jim jones Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Mr X. I don't think wind alone is the problem. Since the construction of BC Place you have had the construction of some major condo towers and that alters wind patterns. Wind shear and micro bursts were cited for a report I saw and that is very likely with the newer construction around that building. There is another dome of the same roof material and design that they had a unique solution to an aging roof. The Dakota Dome replaced the fabric with a steel dome for a very simple reason. The roof was getting near the 25 year expected life of the fabric and a steel roof would give them 65 years of life. The foundation was there with the stadium bowl so they just removed the fabric and replaced with steel superstructure. With the new convention center you are looking at the revenues for BC place going away and the BC Lions and the occasional rock show may not be enough to justify a new roof. They will replace and th panels and hope than it gets them thru the olympics. Jim Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Maybe they should think about adding a retractable roof like Toronto has. That's kinda hard to do when you have the stadium in place. The rails have to be designed as part of the overall structure, from scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.x Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 A retractable roof [that is different from SkyDome] would be ideal, but it would cost a lot. Think about it.....a stadium built to hold up a inflatable fabric roof is now going to hold up a steel roof superstructure? I don't think so....at least not without significant reinforcement and additional supports to the existing stadium walls. Though it's possible to build a separate structure over the stadium, holding up the retractable roof. Yes, it's quite true that the canyons of condo towers that surround BC Place today are altering wind patterns. Some scenarios i would like to see: STADIUM RENOVATION ($100-200 million) (maybe before 2010) - new fabric roof ($40 million) - renovated interiors ($30 million) - new glass facade surrounding concrete exterior ($50 million) - new seats ($15 milllion) - new state-of-the-art lighting and sound ($20 million) - new state-of-the-art video screens and scoreboards ($15 million) NEW STADIUM ($250-400 million) (after 2010) - demolish BC Place - build new open-air stadium with landmark roof design - 45,000 permanent seats expandable to 60,000 - glass facade - stadium will have smaller footprint than BC Place, will have space for adjacent hotel tower and office tower The fact is, either way this city/region needs a major stadium the size of BC Place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.x Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 The storm has arrived. Winds are gusting at 80 km/h and will continue into the night. Between 5-15 cm of snow are expected! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancouver_rocks Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Well I just saw the news and the roof does not look good at all. There are several rips in it visible from inside. The BC Place crew is covering their asses so much as well. The kept saying the building heat was on then the reporter said "yeah 10 degrees" and the worker repeated "building heat was on as usual." It's pretty obvious that they popped the roof. Instead of turning on the heat to melt snow that accumulated over night they increased the pressure inside to try and remove the snow that was quickly being made heavy by rain. You can see snow accumulations in this video as the roof is deflating also when it rips again snow is clearly visible falling off the ripped section. And controlled deflation my ass. I'm pretty sure it was deflating no matter what. That whole is huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim jones Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 A retractable roof [that is different from SkyDome] would be ideal, but it would cost a lot. Think about it.....a stadium built to hold up a inflatable fabric roof is now going to hold up a steel roof superstructure? I don't think so....at least not without significant reinforcement and additional supports to the existing stadium walls. Though it's possible to build a separate structure over the stadium, holding up the retractable roof.Yes, it's quite true that the canyons of condo towers that surround BC Place today are altering wind patterns. Some scenarios i would like to see: STADIUM RENOVATION ($100-200 million) (maybe before 2010) - new fabric roof ($40 million) - renovated interiors ($30 million) - new glass facade surrounding concrete exterior ($50 million) - new seats ($15 milllion) - new state-of-the-art lighting and sound ($20 million) - new state-of-the-art video screens and scoreboards ($15 million) NEW STADIUM ($250-400 million) (after 2010) - demolish BC Place - build new open-air stadium with landmark roof design - 45,000 permanent seats expandable to 60,000 - glass facade - stadium will have smaller footprint than BC Place, will have space for adjacent hotel tower and office tower The fact is, either way this city/region needs a major stadium the size of BC Place. Heres the study for dakota dome which was designed by the same architects as bc place http://www.sdbor.edu/publications/PressRel...0DakotaDome.htm the cost of the new steel roof was to be 6 million dollars according to the university. It is of course a smaller building but you have the same principals with the concrete probably having to be both very strong is tension and compression with the fabric roof . With a steel roof you are going to reduce tension loads because fabric acts like a sail thus creating tension but you will increase compression loads because of the added weigh. Who knows filling in the mechanical rooms for th blowers for the room would probably add material to counter compression load. a perminant steel roof has been done in with the same architect's design for a roofing system i am cure they didnt just design for a fabric roof. BC place went beyond the life cycle of the roof and that is the real problem . jim jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim jones Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 man mr x They are going to tear it down and sell it to developers lock stock and barrell. The gastown stadium proposal will be the replacement and the BC lions dont need a 60,000 seat stadium. they do about 30,000 and there is the new convention centre on the water front for basically a stadium would have one tennant who is only doing 30,000 people a game . The money they would get from developers would probably build the new stadium at the gastown site. The olympics will be the last ha rah. OH by the way the glass concourse thing around bc place , your estimate is low considering the miami dolphins stadium is costing 250 million to do similair work . jim jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.x Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Well I just saw the news and the roof does not look good at all. There are several rips in it visible from inside. The BC Place crew is covering their asses so much as well. The kept saying the building heat was on then the reporter said "yeah 10 degrees" and the worker repeated "building heat was on as usual." It's pretty obvious that they popped the roof. Instead of turning on the heat to melt snow that accumulated over night they increased the pressure inside to try and remove the snow that was quickly being made heavy by rain. You can see snow accumulations in this video as the roof is deflating also when it rips again snow is clearly visible falling off the ripped section. And controlled deflation my ass. I'm pretty sure it was deflating no matter what. That hole is huge. I agree. And I'd think tonight's storm would cause even more damage......80 km/h winds with gusts of 100 km/h, plus the snow. The huge rippling we saw on the news isn't good for it. The roof is suppose to be capable of 120 km/h winds when inflated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave199 Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Is it even possible to have the roof permanetly removed? It would look much better during the games and atleast the flame would be properly situated where people inside and outside the stadium can see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.x Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 man mr x They are going to tear it down and sell it to developers lock stock and barrell. The gastown stadium proposal will be the replacement and the BC lions dont need a 60,000 seat stadium. they do about 30,000 and there is the new convention centre on the water front for basically a stadium would have one tennant who is only doing 30,000 people a game . The money they would get from developers would probably build the new stadium at the gastown site. The olympics will be the last ha rah. OH by the way the glass concourse thing around bc place , your estimate is low considering the miami dolphins stadium is costing 250 million to do similair work . jim jones In 2004 and again in 2005, the Premier stated he is looking into renovating the stadium or building a new stadium on site after the Olympics. The Gastown proposal, known tentatively as Whitecaps Waterfront Stadium, is too small for the BC Lions. The Lions want a stadium with at least 35,000 to 45,000 seats and expandable to 50,000 for the occasional Grey Cup. Not to mention that this new stadium is a 100% privately funded soccer stadium and it will only have 15,000 seats - no public funds are required. If there is ever enough demand, a second tier of stands can be built to increase seating capacity to 30,000. AND regarding the renovated Miami Dolphins Stadium, they're increasing floor space by something like 360,000 square feet.....that beats BC Place's 247,000 square feet of exhibition space. So yea, a US$300 million (not $250 million) renovation is quite necessary, especially if what they're building is going to be all "luxurious". I'd say $50-75 million would be required to build a modest glass facade. BTW, the only way you can get into the stadium is by an air lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.x Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Is it even possible to have the roof permanetly removed? It would look much better during the games and atleast the flame would be properly situated where people inside and outside the stadium can see it. Among many things, they'd have to install heating into the interior parts of the stadium, new lighting and sound, and they'd have to install drainage......otherwise, you're just asking for a very very ugly toilet bowl: *world's largest toilet bowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave199 Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Among many things, they'd have to install heating into the interior parts of the stadium, new lighting and sound, and they'd have to install drainage......otherwise, you're just asking for a very very ugly toilet bowl: *world's largest toilet bowl Add a nice framing around the stadium like they did in Athens. The stadium would look great. The main point is this stadium needs a serious facelift, it looks like **** and this is the stadium that Vancouver is using for Olympic ceremonies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.x Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 The stadium is in serious need of a facelift. Its concrete exterior creates a deadzone around it, the sound system is terrible (very echoey), the lighting is terrible. And the supposedly white roof is actually brownish - both inside and outside. Even when it was built, it was a very bare-bone stadium....not much in it, just lots of grey concrete everywhere. So much for that ring of fire cauldron idea.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.x Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE | BC PLACE STADIUM, a division of BC Pavilion Corporation January 9, 2007 BC Place roof assessment nears completion as new panel arrives Vancouver, BC – A team of over 90 people are currently hard at work assessing and repairing the damage to BC Place following a tear in a roof panel on Friday afternoon and subsequent damage over the weekend. A total of 90 staff – 45 stadium staff, 35 riggers, 10 restoration experts – and a safety consultant are working around the clock despite adverse weather conditions. A crane at the stadium was grounded at 9:30AM today due to strong wind gusts and was recommissioned at 1:30PM. Precautions are being taken for all assessment teams. “Progress is being made and the new panel will arrive tomorrow, and at this time the safety of everyone working so hard at the stadium is our number one priority,” said Howard Crosley, General Manager at BC Place. “Weather continues to be a factor in the timing of everything. When we hit a clear spell with the weather, our crews will plan on working through the night. Once the weather eases, the panel replacement will take between 24-48 hours.” The old fabric and clamping have been removed from the original torn panel on the west end of the roof, and anchor nuts for the new panel have already been prepped. A rope net will be put up for the new panel to be placed on, before another rope net is placed on top. The new panel will then be clamped into place. “Once the panel is in place and all inspections have been carried out, we will begin to consider re-inflation of the roof,” said Crosley. “Building pressure will be gradually raised and the roof will re-inflate in less than one hour.” Assessment of the damage to BC Place is nearing completion, with a second technician from roof manufacturer Birdair due to visit the stadium tomorrow. “The three tears in the middle section of the roof are being heat-sealed with patches,” said Crosley. “Again, the weather is a factor – if wind gets underneath the fabric it will make it more difficult to repair. We will continue to heat the building in the event of any snowfall.” - 30 - For further information: Linda Bilben 604 505 3171 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.x Posted January 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Downtown Vancouver BC Place during a BC Lions game BC Place during the Opening Ceremony of the Expo 1986 World's Fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave199 Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 This stadium should have been demolished, and a new one built right in time for the Olympic games. I think it's kind of late to do such a thing now since the games are 3 years away. It would have been great to remove the white bubble from this stadium and keep it as an open roof stadium, give it a nice facelift, install all the fixtures, etc. Keep the stadium for another decade or for however long the city believes they should keep it over the construction of a brand new stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Where's that stadium-whore, Mo Rush, when you need 'im (or 'er)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.x Posted January 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 How our dome went down By BOB MACKIN, 24 HOURS | January 10, 2007 According to B.C. Place Stadium's 1992 roof management and preparedness report obtained by 24 hours, roof operators are supposed to call Central Heating to order 70,000-90,000 pounds per hour of steam when prompted by emergency sensors. The steam is supposed to be sent between the Teflon-coated fiberglass roof's two layers to melt snow and avoid roof damage. That wasn't done last Friday before the dome's roof ripped. Stadium general manager Howard Crosley maintains snow wasn't piling atop the lid. Photographs disprove his claim and so does a 24 hours' source. The source said a mass of snow, ice and slush avalanched when air pressure was doubled in desperation. It sheared the roof near the concrete ring beam, creating a gaping hole above Section 54 on Level 4. "It never had to happen," said the 24 hours source. "Why would you gamble? If it's snowing, turn on the snow melt!" Trouble began around 4 a.m. when snow was detected on the roof, but director of operations Brian Griffin refused to order the snow be melted. The interior temperature was kept at 10 C all morning as four fans kept the roof aloft. Around 12:30 p.m., two workers noticed the roof drooping and asked a superior if the west side's public address speakers were being lowered purposely. The roof began to flatten, then "they went into panic mode" and doubled the air pressure. The massive tear exposed the site of the 2010 Winter Olympics' opening and closing ceremonies to the elements. It collapsed before 1 p.m., though Crosley continues to claim it was a "controlled deflation." The roof was originally installed for $9.3 million and inflated in November 1982. The 1992 report estimated the cost of a new roof at $13 million to $17 million. btw, the temporary replacement panel for the big rip is to arrive today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.x Posted January 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 It appears that last night's fierce wind and snow storm has left BC Place Stadium with even more holes and tears, and it has also broken bolts anchoring the teflon-coated fabric to tension cables. Not looking good....more news later. Canada Place roof fine: Officials By BOB MACKIN, 24 HOURS B.C. Place Stadium's 24-year-old tattered and torn roof has a younger cousin across town. The famous five sails over Vancouver Convention and Exhibition Centre employ the same Teflon-coated fiberglass covering from Birdair Inc. It's not air-supported, but stretched skyward by masts. Canada Place operations director Andy O'Neill said it is inspected and cleaned annually and is in good condition. It opened as Expo 86's Canada Pavilion and will be part of the 2010 Winter Olympics' media centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.x Posted January 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 The replacement panel for the tear in the roof of B.C. Place is lifted to the roof. The 150-foot teflon triangle came to B.C. from Mexico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 And are they sending back the torn parts to Mexico? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenadian Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Yes, it will be made into Mexican blankets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Yes, it will be made into Mexican blankets. ...and ponchos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Well, 860,000 people are expected to attend the Olympic Opening/Closing/Nightly Medal Ceremonies and Paralympic Opening Ceremony.....so it's quite significant. Uh, okay. Like I said, BC Place is not going to be that significant that, if things were to get worse for it between now and the opening day of Vancouver 2010, the various ceremonies would have to be majorily displaced by it. Besides, having these sorts of things outdoors has not been much of a problem in the past Winter Olympics. But, if VANOC wants to be unique in this manner, who am I to criticize the decision? It will just face the same challenges as the other past Winter Olympics host cities to come up with ideas and other contiguous matters to make the Winter Olympics operate with minimal difficulties as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.x Posted January 13, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2007 BC Place reveals human error to blame for giant roof tear January 12, 2007 - 1:38 pm By: Jim Goddard VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - A preliminary report on the collapse of the fabric roof over BC Place Stadium points to three main factors for the giant tear, with human error cited as the main cause. Dome staff say the air supported roof blew out much like an over-inflated balloon. General manager Howard Crosley says his staff accidently pumped too much air into the stadium too fast for the roof to handle when they noticed it was sagging a bit last Friday. He points out there were three problems that combined for the blow out. "There appears to have been a weakness in the fabric, there was the error that was made with the increased rapid pressurization and the wind factor outside." Crosley calls the combination, "the perfect storm" to cause a roof collapse. Normally an accidental over inflation would not blow out a section of the roof. Crosley still doesn't know when all the repairs will be completed so the roof can be inflated again. The damage is covered by insurance with a $75,000 deductable that will come out of the stadium's general budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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