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TORONTO 2016


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Here's how you people need to think of this.

Yes, Toronto can wait till after the WF decision is made, but I letter of intent must be sent to the IOC a few months before the BIE makes its decision. If Toronto wins, or loses and is still not interested in an Olympic bid, the bids is easily withdrawn, no harm no foul.

If Toronto is interested in the Olympics, 2016 will be no harder than any other time the city has bid. And realistically, whether or not Toronto bids for 2016, it won't bid again for some time after that (the 2028 range) because the Games are almost certainly coming back to North America. So there is no harm in bidding for 2016.

Further, since it is geopolitically NA's turn to host, it is essentially a match between the USA and Canada. And yes, there is a good chance that things will be stacked in the USA's favour. On the other hand, any weakness in the American bid could deliver the Olympics to Toronto. And this is why Toronto should bid. We have been seeing continued weakness from the US since NYC lost. If, say, San Diego is selected as the US host city, Toronto's chance of winning becomes much better. But, if NYC or Chicago are selected, I'm willing to admit that the chances are much lower (though it is entirely possible that any American bid can drop the ball).

That Canada is unable to afford two Olympics so close is a fallacy. Canada is the only G8 country that has been running consistent government surplusses since 1997. I find it absurd that people are making this argument while in the same breath saying that the USA is too strong for 2016. Last I checked, the US federal government is borrowing half a trillion dollars a year. The US can ill afford an Olympic Games....

That Toronto isn't a surefire win is not a good argument against Toronto bidding. Toronto is technically and financially ready to host, and that is all that really matters. Let the IOC decide what it is and is not willing to do.

A half trillion dollar deficit in the US is the equivalent of a $100 million dollar debt in Canada :P

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As long as the IOC still has the Atlanta bombings in their own minds, there's no surprise that the IOC might choose another country to host!

Using that logic, the IOC may also has the Montreal financial fiasco in their minds, so there should be no surprise that the IOC might not allow Canada to host another SOG!

And Australia can expect an olympics around 2020 because of the overwhelmingly satisfactory response to Sydney. ;)

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I am just curious about something.  Why is it that some (not all) Canadians think that they should have more Olympics than say many of the European countries?  There is a big difference between the U.S. and Canada both from an economic standpoint for the IOC as well as population. Canada is on par with say Italy or Germany or Britain or Australia in those areas.  Yet those countries haven't had 3 games within 34 years as Canada has, nor have they even come close to having 4 in 40 years which is what some are proposing in this forum for 2016. Granted Italy had back to back games in '56 and '60 but that was 46-50 years ago and they hadn't hosted anything prior to that.

The reason why some people are very hard pressed to get the Summer Olympics games back to Canada is because Toronto's prime waterfront land needed for this bid will be used for other purposes if they don't bid for 2016. After 2016, that land will be used to develop other projects. This was a key part to Toronto's bid and a major reason why it was a very strong bid and labelled as "the best technically". Not to mention, by 2016 it will have been 40 years after the Montreal Summer Olympics. I don't think the previous host cities of the Winter Olympics will affect the Summer Olympic bidding cities as much as if it were a previous Summer host. It will still have a negative effect but not as big as some of you are making it out to be. We are not saying we are going to get them but it doesn't hurt waiting things out and keeping our options open. If it becomes more apparant in time that these games are destined to come back to NA, then Toronto should seriously consider bidding, or even better, if the U.S.A. decides not to bid, then Toronto definately needs to bid.

I won't be disappointed if Toronto decides not to bid. We are bidding for the World's Expo. If we win that, it will be good hosting experience for the city and strengthen a future Olympics bid. Just look at Montreal and Vancouver, both have hosted Expos, then went on to host the Olympics. But if Toronto does decide to put its name into the mix for 2016, you bet that I'm going to fully support this bid.

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"A half trillion dollar deficit in the US is the equivalent of a $100 million dollar debt in Canada :P "

Well, more like $60 billion. Come on though, Canada is about to join the very exclusive club of net lender countries (Switzerland, Japan, etc.) while the US is sweating about a currency crisis.

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As long as the IOC still has the Atlanta bombings in their own minds, there's no surprise that the IOC might choose another country to host!

And I'd like to add... which is why Germany should not get any other international event because of all the Jews killed by the Germans in 1940-45 and the events at Munich in 1972.  

Oh, but wait, isn't there something happening on German soil in June and July?  Did FIFA f*ck up?  Did somebody forget to tell them?   :rolleyes:

And how soon we forget that Salt Lake 2002 was a rousing success, and commercially, the most successful Winter Games, Torino included --  a mere 6 years after Atlanta.

Also, ETW, apparently, you can't make the distinction between something happening in an OPEN public park (Centennial Park) which was WAS NOT an Official venue, as opposed to say, Olympic Village in Munich in 1972 and Communale last month with the goldenpalace prick, interfering with the Italian president at the Torino Closing -- and cud've killed him in front of the whole world if he wanted to?  

Also, what about the students (a handful of them) killed in Mexico City a few days before the 1968 Summer Olympics?  And the 57 dead in London 24 hours after July 7?  So DON'T you (or anyone) ever bring up the Atlanta bombing again because you are going to get this litany of other Olympic-related deaths right back.   :angry:

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And Australia can expect an olympics around 2020 because of the overwhelmingly satisfactory response to Sydney. ;)

No Chance.

With Sydney having just hosted 2000, Australia no longer has an A-grade world famous, iconic city to offer the IOC.

Sorry, but Melbourne nad Brisbane are no way near to such world status and would most certainly not be able to compete with bids from cities such as Berlin, Rome, Paris, New York, Tokyo, Rio De Janiero (first South American host) or Cape Town (first African host).

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R u sure you're not zeneca?  U sure r sounding like him.  

BTW, where is that everything-must-be-solvent, law-&-order guy?  He just vanished.

Who in the blue hell is zeneca? I haven't been here for 5 years so I don't even know this zeneca you're talking about! Besides. I have never changed my nickname since the very beginnings of this forum. Even though I haven't spoken in a while, I'm like the old-timer of this forum. So please, show some respect. OK?

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R u sure you're not zeneca?  U sure r sounding like him.  

BTW, where is that everything-must-be-solvent, law-&-order guy?  He just vanished.

Who in the blue hell is zeneca? I haven't been here for 5 years so I don't even know this zeneca you're talking about! Besides. I have never changed my nickname since the very beginnings of this forum. Even though I haven't spoken in a while, I'm like the old-timer of this forum. So please, show some respect. OK?

Except you make some really far-out statements and a lot of arguments which don't hold water.   BTW, seniority doesn't always count for anything here.  It's not like you need a pedigree or what to post here...or anywhere.  

P.S. Zeneca is this crazy German poster.  Go catch up on some of the  time you've missed.

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Also, what about the students (a handful of them) killed in Mexico City a few days before the 1968 Summer Olympics?  And the 57 dead in London 24 hours after July 7?
Baron, those events that occured were not during the 16 days of competition. In fact those events have nothing do to with the olympics at all! Those events were targeting the country's government policy, and were the responsibility of the government itself!
Also, ETW, apparently, you can't make the distinction between something happening in an OPEN public park (Centennial Park) which was WAS NOT an Official venue, as opposed to say, Olympic Village in Munich in 1972 and Communale last month with the goldenpalace prick, interfering with the Italian president at the Torino Closing -- and cud've killed in front of the whole world if he wanted to?  

Baron, Centennial Park was part of Atlanta's Olympic plan to revitalize the city in preparation for the athletes and coaches who would be competing in Atlanta for the next 16 days. An incident in front of athletes and spectators would be the IOC and the host committee's responsibility.

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Zeneca is this crazy German poster.  Go catch up on some of the  time you've missed.

Thanks I appreciate your concern. Hopefully I won't have to meet with him anytime soon.

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Except you make some really far-out statements and a lot of arguments which don't hold water.   BTW, seniority doesn't always count for anything here.  It's not like you need a pedigree or what to post here...or anywhere.  

I admit. I might be crazy sometimes on my opinion. It might not be constructive but that's just the nature of I am. At least my arguments are out there.

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Also, what about the students (a handful of them) killed in Mexico City a few days before the 1968 Summer Olympics?  And the 57 dead in London 24 hours after July 7?

Baron, those events that occured were not during the 16 days of competition. In fact those events have nothing do to with the olympics at all! Those events were targeting the country's government policy, and were the responsibility of the government itself!

True- the July 7th bombings in London has nothing to do with the olympic games. More likely they were timed to coincide with the G8 summit.

Also lets say if theoretically the July 7th bombings were linked to the 2012 olympics, then more likely the bomb plot would have been for Paris, as it was the hot favourite to win the 2012 race.

London was a suprise victory, so the terrorists would have had to plan everything in like 18 hours, build the bombs, choose the people etc. Very very unlikely, the July 7th bombings probably took months/ maybe even years to plan.

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Also, what about the students (a handful of them) killed in Mexico City a few days before the 1968 Summer Olympics?  And the 57 dead in London 24 hours after July 7?

Baron, those events that occured were not during the 16 days of competition. In fact those events have nothing do to with the olympics at all! Those events were targeting the country's government policy, and were the responsibility of the government itself!

Uh-huh.  And who was spending for those Summer Games?   :rolleyes:

Also, ETW, apparently, you can't make the distinction between something happening in an OPEN public park (Centennial Park) which was WAS NOT an Official venue, as opposed to say, Olympic Village in Munich in 1972 and Communale last month with the goldenpalace prick, interfering with the Italian president at the Torino Closing -- and cud've killed in front of the whole world if he wanted to?  

Baron, Centennial Park was part of Atlanta's Olympic plan to revitalize the city in preparation for the athletes and coaches who would be competing in Atlanta for the next 16 days. An incident in front of athletes and spectators would be the IOC and the host committee's responsibility.

Precisely.  Centennial Park is an OPEN public park.  ACOG and Atlanta did not see the NEED to turn it into an armed camp -- which if they did, then naysayers would say:  we don't need an armed camp.  THis is a people's park, etc.  And going by your argument above re the deaths in Mexico, well, the perp in Atlanta, acting alone, a crazed Mr. Randolph, was making a statement about abortions -- so IT doesn't TIE in directly with the running of the Olympics as you said.

OK, I repeat...

1972 - deaths in Munich.  Olympic Village breached; participating Israeli athletes murdered in their own rooms.  Not to mention a few more killed at the airport.

2005 - 57 people killed all over London while the city was still celebrating its win of the 2012 Games.  So, LOCOG should've secured the whole city and placed the entire population of the London metropolitan area under lockdown.  Don't ya think so?

2006 - Torino closing.  Under the heavily guarded COmmunale stadium, with tons and layers of security:  unknown and unauthorized person approaches the podium while the Italian President is giving his farewell remarks.  Actually gets to within inches of the President; attempts to blurt something into the mikes and/or snatches microphones.  Possibly, he could've had a more sinister purpose, and certainly could've spilled Mr. President's guts in front of the whole world if he wanted to.  :shocked:

Now why weren't these other locations penalized?  Because your arguments are specious.

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Also, what about the students (a handful of them) killed in Mexico City a few days before the 1968 Summer Olympics?  And the 57 dead in London 24 hours after July 7?

Baron, those events that occured were not during the 16 days of competition. In fact those events have nothing do to with the olympics at all! Those events were targeting the country's government policy, and were the responsibility of the government itself!

True- the July 7th bombings in London has nothing to do with the olympic games. More likely they were timed to coincide with the G8 summit.

Also lets say if theoretically the July 7th bombings were linked to the 2012 olympics, then more likely the bomb plot would have been for Paris, as it was the hot favourite to win the 2012 race.

London was a suprise victory, so the terrorists would have had to plan everything in like 18 hours, build the bombs, choose the people etc. Very very unlikely, the July 7th bombings probably took months/ maybe even years to plan.

No.  It's precisely because of Olympic-related causes that brings these troublemakers out. Oh, look!  A sea of happy, smiling, unguarded revelers!  Goody, goody!  There's enough roadkill here for me to make my point!

Same thing -- G8, Olympic celebration -- same thing.  Don't hold the Olympics or some such celebrations or the G8, G9, G10 - whatever in the same time and place, then you won't get thousands of bodies together available for cannon fodder.

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2005 - 57 people killed all over London while the city was still celebrating its win of the 2012 Games.  So, LOCOG should've secured the whole city and placed the entire population of the London metropolitan area under lockdown.  Don't ya think so?

I still think Paris maybe should have done that, as it was the favourite

But YES- a security lockdown may be a necessary measure for 2 weeks during the 2012 games.

Security will need to be very high, the most ever in olympic history infact, as London is more of a terror target than Vancouver or Beijing.

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No.  It's precisely because of Olympic-related causes that brings these troublemakers out. Oh, look!  A sea of happy, smiling, unguarded revelers!  Goody, goody!  There's enough roadkill here for me to make my point!

Same thing -- G8, Olympic celebration -- same thing.  Don't hold the Olympics or some such celebrations or the G8, G9, G10 - whatever in the same time and place, then you won't get thousands of bodies together available for cannon fodder.

But then wouldn't it have made more sense to send suicide bombers into the crowd that had assembled at Trafalgar square to listen to the annoucement, and attack on the actual day of the annoucement - many more would have died.

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True- the July 7th bombings in London has nothing to do with the olympic games. More likely they were timed to coincide with the G8 summit.

Also lets say if theoretically the July 7th bombings were linked to the 2012 olympics, then more likely the bomb plot would have been for Paris, as it was the hot favourite to win the 2012 race.

London was a suprise victory, so the terrorists would have had to plan everything in like 18 hours, build the bombs, choose the people etc. Very very unlikely, the July 7th bombings probably took months/ maybe even years to plan.

You're right. This goes to show that the Olympic win had nothing to do with the bombings.
Same thing -- G8, Olympic celebration -- same thing.  Don't hold the Olympics or some such celebrations or the G8, G9, G10 - whatever in the same time and place, then you won't get thousands of bodies together available for cannon fodder.

Please don't confuse the G8 Summit with London's Olympic win.

The G8 Summit was held at Gleneagles where all 8 members of the 8 industrialized nations were talking about climate change and extreme poverty.

The terrorists were terrorizing London just to bring up the issue of the country's involvement in the War in Iraq. It's just ironic that the Olympic announcement and G8 Summit at Gleneagles were both held in the same week. Blair had his hands full due to the busy time schedule of events!

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Precisely.  Centennial Park is an OPEN public park.  ACOG and Atlanta did not see the NEED to turn it into an armed camp -- which if they did, then naysayers would say:  we don't need an armed camp.  THis is a people's park, etc.  And going by your argument above re the deaths in Mexico, well, the perp in Atlanta, acting alone, a crazed Mr. Randolph, was making a statement about abortions -- so IT doesn't TIE in directly with the running of the Olympics as you said.

No. I'm suggesting that Centennial Park, an OPEN public park, specifically made for the purpose of olympic athletes and spectators, should've strengthened security throughout the premises. Not I'm not talking about turning venues into a war zone. But any event that disrupts the athletes, coaches, and spectators in a dangerous and malicious manner during the 16 days of competition, is considered a terrorist attack on the Olympic movement.

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Precisely.  Centennial Park is an OPEN public park.  ACOG and Atlanta did not see the NEED to turn it into an armed camp -- which if they did, then naysayers would say:  we don't need an armed camp.  THis is a people's park, etc.  And going by your argument above re the deaths in Mexico, well, the perp in Atlanta, acting alone, a crazed Mr. Randolph, was making a statement about abortions -- so IT doesn't TIE in directly with the running of the Olympics as you said.

No. I'm suggesting that Centennial Park, an OPEN public park, specifically made for the purpose of olympic athletes and spectators, should've strengthened security throughout the premises. Not I'm not talking about turning venues into a war zone. But any event that disrupts the athletes, coaches, and spectators in a dangerous and malicious manner during the 16 days of competition, is considered a terrorist attack on the Olympic movement.

Uhmm...shudda-cudda.  You got your facts wrong, kiddo.  I lived in Atlanta 1993-96.  

Centennial Park was NOT "...made for the purpose of olympic athletes and spectators..."  It was simply a city park, revitalizing a warehouse area around downtown, and was a nice legacy idea for Atlanta's being an Olympic host.  It was made FOR the city, FOR everybody - residents and visitors alike.  It just happened to have an Olympic theme.  

And WHAT I'm telling you is that this was an OOOPPPPEEEENNNNNN PPPPUUUUBBBBBBLLLLLIIIICCCC PPPPPAAAARRRRRKKKKKK - not an armed camp.  If Munich, Mexico, London and Torino cannot guard their own areas around and within designated official venues, why should an open public parkin Atlanta be any different?  

Again... :shocked:  Let's look at the death count...

Mexico 1968 - 300+ (est)

Munich 1972 - 14

Atlanta 1996 - 1 (the Turkish photographer suffered a heart attack -- I suppose that's Atlanta's fault, too)

London 2005 - 57

Gee, that's TERRIBLE that only 1 person was killed in Atlanta!  Why not more?

Also, why did they pick London over Paris?  Well, obviously they wanted to hit the Brits first.  ANd they were saving the French cities for later in the summer with the widespread riots.  I think the UK got lucky in that regard.   :suspect:

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OK, I repeat...

1972 - deaths in Munich.  Olympic Village breached; participating Israeli athletes murdered in their own rooms.  Not to mention a few more killed at the airport.

2005 - 57 people killed all over London while the city was still celebrating its win of the 2012 Games.  So, LOCOG should've secured the whole city and placed the entire population of the London metropolitan area under lockdown.  Don't ya think so?

2006 - Torino closing.  Under the heavily guarded COmmunale stadium, with tons and layers of security:  unknown and unauthorized person approaches the podium while the Italian President is giving his farewell remarks.  Actually gets to within inches of the President; attempts to blurt something into the mikes and/or snatches microphones.  Possibly, he could've had a more sinister purpose, and certainly could've spilled Mr. President's guts in front of the whole world if he wanted to.  :shocked:

Now why weren't these other locations penalized?  Because your arguments are specious.

You forgot to include the Canadian in a tutu and the mad Irish priest who breached security at Athens.  THOSE events occurred at actual Olympic venues.  :glare:

This is just smoke and mirrors, looking at one incident that occurred in a public area to try and discredit any future bids from the U.S.

Now of course, if Berlin decides to bid in the near future everyone would be all over it in favor!  But since this is the U.S. we're talking about there are some that will find any excuse to discredit any future bids.  Sad really.  

Never mind, of course, that Los Angeles and Salt Lake City both were highly successful, posted revenues and in the case of L.A., helped save the Olympic movement from extinction.

Unlike Canada's attempts at hosting a games (except for Calgary, of course).  Let's face it - if Vancouver 2010's cost overruns continue to rise at the rate they currently are, any shot for Toronto will be gone with the wind.  Much like Vancouver's first and second bids in 1976 and 1980 were scuttled when Montreal's debt and overruns went into the hemisphere, and why, when Denver pulled out in 1976 and Vancouver was offered to step in, they refused.

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