Yvr - Tasering Video Aftermath

[SkiFreak]

Most of you have probably seen the video on the news today, that showed the tasering and death of Polish immigrant Mr. Robert Dziekanski. For those of you that haven't, it is available at:

http://www.canada.com/globaltv/bc/index.html

or

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

I was absolutely disgusted with it, with the actions of the RCMP. I think the RCMP officers should be charged with manslaughter and negligence, but I also think YVR and Immigration Canada are also to blame. I found this video on YouTube from CTV news which shows a flawed interpretation system at the airport:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3Ggpme5nUA

I do hope this is fixed before the Olympics.

[Olympian2004]

That is not only a disgrace for a future Olympic host city but also for a tourist destination in general. It's incredible that Dziekanski had to stay at the airport for ten hours -- and nevertheless, he didn't get any sort of help, not even a translator. And those damned tasers make me really sick. I'm glad that they aren't used here in Germany -- and nevertheless, our police still manages to arrest unruly people.

[mr.x]

absolutely horrid that such a thing happened...and it's a shame those officers got off with paid leave????

apparently, they shocked him at around 1:30 am. the RCMP officers called code red 3 minutes later after he went unconscious. Code red would've gotten the airport's medical team to the scene in two minutes, but airport managers canceled the call. instead, he didn't get medical treatment....until 20 minutes later when an ambulance arrived, but of course it was too late.

i hope the airport does re-evaluate how it handles new immigrants, tourists, and beefs up its translation services.

what's worse is this (note that the RCMP is federal, and the VPD is municipally operated - completely separate):

VPD are planning to improve their taser distribution policy for officers

Nov, 14 2007 - 4:10 PM

VANCOUVER/CKNW(AM980) - With the spotlight glaring on police taser use, the Vancouver police are planning to improve their taser distribution policy for officers.

The approximately 120 qualified taser operators in the VPD could soon equipped with personal tasers, much like their firearms, rather than signing them in and out.

Superintendent Steve Schnitzer says the current system leaves room for human error.

"When they're in a pool of tasers, where they're signed out and written in log books, sometimes there is ambiguity... By having a personally-issued taser it takes away any doubt in a subsequent investigation on who actually discharged that taser."

If approved, officers could be armed with personal taser early next year.

[Vancouver_rocks]

I unlike all the other bleeding hearts defend the officers for what they did. The consequences were obviously very tragic and sad but it was necessary. The reporting on the video last night on Global was among the most un-neutral reporting I have ever seen. The constant monologue saying "this is where he got frustrated... this is where nobody helped him... this is where he stopped breathing" was dispicable. They conveniently left out the fact that just before this man got tasered he picked up a stapler and was getting ready to throw that at the officers. He was obviously not going to calm down. I'm sorry but I have been to airports where I don't speak the language and I have been frustrated too, but I did not start throwing computers and tables and destroying property. There was also the mistake on his mother's part telling him to stay in the baggage claim area which is a restricted area. Could he not phone somebody? Why did she not ask airport or airline workers to look for him after the first two hours of the ordeal. There is more to this story than what we are seeing and it's so frustrating to see everybody jumping on the RCMP bashing bandwagon. Any normal individual would not start throwing computers and tables and threatening to throw a table at that lady in the video. There has to have been something else wrong with this man than being "tired and frustrated."

[mr.x]

^

1) His mother did send people to look for him, and nobody tried and instead they said they couldn't find him and told her to go home.

2) According to what i've heard, he was calm, backed away, and held up his arms in the air when the police arrived. But instead, they chose to taser him.

[mr.x]

Video prompts Taser review

Stockwell Day steps in after release of video showing Taser-related death at Vancouver Airport

Doug Ward and Mike De Souza, Vancouver Sun

Published: Wednesday, November 14, 2007

The graphic video of Robert Dziekanski's death at the hands of four policemen sparked outrage among Canadians and those who watched it around the world - including politicians who called for a review of the way police use Tasers.

The gut-wrenching "Rodney King-style" footage of the Polish immigrant writhing on the floor moments before his death prompted Public Security Minister Stockwell Day to tell Parliament today that he has asked for an examination of Tasers.

"This is a tragic and grievous incident. We want to find out answers that can prevent these things from happening in the future," Day said in the House of Commons.

t's unclear what form the review would take since Day told the Commons a month ago that the RCMP and the Canadian Police Association were reviewing the use of Tasers.

Day rejected demands for public hearings into Dziekanski's death, saying that while many Canadians might find the footage of the incident disturbing, several investigations are already underway.

Day said that the RCMP and the Commission for Public Complaints Against the RCMP are conducting separate inquiries. There is also a coroner's inquest, he added.

The video taken by Victoria resident Paul Pritchard was watched on the evening news broadcasts throughout Canada and later on American national news shows and widely on the Internet after its release on Wednesday

On the video, Dziekanski, who had flown to Vancouver to live with his mother in Kamloops, is first seen agitated, picking up a small desk and yelling at airport staff.

He's calmer when the four RCMP officers arrive, however, and is seen standing, facing the officers and unarmed, before he is hit with the first of at least two Taser blasts.

The video then records Dziekanski's screams as he collapses to the floor. At least three Mounties then kneel on the 40-year-old man, whose body soon goes limp.

Today, the federal Liberals said that public hearings are required as part of an investigation into new national guidelines on the use of Tasers.

"A private report to the minister is unacceptable," said Liberal public safety critic Ujjal Dosanjh. "Any review or analysis must be thorough, public, prescriptive and conducted by an independent body."

Surrey-North NDP MLA Penny Priddy said that the "screams of a dying man echo throughout the country" and that Canadians wanted answers before more lives were lost.

"Is it standard operating procedure for the RCMP to use Tasers when there is no obvious physical threat?" she asked Day in Parliament.

The four officers involved are still on active duty following an internal review, according to RCMP Cpl. Greg Gillis, a training instruction in the use of Tasers.

Gillis said the review did not show any concern that the officers acted punitively or outside their regular duties. If it had, he said, the officers would likely have been relegated to desk duty or suspended.

Any further internal investigations will not be conducted until investigations by the Commission for Public Complaints Against the RCMP and other judicial investigations are completed, Gillis said.

B.C. Premier Gordon Campbell told reporters that the video shows that police need to re-examine how they use Tasers.

"I've seen the tape," Campbell said. "I haven't had a chance to see the whole tape. Obviously it's very disturbing to everyone and I think the important thing for us to recognize first of all it's a human tragedy, it's going to affect everyone that's involved in it."

Campbell said there are four separate investigations currently taking place.

B.C. Solicitor-General John Les said that "you can't watch the video without being moved emotionally."

Les said the coroner's inquest should be underway before the summer of 2008. He also said that he is confident that there is enough civilian oversight in the RCMP's homicide investigation to ensure that the probe will be transparent and independent.

B.C. Attorney-General Wally Oppal said that he found the video disturbing but urged people to wait until all the evidence is available.

"Our system is based on fairness and I would want to hear what the police side of the incident is before any of us would rush to judgment," said Oppal.

NDP public safety critic Mike Farnworth called for the appointment of a special prosecutor under the Crown Counsel Act.

Farnworth said that a special prosecutor could provide the independence and transparency that is required in any review of the tragic incident.

The NDP MLA said people around the world will be watching to see how the B.C. government responds to the Dziekanski's death.

"This tragedy has received not just national but international attention. Millions of people around the world have seen what took place and they're looking to see what our response is."

The video left so many questions unanswered, said Farnworth, including why didn't the four policemen who approached Dziekanski physically restrain him rather than using a Taser.

Piotr Ogrodzinski, Poland's ambassador to Canada, said he was very upset by the video and that Warsaw wants to know more about a RCMP probe into the incident.

"The reaction of the RCMP officers was unsuitable to the situation. What I've seen was that Mr. Dziekanski (was) a person who was agitated, frustrated, I think terrified, but not aggressive. He was not making a gesture that he intended to fight anybody," Ogrodzinski told Reuters.

"He didn't know what to to do. In fact, he was in search (of) help. That is why it is a really very sad and deeply moving film to watch."

Dale Carr, an RCMP spokesman in Vancouver, said the officers involved in the Dziekanski case would testify under oath at a coroner's inquest expected some time next year.

But the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association said coroner's inquests do not assess blame. "There needs to be a criminal investigation," said Murray Mollard, the group's executive director.

Simon Fraser University criminologist Neil Boyd said the video does not show what police had been told before they arrived on the scene at the airport.

"The public tends to react to criminal justice events in a kind of tidal wave of emotion, and often very bad, unusual cases end up creating criminal justice policy. That worries me," Boyd said.

© Vancouver Sun and CanWest News Service

[rav3n]

I've been looking very worried, on these last months, about the great amount of xenophoby which is growing more stronger on the world (specially on USA and Spain)...and now the fact that these things are now happening on Canada, which are one of the countries with most aceptance of any social class or race, is really disturbing

[mr.x]

I've been looking very worried, on these last months, about the great amount of xenophoby which is growing more stronger on the world (specially on USA and Spain)...and now the fact that these things are now happening on Canada, which are one of the countries with most aceptance of any social class or race, is really disturbing

it has nothing to do with xenophobia, it was simply a case of extremely poor judgment on how to handle an issue by the RCMP. And this isn't the first time there has been a taser death in Canada.

read the articles, since clearly, you haven't.

[IceNarcissus]

This has much more to do with policing than citizens' xenophobia. Xenophobia in Vancouver? Is that possible?

It seems that policing and security forces have been coming into question in BC a lot recently. The Stone Temple incident for example.

[mr.x]

This has much more to do with policing than citizens' xenophobia. Xenophobia in Vancouver? Is that possible?

It seems that policing and security forces have been coming into question in BC a lot recently. The Stone Temple incident for example.

Precisely.

And xenophobia? This country welcomes immigrants...Richmond, a suburb of Vancouver where Vancouver International Airport is located, is extremely multicultural. 80% of its population is Asian, mostly immigrants.

And Vancouver itself is 50% Asian. Metro wide, 40% are non-whites.

[Olympian2004]

I've been looking very worried, on these last months, about the great amount of xenophoby which is growing more stronger on the world (specially on USA and Spain)...and now the fact that these things are now happening on Canada, which are one of the countries with most aceptance of any social class or race, is really disturbing

Hear, hear. Does your choice of countries have anything to do, by chance, with your president Hugo Chavez, his criticism towards the USA and his encounter with King Juan Carlos last week?

[mr.x]

Stockwell Day dismisses demands for public hearings into man's death at YVR

Doug Ward, With Files From Kelly Sinoski, Vancouver Sun; with files from CanWest News Service

Published: Friday, November 16, 2007

A graphic video of Robert Dziekanski's death after he was Tasered by police sparked outrage Thursday, and politicians called for a review of the way police use Tasers.

The video of the Polish immigrant writhing on the floor moments before his death prompted Public Security Minister Stockwell Day to tell Parliament he has asked for an examination of the use of Tasers.

"This is a tragic and grievous incident. We want to find out answers that can prevent these things from happening in the future," Day said in the House of Commons.

It's unclear what form a review would take, since Day told the Commons last month the RCMP and the Canadian Police Association were already reviewing the use of Tasers.

Canada's justice ministers, meeting in Winnipeg this week, reserved judgment on the safety of Tasers. However, the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary, which patrols parts of Newfoundland and Labrador, on Thursday suspended the use of Tasers.

Day rejected demands for public hearings into Dziekanski's death, saying that while many Canadians might find the video disturbing, several investigations were already underway.

The four RCMP officers involved in the incident were still on active duty Thursday following an internal review, said RCMP Cpl. Greg Gillis, an instructor in the use of Tasers.

Gillis said the review did not cause any concern that the officers acted punitively or outside their regular duties. If it had, he said, the officers would likely have been put on desk duty or suspended.

The video, taken by Victoria resident Paul Pritchard, was watched on evening news broadcasts throughout Canada, later on American news shows, and widely on the Internet.

The federal Liberals said public hearings are needed as part of an investigation into new national guidelines on the use of Tasers.

"A private report to the minister is unacceptable," said Liberal public safety critic Ujjal Dosanjh. "Any review or analysis must be thorough, public, prescriptive and conducted by an independent body."

NDP MP Penny Priddy said the "screams of a dying man echo throughout the country" and that Canadians want answers before more lives were lost.

"Is it standard operating procedure for the RCMP to use Tasers when there is no obvious physical threat?" she asked Day in Parliament.

Gillis said no further internal investigations will be conducted until other investigations, including one by the Commission for Public Complaints Against the RCMP, are completed.

B.C. Premier Gordon Campbell told reporters the video shows police need to re-examine how they use Tasers.

"I've seen the tape," Campbell said. "I haven't had a chance to see the whole tape. Obviously it's very disturbing to everyone and I think the important thing for us to recognize, first of all, it's a human tragedy, it's going to affect everyone that's involved in it."

B.C. Solicitor-General John Les said that "you can't watch the video without being moved emotionally."

Les said a coroner's inquest should be underway next year. He also said he was confident there is enough civilian oversight in the RCMP's investigation of the incident to ensure that it will be transparent and independent.

B.C. Attorney-General Wally Oppal said he found the video disturbing, but urged people to wait until all the evidence is available.

"Our system is based on fairness and I would want to hear what the police side of the incident is before any of us would rush to judgment," said Oppal.

NDP public safety critic Mike Farnworth called for a special prosecutor under the Crown Counsel Act. Farnworth said a special prosecutor could provide the independence and transparency required in any review of the tragic incident.

The NDP MLA said people around the world will be watching to see how the B.C. government responds to Dziekanski's death.

The video left many questions unanswered, said Farnworth, including why the four policemen who approached Dziekanski didn't physically restrain him rather than using a Taser.

Piotr Ogrodzinski, Poland's ambassador to Canada, said he was very upset by the video and that Warsaw wants to know more about a RCMP probe into the incident.

"The reaction of the RCMP officers was unsuitable to the situation. What I've seen was that Mr. Dziekanski [was] a person who was agitated, frustrated, I think terrified, but not aggressive. He was not making a gesture that he intended to fight anybody," Ogrodzinski told Reuters.

"He didn't know what to to do. In fact, he was in search [of] help. That is why it is a really very sad and deeply moving film to watch."

Dale Carr, an RCMP spokesman in Vancouver, said the officers involved in the case would testify under oath at a coroner's inquest.

But the B.C. Civil Liberties Association noted that coroner's inquests do not assess blame. "There needs to be a criminal investigation," said executive director Murray Mollard.

Simon Fraser University criminologist Neil Boyd said the video does not show what police had been told before they arrived on the scene at the airport.

"The public tends to react to criminal-justice events in a kind of tidal wave of emotion, and often very bad, unusual cases end up creating criminal justice policy. That worries me," Boyd said.

DIFFERENT VIEWS OF THE SAME INCIDENT

The release on Wednesday of a video showing Polish immigrant Robert Dziekanski being Tasered by the RCMP has allowed the public to see for itself what took place on Oct. 14 in the moments before Dziekanski's death. It also raised a number of questions. What the video shows appears to conflict at times with the RCMP's version of events, immediately following the incident. And policing experts have raised concerns that the opening moments of the second part of the three-part video, showing the fatal incident, suggest police could have handled the situation better.

0:00

WHAT THE VIDEO SHOWS: The key sequence of events begins when the video shows what appears to be four men wearing RCMP uniforms arriving in the public arrivals area and moving in Dziekanski's direction.

WHAT POLICE SAID: In its original news release on the incident, the RCMP said three police officers were involved in the incident.

19 Seconds

WHAT THE VIDEO SHOWS: Police are told by a bystander that Dziekanski doesn't speak English. As he approaches Dziekanski, one of the officers asks him, "How are you doing, sir?"

WHAT CONCERNS HAVE BEEN RAISED: Paul Kennedy, chair of the Commission for Public Complaints Against the RCMP, has said his review of the incident will look into whether or not the RCMP followed its own policies on dealing with people who can't communicate in English, and whether those policies are adequate.

37 Seconds

WHAT THE VIDEO SHOWS: Several people are seen observing the incident from the airport's public lounge. But Dziekanski and the officers appear to be entirely alone in the secure arrivals area, which is separated from everyone else by safety glass.

WHAT POLICE SAID: The RCMP has said the officers did not use pepper spray on Dziekanski because of the large number of people at the airport.

50 Seconds

WHAT THE VIDEO SHOWS: Dziekanski is shown surrounded by the officers moments before he is Tasered. There is no sign that Dziekanski rushed towards the officers, who are a few metres away, but he does appear to be holding something in his hand.

WHAT POLICE SAID: The RCMP said Dziekanski attempted to grab something off a desk when he was shot using the Taser.

WHAT CONCERNS HAVE BEEN RAISED: Michael Lyman, a policing expert at Columbia College in Missouri, said the four officers on the scene should have been able to physically restrain Dziekanski without resorting to the Taser.

"I don't even think batons or mace would have been necessary, given that there were four officers on the scene," said Lyman. The RCMP's incident-management model classifies the Taser as an "intermediate device". That means it can be used against suspects who are resisting arrest or are combative, but should not be used against those who are simply not cooperating with an officer's request. The RCMP says the Taser may also be appropriate in cases where someone is in a state of "excited delirium" and needs urgent medical attention. A report into the use of Tasers commissioned by B.C.'s Police Complaint Commissioner in 2005 recommended that Tasers should be used only against a subject who is actively resisting arrest or posing a risk to others, not someone who is simply "passively resisting."

68 Seconds

WHAT THE VIDEO SHOWS: After being Tasered by police, Dziekanski falls to the grown and flails around. Three of the officers hold him face down on the ground and handcuff him as Dziekanski struggles against them. After being handcuffed, Dziekanski gasps and moans before going silent.

WHAT CONCERNS HAVE BEEN RAISED: Donald Van Blaricom, former chief of the Bellevue, Wash. police, said police should have made Dziekanski sit up as soon as possible after he was Tasered to help him breathe normally. He said Dziekanski's resistance after being handcuffed may have been due to his inability to catch his breath. The 2005 report concluded many Taser-related deaths are likely due to the way suspects are restrained after being Tasered, rather than the Taser itself. The report recommended that, following a Taser shock, a subject should be restrained in a way that allows him to breathe easily, preferably face up.

WHO IS LOOKING INTO WHAT ASPECT OF THE DEATH

Four investigations into the death of Polish immigrant Robert Dziekanski are underway and a fifth has already been completed.

- Integrated Homicide Investigation Team (IHIT): Investigating the cause of death. This could lead to a criminal investigation and is expected to be completed before the end of this year.

- RCMP internal review: A review has been done to determine if the four officers involved in the incident acted punitively or outside their regular duties, Cpl. Greg Gillis said. No such finding was made and no further internal investigations will be conducted until judicial investigations are completed.

- The Commission for Public Complaints Against the RCMP: The commission works with the RCMP to determine the adequacy of the police response, as well as the adequacy of RCMP's investigation into the incident, commission spokesman Nelson Kalil said. The commission likely won't get fully involved in the review until an inquest is held, and an investigation into potential criminal charges has been completed.

- Coroner's inquest: Inquests are held when a person dies in police custody. The coroner's office aims to hold an inquest within 12 months of an incident, which means this one should be initiated before October 2008, coroner Jeff Dolan said. The inquest is to determine the classification of death -- accident, homicide or suicide -- and give recommendations to prevent similar situations from occurring. The length of the inquest depends on the number of witnesses to be called.

The coroner's office has already completed autopsy and toxicology reports.

- The Vancouver International Airport Authority: Review of procedures and protocols around security, translation services, responses to medical emergencies in the terminals, and methods for communicating with Canada Border Services Agency.

No timeline for completion has been set.

Kelly Sinoski, Vancouver Sun

ONLINE EXTRA

For today's developments, visit: www.vancouversun.com

TASER POLL

Most respondents disapprove of RCMP action

Reasonableness of RCMP actions during incident

Q: Regarding the Oct. 14 incident where Robert Dziekanski died shortly after being Tasered by RCMP officers at Vancouver International airport. Over all, do you think the actions of police during this incident were reasonable or not reasonable?

Approval of RCMP actions since incident

Q: Do you generallly approve or disapprove of the actions by the RCMP since the incident took place?

Seen video of incident

Q: As you may know, the video of this incident has been released to the media. Have you personally seen any of the video of this incident?

© The Vancouver Sun 2007

[Vancouver_rocks]

Obviously you didn't read my complete post. He did not back away calmly as the police entered he picked up a stapler and held it up to throw it when they decided to taser him. You made up that fact that his mother did contact somebody to look for him because she didn't. I work in the airline industry and somebody would have helped her. The idea that nobody in the airport would help is completely wrong and there is no reason to beleive it. The man was belligerent and completely out of control. The video does not show how he was acting before he decided to go to that door and start throwing stuff at people. If he had been acting similarly to employees in the restricted area then they have no reason to help him for their own safety. That is the same for any job that deals with the public, you don't deal with frustrated threatening people. It's so frustrating that everybody has to jump on the RCMP bashing bandwagon, and that the media in this country is so rediculously biased. All we have seen is a tainted picture of what happened over the 10 hour period and the rest has been speculation. Anyone acting as this man was deserves to be taken down by the police whether it's by taser or not. Nobody would have a problem with it if he hadn't died. In fact if he hadn't everyone would agree with the RCMP's actions. Perhaps tasers shouldn't be used, but that is a different debate. In this case the RCMP did what any police force would have done and perhaps that is what needs to be changed, but constantly bashing them for this is completely unjust and unfair.

[Guardian]

Well, there was quite an array of comments sent to the CBC after this incident. However, let's not blow this out of proportion. Of course, there will have to be changes made about the conduct of RCMP officers and how the airport itself functions to accommodate the very-new-arrived traveler from anywhere from around the world.

[SkiFreak]

From CTV news website:

The world reacts to the Taser video

Dziekanski's death has made headlines around the world. Now, the video of his last minutes has gone viral. It's the video with the most hits on the video-sharing website YouTube.

People from around the world are also posting their own videos and sharing their thoughts on police actions.

On the social networking site Facebook, a user group has started a petition against the RCMP officers involved in the airport death incident. The group is growing by the minute as people express what many say is their "disgust" at police actions.

Many are calling for the officers to be punished.

Tourism officials in Vancouver say they're worried the police actions -- and the fact that people from around the world have now seen the video -- will make people think twice before visiting the province.

For the full article:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

[mr.x]

The Taser video received the most hits on the video-sharing website Youtube on Friday, Nov. 16, 2007. Within 24 hours, it had recieved 200,000 hits.

[SkiFreak]

Here's a petition

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/ban-taser-guns.html

There's supposedly one on Facebook as well but I can't find it.

CTV has an eleven minute video posted on the aftermath:

CTV Video of tasering aftermath

With Youtube, Facebook, and the internet in general, people have to be aware that this stuff gets out quickly, and globaly, these days.

[mr.x]

You made up that fact that his mother did contact somebody to look for him because she didn't.

She did get someone to look for him. Why wouldn't she? She drove all the way from Kamloops to pick up her son. The airport told her he never arrived, so she drove back home. It was only when she got back home that the police phoned her to come back to Vancouver.

The man was belligerent and completely out of control. The video does not show how he was acting before he decided to go to that door and start throwing stuff at people. If he had been acting similarly to employees in the restricted area then they have no reason to help him for their own safety. That is the same for any job that deals with the public, you don't deal with frustrated threatening people.

It's so frustrating that everybody has to jump on the RCMP bashing bandwagon, and that the media in this country is so rediculously biased. All we have seen is a tainted picture of what happened over the 10 hour period and the rest has been speculation. Anyone acting as this man was deserves to be taken down by the police whether it's by taser or not. Nobody would have a problem with it if he hadn't died. In fact if he hadn't everyone would agree with the RCMP's actions. Perhaps tasers shouldn't be used, but that is a different debate. In this case the RCMP did what any police force would have done and perhaps that is what needs to be changed, but constantly bashing them for this is completely unjust and unfair.

He was held at the airport for 10 HOURS without food and water. He's also a smoker, and was probably craving for nicotine.

He definitely had some fault into his own death - how he reacted with all that vandalism, but was it really necessary to use a taser a man simply because he was holding a stapler???? The use of tasers is entirely part of this debate. If he had grabbed for a gun, a bat, a knife, grabbed an officers gun, etc. by all means then use a taser or even use lethal force. But using a taser for a stapler??? Not to mention there were FOUR TRAINED OFFICERS against ONE MAN who was tired, dehydrated, and was craving for cigarettes and food.

What happened to using physical force to subdue a man? Certainly, they could have pinned him down.

I do agree with you that both our media at home and the international media has been bashing the RCMP and Canada quite unfairly. But more importantly, i'm concerned about the international image we are getting. The Polish are thinking this is how we treat immigrants (which is absolutely not the case) and there's even an anti-Canadian sentiment. Some idiot on YouTube from South Africa posted his video commentary on the incident, and he thinks these kinds of incidents are common in Canada. Then there are comments like boycotting Canada and the 2010 Games.

At the end of the day, what's important is we find out what really happened, and learn from our mistakes so this never happens again.

[SkiFreak]

What happened to using physical force to subdue a man? Certainly, they could have pinned him down.

I do agree with you that both our media at home and the international media has been bashing the RCMP and Canada quite unfairly. But more importantly, i'm concerned about the international image we are getting. The Polish are thinking this is how we treat immigrants (which is absolutely not the case) and there's even an anti-Canadian sentiment. Some idiot on YouTube from South Africa posted his video commentary on the incident, and he thinks these kinds of incidents are common in Canada. Then there are comments like boycotting Canada and the 2010 Games.

At the end of the day, what's important is we find out what really happened, and learn from our mistakes so this never happens again.

It's comments like this posted on Youtube that doesn't help us one bit:

Posted by pistolgrip69

White tourist coming to Vancouver Canada in 2010 for the olympics. Here is you welcome Wagon.

Thanks RCMP, for tarnishing our image.

[mr.x]

^ the RCMP are to blame, but at the same time these morons from god knows where - around the world - are overgeneralizing. So I guess Canada and the RCMP is now blood drinking evil from the bottom of the hoofs to the top of the pitchfork.....hmmmmm. Not so evil when they prevented a major terrorist attack in Toronto two years ago...

The fact still remains is this was one very tragic isolated incident.

[SkiFreak]

Global TV currently has a video on their site about a tasering incident that happened here in Kelowna about a week ago. The video is from today's 6 o'clock news:

http://www.canada.com/globaltv/bc/index.html

It's disgusting that they would taser a 68 year old.

[mr.x]

Taser-wielding RCMP officer 'like kid with new toy,' woman says

'He couldn't wait to use it' wife claims of Mountie who shocked her husband, 68

Last Updated: Thursday, November 8, 2007 | 10:52 PM ET

CBC News

The wife of a Kelowna, B.C., man says an RCMP officer who shot her husband with a Taser acted like a "kid with a new toy."

John Peters, 68, and his wife Anne were delivering a free newspaper on Monday morning when they double-parked along a downtown Kelowna street, prompting a police car to pull up beside them.

The officer tried to write a ticket, but John Peters objected and drove off, his wife said.

Peters realized this was a bad idea, so he pulled over a block away and got out of the vehicle, she said.

After the officer arrived he jolted him two times with a Taser, John Peters said, adding that he had raised his arm to defend himself.

"I was protecting myself, because I'm blind in this eye," Peters told CBC News on Thursday. "I was protecting myself from his vicious advance."

Anne Peters said she had tried to tell the officer her husband suffers a neurological disorder and was unable to comprehend language when he's flustered.

The officer didn't listen, she said, and shocked her husband with the Taser.

"The police officer was like a kid with a new toy. He couldn't wait to use it."

"Well, I was so shocked I couldn't believe it. He tried to fight him off, right? But he Tasered him anyways — twice."

Kelowna RCMP spokesman Sgt. Terry McLachlan said the Peters have not filed a formal complaint, but the superintendent has ordered a review of the incident.

"It's prudent on his part to order an administrative review to make sure the policy was conformed with, and there was proper usage," McLachlan said on Thursday.

John Peters is facing three charges, including resisting arrest and obstructing and assaulting a police officer.

[earseyeswideopen]

Thankyou SkiFreak for starting this thread & expressing your feelings & perspective so clearly. Olympian2004 & Mr. X. . . . we are on the same page.

I too, want to add my voice in outrage over this inexcusable & shocking event that needlessly ended in the death of an innocent man clearly needing help & kindness; instead was attacked without mercy or conscience.

What were the police & airport authorities thinking? What is happening to mankind? Where have people's decency & caring for one another gone?

Like millions of people around the world, I feel heartsick at the brutal treatment that Robert Dziekanski met on his arrival in Vancouver. What must he thought in his final moments on earth about Vancouver? The young man who filmed it all was surely there at the right time so that everyone can SEE what happened to counter the spin that had already begun.

It IS so important for people to speak up as they are globally & not allow a COVERUP as so often happens - everyone involved in this horror story must be held responsible so this man's spirit can rest. Nothing less must be tolerated by the rest of us.

The truth will out.

[mr.x]

i never thought in the light of day that i would ever agree with earseyeswideopen on something....this truly is a scandal, yours isn't.

...anyhow, the truth IS out. In my opinion, the video is sufficient proof. Before the RCMP released the video, they spoon fed us a load of crap that never happened:

RCMP lied about details

Sharp contrast between what was said and what video showed

From Saturday's Globe and Mail

November 17, 2007 at 2:37 AM EST

Canadians cannot believe a word the RCMP have to say over the taser death of Robert Dziekanski. The cruelty of the response by four Mounties to the Polish man's plight is a shocking example of police inhumanity. The disinformation campaign waged later can only further harm the reputation and credibility of the force. How, when an RCMP spokesman stands up in the future and calmly gives a version of events involving a member, can he be trusted?

What is clear is that in the aftermath of the Oct. 14 tasering at Vancouver International Airport, RCMP spokesman Sgt. Pierre Lemaitre provided a version of events to the public that contrasts sharply with what was captured on the now world-famous taser death video.

Witnesses said Mr. Dziekanski wasn't a threat to anybody, but Sgt. Lemaitre told CBC Television that police arrived and, despite efforts to calm him, were met aggressively and confrontationally by Mr. Dziekanski. “The officers were using gestures saying, you know, relax, relax, put your hands on the desk there where the computer was taken; to no avail, [he was] still throwing things around,” said Sgt. Lemaitre.

He gave a similar account to the Vancouver Sun: “The officers tried to speak to him, tried to calm him down, but he continued to throw things around and yell and scream.” The police spokesman also told a CTV reporter that “he was pounding on the windows behind us, he was throwing chairs.”

The video shows Mr. Dziekanski rearranging furniture, and throwing something earlier on, but not as the four officers approached him. Instead, he raised his hands and moved away a few steps. He gave the appearance not of posing a threat but of exhibiting resignation. There is no evidence on the video of any attempt to negotiate with the man, or to calm him in the few seconds before he was hit with 50,000 volts.

The first taser blow left him immediately convulsed and screaming on the floor. Sgt. Lemaitre's claim that the taser “didn't seem to have any kind of effect on him” is laughable. The officer also said that “even after the handcuffs, he continued to fight.” That is the RCMP's stated justification for tasering Mr. Dziekanski again, and putting pressure on what Sgt. Lemaitre claimed was his “shoulders.” The video shows Mr. Dziekanski writhing, not fighting, before he was hit again with the taser, and reveals that pressure was placed not on his shoulders but on his neck, with a knee.

Without the video, shot by Paul Pritchard, it would have been the word of four Mounties against those of a few civilian witnesses. Now, the entire world knows how the RCMP callously misread and brutally dispatched a distressed and exhausted man from Poland.

A charitable interpretation of the statements made by Sgt. Lemaitre would be that he did not have all the information, or was himself duped by officers involved in Mr. Dziekanski's killing. Then again, it may be that Sgt. Lemaitre was complicit in an attempt to whitewash the affair. Only the RCMP know the truth. Don't expect a straight answer.

RCMP spokesman Sgt. Pierre Lemaitre's falsehoods

“The officers were using gestures saying, you know, relax, relax, put your hands on the desk there where the computer was taken; to no avail, [he was] still throwing things around.”

“The officers tried to speak to him, tried to calm him down, but he continued to throw things around and yell and scream.”

“He was pounding on the windows behind us, he was throwing chairs.”

"[The taser] didn't seem to have any kind of effect on him.”

“Even after the handcuffs, he continued to fight.”

Those officers need to be held accountable for their actions. And I do hope everything is done to prevent incidents like this from ever happening.

They have unnecessarily killed a man who came to Canada to start a new life, and they've turned a negative limelight around the world on Canada, BC, and especially Vancouver.

It's unbelievable how many morons from around the world are posting anti-Canadian/Vancouver comments on YouTube....btw, from 360,000 hits to 420,000 hits in the last 3 hours.

[mr.x]

B.C. police use of Tasers up 57 per cent

Chad Skelton , CanWest News Service

Published: Saturday, November 17, 2007

VANCOUVER -- Municipal police forces in B.C.'s Lower Mainland have dramatically increased their use of the Taser over the past two years, deploying it 57 per cent more often in 2006 than in 2005, according to statistics compiled by the provincial government.

The figures come as Kamloops prepared for the funeral today of Polish immigrant Robert Dziekanski, who died Oct. 14 after being shocked several times with the weapon by four RCMP officers at Vancouver airport. Dziekanski's mother lives in Kamloops.

Video of Dziekanski's death, which was released this week to the media, sparked worldwide attention on the use of the stun weapons.

In 2006, the Lower Mainland's six municipal forces - not including the RCMP -deployed the Taser a total of 152 times, according to figures collected by the Police Services Division.

That's up from 97 deployments in 2005, a 57 per cent increase.

Every municipal force in the region increased their use of the Taser except for West Vancouver, which saw its deployments drop from five to four.

Vancouver Police increased its use of the weapon by 41 per cent, from 66 in 2005 to 93 in 2006.

And New Westminster's use tripled, from just nine cases in 2005 to 29 in 2006.

That's in sharp contrast to Victoria, the first police department in Canada to get the Taser, which saw its use of the device drop from 79 in 2005 to 59 in 2006.

Kevin Begg, director of B.C.'s Police Services Division, said the Taser's use has steadily increased since then as police forces purchase more of the devices and provide more training to more of its officers.

"In the initial years, there were very few Tasers and they were often in supervisors' cars," said Begg. "Today ... you'll have on a shift, generally, one or two officers that are trained and actually carry the Taser with them."

The RCMP said Friday it was unable to provide comparable figures for its detachments in the province.

The Mounties do have a national database that collects figures on use of the Taser by its officers, but its definition of use includes cases where the weapon was drawn but not activated.

Over the past two years, the RCMP in B.C. reported 914 such uses of the Taser, but the force was unable to break that figure down by detachment or by year.

Murray Mollard, executive director of the B.C. Civil Liberties Association, is not convinced of the Taser's benefits.

His group has called for a complete moratorium on use of the Taser pending an independent public inquiry into its safety.

Mollard said when police in B.C. first began using the device in 2000, they argued it would serve as an alternative to their firearm - stunning dangerous criminals who might otherwise be shot.

Instead, said Mollard, police seem to often rely on the Taser to subdue non-dangerous suspects who could be dealt with in other ways - such as Robert Dziekanski.

"It's clear that we've drifted," he said. "Instead of an option of last resort, the Taser has become an option of almost first resort."

In other parts of Canada, the police use of Tasers has been brought into question.

Alberta Premier Ed Stelmach committed his to government participating in any national review of Tasers.

"We want . . . to see that whatever rules we have in place for the use of a Taser are safe," said Stelmach, "(and) find a balance between the protection of the police officer, but also of the person that's being arrested."

And the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary has cancelled a plan to equip its front line officers with Tasers.

A small number of Tasers are still in use by the force's tactical response team. But Const. Shawn O'Reilly said the plan to buy 41 more weapons to equip front line officers is on hold pending the review of incidents in other jurisdictions.

Vancouver Sun

With files from Calgary Herald

cskelton@png.canwest.com