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BBC investigation over treatment of young gymnasts


Guardian

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  • 2 weeks later...

I agree with Jacques Rogge - it's very easy for western societies to judge others by their own standards (which themselves are not perfect).  I don't agree with all the policies of the Chinese government and I wouldn't want a return to corporal punishment in my country, but it wasn't long ago that children were hit by teachers at school.  I'm not that old, but I was unfortunate enough to have been sent to a private church school when I was young (although I escaped the customary sexual abuse that seems to be as much a tradition in these institutions as going to church on Sunday!) I was hit by my teacher.

It didn't do me any harm :oo:  :upside:  :Oo:

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I heard some strange things from a Dutch rowing-coach. He was talking about some methods China use. They are a lot like the old methods they used in the former East-european countries. It was at least a controversial system.

The athletes are four years in a camp, without contact with family. When they sucseed at major championships or Olympics they are heroes and will be released  from the camp. Otherwise they will get back to the camp and practise for an other four years.

Is this the way we will deal with young people, just to win some gold medals???

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The chinese and western people have different opinions on how to educate their kids. My parents beat me many many times when I was 5 or 6 years old, but I never doubted that my parents loved me. My father was an elementary school teacher, whenever somebody send their kid to his school, they always ask him to "beat him/her if he/she does not listen to you".

The chinese have always respected how western people educate their kids, never questioned (or "shocked") why western people would not educate their kids (that is, would not beat them). Maybe it is time that western people learn to respect how the chinese educate their kids.

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  • 2 months later...
NBC does a fluff piece on the Chinese gymnasts every Olympics especially on the men. It always goes into how they were taking from their villages at a very young age and only go back to see their families once a year.  It is like national digrace and dishonor if they don't win the gold. I feel bad for the team chose in 2008. Those men are going to a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE amount of pressure on them to win the gold medal in their home country.
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The chinese and western people have different opinions on how to educate their kids. My parents beat me many many times when I was 5 or 6 years old, but I never doubted that my parents loved me. My father was an elementary school teacher, whenever somebody send their kid to his school, they always ask him to "beat him/her if he/she does not listen to you".

The chinese have always respected how western people educate their kids, never questioned (or "shocked") why western people would not educate their kids (that is, would not beat them). Maybe it is time that western people learn to respect how the chinese educate their kids.

I know people who were brought up in the West but with a traditional Chinese upbringing, and they are simply craven, mousy people who work hard and get excellent grades, but who have no personality or dynamism. They found jobs easily due to their supreme intelligence but keep on being passed over for promotion because of their inability to do anything other than processing financial spreadsheets.

This is what beating your children does to them.

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I know people who were brought up in the West but with a traditional Chinese upbringing, and they are simply craven, mousy people who work hard and get excellent grades, but who have no personality or dynamism. They found jobs easily due to their supreme intelligence but keep on being passed over for promotion because of their inability to do anything other than processing financial spreadsheets.

This is what beating your children does to them.

I have no intention to argue that the chinese way is better than the western way, but if you think processing financial spreadsheet is all the chinese can do, you are deadly wrong. China has plenty of successful business persons, to name a few, Robin Li (Baidu CEO), Jack Ma (Alibaba CEO), Zhengfei Ren (Huawei CEO), Chaoyang Zhang (Sohu CEO). Plus, do you think it is great financial spreadsheet skills that brought China the right to host 2008 Olympic games?

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Is this the way we will deal with young people, just to win some gold medals???

That's it!~

That's China's famous athletes' way to the gold.

Many athletes are gold winner and Olympic Champion. That's their life way.

But after their success, they will relish benign higher education and many other things, but what about the other athletes? That's not really a equitable thing.

And many Olympic champions didn't have a good base education when they are athletes.But after they becoming the Olympic Champions they could have chance to go to the BEST UNIVERSITIES...

That's really a PROBLEM of China's national sport constitution.

Many people in China also suspicion this.And many people wanna try to change this constitution.

That's the constitution of China sports now.

im a Chinese,but I really dont think this is a good constitution.

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I know people who were brought up in the West but with a traditional Chinese upbringing, and they are simply craven, mousy people who work hard and get excellent grades, but who have no personality or dynamism. They found jobs easily due to their supreme intelligence but keep on being passed over for promotion because of their inability to do anything other than processing financial spreadsheets.

This is what beating your children does to them.

I have no intention to argue that the chinese way is better than the western way, but if you think processing financial spreadsheet is all the chinese can do, you are deadly wrong. China has plenty of successful business persons, to name a few, Robin Li (Baidu CEO), Jack Ma (Alibaba CEO), Zhengfei Ren (Huawei CEO), Chaoyang Zhang (Sohu CEO). Plus, do you think it is great financial spreadsheet skills that brought China the right to host 2008 Olympic games?

Oh, of course there will be exceptions. You've got 1 billion people after all.

But stereotypes often have their basis in truth and the stereotype of Oriental people being mousy, afraid to question authority etc. does have some degree of truth to it. It's so obvious to me, because I'm studying at a Western university with a huge Chinese population, and the Chinese people tend to be the ones who never speak in class.

This may be fine back home, but if you are a Chinese person living in the West, you have to be outspoken to compete with the white people.

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and the Chinese people tend to be the ones who never speak in class.

This may be fine back home, but if you are a Chinese person living in the West, you have to be outspoken to compete with the white people.

I totally agree that the chinese students tend to be the ones who never speak up.  This is just another cultural difference between the oriental and western people. Chinese people pay more attention on what people do rather than what they say, and I do not see any solid evidence that this is inferior to the western way.

You are absolutely right that the chinese students need to be outspoken if they want to succeed in the western countries (a chinese saying says that wherever you go, you have to follow the rules there), and nowadays many chinese students return to China after completing their studies because of this reason. In case you are not aware, Robin Li and Chaoyang Zhang graduated from American schools.

By the way, I kind of get the feeling that you tend to think the western way is always better than any other way. I hope not all western people are like you. Lastly, with all due respect, I think it is preposterous to have the chinese kids trust BBC more than their own parents.

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  • 3 weeks later...
and the Chinese people tend to be the ones who never speak in class.

This may be fine back home, but if you are a Chinese person living in the West, you have to be outspoken to compete with the white people.

I totally agree that the chinese students tend to be the ones who never speak up.  This is just another cultural difference between the oriental and western people. Chinese people pay more attention on what people do rather than what they say, and I do not see any solid evidence that this is inferior to the western way.

You are absolutely right that the chinese students need to be outspoken if they want to succeed in the western countries (a chinese saying says that wherever you go, you have to follow the rules there), and nowadays many chinese students return to China after completing their studies because of this reason. In case you are not aware, Robin Li and Chaoyang Zhang graduated from American schools.

By the way, I kind of get the feeling that you tend to think the western way is always better than any other way. I hope not all western people are like you. Lastly, with all due respect, I think it is preposterous to have the chinese kids trust BBC more than their own parents.

Wow, I posted something here and forgot all about the thread. I don't know whether mousepad has remembered it either but I'll post a reply for anyone who will listen.

In case you are wondering, I am a Brunei citizen of Chinese ancestry living in the UK. Years ago, I used to be a cultural relativist but then I came to the UK and started mixing with people from all around the world who had come to the UK and felt liberated from the confines of their home countries. There was the Pakistani girl who was happy to be away from her nagging parents who continually pressured her to marry and become a baby machine. There was the Iranian girl who was so pleased that she didn't have to wear a hijab when walking down the streets. There was the Hong Kong guy who enjoyed the fact that he was living in a city where people were interested in things other than the latest fashions and films. Finally, there was myself. I felt that in the UK, I could fully develop myself as an individual in a way that I couldn't back home.

So to be frank, yes, I love Western culture, and the libertarian, secular, humanist values that it is based on. I would even go on to say that in many ways, Western culture is superior.

You guys can come up with the argument that Asia has performed well economically but academic studies have shown that this was merely due to massive capital investments (physical and human) and that these countries could have massive rates of growth simply because they started from very low bases. This is what is happening to China now. Let millions of peasants move from agricultural jobs to manufacturing jobs and the country booms. But what happens when everyone has become educated? You face the situation of countries like Singapore which had massive rates of growth in the past, but which have plateaued. What do you do then?

At this stage, Singapore will have to invest in something elusive. which economists such as myself call 'total factor productivity'. It is very hard to define but broadly speaking, it refers to the realm where ideas and intellectual thoughts propagate. This is where countries like Singapore suffer because their education and belief systems are so Asian oriented that they cannot match the West in this aspect.

So China can carry on with its child abuse and still have spectacular rates of growth, but in 30 - 40 years time, it will realise that it is lacking something.

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  • 3 weeks later...
The chinese and western people have different opinions on how to educate their kids. My parents beat me many many times when I was 5 or 6 years old, but I never doubted that my parents loved me. My father was an elementary school teacher, whenever somebody send their kid to his school, they always ask him to "beat him/her if he/she does not listen to you".

The chinese have always respected how western people educate their kids, never questioned (or "shocked") why western people would not educate their kids (that is, would not beat them). Maybe it is time that western people learn to respect how the chinese educate their kids.

The question is what do you define as being 'beaten'?

As a child, my parents smacked me when I stepped out of line. A clip round the ear, or a slap on the back of the leg or the slipper to my backside. That wasn't beating, but discipline.

A teacher simply would not be allowed to do that kind of thing to a child. Moreover, what the piece was alleging was more along the lines of child abuse. I don't think anybody can realistically respect that.

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