FYI

All these cons against Beijing in 1993, but yet they still managed to come only within 2 votes from winning. And it seems also interesting, that they were in the lead as well in every round, except of course the last one. The Chinese nearly had it in the palm of their hand, even back then.

But China played the political card back in 2001 to win these Games. That "these Games would 'improve' the social agenda in China, including 'Human Rights'." "By giving us (China) the Olympics, it would serve as a catalysts to 'open up' China to the rest of the world." Now China is crying foul. Whatever. They brought this on themselves, & now they're saying that the Games shouldn't be politicized, but yet they didn't have a problem doing just that when they were bidding for the Games 7 years ago! What hypocrisy.

What is it with some people that think the IOC makes rational & "noble" decisions. Are these people hiding under a rock, &/or can't face up to the truth of the matter. To say that the 2008 IOC vote was "fair" & that the IOC didn't play politics in to their choice is clearly being oblivious to the circumstances surrounding & attributing to the final result.

I don't see a big dumb looking white Aussie with a Beijing Olympic logo shirt.

I'm surprised environmentalists aren't having a fit over that. So much for the IOC trying to advocate "Green Olympics".

What I meant was totalitarian governments. That would then increase the numbers to, Venezuela, Iran, Russia & other Asian & African nations.

Even if all this unfolded a few years back & the IOC stripped the Games from Beijing, it still would've been a PR disaster for them. China would've boycotted (along with other commie countries China would've recruited) the Games to whomever they would've been given to instead, & probably boycott the Olympic movement all together. Not to mention what else the Chinese would've done. The IOC would've been better off not to have awarded the Games to Beijing to begin with.

Has anything been said about the Relay in B.A.? I've been watching all the news networks & all they show are snippets. Nothing major must've occured. They covered the S.F. Relay to it's entirety & nothing for B.A.! Just goes to show the American mentality, if it ain't in the U.S., most Americans pay no mind.

They should duke it out at a boxing match @ the Games & make it an Olympic event. I'm sure it would sell tickets.

That is fantansy alright. There's absolutely nothing the IOC could do at this point in time. They won't/can't cancel the Games, & it's absolutely terribly, horribly late to move them. The only thing the IOC can do now, is sit back & brace themselves for what looks to be an inevitably, very turbulent ride & hope for the best! Hopefully, they've learned their lesson though & not to flurt & engage themselves with dictorships.

Looks like Rogge is finally coming out of his shell. To tell China that they need to start fulfilling their promise & moral committment probably took a lot of nerve on his part.

You're twisting things, faster. I never made any "grossly overstated & inaccurate accusations" against Turkey. Go back & read the thread again. What I said was to a much "lesser degree". I know that Turkey is not nearly as bad as China & something I iterated & that even Ahmet agreed with. I also know that Turkey is the most moderate, secular & liberal country in the Muslim world (I don't need you to tell me that), but it's still not on par with the other Western European nations (even the E.U. has stated that Turkey needs to fix some issues before their E.U. application can progress). That's all I said & then you come up with your word twisting. You're something else.

For the 3rd time, the U.S. does not oppress it's OWN people the grotesque way China does, that's the issue & that's what all the protests are all about. Let's take Turkey out of it for the moment, cuz that's all you seem to be focusing on. The two governments are hardly comparable.

Wonder how Buenos Aires is going to handle their Relay. Any word yet how Canberra is going to handle theirs & how many demonstrators are expected?

Sorry if I misunderstood your post then.

It wasn't me who made the initial statement, it was Guardian. The only one getting "hysterical" about is you with your abrasive post.

I know, I heard that too. That's why one shouldn't believe evertyhing that they hear on the news. London 2012 has already said that they are strongly committed to a domestic relay, just they international portion is the one in question.

I agree with Davey. This is China's moment to shine & they don't want anything to go wrong or be embarassed &/or anyone to embarass them. They're not gonna forget which countries might embarass them during these Games & will pay them back in one way or another, that being political, economical or otherwise. The Chinese have a lot of cards to play with nowadays & they'll them deal them out in the appropiate fashion as they would see it.

They're talking about eliminating the international portion, but there'll always be a domestic leg.

Expect tit-for-tat in London in 2012 from the Chinese.

Yes, I understand what you meant, but then you brought up the U.S. (& Argentina), which again don't treat their very own citizens as grossly as China (& to a lesser degree, Turkey), which really is what everyone is in protest of.

Exactly. I think that many people are confusing the two, & therefore think that somehow this jeopardizes the Olympic movement. The Olympics have survived much worse than this. If anything, all this is, is a big pot-hole down the Olympic Road.

The major difference though is how China (& to a lesser degree, Turkey) treat their *own* citizens. Deflecting the subject doesn't change that fact.

"But it is not the governments that are protesting. It is individual citizens and activists." I realize that it's citizens. Exactly the point. Why criticise a 'foreign' government about HR's, when you need to start with your own government first. How can someone teach you something when they themselves are still learning too.