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The Short List Is In...


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Moscow is not overrated. At the moment, it is the city with almost everything ready and which has a lot and lot of experience in staging World Champs and multiple-sports events. It is the less risky choice therefore came on top of a technical evaluation.

This being said, Moscow is by no mean a shoe-in. Now that the cities have passed the technical threshold it all comes down to emotional, sentimental, political considerations.

A city like Moscow doesn't seem a good example of trasparence, freedom and democracy for the youngs. Sorry but from a sentimental point of view I can see it as the ideal host.

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Agreed with bearcrossuk -- YOGs were supposed to be a smaller thing, I thought. That is why I thought Debrecen for sure. YOGs = only about 3500 athletes. That's way less than the summer universiades or the Asian Games. So why's it so much harder to get awarded the YOGs than other games? I think in the end it will be S'pore b/c it is completely safe, both physically and that they _will_ get everything done they promose. And Moscow has already hosted so much stuff. One drawback though, S'pore is a long plane flight from almost anywhere.

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A city like Moscow doesn't seem a good example of trasparence, freedom and democracy for the youngs. Sorry but from a sentimental point of view I can see it as the ideal host.

Well, I'm sure you just don't know what is Russia, what is Moscow and what happens there. It's about a time to stop watching fox and reading wsj, washington post etc. Do you also believe that the Red Square in Moscow is full of completely drunk bears?

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I think KL's bid were done unprofessionally. Looking at the technical aspects, KL shoud have gone through.. I think the education & cultural aspects of the bid was not really thought of. I'm surprised since Malaysia has always been an advocate for education in whatever things we do. It's just that the person who compiled the bid were only filling in the forms.. instead of gathering inputs from all parties...

It's becoming a usual thing with KL.

Its 2008 Questionnaire was also poorly prepared. In particular, the maps lacked precision and it was difficult to locate the venues and see how they were connected to the transportation network. Again, that's one of the experts group main comments about KL YOG 2010 application...

Too bad.

Hopefully, sometimes KL will get serious about it.

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I mostly referred to Putin and his entourage.

Putin and federals does not rules in Moscow, Luzhkov does. And Moscow is still very independent from federals to perform its own foreign political and economical relations. That's why there was no federal support in Moscow 2012 bid, nor now for 2010. As well as there was no Moscow support for Sochi 2014 bid. Its financial and economic situation allow it to be independent. Somehow economy will overpass London this or next year, budget is third largest in the world after Tokyo and New York - $48bln of expenditures planned in 2008. It's more than 2,5 times larger then London consolidated budget.

Anyway, your knowledge about Putin and entourage is significantly distorted by prejudiced media. As of freedoms in Moscow. They are very high, especially in media. Largest tv operators provides all type of news channels in one packet, including foreign, russified foreign channels and russian channels.

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Bangkok??? What a surprise?

But as we said Athens, Moscow and Turin are on the short list. I think it will be between Athens and Moscow, and, although Moscow can organize the event better, I prefer Athens just because the Olympic Games are Greek and Athens looks like a good start for the Youth Olympics, and it's such a beautiful city... :rolleyes:

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Here is the shortlisted cities score based on the scoring system. I not sure how it works.

Moscow (7.5 - 8.4)

Singapore (7.4 - 7.9)

Athens (6.1 - 7.2)

Turin (5.5 - 6.3)

Bangkok (5.4 - 5.7)

The lower score is the 'worst case' pessimistic scenario, the higher - the 'best case' optimistic one.

Basically this means that if Athens prepares well and Moscow prepares poorly then Moscow will still be technically better (7.5 vs 7.2 :) - just an example, no offense meant for Athens).

The spread between the scores signifies uncertainty - the most certain (low) score is Bangkok, and the most uncertain is again Athens.

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The lower score is the 'worst case' pessimistic scenario, the higher - the 'best case' optimistic one.

Basically this means that if Athens prepares well and Moscow prepares poorly then Moscow will still be technically better (7.5 vs 7.2 :) - just an example, no offense meant for Athens).

The spread between the scores signifies uncertainty - the most certain (low) score is Bangkok, and the most uncertain is again Athens.

CORRECTION!!!

I looked at the scores and found that the quotes above are quite incorrect.

Here are the correct ones (from the last page of the REPORT OF THE IOC PANEL OF EXPERTS).

Moscow 7.5-8.5

Singapore 7.4-7.9

Athens 6.2-7.2

Bangkok 5.5-6.7

Turin 5.7-6.3

So, the 'most uncertain' title belongs to Bangkok.

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and it's such a beautiful city... :rolleyes:

Have you guys been to Moscow recently?

It's awesome.

I've been to all the five short-listed cities.

It is hard to compare them in terms of 'beauty' - they are all beautiful, each in a different way.

However the selection has little to do with a 'beauty contest'.

I tend to agree with the PoV expressed here earlier that the rules of the game now are 'technically excellent' (Moscow) vs 'strategically fit' (Singapore) vs 'historic fit' (Athens).

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It's becoming a usual thing with KL.

Its 2008 Questionnaire was also poorly prepared. In particular, the maps lacked precision and it was difficult to locate the venues and see how they were connected to the transportation network. Again, that's one of the experts group main comments about KL YOG 2010 application...

Too bad.

Hopefully, sometimes KL will get serious about it.

Apparently, I believe the OCM and the Ministry of sports are not in the best of terms with each other. Lately there are a few issues that highlight a certain rife between the two. I think that explains why we get such an early comment from the OCM president that when they have decided not to bid, the Ministry asked them to prepare the bid anyways...

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CORRECTION!!!

I looked at the scores and found that the quotes above are quite incorrect.

Here are the correct ones (from the last page of the REPORT OF THE IOC PANEL OF EXPERTS).

Moscow 7.5-8.5

Singapore 7.4-7.9

Athens 6.2-7.2

Bangkok 5.5-6.7

Turin 5.7-6.3

So, the 'most uncertain' title belongs to Bangkok.

Sorry , about that my mistake. Wouldn't it be accurate if we just find the average of each city ?

Moscow 8

Singapore 7.65

Athens 6.7

Bangkok 6.1

Turin 6

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Sorry , about that my mistake. Wouldn't it be accurate if we just find the average of each city ?

Moscow 8

Singapore 7.65

Athens 6.7

Bangkok 6.1

Turin 6

No because the range gives a very important indication: the degree of uncertainty about the evaluation of the city capability.

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theone, tell me something, why do you always seem to be taking an anti Singapore stance, with your latest being that they should be disqualified from the selection of the 2010 Youth Olympics? Are you jealous of Singapore's success or something like that? I wanted to be very harsh in my post here but have managed to refrain and control myself from doing so, I just want to let you know that I feel offended by your anti Singapore attitude and instead of picking on others try to evaluate yourself first and find out why Malaysia failed to make the cut.

Maybe its time for Malaysia to do away with the discrimination against the Chinese and treat them as equals. Perhaps things will improve for Malaysia then.

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I am in support of Moscow though Russians are tough people. Singapore should do some thing about their bid it's wrong to have tiny Singapore in the race with my boy NYCD2010. I think Singapore will lose due to its obsession with cleanliness!

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What can i say? i'm a little surprised about Bangkok (altought not totally, since they hosted recently the Summer Universiade with sucess), but i was pretty sure for the beggining that Moscow and Singapore would enter the final race. As i said in some thread before, since Moscow have hosted a lot of youth festivals and that sort of things, they got a lot of chances, but Singapore has proven to be a worthy rival (and let's remember that on the last bids the favorite always lose :lol: ), so i cant predict exactly who would take the victory. But for me, it's one of the two. Athens could have chances too since they have recent infrastructure thanks to the 2004 SOG.

PD: james, when you got 18 years, maybe you will be able to say something coherent. You should not visit this forum.

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I am in support of Moscow though Russians are tough people. Singapore should do some thing about their bid it's wrong to have tiny Singapore in the race with my boy NYCD2010. I think Singapore will lose due to its obsession with cleanliness!

So sad to see you rear your ugly head. I wouldn't expect someone like you to support Singapore obiviousily you haven't seen the scores. Neither do you know any venues in the two cities. IOC says one of main conpect is to give smaller countries to host.

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Bid presentations via video conference.

Link: YOG 2010: Bid City Presentations Via Video Conference

Important paragraph from article: "The IOC Evaluation Commission is innovating in the way it is evaluating the cities. It will not travel to the five cities, but will offer each one of them the opportunity to formally present its bid by way of a video conference call. The following principles will apply for this call: video conference calls shall last a maximum of one hour; the six members of the IOC Evaluation Commission shall meet in Lausanne for the video conference; the choice of who to include on the city’s panel is up to the bid committee/NOC but could include IOC members from the country, representatives of the bid committee/NOC, public authorities, government or experts, for example; and the video conference call shall be structured in two parts: a 15-20 minute verbal presentation by the city to present its bid, followed by questions and answers."

Could this idea be used for future Olympic Games bid presentations?

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The Straits Times published Moscow and Singapore's scores in the paper today. Here they are

1) GOVERNANCE

SG: 9-9

MC: 8-9

2) GENERAL INFRASTRUCTURE

a)Transport

SG: 9-9.5

MC: 8.5-9.5

B)Technology

SG: 6-8

MC: 6-7.5

3) SPORTS & VENUE

a)Quality

SG: 6.5-8

MC: 7.5-9

B)Masterplan

SG: 7-9

MC: 7-8.5

c)Experience

SG: 6-7

MC 7-9

4) CULTURE & EDUCATION

a)Education Programme

SG: 8-10

MC: 7.5-9.5

B)Culture Programme

SG: 6-7

MC: 6-7

5) YOUTH OLYMPIC VILLAGE

a) Concept

SG: 8-9

MC: 8-9

B)Feasibility - Highest score in this section is 1

SG: 0.7

MC: 1

c) Location

SG: 7-8.5

MC: 6.5-8.5

6) TRANSPORT OPERATIONS

a) Management

SG: 7-8.5

MC: 6.5-8

B)Distance/Travel Times

SG: 7-8.5

MC: 6.5-8.5

7) ACCOMMODATION

SG: 7-10

MC: 8-10

8) FINANCE

a) Revenue

SG: 6-8

MC: 5-7

B)Expenditure

SG: 6-7

MC: 6-8

c) Shortfall

SG: 7-8

MC: 5-6

9) OVERALL PROJECT

SG: 7-9.5

MC: 7-9

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theone, tell me something, why do you always seem to be taking an anti Singapore stance, with your latest being that they should be disqualified from the selection of the 2010 Youth Olympics? Are you jealous of Singapore's success or something like that? I wanted to be very harsh in my post here but have managed to refrain and control myself from doing so, I just want to let you know that I feel offended by your anti Singapore attitude and instead of picking on others try to evaluate yourself first and find out why Malaysia failed to make the cut.

Maybe its time for Malaysia to do away with the discrimination against the Chinese and treat them as equals. Perhaps things will improve for Malaysia then.

Like chill , it was not meant to be taken to the heart. It was just a joke. Btw, Pedra Branca is ours ! Lol, just another joke.

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Bid presentations via video conference.

Link: YOG 2010: Bid City Presentations Via Video Conference

Important paragraph from article: "The IOC Evaluation Commission is innovating in the way it is evaluating the cities. It will not travel to the five cities, but will offer each one of them the opportunity to formally present its bid by way of a video conference call. The following principles will apply for this call: video conference calls shall last a maximum of one hour; the six members of the IOC Evaluation Commission shall meet in Lausanne for the video conference; the choice of who to include on the city’s panel is up to the bid committee/NOC but could include IOC members from the country, representatives of the bid committee/NOC, public authorities, government or experts, for example; and the video conference call shall be structured in two parts: a 15-20 minute verbal presentation by the city to present its bid, followed by questions and answers."

Could this idea be used for future Olympic Games bid presentations?

That would be great ! My fear of Moscow dragging Putin to infuence voters first-hand is over.

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