the best) where people were drafted in to drive officials and athletes to venues without any knowledge of Atlanta, inevitably getting lost and late.  Also the tacky merchandising everywhere - everyone cashing in on the Olympics......it looked ugly.

The world's attitude to the Atlanta Games though shouldn't put off another American city from bidding for future Games - all future hosts are obliged to learn from their predecessors mistakes and a US city will be just as aware of the general view of Atlanta as the rest of us.

Ever since Los Angeles '84, the Olympics have been a scary example of consumer fetishism. Everybody wanted a piece of Olympic history by stocking up on crappy t-shirts and plush dolls, that they don't seem to know what the hell are they buying! Atlanta's Olympics was simply the worst example of this consumer fetishism. I don't want to be rude to the groups who collect Olympic memorabilia, but because of this idea, the Olympics are no longer special in a sense that spectators neglect the spirit, determination, and hard work by the athletes and coaches. That is the real true testament of the games and NOT merchandise! I myself will not be driven to collect unecessary items which would end up in the garbage dump somewhere in Michigan! I'm just not one of the those people!

[mr.x]

OK, I repeat...

1972 - deaths in Munich.  Olympic Village breached; participating Israeli athletes murdered in their own rooms.  Not to mention a few more killed at the airport.

2005 - 57 people killed all over London while the city was still celebrating its win of the 2012 Games.  So, LOCOG should've secured the whole city and placed the entire population of the London metropolitan area under lockdown.  Don't ya think so?

2006 - Torino closing.  Under the heavily guarded COmmunale stadium, with tons and layers of security:  unknown and unauthorized person approaches the podium while the Italian President is giving his farewell remarks.  Actually gets to within inches of the President; attempts to blurt something into the mikes and/or snatches microphones.  Possibly, he could've had a more sinister purpose, and certainly could've spilled Mr. President's guts in front of the whole world if he wanted to.  :shocked:

Now why weren't these other locations penalized?  Because your arguments are specious.

You forgot to include the Canadian in a tutu and the mad Irish priest who breached security at Athens.  THOSE events occurred at actual Olympic venues.  :glare:

This is just smoke and mirrors, looking at one incident that occurred in a public area to try and discredit any future bids from the U.S.

Now of course, if Berlin decides to bid in the near future everyone would be all over it in favor!  But since this is the U.S. we're talking about there are some that will find any excuse to discredit any future bids.  Sad really.  

Never mind, of course, that Los Angeles and Salt Lake City both were highly successful, posted revenues and in the case of L.A., helped save the Olympic movement from extinction.

Unlike Canada's attempts at hosting a games (except for Calgary, of course).  Let's face it - if Vancouver 2010's cost overruns continue to rise at the rate they currently are, any shot for Toronto will be gone with the wind.  Much like Vancouver's first and second bids in 1976 and 1980 were scuttled when Montreal's debt and overruns went into the hemisphere, and why, when Denver pulled out in 1976 and Vancouver was offered to step in, they refused.

I think Vancouver's cost overruns are being blown out of proportion.

Beyond that, I don't see it mattering. BC/Canada won't care if the Games run over budget...

Exactly.  Vancouver has venue cost overruns only because the B.C. economy is on its biggest boom since Expo '86 and because we're right next to Asian economy.  Asia's booming market is buying a ton of steel, concrete.....driving the cost of materials through the roof.  And there's a lot of projects here at home that are driving the costs up.  There's also the labour scenario.  With so many private and public projects going on, no skilled worker is left unemployed or underpayed.

So Vancouver's cost overruns really aren't self-inflicted at all.

[SOlympiadsW]

there are just so many stupid things (by one poster in particular) in this thread that have been said so many times before taht I am not going to even waist my time adressing them because it has become a lost cause.....

what it all boils down to is this...you can bring up all the ludicrous, ridiculous, and trivial things as to why the US should never host the Olympics again because it is corrupt an "evil nation" etc.......the US if they put forward a top notch city (which I am sure they will after a careful selection process) will stand an EXCELLENT chance of winning...half of the garbage you bring up is either exaggerated and the thing you bring up that are true are likely to be overlooked by the IOC....as for Toronto nothing will defeat the fact that Vancouver has 2010, if Canada wantetd 2016 they knew what they had to do, Toronto is unlikely to win 2016 be it against the USA, Japan, European nations, etc.....

keep bringing up all the irrelevant trash you want, nothing will change this fact

[baron-pierreIV]

Mexico 1968 - 300+ (est)

Munich 1972 - 14

Atlanta 1996 - 1 (the Turkish photographer suffered a heart attack -- I suppose that's Atlanta's fault, too)

London 2005 - 57

You might as well count 9/11, the Spanish 9/11, the Moscow theatre bombings by Chechens for 2012 while you're at it. Sheesh! What's your point? Like I said these event have nothing to do with the Olympics!

Actually, you're over-reaching my friend.  Why don't you read Wallachinsky's books on both the Summer and Winter Games?  His books are the definitive source book on Olympic history.  

If not, then why did you claim Atlanta's bombing has soiled America's reputation as an Olympic host?  You stated that.  

You're not consistent; you can't have it both ways you know.

[Expect the World]

what it all boils down to is this...you can bring up all the ludicrous, ridiculous, and trivial things as to why the US should never host the Olympics again because it is corrupt an "evil nation" etc.......the US if they put forward a top notch city (which I am sure they will after a careful selection process) will stand an EXCELLENT chance of winning...half of the garbage you bring up is either exaggerated and the thing you bring up that are true are likely to be overlooked by the IOC....as for Toronto nothing will defeat the fact that Vancouver has 2010, if Canada wantetd 2016 they knew what they had to do, Toronto is unlikely to win 2016 be it against the USA, Japan, European nations, etc.....

SOlympiadW, I can't blame you for the US putting a top notch bid. But from where I stand here in a suburb of Ancaster, Ontario, Canada. The US is using the Olympics as a propaganda machine just like Nazi Germany did!

They're using the Olympics to show the whole world that they too believe in peace, love, and understanding. Who wouldn't! But apparently, for the next generation of Americans this won't be the case. It is scary for the next generation to face the problems in this decade alone.

America is using trillions of dollars for funding the war effort in Iraq and the war on terrorism. Corporate companies are making money off of it from the arms and supplies going to Iraq and Afghanistan. From nuclears weapon, to rifles, to bombs, this imperialism dating back to 1961 continues to grow to this day.

All the money that was spent outrageously by the US government, should have been spent to end the AIDS crisis, cancelling debt, promote trade, and ending poverty in the world's poorest countries. But alas, your country concentrated your resources into the Middle East, preemptively took over Iraq, and unilaterally going against the UN and all that the organization stands for.

And the shocking thing is, that it will take 10 years for Iraq to recover from the burdens of history, from the life that they once have, and the civil unrest. What was once peace, love, understanding has been replaced with hate, greed, and ignorance.

Is this the America that is capable, morally, to host the Olympics? I truly don't think so.

I know for a fact that the IOC is not stupid. After all, New York lost to London for 2012. Which proves once and for all the US can be beaten in this game. Mr. Rogge along with other members including Dick Pound, are trying their best to end this corruption with within the IOC. And take back the Olympics to what once was...Peace, Love, Understanding. Humanity.

[SOlympiadsW]

I'm not even commeting on your post, it isn't even worht it you are a complete fool...do I sense possibly kerry's first alias?

[Kenadian]

What?  That is just nonsense.

OK, we all get it.  You cannot live without an Olympic Games in Toronto.  Even though the local government isn't interested, even though the Canadian Olympic Committee is focused on Vancouver 2010 and not 2016, even though most Ontarians would rather have the money spent on new roads, better schools and improved health care, even though many other cities with as much chance and ability as Toronto may be in the run, and even though you don't seem to really understand what the Olympics are and how they work, go ahead - form a citizens committee, petition your mayor and demand that Toronto bid for the 2016 Olympic Games.

Report back now and then to let us know how you are doing in that.

[HFB-Melbourne]

what it all boils down to is this...you can bring up all the ludicrous, ridiculous, and trivial things as to why the US should never host the Olympics again because it is corrupt an "evil nation" etc.......the US if they put forward a top notch city (which I am sure they will after a careful selection process) will stand an EXCELLENT chance of winning...half of the garbage you bring up is either exaggerated and the thing you bring up that are true are likely to be overlooked by the IOC....as for Toronto nothing will defeat the fact that Vancouver has 2010, if Canada wantetd 2016 they knew what they had to do, Toronto is unlikely to win 2016 be it against the USA, Japan, European nations, etc.....

SOlympiadW, I can't blame you for the US putting a top notch bid. But from where I stand here in a suburb of Ancaster, Ontario, Canada. The US is using the Olympics as a propaganda machine just like Nazi Germany did!

They're using the Olympics to show the whole world that they too believe in peace, love, and understanding. Who wouldn't! But apparently, for the next generation of Americans this won't be the case. It is scary for the next generation to face the problems in this decade alone.

America is using trillions of dollars for funding the war effort in Iraq and the war on terrorism. Corporate companies are making money off of it from the arms and supplies going to Iraq and Afghanistan. From nuclears weapon, to rifles, to bombs, this imperialism dating back to 1961 continues to grow to this day.

All the money that was spent outrageously by the US government, should have been spent to end the AIDS crisis, cancelling debt, promote trade, and ending poverty in the world's poorest countries. But alas, your country concentrated your resources into the Middle East, preemptively took over Iraq, and unilaterally going against the UN and all that the organization stands for.

And the shocking thing is, that it will take 10 years for Iraq to recover from the burdens of history, from the life that they once have, and the civil unrest. What was once peace, love, understanding has been replaced with hate, greed, and ignorance.

Is this the America that is capable, morally, to host the Olympics? I truly don't think so.

I know for a fact that the IOC is not stupid. After all, New York lost to London for 2012. Which proves once and for all the US can be beaten in this game. Mr. Rogge along with other members including Dick Pound, are trying their best to end this corruption with within the IOC. And take back the Olympics to what once was...Peace, Love, Understanding. Humanity.

And you think London is any better? The UK is in Iraq too. So is Australia-was it capable of hosting a moral olympics? The Greeks are hardly bastions of peace, and what about the Communist dictatorship that is China? Should Beijing host the games? EVERY SINGLE HOST, EVERY host, has used the games as propaganda. Sydney most certainly did. Barcelona oozed with it. Los Angeles was a bit over the top, but Seoul was no better. Montreal, Munich, St. Louis, Moscow, Melbourne, Tokyo, Rome, Atlanta, Athens, Mexico City, London, Amsterdam...they all stunk of it. The olympics put a city and a country on show. If they didn't, there'd be no point spending billions on hosting them.

From where I stand in a suburb of Melbourne, Victoria, Australia; America isn't perfect. Bush is a bit of a p-r-*-c-k. Some of their policies are infuriating.

But, despite it's many, many problems, the USA is still the most powerful democracy in the world, and without it, the world would be a significantly less free place.

Yes, I'm irritated that there is a new starbucks down the street from me and the local cafe just closed.

I'm annoyed that Vegemite is owned by a US tobacco company.

I didn't approve of the invasion of Iraq.

The extreme level of symbol-bases jingoism in the US is, at times, sickening.

Their gun laws are awful, their health services no better, and their corporations far too powerul.

But beyond all this, beyond the brashness, the ignorance, the agressiveness, Americans are good people. America is a good country.

And an American games would certainly be more 'moral' then one in China.

BTW, this was REALLY offensive:

"What was once peace, love, understanding has been replaced with hate, greed, and ignorance."

Saddam was shrewd, so maybe the understanding comment is truthful. But peaceful? Loving?

Open your eyes, mate. The leftist rhetoric spouted at you is no better then anything from the right. The US serves it's own national interests, as does every country in the world-including Canada. America is also one of the most giving nations on earth, both at a public and private level. Sure, they want something in return, but so does every country. Do you think the Canuck gov't sends wheat to Africa purely out of the goodness of their hearts? If you do, you might need to study government and politics a bit more.

An American city would be an EXCELLENT host of the games. Toronto would be, too.

I'd like Toronto to get it, but if it's an American city, I will be celebrating that at least the propaganda that will certainly be a part of it, and that will strengthen the jingoism and attitude of superiority as well as favourability to the government, will not be in a country less sympathetic to the ideals of freedom and democracy, like Russia, or China, or Singapore.

(Sorry if that was a bit rambling, but tis guy is really starting to irk me)

[Expect the World]

What was once peace, love, understanding has been replaced with hate, greed, and ignorance."

I was relating to the US when I said that. Sorry if I offended anyone.

[Kenadian]

New York City was not the first time the USA lost a bid for the Summer Olympic Games.

If you look at history, the USA only WON the Summer Olympic Games once.  Atlanta 1996.

The 1904 Games were assigned to the USA, first Chicago and then St. Louis.  The 1932 Games were also assigned to Los Angeles after the city's unsuccessful bids to host 1924 and 1928 and LA got its second Games in 1984 because no other city on planet Earth wanted them.

The USA lost bids for 1916, 1920, 1928, 1944, 1948, 1952, 1956, 1960, 1964, 1968, 1972, 1976, 1980 and 2012.  Detroit ran and lost seven times, almost all of them at a time when the IOC was being headed by an American from Detroit!

The USOC has a better track record with the Winter Games.  They won bids for 1960, 1976 and 2002.  Lake Placid hosted in 1932 because the tradition of the day was to host the Winter Games in the same country as the host of the Summer Games (where possible) and they hosted in 1980 because no one else wanted the Games.  Squaw Valley was a surprise, Denver resigned 1976, and Salt Lake was mired in scandal (although to be truthful, we all know Salt Lake was going to win - they trounced the combined votes given to the Canadians, Swedes and Swiss by 20 votes on the first ballot) but the US lost Winter bids for 1948, 1952, 1956, 1968, 1972, 1992, 1994 and 1998.

The point - the USA is a formidable competitor and a competent host but it can be beaten.  And sometimes when it just seems to be their turn to host, they go out and win.

[mr.x]

...I stand in a suburb of Melbourne, Victoria, Australia...

Viva suburb of Melbourne, Victoria, Australia!  Great post.

[baron-pierreIV]

what it all boils down to is this...you can bring up all the ludicrous, ridiculous, and trivial things as to why the US should never host the Olympics again because it is corrupt an "evil nation" etc.......the US if they put forward a top notch city (which I am sure they will after a careful selection process) will stand an EXCELLENT chance of winning...half of the garbage you bring up is either exaggerated and the thing you bring up that are true are likely to be overlooked by the IOC....as for Toronto nothing will defeat the fact that Vancouver has 2010, if Canada wantetd 2016 they knew what they had to do, Toronto is unlikely to win 2016 be it against the USA, Japan, European nations, etc.....

SOlympiadW, I can't blame you for the US putting a top notch bid. But from where I stand here in a suburb of Ancaster, Ontario, Canada. The US is using the Olympics as a propaganda machine just like Nazi Germany did!

They're using the Olympics to show the whole world that they too believe in peace, love, and understanding. Who wouldn't! But apparently, for the next generation of Americans this won't be the case. It is scary for the next generation to face the problems in this decade alone.

America is using trillions of dollars for funding the war effort in Iraq and the war on terrorism. Corporate companies are making money off of it from the arms and supplies going to Iraq and Afghanistan. From nuclears weapon, to rifles, to bombs, this imperialism dating back to 1961 continues to grow to this day.

All the money that was spent outrageously by the US government, should have been spent to end the AIDS crisis, cancelling debt, promote trade, and ending poverty in the world's poorest countries. But alas, your country concentrated your resources into the Middle East, preemptively took over Iraq, and unilaterally going against the UN and all that the organization stands for.

And the shocking thing is, that it will take 10 years for Iraq to recover from the burdens of history, from the life that they once have, and the civil unrest. What was once peace, love, understanding has been replaced with hate, greed, and ignorance.

Is this the America that is capable, morally, to host the Olympics? I truly don't think so.

I know for a fact that the IOC is not stupid. After all, New York lost to London for 2012. Which proves once and for all the US can be beaten in this game. Mr. Rogge along with other members including Dick Pound, are trying their best to end this corruption with within the IOC. And take back the Olympics to what once was...Peace, Love, Understanding. Humanity.

And you think London is any better? The UK is in Iraq too. So is Australia-was it capable of hosting a moral olympics? The Greeks are hardly bastions of peace, and what about the Communist dictatorship that is China? Should Beijing host the games? EVERY SINGLE HOST, EVERY host, has used the games as propaganda. Sydney most certainly did. Barcelona oozed with it. Los Angeles was a bit over the top, but Seoul was no better. Montreal, Munich, St. Louis, Moscow, Melbourne, Tokyo, Rome, Atlanta, Athens, Mexico City, London, Amsterdam...they all stunk of it. The olympics put a city and a country on show. If they didn't, there'd be no point spending billions on hosting them.

From where I stand in a suburb of Melbourne, Victoria, Australia; America isn't perfect. Bush is a bit of a p-r-*-c-k. Some of their policies are infuriating.

But, despite it's many, many problems, the USA is still the most powerful democracy in the world, and without it, the world would be a significantly less free place.

Yes, I'm irritated that there is a new starbucks down the street from me and the local cafe just closed.

I'm annoyed that Vegemite is owned by a US tobacco company.

I didn't approve of the invasion of Iraq.

The extreme level of symbol-bases jingoism in the US is, at times, sickening.

Their gun laws are awful, their health services no better, and their corporations far too powerul.

But beyond all this, beyond the brashness, the ignorance, the agressiveness, Americans are good people. America is a good country.

And an American games would certainly be more 'moral' then one in China.

BTW, this was REALLY offensive:

"What was once peace, love, understanding has been replaced with hate, greed, and ignorance."

Saddam was shrewd, so maybe the understanding comment is truthful. But peaceful? Loving?

Open your eyes, mate. The leftist rhetoric spouted at you is no better then anything from the right. The US serves it's own national interests, as does every country in the world-including Canada. America is also one of the most giving nations on earth, both at a public and private level. Sure, they want something in return, but so does every country. Do you think the Canuck gov't sends wheat to Africa purely out of the goodness of their hearts? If you do, you might need to study government and politics a bit more.

An American city would be an EXCELLENT host of the games. Toronto would be, too.

I'd like Toronto to get it, but if it's an American city, I will be celebrating that at least the propaganda that will certainly be a part of it, and that will strengthen the jingoism and attitude of superiority as well as favourability to the government, will not be in a country less sympathetic to the ideals of freedom and democracy, like Russia, or China, or Singapore.

(Sorry if that was a bit rambling, but tis guy is really starting to irk me)

Thank you, Melbourne.  Any time you're in the Bay Area, I will take you to the finest restaurant in town for dinner.

EtW, ho-hum. :sleepy:  Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.