It Is Moscow Verses Singapore

[!VamosSochi!]

I tried to review any criticisms in the EC report on the two cities. Here they are:

MOSCOW

- questioned the high proposed average operating speed (60 km/h) on the Olympic transport network

- believed the culture and education programs may be over-scoped

- concern about the possible effect, if any, of the organisation of the 2014 Olympic Winter Games in Sochi on the Youth Olympic Games marketing effort

SINGOPORE

- main area of risk concerned the construction of the proposed Youth Olympic Village project and new Equestrian venue within the timeframe available

- believes that some (JMPA) details would have to be reviewed

- has little recent experience of hosting large multi-sport events

It looks to me like the quantity of criticisms are the same, the seriousness of Singapore risks is much higher

[baron-pierreIV]

Actually, 2014 would be the more opportune time for Singapore because:

1. Their new facilities would be ready and that would be an opportune time to show them to the teeny-bopper world.

2. This being a new venture, there well be a lot of mistakes and uncertainties the first time. Would Singapore like to be the testing ground for that? Let Russia make the mistakes; and perfect them the 2nd time around.

3. And as Sochi said, if 2014 were to go to Moscow, they indeed would have TWO Olympic Games in the SAME calendar year.

Based on these, I would make a deal with the IOC now to cede 2010 to Moscow but LOCK UP 2014.

[cfm Jeremie]

I have lived in Singapore for all my life not once have I heard of a prostitute offering sex on Orchard Road.

I beg to differ... (but I don't think it has anything to do with the YOG bid!)

[joseluis88]

Either way, in my view, this is how the 110 IOC members would vote..

Singapore: Mostly the Asian and African countries, maybe some of the South Americans

Moscow: Votes mostly come from Europe, as well as maybe North America and Australia

How the NOCs from the America and MidEast areas vote would be curcial in deciding the winner of the bid

[cfm Jeremie]

Either way, in my view, this is how the 110 IOC members would vote..

Singapore: Mostly the Asian and African countries, maybe some of the South Americans

Moscow: Votes mostly come from Europe, as well as maybe North America and Australia

How the NOCs from the America and MidEast areas vote would be curcial in deciding the winner of the bid

I actually think it will be more a question of whether IOC Members from countries that will never be able to host the Olympics will want to give a chance to a smaller city to host the YOG: I am therefore far from convinced that most of European votes will go to Moscow.

[james]

For me I would be the last person, if representing any country, to vote for Moscow. I think I can only speak based on my feeling about both countries. I understand so well technical evaluations play the best part.

Politically, Russia lacks fair co-operation with many democratic nations ( mostly on the issue of nuclear proliferation) and economically, the gas monopoly plan by Gazprom is already a negative idea to the European countries. These two factors might play some part in the voting.

Basically, security is not an issue from both countries but the skin-head is an issue on the Russian society. I know the authority can handle that one. Nevertheless, Moscow has an issue more than Singapore leaving out experience and sports infrastruture.

[NYCD 2012]

- has little recent experience of hosting large multi-sport events

And has Moscow has the experience ? The Moscow Olympics was almost three decades ago. The WYG was a decade ago. Then Athens could have said they experience from hosting the 1896 games !

I actually think it will be more a question of whether IOC Members from countries that will never be able to host the Olympics will want to give a chance to a smaller city to host the YOG: I am therefore far from convinced that most of European votes will go to Moscow.

You assue votes from their slavic neighbours Ukraine and Belarus just like in Eurovision.

[cfm Jeremie]

And has Moscow has the experience ? The Moscow Olympics was almost three decades ago. The WYG was a decade ago. Then Athens could have said they experience from hosting the 1896 games !

I am all in favour of Singapore hosting the 2010 YOG but I have to say that you are getting ridiculous.

Moscow has loads of experience in hosting World Champs and multi-sports events. Moscow has hosted:

- the WYG in 1998 (and 1998 is recent!) and International Sports Games in 2002

- Wrestling World Champs in 1995 and 2002,

- Equestrian World Cup events from 1995 to 2004

- Cycling-Track European Champs in 1996,

- Modern Pentathlon European Champs in 1997,

- Wrestling European Champs in 2000,

- Swimming World Champs in short pool in 2002,

- Fencing European Champs in 2002,

- Modern Pentathlon World Champs in 2005

and that's only in Moscow and not counting the dozens of Junior European and World Champs Moscow has hosted in the last ten years.

Thanks to these events, Moscow has continuously upgraded the 1980 Olympics venues.

So really, I wouldn't challenge Moscow in the field of experience.

[NYCD 2012]

I am all in favour of Singapore hosting the 2010 YOG but I have to say that you are getting ridiculous.

Moscow has loads of experience in hosting World Champs and multi-sports events. Moscow has hosted:

- the WYG in 1998 (and 1998 is recent!) and International Sports Games in 2002

- Wrestling World Champs in 1995 and 2002,

- Equestrian World Cup events from 1995 to 2004

- Cycling-Track European Champs in 1996,

- Modern Pentathlon European Champs in 1997,

- Wrestling European Champs in 2000,

- Swimming World Champs in short pool in 2002,

- Fencing European Champs in 2002,

- Modern Pentathlon World Champs in 2005

and that's only in Moscow and not counting the dozens of Junior European and World Champs Moscow has hosted in the last ten years.

Thanks to these events, Moscow has continuously upgraded the 1980 Olympics venues.

So really, I wouldn't challenge Moscow in the field of experience.

Still how much of these events are from the last 5 years ?

[cfm Jeremie]

Does it matter? Do you think that the experience earned staging the events I listed have been lost?

Anyhow, since you asked, just in Moscow in the last 2 years:

- Shooting European Championships February 2006,

- IAAF Indoor World Champs in March 2006,

- Wrestling European World Champs in April 2006,

- Volleyball World League Final, August 2006,

- Football FIFA World Champs Women under 20, August 2006,

- Rhythmic Gymnastics European Champs, September 2006,

- FINA World Trophy Synchronised Swimming, October 2006,

- Judo European Champs under 23, November 2006,

- IIHF World Champs, April 2007,

- Volleyball, European Championship, September 2007.

Moscow is scheduled to host the UEFA Champions League Final later this year, a stop of the Diving Grand Prix in April, the IAAF World Champs in 2013.

St-Petersburg hosted the Fencing World Champs last year and will host the Trampoline World Champs in 2009.

Seriously, if the YOG was awarded purely on experience of staging sports events, no vote would be needed...

[rav3n]

I agree with most of the opinion arround here. Moscow is probably one of the most experienced cities on the world on hosting sport events. If we just talk about the experience, even a 2 month child would say that the russians will win this bid. But anyway, Singapore have a good experience on hosting large events and conferences. The fact that they have not hosted so many events doesn't mean they are bad organizers, if we give a chance to this asian country, they would come with an awesome games. And it's not just about sport, is also about education and culture (on this last one, Singapore have a lot of ethnic diversity, in my humble opinion) which i think they have been doing a good job.

Also, i'm pretty tired that the IOC is always giving too much advantage to european cities on their bids, and America & Asia are being recently being underrated (well, i don't think the old continet will make it at 2016).

I just hope they don't end like Pyeongchang (which was my favorite bid for 2014)

[cfm Jeremie]

Also, i'm pretty tired that the IOC is always giving too much advantage to european cities on their bids, and America & Asia are being recently being underrated (well, i don't think the old continet will make it at 2016).

I don't recall any American city being underrated in profit of a European city recently... As for Asia, yeah I can understand PC being disappointed but that's about the only time in recent history that an Asian city was disregarded in favour of a European one. So I really think the "always" should haven't been in your sentence.

This being said, I do hope Singapore will get the YOG in 2010 as I think they are more than capable and that they are a ore suitable host for the YOG if they are not meant to be a new mega event that only a handful of countries can host.

Edited January 26, 2008 by cfm Jeremie

[james]

I don't think YOGs are such mega games in the real sense if want to say let look at things from this angle. Singapore being a small country in terms of size can host YOGs as a small replica of the Olympic proper without hitches.

Using a measure of experience of hosting the very big games on YOGs might likely not fit in. Well, let's look to what both sides offer for the kids not adults.

[joseluis88]

Yeah. Sometimes when the adults get involved things can get troublesome. Sideshows such as botak Russian skinheads/football hoolies who're quite incensed when their team loses and Chechen rebels ruining the show would mean that there're some secondary safety issues that'd put more votes to Singapore

[NYCD 2012]

Sideshows such as botak Russian skinheads/football hoolies who're quite incensed when their team loses

I love that quote . Its Russia's 3rd bid in all forms of olympics in less than 5 Years ! That averages about 1 bid every 20 months !

[depeche]

Sideshows such as botak Russian skinheads/football hoolies who're quite incensed when their team loses

I love that quote

So much for Singapore's fair play

[james]

So much for Singapore's fair play

Is that an excuse?

[hewhomustnotbenamed]

hi all! i stumbled upon this site and while i usually go about my business, this time i feel compelled to share my thoughts.

some of the posts here are bordering on the absurd, if not already crossing over to the absurd.

let's not forget that the posts in this forum are personal opinions, which of course everyone and anyone is entitled, and therefore should not be taken as OFFICIAL stands from the respective bidding cities. and bearing in mind that the opinions are of personal nature, let's not take them PERSONALLY since i believe this is a community that respect each other's voices and not personal attacks.

to the singaporeans, i encourage you guys to give it a rest (you'll understand why in my next point)

food for thought: this final shortlist seems like a classic case of david vs goliath

also, remembering what happened in Singapore 2005 between Paris and London, i would imagine IOC members would once again be unimpressed with arrogance/over-confidence.

so till 21st of feb, enjoy!

[NYCD 2012]

So much for Singapore's fair play

Do you even know what it means , I doubt it.

[james]

food for thought: this final shortlist seems like a classic case of david vs goliath.

Did you say David and Goliath? Who's David and who's Goliath in this bid?

Singapore should be David to win the hosting.PEACE!

[huaiwei]

also, remembering what happened in Singapore 2005 between Paris and London, i would imagine IOC members would once again be unimpressed with arrogance/over-confidence.

If you may provide some neutral sources to back up what you attempt to insinuate, I am far more likely to believe that you belong that a certain category of individuals who seem to have an issue with anything positive pertaining to the little red dot, including a possibility of it winning this games. Your pretense and cowardice are indeed inspiring.

Is Singapore wins the games, good for them. If Moscow wins, I saw it has made the world notice, and I would support resubmitting a bid in 2018 (2014 sounds inauspicious hehe), by which time the new Sports Hub would have been well-established, and hopefully an even stronger sporting culture has blossomed amongst Singapore's youths to be a better representation of what the YOG is all about.

[huaiwei]

I see history is not your strong subject either As a matter of fact Sochi has never been a part of Ottoman Empire (present day Turkey)

Before I respond to the rest of your comments, could you perhaps clarify if the area which Sochi now occupies was in Russian/Soviet Union hands prior to 1829?

[hewhomustnotbenamed]

dear huaiwei, i for one do not condone outright rudeness. i make no pretense nor am i a coward and having you accusing me of such clearly shows what a presumptuous person that you are, not to mention a very defensive one!

since you need to have things so clearly spelt out for you, allow me to enlighten you what happened in Singapore 2005.

Paris went into the final round as the clear favourites and they were brimming with confidence or too much of it as some believed. and we all know what the outcome turned out to be.

i was drawing parallels to that moment now with Moscow and Singapore; of course Moscow is now going into the final vote as favourites, brandishing with them their immense experience. and to infer to the outcome of Singapore 2005 when London won instead, it was my personal assessment that IOC members did not take Paris' over-confidence too kindly, which of course might not be the mitigating factor in swaying the votes.

so what i was trying to impress upon you singaporeans is that Moscow could be undoing its bid with their brand of confidence. hence why i encouraged to give it a rest and instead witness how it unravels. hence also my analogy of david versus goliath; goliath of course being the city that boasts tremendous experience etc. and we all know who was killed in the end.

i suggest before embarking on tirades, do take a moment to be objective and realise that it is not always the rest of the world against the little red dot. and realise that instead of making cause for your city's bid, you just come off as an affected bunch of irritable citizens.

[cfm Jeremie]

since you need to have things so clearly spelt out for you, allow me to enlighten you what happened in Singapore 2005.

Paris went into the final round as the clear favourites and they were brimming with confidence or too much of it as some believed. and we all know what the outcome turned out to be.

Urban legend never backed by a single fact.

Truth is that came the vote in Singapore, Paris was no longer the "clear" favourite and that people inside Paris team were anything but overconfident (scared to death would be more appropriate: felt London was gaining momentum by the hour and that there was not much that could be done; by the end of the campaign, Paris was basically hoping -certainly not confident- that it's technical strength would be enough).

[hewhomustnotbenamed]

i stand corrected then

thank you cfm Jeremie for that clarification which i would imagine a first hand experience/account?

pardon me for trying to salvage the situation but i suppose in trying to draw parallels, it would be Paris' (over)emphasis on its technical strengths as Moscow is now demonstrating. and i don't mean to cause any offense, just my personal observation.

well, come 21st feb i might just be proven wrong. again