I Love Minneapolis Posted July 19, 2003 Report Share Posted July 19, 2003 I think that the following cities will bid, those marked with * means bid in 2012, so one of those wont bid for 2016, so here are my picks: New York* Rio* Paris* London* Moscow* Madrid* Istanbul* Leipzig* (If Leipzig loses in 2012, the i think Frankfurt will be Germany's bid for 2016) Havana* Kuala Lumpor, Malaysia Cape Town, South Africa Prague, Czech Republic Milan, Italy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
can135 Posted July 20, 2003 Report Share Posted July 20, 2003 I think that the following cities will bid, those marked with * means bid in 2012, so one of those wont bid for 2016, so here are my picks:New York* Rio* Paris* London* Moscow* Madrid* Istanbul* Leipzig* (If Leipzig loses in 2012, the i think Frankfurt will be Germany's bid for 2016) Havana* Kuala Lumpor, Malaysia Cape Town, South Africa Prague, Czech Republic Milan, Italy The results of the 2012 campaign will have an effect on who runs in 2016. Should the victorious bid be from Europe, then I don't think that the 5 losing bids + Milan will automatically bid for 2016. If North America is victorious ( and I'm going to assume for the moment that it is NYC, not Havana), then 2016 could have more high powered names than 2012 - London, Paris, Madrid, Milan, Istanbul, Germany (I hope Berlin this time), Russia ( I hope St. Petersburg this time also),+Prague + Asian cities from Japan, Korea, Malaysia, etc. + South America + Africa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
can135 Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 If Rio is selected for 2012, and if Pyeongchong is selected for 2014, can you picture the fight for 2016 - both North American and Europe would claim that is was their turn - 20 years last SOG in North America (Atlanta) and 10 years since last games (WOG of 2006 in Turin) in Europe. I think all the gloves would be out for that fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahmet Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Thats true! but this only if Europe does not get the 2012.. which is mot likely not going to happen! I just realized that if any European city wins besides Istanbul then Istanbul can forgetting bidding up until at least 2020! I hope Istanbul is the one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Map Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 If Madrid loses, I'm sure they will bid again and if 2012's bid is shortlisted the Spanish OC will choose it again with even more support than they had for bidding 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOlympiadsW Posted July 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 2012 Cities that will bid if they lose: NYC Rio Madrid London Paris Milan Cape Town Prague IMO if a European city wins 2012 the games will go to either Cape Town or Rio bringing the games to a new continent. I also feel NYC will be a very strong contender for 2016 if Europe wins 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOlympiadsW Posted July 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 very interesting can135...just to think 2016 can be even bigger then 2012...if NYC is selected hsot for 2012 Do you think this might play out on voting day for the IOC...like the memebers from Czech. Rep and Italy and other nations which can vote on that day might vote for NYC to make a possibility for their bids for 2016? Also the IOC may want to get more large cities bidding for 2016 and the future and will keep them going by going to NYC in 2012 do you think this is a possibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 With the IOC anything is possible. They're such an unpredictable organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 With the IOC anything is possible. They're such an unpredictable organization. Amen to that, FYI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Love Minneapolis Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 If Rio is selected for 2012, and if Pyeongchong is selected for 2014, can you picture the fight for 2016 - both North American and Europe would claim that is was their turn - 20 years last SOG in North America (Atlanta) and 10 years since last games (WOG of 2006 in Turin) in Europe.I think all the gloves would be out for that fight. I totally agree, that is the main reason I dont want Europe 2012, and why I am toatlly backing Rio 2012, i hope this because then Europe can get some other "shy" cities like Prague and maybe some of the big European countires can pick better cantidates (Germany-Leipzig 2012 ??? --Hopefully Berlin 2016 , and also Russia-Moscow 2012 --Hopefully St. Petersburg 2016 ), also hopefully Italy will bid for a Summer games with either ROme or Milan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjmac Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 Interesting post.... but with all of the speculation of interested cities for 2016... I have yet to see TORONTO in the mix.... Toronto will bid for 2016 if New York or Havana don'twin 2012. AND THAT IS NOT LIKELY!!! It will have been 30 years since a summer games happened in North America (Atlanta 1996) so it will be North America's turn. The biggest challenges will come from South America, Asia, Oceana and Africa. Europe will be out because Paris will, most probably win 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahmet Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 All those people whom keep bring an Italian Summer Games Bid... you guys need to remember that Torino, Italy will be hosting the Winter Ganes in 2006! So do you think that Italy's chance to get the Summer games after only 10 years it hosted the winter games is good? ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
can135 Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 Interesting post.... but with all of the speculation of interested cities for 2016... I have yet to see TORONTO in the mix....Toronto will bid for 2016 if New York or Havana don'twin 2012. AND THAT IS NOT LIKELY!!! It will have been 30 years since a summer games happened in North America (Atlanta 1996) so it will be North America's turn. The biggest challenges will come from South America, Asia, Oceana and Africa. Europe will be out because Paris will, most probably win 2012. It will only have been 20 years from 1996 to 2016. and in that time, North Anerica will have held 2 WOG's Actually in the period 1996 to 2010 (the ones that have been held or decided), the split is: North American - (3) - 2 WOG (SLC, Vancouver) - 1 SOG (Atlanta) Europe - (2) - 1 WOG (Turin) - 1 SOG (Athens) Australia - (1) - 1 SOG (Sydney) Asia - (2) - 1 SOG (Beijing) - I WOG (Nagano) North America hasn't been too hard done by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
can135 Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 All those people whom keep bring an Italian Summer Games Bid... you guys need to remember that Torino, Italy will be hosting the Winter Ganes in 2006! So do you think that Italy's chance to get the Summer games after only 10 years it hosted the winter games is good? ??? I've been thinking the same thing - they keep holding Barcelona against Madrid, but support a Milan or Rome bid for 2016 It didn't seem to hurt Canada by having Calgary in 1988 vs Vancouver in 2010; and obviously Korea wasn't hurt too badly by Seoul in 1988 vs Pyengchong in 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 All those people whom keep bring an Italian Summer Games Bid... you guys need to remember that Torino, Italy will be hosting the Winter Ganes in 2006! So do you think that Italy's chance to get the Summer games after only 10 years it hosted the winter games is good? ??? I've been thinking the same thing - they keep holding Barcelona against Madrid, but support a Milan or Rome bid for 2016 It didn't seem to hurt Canada by having Calgary in 1988 vs Vancouver in 2010; and obviously Korea wasn't hurt too badly by Seoul in 1988 vs Pyengchong in 2010. Never mind that Toronto, in a remote sense, may try to bid for the 2016 Olympics. Of course, Toronto's chance in the Olympic spotlight will most likely be a little later than 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahmet Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 All those people whom keep bring an Italian Summer Games Bid... you guys need to remember that Torino, Italy will be hosting the Winter Ganes in 2006! So do you think that Italy's chance to get the Summer games after only 10 years it hosted the winter games is good? ??? I've been thinking the same thing - they keep holding Barcelona against Madrid, but support a Milan or Rome bid for 2016 It didn't seem to hurt Canada by having Calgary in 1988 vs Vancouver in 2010; and obviously Korea wasn't hurt too badly by Seoul in 1988 vs Pyengchong in 2010. Ya but the difference between Calgary and Vancouver in years is 22 years... where are Torinto and Rome/Milan is only 10 years... of coarse if you do have a 22 year gaps your odds of hosting the games are much better compares to 10 years... son't u think so? ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOlympiadsW Posted July 25, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 In my opinion bid from almost any European city (especially Paris) do not receive too many problems borught up about the amount of games they have held and when they were held. Although i do acknowldge this doe shave some effect I believe it effects bids from other continents much more then Europe (especially North America). When Vancouver won you did not stop hearing how NA would be "put out of commision" for a number of years until they will host again. But no one seems to remember that back to back games (even tripletgs) have been awarded to Europe : Barcelona '92 Albertville'92 Lillehammer '94 Athens '04 and Torino '06 And people bringing up 1992 against Madrid probably support Paris...well if umm.....if I ma not mistaken didn't France host in 1992? And when bids in the future come from Milan didn't Italy just hsot in Torino 2006? Just my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted July 26, 2003 Report Share Posted July 26, 2003 Well, for starters, Albertville was a WINTER Games. While Paris is bidding for a SUMMER Games. That's why Pyeongchang almost won the 2010 election, despite of Beijing 2008, because they are DIFFERENT Games. The IOC has said, in so many words, that they *do not* group the Winter & Summer Games together, when it comes to chosing a host city. They're more concerned about rotation when it's the same type of Games (I.E. Summer to Summer/Winter to Winter). And all this going on, & on, & on..., by some people, about why Europe can get so many "consecutive" Games but North America can't, has gotten redundant. Why is it so hard to understand that Europe is made up of literally dozens of countries that can host the Olympics, while North America only has 2, maybe 3 countries, at the most, that are capable. It's simple math, geez. It's not that hard to grasp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOlympiadsW Posted July 26, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2003 Hi FYI, Well since you pointed out that Albertville was a Winter Games and that this does not tie in with the rotation tghat much then why when the US is discussed people bring up NOT ONLY Atlanta 1996 but also SLC 2002, if I am not mistaken wasn't that a Winter Games? Also this sounds redundant to you...good now you know how I feel always hearing about rotation and how it will hurt countries OUTSIDE of Europe..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted July 27, 2003 Report Share Posted July 27, 2003 Again, it's just how the IOC works. No amount of complaining is going to change how Euro-centric the IOC is, most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted July 27, 2003 Report Share Posted July 27, 2003 ...I forget to say; I know it's not fair, but that's just the way it is. I really would like to see Rio get 2012, but unfortunately, I think 2012 is Paris' to lose. This is Paris' 3rd (2nd consecutive) bid & I really don't that think the IOC is going to snub them for a 3rd time. The theory is/was by many, for a long while, that Vancouver winning 2010 would inevitable, at least, impede New York's 2012 chances, because of all the interested European bidders this time around. It certainly doesn't make it "impossible" for New York, but they definitely have an up-hill battle on their hands because of this. Not to mention, this is only New York's first bid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatsnotmypuppy Posted July 27, 2003 Report Share Posted July 27, 2003 While I agree that Paris seems the frontrunner - with so many Euro bids, FYI, the number of European votes that are allowable will be considerably less than in other bid cycles. The 2012 winner will probably be decided by Asian, African, Oceania and Latin American voting blocks. Therefore I see Rio getting alot of early votes - from both Latin America and Africa, with possible support from some Oceania nations - if only to boost Southern Hemisphere bids. However Argentina and Chile may hold back to boost thier chances for possible Buenos Aires/Santiago bids. Also with the number of winter events being held in Chile (Valle Nevado), they are building infrastructure that may support a future Winter Games bid. Australian (as well as NZ/Carribean/Canadian) votes will likely go to London or NYC due to our international ties between the UK and US. The available Euro votes may be compromised- will Austria vote Europe if Innsbruck wants 2014? Will the Scandanavian voters back a Euro city when they may be eyeing 2014 as well? What will Korea, Japan and China do? 2014 may indeed be destined for an Asian city - PC, Muju, Harbin, Aomori, Sapporo... Then again Busan may still go for 2016... So basically 2016 is such a minefield at the moment, I'm just gonna blindly back the Turks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
can135 Posted July 27, 2003 Report Share Posted July 27, 2003 All those people whom keep bring an Italian Summer Games Bid... you guys need to remember that Torino, Italy will be hosting the Winter Ganes in 2006! So do you think that Italy's chance to get the Summer games after only 10 years it hosted the winter games is good? ??? I've been thinking the same thing - they keep holding Barcelona against Madrid, but support a Milan or Rome bid for 2016 It didn't seem to hurt Canada by having Calgary in 1988 vs Vancouver in 2010; and obviously Korea wasn't hurt too badly by Seoul in 1988 vs Pyengchong in 2010. Ya but the difference between Calgary and Vancouver in years is 22 years... where are Torinto and Rome/Milan is only 10 years... of coarse if you do have a 22 year gaps your odds of hosting the games are much better compares to 10 years... son't u think so? ??? My point was more that the time between Seoul and pyeongchang was 22 years, Calgary and Vancouver was 22 years, while Barcelona and Madrid would be 20 years. Several people are holding Barcelona against Madrid but it didn,t seem to matter for the first two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted July 27, 2003 Report Share Posted July 27, 2003 That would be nice, but I don't think it's going to pan out that way. The very first Games in South America would be great, it's time to explore New Frontiers, but Paris looks like it's going to get in the way of that. And I don't know about Istanbul. If the IOC is gonna go with Europe for 2012, I don't see them picking Istanbul but rather Paris, while London would be a somewhat second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahmet Posted July 27, 2003 Report Share Posted July 27, 2003 So basically 2016 is such a minefield at the moment, I'm just gonna blindly back the Turks. Thanks for the early support! We need it fi we loose 2012 to a city outside of Europe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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