2020 Olympics - Where?

[Rafa]

"Isn't that the reason why Patis and New York lost their bids in 2012, they didn't have solid plans for brand new stadia and that is what the IOC want."

I never said 'Patis' didn't have a solid plan, if you read carefully, you wold notice I clearly stated, it didn't have a solid plan for brand new stadia. And let me apologise, to you without fault making a mistake in my spelling of Paris, I am clearly a noob who doesn't know how to spell the French capital city.

Anyways, are you really going to deny that fact? Truth is without plans for new stadia, the IOC is not very interested. Paris was obviously capable of hosting one of the most spectacular games yet but the fact it was using leftover stadia from France '98 surely pissed the IOC and cost them their bid.

Paris lead the 2012 bid( by about 10 votes) until Seb Coe and his team stepped up for the final presentation in Sing-gapore(sebs pronunciation).

It was a close race between London and Paris, and I believe that by the time they reached Sing-gapore it wasn't the bland Stade de France the IOC members had on their mind BUT the grey suits the Paris 2012 team wore and the "lack of passion" during their presentation. In the minds of the IOC it had more to do with understand London's vision. Picturing the olympic park.

London offered a package and communicated/explained it very well. I've always said to win a bid you must get your vision across to IOC members, create the Olympic park render and video, show them the Stade de France lit up at night.

Do a "Day 2 of Sochi 2014"....Take them to 2016 or 2020!!

Great renderings won it for London, like it did for Sochi, like it did for Beijing.

the current Chicago 2016 stadium rendering simply won't do. Rio need to jazz up their main venue. They need to realize itsa free for all after making the shortlist. Focus on the frills, the venue overlay, good renders. Don't promote the Pan Am stadium an an excellent athletics venue, that meet IOC requirements and has excellent sightlines(although London did use that).

Describe Estadio Havelange as the epicentre of the Games. The Samba heartbeat of the city and a magical arena to welcome the athletes of the world!

[Sir Rols]

I know you LOVE renderings Mo, but I think you overstate their importance. Quite simply, EVERY finalist bidder comes up with great renderings _ I doubt there's much to draw between them when it comes to that.

London won it on superb lobbying, knowing when to peak their momentum and their final presentation. Similarly, Beijing were never going to lose, whether they rendered their stadiums in 2B pencil on the back of an envelope or not.

[Lord David]

It should also be noted that Paris probably contributed to it's failure with excessive temporary arenas. Yes, temporary arenas are a fine solution to avoid white elephants, but are needlessly costly. London provided some legacy through that most temporary arenas would be rebuilt elsewhere in the country, to usable post Olympics.

[ChicagoUSA2016]

Admitting I am a n00b I'd like to ask a question here. Many cities brought up as possible bid cities for specific years are said to be "geo-politically" incorrect for that year.

Looking at 2016 are any of the 4 remaining cities fighting this battle? Madrid trying to host 2016 after London's 2012? Tokyo after Beijing 2008? Chicago after the USA has hosted 1996 and 2002?

Just wondering??

Thanks!

[wingspread]

Admitting I am a n00b I'd like to ask a question here. Many cities brought up as possible bid cities for specific years are said to be "geo-politically" incorrect for that year.

Looking at 2016 are any of the 4 remaining cities fighting this battle? Madrid trying to host 2016 after London's 2012? Tokyo after Beijing 2008? Chicago after the USA has hosted 1996 and 2002?

Just wondering??

Thanks!

The Americas (Chicago, Rio) are right on schedule to host the games based on the perceived geographical rotation. And I don't think Beijing will drag Tokyo down that much.

[jim jones]

Admitting I am a n00b I'd like to ask a question here. Many cities brought up as possible bid cities for specific years are said to be "geo-politically" incorrect for that year.

Looking at 2016 are any of the 4 remaining cities fighting this battle? Madrid trying to host 2016 after London's 2012? Tokyo after Beijing 2008? Chicago after the USA has hosted 1996 and 2002?

Just wondering??

Thanks!

Well the wonder can go away with the US and hosting in 2016. Chicago is one hour behind the Golden Timezone for TV rights. Rio is only one hour Ahead. Madrid is 4 hours ahead just like London but the recent record has shown that Torino , Athens and Sydney are not making money for the Games largest economic donator America TV and the US Sponsors. A great article yesterday About the influence of NBC on the Games in Toronto's Globe and Mail. I think this is very much a contest between Chicago and Rio and considering no city has ever been awarded the games contested Twice outside the European Continent that plays against Chicago and Tokyo. A return to Spain 24 years after Barcelona is highly unlikely as well especially on the heals of a European Held Games in 2012 and a Winter games really in Europe for 2014. Beijing ,as a frontier Host, had the highest ratings ever for a Non US summer olympics and that bodes well for RIO. A great Time zone for Broadcasting and interest for a new fresh frontier host would please NBC , GE , Mc Donalds and Coca Cola and those are the parties that provide the gravy train for the IOC. Going to Chicago or Rio in 2016 and then the the opposite country I could see.

Something that NBC is having a problem with these games is the migration of viewers to computer Screens because of the time difference and that NBC would be wasting Daytime viewing if they indeed broadcast live. This why despite Athletes complaints the finals for swimming (while setting world records) in the Beijing Morning NBC could tell them to swim at 3 am in the morning if it put that event in East coast prime time and the IOC would do it. THe internet video sources were not the problem for Athens 2004 that they are for NBC and Beijing in 2008. Going to Tokyo in 2016 would probably have the TV ratings in the states tank simply becuase technology will be even further advanced to the point of no real difference in Video and Audio on PCs.

Here is a quote on the TV ratings for the Olympic Opening ceremonies

Some 34.2 million viewers watched the Opening Ceremony, smashing the previous record of 27.3 million for NBC's coverage of the 2000 Summer Olympics from Sydney, Australia, according to Nielsen Media Research, which released the figures.

The largest U.S. television audience for a Summer Olympics Opening Ceremony was 39.77 million for the 1996 Atlanta Games. Television coverage of Olympiads held in the United States traditionally draw larger audiences than those from outside the country because of larger overall interest in the Olympics.

Viewership was up 35 percent from the 25.38 million that watched the Opening Ceremony of the 2004 Athens Games.

Friday's ceremony from Beijing also drew the highest rating for a non-U.S. opening ceremony -- 18.6 -- beating the previous record of 18.1 for the 1960 Rome Games on CBS, the first Summer Olympics to be extensively televised in the U.S.

In 1988 ABC actually bonused Calgary for the runaway ratings success those games were for American audiences. I would not be surprised if NBC, the IOC and the local OCs have a similar arrangement today. Overall the health of the Games is driven by money and expansion of Revenues no other country provides the Cash to the Olympics like the United States does.

Jim jones

[jim jones]

He said a solid plan for brand new stadiums. Paris had a solid plan but there wasn't a brand new stadium at the centre of it. That was his point.

No, it's not at all clear. Tell me which "developing countries" could spend £40bn on an Olympics; the sort of sum most would be looking at when you factor in new airports, roads, bridges etc? Using Beijing is a 'model' for developing countries is kind of irresponsible.

You assume that there will actually be a nation that will spend 40 billion plus on the Games. It is never going to happen outside of Beijing. THe UK moans about the cost at 18 billion and rightfully so. THe United States you would have serious legal action and the last two summer games were basically privately funded. 40 billion in Beijing's case included relocating factories which did not do much good. Would any city or Nation provide 40 billion dollars for a possible 3 to 4 billion in Revenues ? That is about the extent of TV rights , ticket sales and merch. I am being liberal in that estimate.

Voters in California and LA rejected public funding the 84 games. THe Canadian Olympic Association is not even going to attempt to ask for Toronto as that city is in debt 5 billion . A huge correction in Scale is coming as the limits of what public and private funding can provide is approaching the limit in many places. When you hear lets Host the Pan Am Games in southern Ontario as it is realistic Coming out of the mouths of Canadian Olympic officials then it may indeed be over for those Summer Olympics ambitions for a while. You are also going to hear that in other places as well. I doubt you will see places like Prague bid again.

As to Le phillippe and Africa. Watch it will happen simply because of the Correction to come much like the correction that happened in 1984 for the summer games. Developing nations or Rather Emerging Economies are not going to do Beijing but neither are the industrialized countries especially the European Union Countries. THe only one I can see is maybe Russia and they basically probably resent two things with the Olympics A. The boycott of their Coming Out party in 1980 and B. that it took nearly 100 years until the largest land mass and a Nordic nation won the right to host the winter olympics.

Think of the trend 10 billion for Athens , 40 billion for Beijing and 18 billion for London. After a while you run out of the real estate willing to pay out for the games that atleast double in cost every cycle.

The big thing that increases these games is the repeated use of Brown Field Sites and building of new Venues. The Correction will have existing venues and any new venues being on Green field sites . That rules out Much of Asia and Europe.

jim jones

[ltp74]

I have to chuckle every time someone brings up a Detroit-Windsor Olympic Bid, first off the City of Detroit and State of Michigan are broke with people moving out every day, the Big 3 automakers are not and will not be in a position to help under right the games, the area's of the city between downtown and the suburbs look like Dresden in 1945, the current Mayor of Detroit has been in and out of jail the past few weeks, Windsor is a nice place but it is a small city, has nowhere near the money to fund any major sporting events and no room downtown for athletic facilities.

But in one of those wouldn't it be cool scenarios the idea of a Detroit-Windsor Games with athletes marching across a new bridge between the cities to the Opening Ceremonies would be really cool.

[Wildcat612]

I think this is very much a contest between Chicago and Rio and considering no city has ever been awarded the games contested Twice outside the European Continent that plays against Chicago and Tokyo. A return to Spain 24 years after Barcelona is highly unlikely as well especially on the heals of a European Held Games in 2012 and a Winter games really in Europe for 2014.

Are you saying that no city has been awarded the games twice outside of Europe? What about Los Angeles? And Chicago has never hosted before so I think it might actually help that bid that they were awarded the 1904 games but didn't get to host.

As for 2016, I think Beijing's games will really inspire the Japanese and American bids, who have more of a rivalry with China than the other two nations. As an IOC member, I'd also be worried about giving Rio the 2016 games on the heels of their 2014 World Cup responsibilities. Yes, there'd be a new stadium, but it would have been made for the Olympics' chief competitor in the field of international competitions and Brazil might be hard-pressed for money after its previous national event.

In the end, I think Chicago will get the 2016 games. Ruling out the "no chance" bids, that leaves 2020 with potential bids from Rio de Janeiro, Buenos Aires (at some point, with all these Brazilian bids, BA is going to want to compete with its rival), Cape Town, Dubai, Istanbul, Busan, and then several major European cities--Berlin, Prague, Rome, Madrid. I think Pyeonchang will get the 2018 Olympics, ruling out Busan's bid. European animosity toward Turkey must not underestimated, ruling out that bid. Dubai's bid will likely come across as extravagant and there could very well be worries about the heat as with Doha. Finally, it seems like two games in the Americas is unlikely and so Rio and BA would likely fail.

That would leave the 2020 games to be hosted by Cape Town or a European city, most likely Berlin or Rome. If I was an organizers of Paris's bid to host the Olympics in 2024 (100 years after their last games), I'd be rooting for Cape Town.

[Rafa]

What does Beijing do to the 2016 race.

Beijing = WOW = big budget = amaze the world = big revenues = record audiences in the US apart from Coca-Cola 1996.

Chicago pitching up with renders of scaffolding and a 15% roof is not going to sell so well.

Remember IOC members are in Beijing witnessing the pure size/scale of the Games and the boldness. While a few are anal e.g. the bald IOC member that asked silly questions during the final presentation in 2005, will go for sustainability. Many will be swayed by current trends of big spending and iconic venues.

Many are convinced Beijing will hurt Tokyo. They of course haven't seen the renders of the early conceptual design for their waterfront stadium.

[Aronious]

What does Beijing do to the 2016 race.

Beijing = WOW = big budget = amaze the world = big revenues = record audiences in the US apart from Coca-Cola 1996.

Chicago pitching up with renders of scaffolding and a 15% roof is not going to sell so well.

Remember IOC members are in Beijing witnessing the pure size/scale of the Games and the boldness. While a few are anal e.g. the bald IOC member that asked silly questions during the final presentation in 2005, will go for sustainability. Many will be swayed by current trends of big spending and iconic venues.

Many are convinced Beijing will hurt Tokyo. They of course haven't seen the renders of the early conceptual design for their waterfront stadium.

Renders? WTF? They mean nothing Mo. Don't you remember the rendering of the very first Beijing Stadium? Not something thats going to sway the IOC.

Design of venues in the candidate stage mean nothing.

[dave199]

The designs always change, just ask London about that.

[Sir Rols]

You with the renders Mo .. tsk, tsk, tesk

The more sensationalist media might have selective memory when it comes to comparing bid render stadiums with what is eventually built, but we all here know, just as well as every IOC member does, that the pretty pics in the bid books rarely bear any resemblance to the finished reality come cauldron lighting time. I doubt if they'd even sway one vote. Stadium renders are just to make the plans look as schmick as possible, and to tease architecture whores and the people who love dreaming up their ultimate fantasy stadiums.

[Rafa]

Beijing was always going to win.

Renders are vital. London had the best for 2012, sochi the best for 2014 and Beijing for 2008(Toronto messed theirs up).

The WOW of Beijing might still be in the minds of many IOC members, and a WOW waterfront proposal by Tokyo should get it past round 2

[Rafa]

Chicago will need to revamp their olympic stadium render. Thats not gong to cut it.

[Rafa]

Sport News > Time will come - IOC official

http://www.mcst.gov.bw/dailynews/sportsdet....php?id=%209875

By Kesentse Ketumile

BEIJING - Africa is the only other continent that has never hosted the biggest sporting event in the world, the Olympic Games.

In an interview at the ongoing Beijing Olympic Games the International Olympic Committee (IOC) board member and chairman of the Press Commission, Mr Kevan Gosper, said the time will come, and the sooner the better.

Mr Gosper said everybody wants to see Africa stage the games, which they have never hosted. South America is also awaiting its chance.

He said South Africa tried through their Cape Town bid in 2004, but lost to Athens, adding that Egypt, through its capital, Cairo has shown interest to bid for the games.

Mr Gosper said with Africa represented at the IOC executive board level, it should be possible to convince other members to give Africa a chance.

Africa, has only managed to stage the Rugby World Cup in South Africa and it is hoping to open its gates to millions of people for the 2010 FIFA World Cup to be staged in South Africa.

Many African countries, Botswana included, has been sending athletes to Olympic Games with some bringing home medals.

The games should be brought closer for African athletes to even perform better.

However, the hosting of the Olympic Games would not come cheap for interested countries as Mr Gosper explains that it requires $2 billion (more than P13 billion) to cover the operational costs.

“This does not include the other billions of dollars the country has to spend on the infrastructure of the games and other logistics,” said Mr Gosper.

China had spent $38 billion (close to P254 billion) alone on overall preparations for the games and had engaged almost 300 000 volunteers to ensure the smooth running of the games.

The country, with a population of 1.4 billion has so far staged a world class event that would be impossible to repeat

Even 2012 hosts, England, through the city of London, are not expected to beat China’s record, of staging the most expensive Olympics in history. BOPA

[Sir Rols]

Beijing was always going to win.

Renders are vital. London had the best for 2012, sochi the best for 2014 and Beijing for 2008(Toronto messed theirs up).

The WOW of Beijing might still be in the minds of many IOC members, and a WOW waterfront proposal by Tokyo should get it past round 2

Mo, Renders are bullsh!t. We know it and the IOC know it. Sipping tea in a hotel suite with Tony Blair won more votes than pretty pictures.

[Rafa]

Mo, Renders are bullsh!t. We know it and the IOC know it. Sipping tea in a hotel suite with Tony Blair won more votes than pretty pictures.

Votes are won by lobbying. But that final impression that makes the difference between 54-50 53-51 or 52-52 are those lasting impressions in the back of a memebers mind. do they share the vision your city tried to get across. I maintain that Chicago's current renders won't take them over the finish line if its a close vote. Looking forward to new designs and renders leading up to copen.

Not so sure Blair was "drinking tea", especially not at the rate IOC members were moving in and out of his room.

Raunchy bugger.

[Lord David]

Mo, Renders are bullsh!t. We know it and the IOC know it. Sipping tea in a hotel suite with Tony Blair won more votes than pretty pictures.

No, it was Tony Blair speaking in French at the IOC session that helped sway the votes to London.

Same went to Sochi, when Putin spoke in English and a bit of French. It's last minute lobbying like that that could really WOW some IOC members.

[Tanaka_Ray]

How could renders are important thing in bidding process ? We all know what London did, they change their renders, that also happen in Beijing etc, so I think renders is not important thing, I also surprised when I read that Cairo want to host the games too ? Cairo is one of the most air populated in the world, their air polluted is worse than Beijing, so IF Beijing one of their major problem is their air pollute how Cairo will handle this problem ?

[Rafa]

Renders form part of the package to get your vision across to IOC members. If you can;t get that across be prepared to fail, even if you Paris. If you don't seem excited about your bid then don't expect any other IOC members to excited.

Blair got plently of IOC members excited in his hotel room BUT seb coe and the London visuals got them across the line.

[Lord David]

I hope Copenhagen bids for the 2020 games (in a first bid attempt), then the committee could use Lego models of the venue plans to show for the IOC.

[Rafa]

Copen won't bid or will they.

How many ioc sessions have been hosted in the last 30 years in a future host city?

Guatemala, Singapore, Moscow...

[Aronious]

saying renders matter is like claiming the candidate logo's matter. I know they help to gain public support but to the IOC i doubt logos at that stage have any major impact given the winner will always change theirs.

Mo you've really lost it on this one. The IOC aren't a bunch of teenagers who give in to advertising and flashy colours. They're smarter than that.

[Lord David]

saying renders matter is like claiming the candidate logo's matter. I know they help to gain public support but to the IOC i doubt logos at that stage have any major impact given the winner will always change theirs.

Mo you've really lost it on this one. The IOC aren't a bunch of teenagers who give in to advertising and flashy colours. They're smarter than that.

If that were the case, then why didn't they force London organisers to change the logo after it was revealed? Was it because of the extravagant cost?