baron-pierreIV Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 The games started in 1896 but the first developing-country bid wasn't until 1968 Mexico City (I'm not 100% certain but I think Tokyo would have qualified as developed even in 1964). Even in 1896, Greece at that time was probably the equivalent of a 3rd world country today. And then Italy/Rome too, provisionally awarded the 1908 Games in 1903, was probably a borderline developing country at the time. Otherwise, why would it have rescinded the honor when Mt. Vesuvius erupted (again) in 1906? Italy reasoned that it needed to reallocate its then-limited resources to rebuild the devastated area around Naples (rather than spending them on a relatively new sports extravaganza). Thus, this whole question of Mexico being the first developing country to stage a Modern Era Summer Games is not factual. The Greece of 1896 (and 1906 for the Intercalated Games) and Italy of 1906-08 were probably more primitive than Mexico was in 1968. I doubt that those 2 Mediterranean countries even had electricity outside of Athens (and Rome) at the time. Also, re cities that initially had the Olympic honor. As some of us well know that Chicago was the original designee for 1904 were it not for some internal US political shennanigans. Rome was the initial designee for 1908; Tokyo was the original candidate for both 1940 and 1944. Well, Rome finally had its chance in 1960; Tokyo (on its 3rd round) had its date with destiny in 1964 -- so maybe Chicago will finally have its day in the sun in 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyelBrazil Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 Rio is a centerpiece for both your 2014 and 2016 events, therefore there is legitimate apprehension that one event will undercut the other. I agree, but I, as a "carioca" (who borns in Rio), still dreaming in organizing both events... A one more info for you: Rio is already chosen to host the World Cup Final Match if Brazil gets 2014... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 one more info for you: Rio is already chosen to host the World Cup Final Match if Brazil gets 2014... That makes it even worse. If Sao Paolo were designated to host the WC Finals, then it would've taken the onus off of Rio, and I think cleared the decks for a stronger Rio 2016 candidacy (but only slightly). But a 2014 WC Final looks good in Rio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 won't the fund realized from Fifa 2014 be used for the Olympic RIO 2016 on the other if they to host both--- that seems like an advantage rather than waiting for long time to start planning and seeking for fund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 won't the fund realized from Fifa 2014 be used for the Olympic RIO 2016 on the other if they to host both--- that seems like an advantage rather than waiting for long time to start planning and seeking for fund. It would seem so; but that's not the point. The point is: can the chosen city concentrate its efforts on preparing for and putting on a nearly flawless Games. That's the point. A World Cup requires preparations in 9 or 10 cities for one sport that can be stretched out over a month. An Olympics requires preparation for 28 sports in one city (or region) that happens over 17 days. If I were the IOC, why should I persist in trying to get my show staged in a city/country already occupied with one Championship when I can go to 2 or 3 other cities that can give me the full attention in the 7 years' lead time I give them, in order to execute my show flawlessly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 It would seem so; but that's not the point. The point is: can the chosen city concentrate its efforts on preparing for and putting on a nearly flawless Games. That's the point. A World Cup requires preparations in 9 or 10 cities for one sport that can be stretched out over a month. An Olympics requires preparation for 28 sports in one city (or region) that happens over 17 days. If I were the IOC, why should I persist in trying to get my show staged in a city/country already occupied with one Championship when I can go to 2 or 3 other cities that can give me the full attention in the 7 years' lead time I give them, in order to execute my show flawlessly? Yes! you are a pro. I can get your point very clearly now - for the games to be well organised other less preoccupied cities can host. Remember one thing there have always be flaws in every hosting city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted October 13, 2007 Report Share Posted October 13, 2007 Yes! you are a pro. I can get your point very clearly now - for the games to be well organised other less preoccupied cities can host. Remember one thing there have always be flaws in every hosting city. Correct. That is the dilemna/liability of Rio's candidacy. If Rio were the only candidate (as LA was for 1984), then the issue is moot and there would be no debate. But THERE ARE at least 3 other viable candidates who can give the IOC the undivided attention it will want leading up to those Games. And when I say 'flawlessly,' I mean as close to being glitch-free as possible -- which you would not get when a host city/country has committed the first part of its budget to another event. Succeeding outlays for additional funds would probably be met by a host of opposition from parties who would say "Enough is enough; and things like health, education, social services, etc., etc., SHOULD also be getting their fair share of funding." -- and projects may be left uncompleted. You minimize this scenario when you go to another gov't/organization that will have just the Olympics as its only priority within a very compressed span of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athan Posted October 14, 2007 Report Share Posted October 14, 2007 Correct. That is the dilemna/liability of Rio's candidacy. If Rio were the only candidate (as LA was for 1984), then the issue is moot and there would be no debate. But THERE ARE at least 3 other viable candidates who can give the IOC the undivided attention it will want leading up to those Games. I agree: Rio can host a great Olympic Games. But with the FIFA World Cup in 2014 with the finals in Rio, it can be the end of Rio's bid. The country (and the city) will have seven years to prepare them for the World Cup (2007 to 2014) leaving just one year and some months (2014 to mid-2016, although they're on the Southern hemisphere and can wait until Sept-Oct it's a short time) to the Olympics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfm Jeremie Posted October 14, 2007 Report Share Posted October 14, 2007 I agree: Rio can host a great Olympic Games. But with the FIFA World Cup in 2014 with the finals in Rio, it can be the end of Rio's bid. The country (and the city) will have seven years to prepare them for the World Cup (2007 to 2014) leaving just one year and some months (2014 to mid-2016, although they're on the Southern hemisphere and can wait until Sept-Oct it's a short time) to the Olympics. This is all well but that's assuming that the preparation for the World Cup do not have any commonality with the preparation for the Olympics. I would think that the work on transportation, security, communication and accomodation infrastructures done for the WC 2014 would benefit the preparation for the Games. Besides what's the point some of you are making about Rio hosting the finals? Rio will in any case host some WC games. I don't see what difference it makes that these games are the final or not Not saying Rio hosting two years after WC 2014 is a sure thing, just pointing that there could be some synergies between the 2 events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorbr Posted October 14, 2007 Report Share Posted October 14, 2007 This is all well but that's assuming that the preparation for the World Cup do not have any commonality with the preparation for the Olympics. I would think that the work on transportation, security, communication and accomodation infrastructures done for the WC 2014 would benefit the preparation for the Games.Besides what's the point some of you are making about Rio hosting the finals? Rio will in any case host some WC games. I don't see what difference it makes that these games are the final or not Not saying Rio hosting two years after WC 2014 is a sure thing, just pointing that there could be some synergies between the 2 events. Exactly Jeremie.... and that's the authorities plan... what Fifa asked Brazil to do in the city about infra-structure, transportation, accomodation, security, communication, all this, is pretty much the same that we need to do for the olympics..... so, a city that has already changed for the PAN/PARAPAN games, and much more for the WC, is for sure a city that is becomming even more prepared to host the olympics. There are already discussions about getting the two plans together, and besides that, the idea is that the WC preparations, are going to be like 70, 80% made by the private sector (companies have already shown interest in doing so), and it would be mainly about Maracanã Stadium and its surrounds, wich would even benefit more the Olympics bid. The public sector would have to do the improvements in the city that would be THE SAME needed to the olympics.... at least, it will help a lot! If we are chosen to be the host city, we'd only have to improve more and adjust the venues and what else the IOC asks... Besides that.... as Jeremie said, hosting the final is not a problem.... it's not worse then hosting a regular game.... if the problem is being a WC's host, so it's much better to host the finals... it shows that the city will be ready for a huge event like this... (actually the WC gathers much more attention in the world then the Olympics...). Let's see what the IOC members think... this is the best opinion that we can have.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted October 14, 2007 Report Share Posted October 14, 2007 This is all well but that's assuming that the preparation for the World Cup do not have any commonality with the preparation for the Olympics. I would think that the work on transportation, security, communication and accomodation infrastructures done for the WC 2014 would benefit the preparation for the Games.Besides what's the point some of you are making about Rio hosting the finals? Rio will in any case host some WC games. I don't see what difference it makes that these games are the final or not Not saying Rio hosting two years after WC 2014 is a sure thing, just pointing that there could be some synergies between the 2 events. It could be done as 'worst case' scenario. It's going to be tricky. Here are 2 possible stumbling blocks along the way: *And what if Brazil loses the 2014 World Cup? It is possible. Will the enthusiasm be there for the Brazilians on ROCOG to complete the homestretch job for the Olympics? *What if there is a radical change in governments between the commitments of the Lulla admin for 2007 (for the World Cup), and what about those promised for a new admin for 2016? Will those be honored or would it give the IOC apoplexies much larger than its problems with Athens? So there are a lot of these great imponderables that puts a RIO 2016 candidacy at risk. And it's NOT like the IOC has no other choice. Tokyo has actually hosted an Olympic Games before; and the Americans can be counted again to offer an energetic do-as-we-can brilliant Olympic Games also beside a water setting in a city that was due to have staged the 3rd Olympics and has since proven its mettle in hosting the most gargantuan of conventions and the like under a strong-armed mayor. And strangely enough, it was the city that staged the Opening Match for the 1994 World Cup while rival Rio is due to stage the Final Match 20 years later. It remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfm Jeremie Posted October 14, 2007 Report Share Posted October 14, 2007 *And what if Brazil loses the 2014 World Cup? It is possible. Will the enthusiasm be there for the Brazilians on ROCOG to complete the homestretch job for the Olympics? Brilliant Baron! You should sell this line to Chicago 2016. And it's NOT like the IOC has no other choice. Tokyo has actually hosted an Olympic Games before; and the Americans can be counted again to offer an energetic do-as-we-can brilliant Olympic Games also beside a water setting in a city that was due to have staged the 3rd Olympics and has since proven its mettle in hosting the most gargantuan of conventions and the like under a strong-armed mayor. Again, I am not claiming that Rio is a shoe in. I do think that Tokyo and Chicago have formidable bids. And yea, Rio also has challenges (I am actually among the few here that openly wonder whether Rio will make the first cut). I am just pointing out that "Rio cannot host in 2016 because of 2014" is a little short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorbr Posted October 14, 2007 Report Share Posted October 14, 2007 It could be done as 'worst case' scenario. It's going to be tricky. Here are 2 possible stumbling blocks along the way:*And what if Brazil loses the 2014 World Cup? It is possible. Will the enthusiasm be there for the Brazilians on ROCOG to complete the homestretch job for the Olympics? *What if there is a radical change in governments between the commitments of the Lulla admin for 2007 (for the World Cup), and what about those promised for a new admin for 2016? Will those be honored or would it give the IOC apoplexies much larger than its problems with Athens? So there are a lot of these great imponderables that puts a RIO 2016 candidacy at risk. And it's NOT like the IOC has no other choice. Tokyo has actually hosted an Olympic Games before; and the Americans can be counted again to offer an energetic do-as-we-can brilliant Olympic Games also beside a water setting in a city that was due to have staged the 3rd Olympics and has since proven its mettle in hosting the most gargantuan of conventions and the like under a strong-armed mayor. And strangely enough, it was the city that staged the Opening Match for the 1994 World Cup while rival Rio is due to stage the Final Match 20 years later. It remains to be seen. Wow.... what losing the WC has to do with ROCOG being energic about hosting the olympics? The olympics would be in BOC's and the government responsability... while the WC is in the Brazilian Football Federation And well, if you don't know... and again you are trying to say the same things u've already said here before, that all the countries in latin america have instable democracies and there are chances of a strong change in our politics..... Brazil has a strong democracy now. We have two major parties, and everybody knows about their politians, that are the ones that can, for sure, be president for the next elections in 2010, and for 2014 (actually, Lula, with ONE l, can come back in 2014). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james Posted October 14, 2007 Report Share Posted October 14, 2007 Wow.... what losing the WC has to do with ROCOG being energic about hosting the olympics? The olympics would be in BOC's and the government responsability... while the WC is in the Brazilian Football Federation And well, if you don't know... and again you are trying to say the same things u've already said here before, that all the countries in latin america have instable democracies and there are chances of a strong change in our politics..... Brazil has a strong democracy now. We have two major parties, and everybody knows about their politians, that are the ones that can, for sure, be president for the next elections in 2010, and for 2014 (actually, Lula, with ONE l, can come back in 2014). Your explanation makes better sense to me now. I personly give my support to RIO 2016 bid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorbr Posted October 14, 2007 Report Share Posted October 14, 2007 Your explanation makes better sense to me now. I personly give my support to RIO 2016 bid. Thank you James! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted October 14, 2007 Report Share Posted October 14, 2007 Thank you James! Oh yeah, and James will be a mighty factor in Rio's pursuit of victory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorbr Posted October 14, 2007 Report Share Posted October 14, 2007 Oh yeah, and James will be a mighty factor in Rio's pursuit of victory! And will u? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 And will u? Duh! Why should I? Shouldn't it be obvious -- Rio is not my candidate city? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorbr Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 Duh! Why should I? Shouldn't it be obvious -- Rio is not my candidate city? Will you be a factor in Chicago bid? I don't think so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 Will you be a factor in Chicago bid? I don't think so... I NEVER said I would be. Duh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 If Brazil RIO 2016 is succesful we'll then be having world class sporting events happening in developing countries from now on not only that we'll be having the good facilities to take care of the locals, putting us on pair with the developed world. You see why the rotation will be more beneficial to us in the developing world. I pray for RIO 2016 to win with all of my heart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorbr Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 I NEVER said I would be. Duh! So, why were you trying to be "funny" saying that I couldn't thank James for his support because he woudn't be a factor in winning votes for Rio.......... if anyone here is, I see no point in your comment. As I've asked you before, I don't wanna talk to you, so stop that please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 So, why were you trying to be "funny" saying that I couldn't thank James for his support because he woudn't be a factor in winning votes for Rio.......... if anyone here is, I see no point in your comment. As I've asked you before, I don't wanna talk to you, so stop that please. Uhmm, it's the internet -- it's an open forum, thus I am free to comment when I feel like it. If you don't like others to make comments on your posts, then you shouldn't post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorbr Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 Uhmm, it's the internet -- it's an open forum, thus I am free to comment when I feel like it. If you don't like others to make comments on your posts, then you shouldn't post. I haven't said that u can't post... I'm just asking you to stop acting like u do, PLEASE. That's awful.... but ok, I'm the wrong one here... I shoudn't lose my time with things like you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted October 16, 2007 Report Share Posted October 16, 2007 I haven't said that u can't post... I'm just asking you to stop acting like u do, PLEASE. That's awful.... but ok, I'm the wrong one here... I shoudn't lose my time with things like you... I'm not going to try & control how u act -- just as you shouldn't try to monitor or police how I post, OK? The exchange of ideas works quite well w/ the majority of posters here -- except for new and amateur ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.