Vancouver Convention & Exhibition Centre Expansion Project

[mr.x]

The Vancouver Convention & Exhibition Centre is expanding...

...and the Vancouver Convention Centre Expansion Project Ltd., a company wholly owned by the Province of British Columbia, is responsible for building it!!

The expansion is made possible by a funding partnership of the Province of British Columbia , the Government of Canada and Tourism Vancouver. The expansion project will more than triple the Convention Centre's available space and will serve as the international broadcast centre and main press centre for the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games.

OVERVIEW

Opened on July 4, 1987 , the existing Vancouver Convention and Exhibition Centre (VCEC) got its start as the Canada Pavilion during Expo 86.

Within 10 years, the convention centre was at capacity with an obvious need for additional space, particularly as Vancouver became known as one of North America 's leading meeting and convention destinations.

In fact, in 2003, some $100 million in delegate spending was lost because Vancouver did not have enough meeting space to accommodate groups wishing to hold conventions in the city.

The expansion of the convention centre followed a review by the Convention Centre Task Force, made up of members of the business community. The task force needed to make a thorough business and marketing case for public funding before the Province decided to proceed with the project on the land and water site adjacent to the west side of Canada Place.

The project is managed by Vancouver Convention Centre Expansion Project Ltd., which is wholly owned by the Province of British Columbia . The 1.1 million sq ft project will triple the convention centre's existing capacity and help generate an additional $107 million annually in delegate spending.

The expansion will increase the number of delegate days each year from the current 150,000 to nearly 370,000 within the first five years after opening. On average, a delegate will spend about $350 per day during their visit to Vancouver, with about one-third of convention delegates traveling to other parts of the province as part of their stay.

Built over land and water on some 1,000 piles, the expansion will be completed in late 2008. In 2010, the VCEC will be home of the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Games media and broadcast centre.

In order to ensure that the expansion and existing facility are fully integrated, a glass-walled connector will link the facilities, providing delegates with exceptional harbour views as well as a seamless transition.

Featuring floor-to-ceiling glass throughout the expansion, the project will also include a six-acre living roof, one of the largest of its kind in the world. This unique ecosystem is one of many environmental innovations included in the expansion.

In 2005, the Province approved an expanded public amenities package that resulted from recommendations during the Project's development approval process. These additional public amenities include more accessible outdoor and plaza space, and added commercial and waterfront developments. The Province also recognized increases in the cost of construction materials such as concrete and steel and it approved an increase in its contribution to $272.5 million from $222.5 million.

The total budget is now $615 million coming from the Government of Canada, $90 million from Tourism Vancouver and some $30 million in commercial revenues from the site itself. Because of its unique downtown waterfront location, the project has tremendous commercial and retail capacity and it is expected that much of the Province's increased contribution can be offset by these additional revenues.

In addition to creating more than 6,000 person years of employment during construction, the project will generate more than 7,000 direct and indirect full-time jobs once it is opened in 2008.

What is the cost of the expansion?

The project is being developed with a projected cost of $615 million. This cost includes an Integration Program which will upgrade and connect the existing facility, Canada Place, with the new facility. (2007 edit: the cost of the centre is now about $870-million, with the province picking up the extra costs. These extra costs include unexpected inflated prices for labour, steel, metals, and concrete as well as an order by the Liberal cabinet's committee to install a further $70-million worth of artwork and furnishings into centre's interior.)

Who is paying for the project?

$495 million of the cost will be shared between the Federal and Provincial governments. The local tourism industry, through Tourism Vancouver, will make a $90 million contribution with revenue generation adding another $30 million, to round of the budget.

How big is the expansion?

335,000 square feet of function space will be added to the existing 133,000 square feet, for a combined total of 468,000 square feet of meeting, exhibition, ballroom and plenary theatre space. The overall facility will have a gross area of 1.1 million square feet, including meeting space, support space, parking, and areas for retail and loading.

How will the two facilities be connected?

The site is immediately adjacent to the existing convention centre at Canada Place, so it can be easily integrated using existing and new connectors utilizing available rights-of-way. The site also offers multiple direct linkages to the downtown core via established corridors.

Who owns the land where the convention centre expansion will be built?

The Province purchased the Coal Harbour property from Marathon Developments Inc. in February 2003 for $27.5 million. The purchase, and the creation of the Vancouver Convention Centre Expansion Project Ltd to manage the project, were announced in February 2003.

What about the float planes?

The float planes leasing property from VCCEP have been relocated on an interim basis during the construction of the project. A new state-of-the-art marina and float plane base is planned to operate on the north side of the new facility.

For more information, visit: http://www.vccep.bc.ca

To date, more than 50 conventions have already been booked for the expanded centre.

[mr.x]

Updates from Oct. 20

[earseyeswideopen]

Red Alert!! Lets look past the pretty pictures above & hear 'the rest of the story' shall we . . . . (Where do you get all those cute pictures from anyway??? Hmmmmm . . . I guess it's all part of your job description maybe . . . .

Where are your updates today, on the Trade & Convention Center 'Boondoggle', Mr. X?????? You are strangely quiet as are the handful of other cheerleaders on this site . . . . Why?

. . . . especially on a day when all of the news media have screaming headlines of the "largest cost overrun in British Columbia history" surrounding an Olympic Venue(CTV) . . . .

that has seen many "missteps" since the light bulb was turned on by the 'circle' of boys controlling the Olympics . . .

And what pray tell are they really talking about?

They are agog after the Provincial Govt.'s Auditor General released his report today on the Trade & Convention Center awash & sinking in red ink - & escalating as we speak, according to the highly esteemed, independent Auditor who operates outside of political influence.

Man the torpedoes, folks! The taxpayers of Canada, not just British Columbians, are drowning & about to go down with the ship, with these massive "sky rocketing" Olympic cost overruns, now at 80% and multiplying by the minute on this white elephant. . . . . . & they are "on the hook" after the Auditor General reveals that we were all fed "a rosier picture" than the truth - called 'lying' under other circumstances. What else have they hidden re: Vanoc & the BC Govt???

Seems the media are also calling the fallout "extremely politically damaging" (CTV who own the television rights to the 2010 Olympics here). Why would they say this?

Here are some clues . . .

Just who are the 'players' at the helm of this Olympic fiasco????? . . . . .

Seems that Vanoc's head honcho: Jack Poole's company: Concert Properties' President, David Podmore is now in charge of this 'baby' . . . .

Gee, didn't Concert Properties want to build a Convention Center a few years ago with a big casino & that previously sank faster than well, the present T & C Center before it's launch???? The same person who was very active with the Bid Corp re: Venue development at the conceptual stage? Any coincidences here?????

Who did David take over from?

Well, brace yourselves - the apple doesn't fall far from the tree with this 'circle' of pals. . . according to the Auditor General, the T & Convention Center Board, "had no expertise" & was headed by none other than the Premier's former Deputy Minister: Ken Dobell, now a high paid consultant who has a desk in the Premier's Office & remains on the Board of the Trade & Convention Center - yik!!! Same fellow who is on the board of Vanoc's Legacies Now Committee & the Board of Vanoc itself . . . . right cheerleaders????

Now for the icing on the cake viewers: We also learn this week that the RCMP, in addition to actively working on conflict of interest evidence surrounding the most expensive Venue: the Callaghan Valley Nordic Venue ( Please refer to the thread on the Scandal re: Vanoc & the Callaghan Valley Nordic Venue) have also been investigating allegations surrounding none other than Ken Dobell!!!

Gee . . . this conjures up all sorts of questions surrounding the Legacy Now trails planned for the Callaghan Valley Nordic Venue . . . . pretty cozy set of players. Is Dobell involved in the other file that the RCMP are handling?????

The RCMP have turned over their report yesterday, to the Criminal Justice Branch of the Attorney General's Ministry on guess who wisely decided to appoint a Special Prosecutor to decide what to do with Mr. Dobell who it seems was deep into lobbying without registering as a Lobbyist . . .

Just the facts - read them & weep - this is just the start.

Can we count on you, Mr. X to keep us posted on this??? I'm not going to hold my breath LOL.

[thatsnotmypuppy]

Um, get f*cked. Thank you bye.

[earseyeswideopen]

Well, yes . . . . you are predictable TNMP if not boring.

We'll have to send you back to etiquette school, my friend, while you are out from under your rock Your illuminating comment speaks for itself . . . .

[earseyeswideopen]

Now, for the rest of the intelligent viewers . . . let's get back to the hot topic at hand . . . . .

B.C. auditor general sounds warning on cost-bloated convention-centre project http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/index2....&Itemid=171 (BC News) Thursday, 25 October 2007, 17:13 PST Scott Sutherland, THE CANADIAN PRESS

VICTORIA - British Columbia's spending watchdog is warning Vancouver's grossly over-budget convention centre expansion project could face more cost escalations before it's finished in 2009.

Further overruns on the iconic convention centre are not out of the question, acting auditor general Errol Price said to a report tabled Thursday in the B.C. legislature.

"Although the latest approved budget is for $883.2 million, there is no guarantee that this will be the final cost," Price said in his 72-page audit of the way the mega-project on Vancouver's waterfront is being managed.

That's because estimates of future costs are based on future events.

Price said the project has been plagued by problems from its outset in 2000 when the original cost estimate was pegged at $495 million.

The federal government came on board with a fixed contribution of $222.5 million and Tourism BC committed to a further $90 million, based on hotel tax revenues.

The province, initially matching Ottawa's contribution, was left in the position of having to approve and fund any budget overruns.

A decision to turn the expanded facility into a showcase for the 2010 Winter Olympics and to use it as the Games' international media centre expanded the scope of the project and put it on an accelerated completion schedule that forced up costs, the report says.

Price said the B.C. Liberal government's failed attempts to find a private partner further saddled taxpayers with unanticipated risks.

In an interview, Price said costs ballooned because actual construction began before designs were finalized.

"Starting the construction before the building design was complete just added to the uncertainty around the costing, I think," he said.

Price also said no one could have predicted the huge effect inflation, initially calculated at about four per cent annually, would have on the project.

"We talk in the report about it being somewhat of a perfect storm in terms of ... the inflation that seemed to take everybody by surprise," he said.

In reality, construction inflation in the early days was running closer to 10 or 11 per cent, the report said, and between 2002 and 2006 the cumulative inflation rate was 47 per cent.

Price also criticized the way progress was being reported to the project's board of directors, saying it was incomplete and presented a "rosier picture than was actually the case."

B.C. Finance Minister Carole Taylor pledged last July the approved budget of $883.2 million would be the "final number," and stuck to that promise Thursday.

Taylor said she has faith in Tourism Minister Stan Hagen, who's responsible for the project, and project chairman David Podmore,who oversees the budget.

"They have come to Treasury Board and assured us they can do it within this budget, and I believe them," she said.

Neither Premier Gordon Campbell nor Hagen was available to comment Thursday.

The Opposition used Price's report to snipe at the project.

"This project was mismanaged by minister after minister after minister after minister," complained NDP leader Carole James.

"Four hundred million dollars over budget and this government still refuses to hold anyone accountable."

The B.C. arm of the Canadian Taxpayers' Federation was also critical of the way the entire project has been handled

"I think it's a wake-up call for taxpayers to realize that governments are just not good project managers," Maureen Bader, the organization's provincial director, said in a release.

Bader said the cap on federal contributions to the project means B.C. taxpayers are on the hook for any further overrun.

The pressure to produce a nicer venue for the Olympics is partly responsible for the cost increase, she said.

"But the other very important part is the whole project has been rushed like mad to be ready in time for the Olympics," said Bader. "Absolutely the Olympics is an important factor as to why this particular project has had such serious cost overruns."

A spokesman for the Vancouver Olympic Organizing Committee deferred comment to the B.C. government. The convention-centre expansion is not part of the Games' capital budget.

Bader called the huge cost overruns "completely outrageous." . . . . . . . .

[Sir Rols]

@earseyeswideopen

Do you think you could get a less nausiatingly sickly sweet avatar and signature? It turns me off reading the posts.

[thatsnotmypuppy]

Now, for the rest of the intelligent viewers . . . let's get back to the hot topic at hand . . . . .

B.C. auditor general sounds warning on cost-bloated convention-centre project http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/index2....&Itemid=171 (BC News) Thursday, 25 October 2007, 17:13 PST Scott Sutherland, THE CANADIAN PRESS

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That's because estimates of future costs are bI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEased on future events.

Price said I AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEthe project I AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEhas been plagued by problems from its outset in 2000 when the original cost estimate was pegged at $495 million.I AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFE

The federal government came on board with a fixI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEed contribution of $222.5 million and Tourism BC committed to a further $90I AM BORING AND NEED A LIFE million, based on hotel tax revenues.I AM BORING AND NEED A LIFE

The province, initially matching OttawaI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFE's contribution, was left in the position of having to approve and fund any budget overruns.I AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFE

A decision to turn the expanded facility into a showcase for the 2010 Winter Olympics and to use it as the Games' international media centre expanded the scope of the project andI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFE put it on an accelerated cI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEompletion schedule that forced up cosI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEts, the report says.

Price said the B.C. LiberI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEal government's failed attempts to find a private partner further saddled taxpayers I AM BORING AND NEED A LIFE with unanticipated risks.

In an interview, Price said cosI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEts ballooned because actual construction began before designs were finalized.

"Starting the construction befoI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEre the building design was complete just added to the uncertainty around the costing, I think," he said.

Price also said no one could have predicted the huge effect inI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEflation, initially calculated at about four per cent annuallI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEy, would have on the project.

"We talk in the report about it being somewhat of a perfect storm in terms of ... the inflation that seemed to take I AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEeverybody by surprise," he said.

In reality, construction I AM BORING AND NEED A LIFE inflation in the early days was running closer to 10 or 11 per cent, the report said, and I AM BORING AND NEED A LIFE between 2002 and 2006 the cumulative inflation raI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEte was 47 per cent.

Price also criticized I AM BORING AND NEED A LIFE the way progress was being reported to the project's board of directors, saying it was I AM BORING AND NEED A LIFE incomplete and presented a "rosier picture than I AM BORING AND NEED A LIFE was actually the case."

B.C. Finance Minister Carole Taylor pleI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEdged last I AM BORING AND NEED A LIFE July the approved budget of $883.2 million would be the "final number," and stuck to that promise ThursdayI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFE.

Taylor said she has faithI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFE in Tourism Minister Stan Hagen, who's resI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEponsible for the project, and project chairman David I AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEPodmore,who oversees the budget.

"They have come to TreasuryI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFE Board and assured us they can do it within this I AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEbudget, and I believe them," she said.

Neither Premier Gordon Campbell norI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFE Hagen was available to comment Thursday.

The OppositiI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEon used Price's report to snipe at the project.

"This project was mismanagedI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFE by minister after minister after minister after minI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEister," complained NDP leader Carole James.

"Four hundred million dollarI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEs over budget and this government still refuses to hold anyone acI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEcountable."

The B.C. arm of the CanadianI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFE Taxpayers' Federation was also critical of theI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFE way the entire project has been handled

"I think it's a wake-up caI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEll for taxpayers to realize that governments are juI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEst not good project managers," Maureen Bader, the organization's provincial director, said in a release.

Bader said the cap on federal I AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEcontributions to the project means B.C. taxpayers are on the hook forI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFE any further overrun.

The pressure to produce I AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEa nicer venue for the Olympics is partly reI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEsponsible for the cost increase, she said.

"But the oI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEther very important part is the wholeI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFE project has been rushed liI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEke mad to be ready in time for the Olympics," said Bader. "Absolutely the Olympics is an important fI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEactor as to why this particular project has had such serious cost overruns."

A spokesmI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEan for the Vancouver Olympic Organizing Committee deferred comment to the B.C. governmeI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEnt. The convention-centre expansion is not part of the Games' cI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEapital budget.

Bader cI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEI AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEalled the huge cost overruns "completely I AM BORING AND NEED A LIFEoutrageous." . . . . . . . .

Move back to Toronto, rummy!

Edited October 26, 2007 by thatsnotmypuppy

[mr.x]

The Auditor General has simply re-iterated everything we've known for the past year. This has already been reported and everyone already knows the cost has already ballooned to nearly $900 million....I even posted it on my first post, before this "news" was announced.

The media is simply putting a spin on it since it's another slow news day, and the opposition party is using it against the gov't - even though they have a few skeletons of their own, namely the fast ferries.

But what capital projects, both private and public, haven't seen cost increases due to unexpected inflated prices in labour and materials? The VANOC Olympic venue program saw a $110 million increase due to unexpected costs because of those exact market fluctuations. The $280 million Shangri-la hotel project is now $400 million due to the exact same reasons, and adjacent is the new Ritz Carlton hotel - originally pegged at $300 million and now $500 million. The new Canada Line was originally budgeted at $1.7 billion, but that has since gone to $2 billion - however, the private sector/contractor is responsible for paying all overruns, which have so far accumulated to $300 million (there have been no more overruns since because they have cut back on the design of the Canada Line). These are just a few of dozens of examples I know about.

Reasons for these huge overruns are:

1) Construction inflation costs have almost tripled what was expected. The booming condo industry and numerous public projects have caused a severe shortage in skilled labour. Developers have raised salaries significantly to attract workers, and have even attempted to import workers at a much higher cost. These projects are also draining away materials - particularly concrete and steel - tripling prices compared to 2002. This can also be blamed on the booming Chinese market, which is absorbing much of B.C.'s materials for its own mainland projects. This is the main reason for the rising costs.

2) Pilings on the water and the platform were built before the design was completed.

3) A special crane that was required for construction arrived three months late. This was the only crane of its kind available in North America.

4) Unexpected findings on the site of the facility. They have found many boulders and an old boat house on the bottom of the site. It had to be removed before construction commenced.

5) Fast-track construction to meet the 2010 Olympic Games target.

6) A green project. The cost of designing the centre with a green/grass roof has increased costs to the design.

In the end, this will be a long lasting facility that will put Vancouver on the map in the convention and trade show business. With Canada Place, it will be the Hong Kong Convention Centre of Canada and the West Coast of North America. This centre will be part of the urban fabric of Vancouver, and a landmark, for many years to come.

Already, more than 50 conventions have been booked for the new centre - accumulating to more than $1 billion in economic spinoffs.

[agenthuggles/agentr]

The Auditor General has simply re-iterated everything we've known for the past year. This has already been reported and everyone already knows the cost has already ballooned to nearly $900 million....I even posted it on my first post, before this "news" was announced.

The media is simply putting a spin on it since it's another slow news day, and the opposition party is using it against the gov't - even though they have a few skeletons of their own, namely the fast ferries.

But what capital projects, both private and public, haven't seen cost increases due to unexpected inflated prices in labour and materials? The VANOC Olympic venue program saw a $110 million increase due to unexpected costs because of those exact market fluctuations. The $280 million Shangri-la hotel project is now $400 million due to the exact same reasons, and adjacent is the new Ritz Carlton hotel - originally pegged at $300 million and now $500 million. The new Canada Line was originally budgeted at $1.7 billion, but that has since gone to $2 billion - however, the private sector/contractor is responsible for paying all overruns, which have so far accumulated to $300 million (there have been no more overruns since because they have cut back on the design of the Canada Line). These are just a few of dozens of examples I know about.

Reasons for these huge overruns are:

1) Construction inflation costs have almost tripled what was expected. The booming condo industry and numerous public projects have caused a severe shortage in skilled labour. Developers have raised salaries significantly to attract workers, and have even attempted to import workers at a much higher cost. These projects are also draining away materials - particularly concrete and steel - tripling prices compared to 2002. This can also be blamed on the booming Chinese market, which is absorbing much of B.C.'s materials for its own mainland projects. This is the main reason for the rising costs.

2) Pilings on the water and the platform were built before the design was completed.

3) A special crane that was required for construction arrived three months late. This was the only crane of its kind available in North America.

4) Unexpected findings on the site of the facility. They have found many boulders and an old boat house on the bottom of the site. It had to be removed before construction commenced.

5) Fast-track construction to meet the 2010 Olympic Games target.

6) A green project. The cost of designing the centre with a green/grass roof has increased costs to the design.

In the end, this will be a long lasting facility that will put Vancouver on the map in the convention and trade show business. With Canada Place, it will be the Hong Kong Convention Centre of Canada and the West Coast of North America. This centre will be part of the urban fabric of Vancouver, and a landmark, for many years to come.

Already, more than 50 conventions have been booked for the new centre - accumulating to more than $1 billion in economic spinoffs.

THE BOTTOM LINE FOLKS IS " OUR TAXES FOR EVER AND EVER "" GOING UP AND UP.. Doesn't bother Mr X, as he lives in fantasy land.. Buddy X you must be on their pay roll, I AM NOT.....

so let's get real here....it is costing us .........

[agenthuggles/agentr]

Now, for the rest of the intelligent viewers . . . let's get back to the hot topic at hand . . . . .

B.C. auditor general sounds warning on cost-bloated convention-centre project http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/index2....&Itemid=171 (BC News) Thursday, 25 October 2007, 17:13 PST Scott Sutherland, THE CANADIAN PRESS

VICTORIA - British Columbia's spending watchdog is warning Vancouver's grossly over-budget convention centre expansion project could face more cost escalations before it's finished in 2009.

Further overruns on the iconic convention centre are not out of the question, acting auditor general Errol Price said to a report tabled Thursday in the B.C. legislature.

"Although the latest approved budget is for $883.2 million, there is no guarantee that this will be the final cost," Price said in his 72-page audit of the way the mega-project on Vancouver's waterfront is being managed.

That's because estimates of future costs are based on future events.

Price said the project has been plagued by problems from its outset in 2000 when the original cost estimate was pegged at $495 million.

The federal government came on board with a fixed contribution of $222.5 million and Tourism BC committed to a further $90 million, based on hotel tax revenues.

The province, initially matching Ottawa's contribution, was left in the position of having to approve and fund any budget overruns.

A decision to turn the expanded facility into a showcase for the 2010 Winter Olympics and to use it as the Games' international media centre expanded the scope of the project and put it on an accelerated completion schedule that forced up costs, the report says.

Price said the B.C. Liberal government's failed attempts to find a private partner further saddled taxpayers with unanticipated risks.

In an interview, Price said costs ballooned because actual construction began before designs were finalized.

"Starting the construction before the building design was complete just added to the uncertainty around the costing, I think," he said.

Price also said no one could have predicted the huge effect inflation, initially calculated at about four per cent annually, would have on the project.

"We talk in the report about it being somewhat of a perfect storm in terms of ... the inflation that seemed to take everybody by surprise," he said.

In reality, construction inflation in the early days was running closer to 10 or 11 per cent, the report said, and between 2002 and 2006 the cumulative inflation rate was 47 per cent.

Price also criticized the way progress was being reported to the project's board of directors, saying it was incomplete and presented a "rosier picture than was actually the case."

B.C. Finance Minister Carole Taylor pledged last July the approved budget of $883.2 million would be the "final number," and stuck to that promise Thursday.

Taylor said she has faith in Tourism Minister Stan Hagen, who's responsible for the project, and project chairman David Podmore,who oversees the budget.

"They have come to Treasury Board and assured us they can do it within this budget, and I believe them," she said.

Neither Premier Gordon Campbell nor Hagen was available to comment Thursday.

The Opposition used Price's report to snipe at the project.

"This project was mismanaged by minister after minister after minister after minister," complained NDP leader Carole James.

"Four hundred million dollars over budget and this government still refuses to hold anyone accountable."

The B.C. arm of the Canadian Taxpayers' Federation was also critical of the way the entire project has been handled

"I think it's a wake-up call for taxpayers to realize that governments are just not good project managers," Maureen Bader, the organization's provincial director, said in a release.

Bader said the cap on federal contributions to the project means B.C. taxpayers are on the hook for any further overrun.

The pressure to produce a nicer venue for the Olympics is partly responsible for the cost increase, she said.

"But the other very important part is the whole project has been rushed like mad to be ready in time for the Olympics," said Bader. "Absolutely the Olympics is an important factor as to why this particular project has had such serious cost overruns."

:

A spokesman for the Vancouver Olympic Organizing Committee deferred comment to the B.C. government. The convention-centre expansion is not part of the Games' capital budget.

Bader called the huge cost overruns "completely outrageous." . . . . . . . .

THANK YOU FOR PUTTING THIS ALL ON...

BY THE WAY DO LIKE YOUR PROFILE,ADDS TO THIS DULL OTHERS PROTRAY.

BY WHAT I AM READING FROM OTHERS THEY ARE NOT PAYING TAXES..

KEEP US INFORMED, EYESAND EARSWIDEOPEN. I FOR ONE DO NOT HAVE TIME TO LOOK UP AND FOLLOW AND I APPRECIATE THIS .... ONE WONDERS IF THE OTHERS REALLY DON'T CARE...WHERE THE MONEY COMES FROM,...TIME TO STOP STOP...BRING ALL TO A HALT !!!!

[Kenadian]

You have to realize that this forum is populated with people that are fans of the Olympic Games. And fans generally see the positive aspects in or are cheerleaders for their pet topic.

While the two of you appear to have a beef with the 2010 Olympics - and there are others out there like you - your message isn't hitting the right audience. This is a fan site. Your posts only get views because you've stirred something up and then your own statements and posts are more sensationalized than the actual story.

Certainly, ideas and information exchanges are welcomed in this forum, but don't expect to sway action against the Olympics in a forum dedicated to Olympic fans.

Hope this clears up a few things for you and that the two of you find some sort of solace in your crusade against the BC government.

Edited October 26, 2007 by Kendegra

[earseyeswideopen]

THANK YOU FOR PUTTING THIS ALL ON...

BY THE WAY DO LIKE YOUR PROFILE,ADDS TO THIS DULL OTHERS PORTRAY.

BY WHAT I AM READING FROM OTHERS THEY ARE NOT PAYING TAXES..

KEEP US INFORMED, EYESAND EARSWIDEOPEN. I FOR ONE DO NOT HAVE TIME TO LOOK UP AND FOLLOW AND I APPRECIATE THIS .... ONE WONDERS IF THE OTHERS REALLY DON'T CARE...WHERE THE MONEY COMES FROM,...TIME TO STOP STOP...BRING ALL TO A HALT !!!!

Thanks for taking the time to absorb the material I have posted for everyone's interest. It sounds as though you are into investigative work from your posts . . . .???. . . certainly that you have a good understanding of ethics & the justice system. I appreciate reading your measured responses, agenthuggles without rose colored glasses, like the few 'regulars' choose to screen out reality.

You have to realize that this forum is populated with people that are fans of the Olympic Games. And fans generally see the positive aspects in or are cheerleaders for their pet topic.

Kendegra, I appreciate your post hoping it "clears things up". I understand your perspective, that you are %100 behind the Olympics & have no time for anything outside of the positives. This is where we agree to disagree. Please consider the following:

How do you know that all of the people visiting this site are dyed in the wool "fans" of the Olympics & don't want to read outside the cheerleading? What I have noticed is that there are only about 5 regular posters - that is not many out of the 1,000s visiting this site. Life is complex these days. I do not understand why anyone would NOT want to hear & weigh all aspects to the Olympics where these issues profoundly affect everyone.

What does a "fan" mean to you? Firstly, there is a difference between the issue of the 'Olympics' & WHO is pulling the strings of the Olympic in each host city - this is a whole other kettle of fish.

It is great to be a fan, but most people these days understand that the Olympics is not just a sporting event where one cheers on the athletes - the athletes are lost in the process until the actual 'games' arrive - they should be receiving more help - without them, the corporate profits would be zilch - that corporate involvement/vested interests must be looked at, too.

While the two of you appear to have a beef with the 2010 Olympics - and there are others out there like you - your message isn't hitting the right audience. This is a fan site. Your posts only get views because you've stirred something up and then your own statements and posts are more sensationalized than the actual story.

I suggest that a lot of people want to read all of the issues - especially, where there is blatant conflict of interest, massive cost overruns etc. - because it is the taxpayers moo-la being used & our two Governments are deep into the string pulling with a very close knit group of pals in this circle. Yes, the truth HAS "stirred something up" on the Vanoc Scandal re: the Callaghan Valley Nordic Venue & here where international viewers can read beyond the 'box of chocolates' that is usually posted by the cheerleaders. The numbers immediately start to multiply.

There is nothing sensationalized about what I have posted. I post from the facts brought out by the media & what I have found on the internet. The information IS shocking because it has been covered up until now.

I suggest that this IS the right audience because many people, like myself, find this site through Google just because it IS dealing with the Olympics & there are many opinions surrounding this event; many angles, not just what is held by the 5 regular cheerleaders on this site - right??? The truth often does make people feel uncomfortable when it challenges our view of the world - but that doesn't mean that factual information should be ignored.

Certainly, ideas and information exchanges are welcomed in this forum, but don't expect to sway action against the Olympics in a forum dedicated to Olympic fans.

Hope this clears up a few things for you and that the two of you find some sort of solace in your crusade against the BC government.

It has nothing to do with me or anyone else "trying to sway action against the Olympics"; nothing to do with having a "beef about the Olympics" . . .

It has nothing to do with "a crusade against the BC Govt It is about making sure that we hear the truth & then allowing everyone to make up their minds from a broader perspective.

It's all about not be a lemming in life & blindly heading off the cliff without questioning the obvious when issues arise. The recent Headline news on the T & C Center is stunning. Things are not black & white & simplistic in our world - questioning & being open to hearing other points of view is healthy.

Yes, my posts are detailed including your question related to the RCMP investigation process - often the devil is in the details - that is how solutions are found & questions are answered.

No one is forcing anyone to read them. I don't have a fight with any of you group of 5. Believe me, my purpose for posting is not with a focus on you five & quite honestly, it is a little self serving for you to think that If you don't want to read outside your view of the issues - please don't read our posts deal outside the box & cause the brain cells to click.

The point is: you & the four other regular commenter's have NOT welcomed any exchange of ideas/information - instead there has been an attack on & a sluffing off of the factual information with some glib reply or rude curse. What does that bring to the discussion, my friend??? Not once have the little group actually commented on the issues raised - THAT becomes tedious!

The article below reflects a perfect example of how the RCMP investigations, Special Prosecutors etc. work, as you questioned previously; all of which I did outline to you previously.

This case IS intriguing & VERY relevant to this Olympic forum as Ken Dobell headed up the Trade & Convention Centre, sits on Vanoc's Board, is a Dir. of Legacies Now under Vanoc, was the Premier's Deputy Minister with a finger in all pies . . . now sitting in the Premier's Office as a high paid consultant while there are serious concerns surrounding his conduct - what a tangled web they weave

Again, the devil is in details & just WHO is involved in these scandals surrounding Vanoc & the BC Govt.

Please don't read the article's posted if you choose to see no evil, discuss no evil & connect the dots. . . . but here are the facts:

Dobell to step aside while prosecutor decides his fate Chad SkeltonVancouver Sun

Friday, October 26, 2007

Premier Gordon Campbell's senior adviser Ken Dobell has announced he will step aside from his work for the province on softwood lumber while a special prosecutor decides whether or not he should be prosecuted for violating the province's lobbying rules.

"Given this investigation, Mr. Dobell wishes to step down from his work for the Provincial Government with respect to softwood lumber," Dobell's lawyer George Macintosh wrote in a news release today.

"He believes this is the right thing to do while [the special prosecutor] conducts his investigation."

On Thursday, B.C.'s criminal justice branch announced it has appointed senior Vancouver lawyer Terrence Robertson to review the RCMP's report on Dobell's activities and decide whether or not to lay charges.

If Dobell is charged, Robertson will also prosecute the case.

Special prosecutors are appointed in cases where there could be a real or perceived conflict of interest, such as those involving politicians.

It its release Thursday, the criminal justice branch stated it thought a special prosecutor ws warranted in Dobell's case because of his "past working relationship with the provincial government."

Dobell came under fire last spring when it was discovered he had been lobbying the province on behalf of the City of Vancouver, seeking funds for housing and cultural projects, without being registered.

Under B.C.'s Lobbyists Registration Act, lobbyists must register within 10 days, but Dobell took six months to do so.

Dobell is a former deputy minister with a desk in the premier's office complex in Vancouver, where he serves as a $250-an-hour special adviser.

After much pushing by the NDP, privacy and information commissioner David Loukidelis agreed to review Dobell's actions.

In a decision last May, Loukidelis found Dobell had breached the rules, but as his work for the city was well known he didn't believe Dobell's delay in registering was a deliberate effort to hide his activities.

Lobbyists can be fined up to $25,000 for violating the act, although no one has been fined since the registry was created in 2002. Over the years, Dobell has advised the B.C. government on a number of matters, including the Winter Olympics, Pacific Gateway Project and the Canada Line.

But in a brief phone interview Friday, Macintosh said that, as far as he knows, softwood lumber is the only matter on which Dobell recently advised the province.

"To the best of my knowledge and belief, it's just lumber," said Macintosh.

[Kenadian]

"What I have noticed is that there are only about 5 regular posters - that is not many out of the 1,000s visiting this site."

I don't have time to read all of what you posted, but you do realize that every time someone - anyone! - views this thread, that it gets recorded as a view to the thread. If a thread has 1000 views, it doesn't mean 1000 different people viewed it. It just means that it was viewed 1000 times. And usually that means it is revisited by the people in the discussion. Much of that number is repeat visitors from a few GamesBids regulars.

Also, just because something is printed in a paper or blog, does not make it true or factual. Why not wait until the investigation is through before casting judgement?

I'm sorry that you and your mother didn't get the land you felt you deserve and that you can't give up this 20 year fight, but maybe it would be better to focus your engergies on something more productive?

All the best.

[Guardian]

I hope that the Convention Centre will be done before the IOC comes for a different reason. This time, it is the World Conference on Sport and the Environment for 2009. I do not know when the IOC and/or the UNEP (United Nations Environment Program) chose Vancouver to host their next conference, but it is now confirmed, by this IOC article.

Link: IOC: Success Stories, Partnerships and Future Action

Quote from the article: "And in spring 2009, at the next World Conference on Sport and the Environment in Vancouver, it will be time to review what has "grown green" since the Beijing conference."

Edited October 31, 2007 by Guardian

[mr.x]

^ interesting. didn't we just hold a UN conference on sustainability? thanks for that link.

It'll be a photo finish to finish the convention centre expansion for that conference next year. The centre is still scheduled to be open by "early 2009". Could mean anytime from January to April 2009.

Still, Canada Place - which is the existing convention centre - will do fine in hosting the event, like the 2005 UN conference.

[Guardian]

^ interesting. didn't we just hold a UN conference on sustainability? thanks for that link.

It'll be a photo finish to finish the convention centre expansion for that conference next year. The centre is still scheduled to be open by "early 2009". Could mean anytime from January to April 2009.

Still, Canada Place - which is the existing convention centre - will do fine in hosting the event, like the 2005 UN conference.

I think the Vancouver conference will be the first major one for the new convention center. That is, if the project is done on time. Spring, officially is like from March to June. So, I think it is possible.

Edited October 31, 2007 by Guardian

[earseyeswideopen]

I don't have time to read all of what you posted, but you do realize that every time someone - anyone! - views this thread, that it gets recorded as a view to the thread. If a thread has 1000 views, it doesn't mean 1000 different people viewed it. It just means that it was viewed 1000 times. And usually that means it is revisited by the people in the discussion. Much of that number is repeat visitors from a few GamesBids regulars.

Also, just because something is printed in a paper or blog, does not make it true or factual. Why not wait until the investigation is through before casting judgement?

. . . . & sometimes what is printed is the harsh truth, my friend. The facts that have surfaced to date, are alarming. But one has to have one's eyes & ears open to grasp it.

I expected a reasoned response but . . . LOL, the usual dodging & sidestepping pattern which has become tedious even for this old guy - Old habits die hard, Kendegra . . me thinks that you just don't want to read or respond to anything outside of the poms poms in front of your eyes as that might cause big time dissonance . . . .

Your silly splitting of the hairs re: the viewers is just that - kind of scrapping the barrel? I would suggest your time would be better spent questioning the facts & thinking without the rose colored glasses, just for once. They are clearly blinding your vision of reality. You can lead horse to water but you can't make him drink . . . .

This may come as a shock to you & the couple of other clones on this site . . . . (said with tongue firmly planted in cheek) . . . somehow I believe the Auditor General on this one over the spin spewed by the five of you living in la la land - I've heard he is pretty good with his investigative skills re: misconduct surrounding financial handling of taxpayers $$$$$$$.

Your brain cells must be begging for fresh facts let alone, common sense Maybe it's time to change the worn out dance routine.

I'm sorry that you and your mother didn't get the land you felt you deserve and that you can't give up this 20 year fight, but maybe it would be better to focus your energies on something more productive?

All the best.

You will not win the 'Psychic of the Year award, 'Johnny Furlong' on this one LOL. . . however, we finally have something to agree on with agenthuggles: I too wish them "All the best". I read, I reason & I get it. Power on people . . .

Perhaps if there was more persistence like their "20 year fight" for the truth, scandals such as the Trade & Convention would not be exploding & taxpayers upchucking over all of these RCMP investigations, Special Prosecutors, Auditor General scathing reports on massive cost overruns & coverups . . . .. . all surrounding the Vanoc 'family'.

[earseyeswideopen]

On with the rest of the story: Seems Mike Smyth sees the 'Devil is in the details' - take note, group of 5:

Taxpayers merit better explanationMinister blames mess on missing details Michael SmythThe Province

Tuesday, October 30, 2007

A h, let the blame game begin. Now that Gordon Campbell's convention-centre megaproject has skyrocketed nearly $400 million over budget, it was only a matter of time before the obligatory scapegoats were identified.

The only surprise yesterday was that it was one of Campbell's closest friends and confidants who got the rock in his Halloween bag.

Ken Dobell, Campbell's $250-an-hour "special adviser," had been the premier's choice as chairman of the convention-centre project board.

But Dobell was dumped last April while the project's finances were sliding off the rails. Originally priced at $495 million just four years ago, the budget for the half-built convention centre now stands at $883 million and could soar even higher.

Tourism Minister Stan Hagen, the cabinet point-man on the convention centre, said yesterday he wasn't happy with the non-answers he was getting from Dobell on the megaproject's ballooning budget.

Hagen said he was preparing to go to the Treasury Board earlier this year to beg for more money for the project and he wanted to know exactly how much the facility was going to cost.

"I was looking for answers and I wasn't getting them," Hagen said.

"I said, 'I'm only going to Treasury Board once, so I want the final number.' And I didn't get it."

It was at that point, Hagen said, that he decided to replace Dobell with respected private-sector real-estate developer David Podmore.

Another trusted Liberal government insider -- current Insurance Corp. of B.C. president Paul Taylor -- was also dropped from the convention-centre board.

Taylor had chaired the megaproject's audit committee.

I asked Hagen why these key board members wouldn't tell him how much the convention centre was going to cost.

"I don't think they were withholding information -- they just didn't have it," he said.

Well, who was withholding the information from them, then? "I don't know," came the blunt reply.

He did accept some blame himself, however.

"I accept blame on behalf of the government. Should we have done things differently? Probably, yes."

All in all, not a very convincing performance from the minister. Especially when you consider the government had internal estimates as early as May 2003 that the budget was in jeopardy, but kept telling the public everything was fine.

With so much of their hard-earned money swirling down the drain, taxpayers deserve a better explanation.

msmyth@direct.ca

© The Vancouver Province 2007

[earseyeswideopen]

The buck stops with Campbell on ramrodded convention centre job Vaughn PalmerVancouver Sun

Saturday, October 27, 2007

VICTORIA - Premier Gordon Campbell had a direct hand in the Vancouver convention centre project from the outset.

He, more than anyone else, decided that the expanded convention centre, like the highway to Whistler and the rapid transit line to the airport, would be part of the supporting infrastructure for hosting the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver.

He decided it needed to be ready well ahead of 2010, forcing the project onto a fast track that saw construction begin before plans were complete.

When the province couldn't find a private sector builder dumb enough to assume the risk in a public-private partnership, Campbell decided that government would go it alone.

When Ottawa wisely insisted on capping its contribution to this overrun-waiting-to-happen, the premier blithely committed the province to absorb every penny of the additional cost.

Campbell wanted it built the way he wanted everything else done, namely his way. So, in February 2003, the premier installed his deputy minister, Ken Dobell, as chair of the convention centre expansion project board and kept him at the helm for four years.

Four years of budget overruns and dubious decision-making, according to this week's devastating report from the office of the auditor-general.

Not until this past spring -- with the project hundreds of millions of dollars over budget -- did the government appoint developer David Podmore ("he knows how to build big projects") to try to get things under control.

Until then, the central role of the premier's No. 2 was underscored in the project service plans, released annually as part of the government accountability framework. "I am accountable for the contents of this plan," board chair Dobell would avow, in the written testimonial that accompanied each year's update of the plan.

"All significant assumptions, policy decisions and identified risks have been considered in preparing this plan," the statements continued. "I am accountable for delivering on the service plan and for measuring and reporting actual performance."

Contents. Assumptions. Decisions. Risks. Deliverables. Measuring. Reporting. Dobell was accountable on all those points.

But the buck didn't really stop with him. Dobell, a consummate public servant, was the premier's go-to guy. Campbell relied on him, more than anyone else, to get things done, the way he wanted them done, when he wanted them done.

If the project was being ramrodded to ensure it was ready for the 2010 Olympics, it was because Campbell wanted it that way.

If the result was a budget-busting increase in costs . . . well, it is inconceivable that Dobell would not have kept Campbell in the loop every step of the way.

The auditor-general complained, in one of the most damning passages of his report, that "from the beginning of the project the board lacked a member with the appropriate expertise for a project of this specialized nature."

Campbell wouldn't have seen the need. He had Dobell. (Other board members included a defeated Liberal candidate and the former president of the party. Choice.)

The Dobell-to-Campbell connection needs to be underscored. As the Liberals run for cover in the wake of the auditor-general's report, they will do everything they can to shift the blame away from Campbell.

Other cabinet ministers. Other deputy ministers. Project managers. Consultants. Inflation. Evil spirits. Any culprit will do, just as long as the trail doesn't lead back to the premier's office.

But that is also why one of the most revealing events in the history of this fiasco was the sod-turning on Nov. 8, 2004.

For the premier himself took charge of the announcement and delivered the words he surely wishes now that he could take back: "There are contingencies built into the project and it's going to be run professionally. This will be built on time and on budget . . . Count on it."

Wrong on three counts.

The budget has been revised half a dozen times since Campbell spoke those words.

Construction is almost a year behind schedule. As for "run professionally," the auditor-general's report supplies a number of reasons for doubting that claim.

Still, Campbell said it. And it was entirely characteristic for him to be there, taking the spotlight. Every minister in government has been big-footed by the premier at events large and small.

In their private moments, some Liberals may take a certain satisfaction in the prospect that the most damaging quote in this affair was supplied by the guy who insists on being front and centre in everything.

But that's the downside of being a hands-on premier. When something goes wrong, your fingerprints are all over it.

vpalmer@direct.ca

© The Vancouver Sun 2007

[fisher]

Wow... you actually found some articles to post, how unusual.

I think you really need to take some communication classes because you make NO point in your rants. It may make sense in your head, but to any of us, we simply scan read to see if you make a point (which you don't - you more or less just trail off)

The convention centre has ballooned drastically, and it is unfortunate that it happened. Maybe if it was one of those 3P projects it wouldn't have happened. Unlike the Canada Line which is on budget. However the need to expand the existing infrastructure was necessary and without the government involving itself, it would likely not have happened. It's disappointing that the cost overruns are overshadowing a beautiful facility (yes some have debated it's architectural marvel)

However you have accused all of us with a hidden agenda for our support of the games, which is quite insulting. I think it's time you got down off your pedestal that you preach to us from and actually spoke to us on a peer to peer level. This "I know you are but what am I" attitude really needs to stop. You have made no attempts to understand our position other then it's against yours. You make every attack a personal one.

For someone that apparantly speaks 'the truth' you are exteremly hypocritical. You and you alone damaged your credibility from the beginning and I just shake my head and laugh. You need to be alot more honourable with your intentions then the parties that you accuse of such henious crimes.

So what's next? Has the tooth fairy been taking bribes too? Maybe Santa has a beard because he's hiding something. Isn't it funny that the Easter Bunny has all those eggs when it doesn't even lay eggs. Does the Easter Bunny use slave chicken labour that it exploits? Can someone please think about the chickens... those poor chickens. Come on Henny Penny, what's falling from the sky today?

[thatsnotmypuppy]

So what's next? Has the tooth fairy been taking bribes too? Maybe Santa has a beard because he's hiding something. Isn't it funny that the Easter Bunny has all those eggs when it doesn't even lay eggs. Does the Easter Bunny use slave chicken labour that it exploits? Can someone please think about the chickens... those poor chickens. Come on Henny Penny, what's falling from the sky today?

I know this is a pointless post - but you win the prize for best slapdown of the day/hour!

[mr.x]

Unlike the Canada Line which is on budget. However the need to expand the existing infrastructure was necessary and without the government involving itself, it would likely not have happened.

Well, with regards to the Canada Line the only reason why the have been able to stay with the $2 billion budget for the last two years is because the private sector, SNC-Lavalin, has been cutting the scope of the project design since they signed on the original $1.7 billion budget and agreed to cover all construction cost overruns - which have amounted to $300 million.

There isn't much architectural merit to the Canada Line station designs (unlike the Millennium Line stations) and station platforms are only 40-metres long and expandable to 50-metres in the future, but are not expandable beyond the 50-metres. Compare that to SkyTrain's 80-metre platforms expandable to 100-metres. Not to mention, the last 600-metres of the line in the two Richmond and YVR end spurs are single-tracked from the second last stations to the terminus stations. There's a very limited expandable capacity on the Canada Line.

The Canada Line is going to be an extremely congested and crowded rapid transit line. Even though it was advertised to serve the long-term needs of the region, it probably will only last for 20 years before we need to find other solutions.

If VCECP had been told to stay within its original $495-million budget for the convention centre, design of the new facility might have been scaled back so much it would look like a giant windowless warehouse.

[fisher]

Thanks TNMP > It's just getting so ridiculous listening to the same banter over & over again.

Yes, the Canada Line has been scaled back, however with more stations planned capacity can be added there too. Although you say that they can't be expanded beyond 50 metres, I can't believe with most of the stations underground that there isn't a way to expand them. It just may not be as easy as if it had been preplanned...

I think that the Richmond part of the line is the most likely to become overcrowded. The Vancouver stations will be served by both trains so capacity will always be greater there, however as you said about the design restrictions that I believe Richmond City Council requested to minimize the skytrain 'imprint' could hinder expansion to the line. Especially the way Richmond really seems to be pushing development in the core. I almost fell off my chair when I saw the plans for Lansdowne.

[mr.x]

Thanks TNMP > It's just getting so ridiculous listening to the same banter over & over again.

Yes, the Canada Line has been scaled back, however with more stations planned capacity can be added there too. Although you say that they can't be expanded beyond 50 metres, I can't believe with most of the stations underground that there isn't a way to expand them. It just may not be as easy as if it had been preplanned...

I think that the Richmond part of the line is the most likely to become overcrowded. The Vancouver stations will be served by both trains so capacity will always be greater there, however as you said about the design restrictions that I believe Richmond City Council requested to minimize the skytrain 'imprint' could hinder expansion to the line. Especially the way Richmond really seems to be pushing development in the core. I almost fell off my chair when I saw the plans for Lansdowne.

Well, there are different grade shifts throughout the underground portion of the line and there are expensive high powered tunnel fans located on the other side of the walls on each end of the stations. Major platform length extensions could possibly mean the stations would have to be opened up again and completely rebuilt at a very high cost. Unlike the Canada Line, most underground metros account for future capacity and allow significant expandable area for the platforms.

Have you seen the plans for expanding Aberdeen Centre for more retail and a hotel? It's being designed by Bing Thom and will be integrated with Aberdeen Station with both platform and concourse level entries into the station from the mall.

Construction on the mall/hotel expansion is happening right now and should be completed in time for the opening of the Canada Line.

BTW, nice first post....i'm getting quite tired of hearing the same nonsense over and over again as well...