Jump to content

Madrid - Over Ambitious?


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 110
  • Created
  • Last Reply
In 2016, Gallardón may be Prime Minister and not the mayor... <_<

well, mikel, that's neither here nor there. Pokemon could be the Prime Minister of Japan then; Miss Brazil could be the president of Brazil in 2016; Sarah Palin could be president of the US then.... :blink: The topic is about now; not 8 years from now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

well, mikel, that's neither here nor there. Pokemon could be the Prime Minister of Japan then; Miss Brazil could be the president of Brazil in 2016; Sarah Palin could be president of the US then.... :blink: The topic is about now; not 8 years from now.

I was answering darkover who was critizising Madrid's Mayor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...
/\ /\ well, as mayor he represents his city -- and all its official actions. So same thing. U're splitting hairs.

For sure... Spain is a democracy, so the mayor represents the people of Madrid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Madrid winning would be the absolute shocker of the century. It is not that they don't have huge abilities to host which they do . It is that Back to Back European Summer Olympics would certainly be a huge Shocker with Two candidates in the Americas and one in Asia.

jim jones

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
you not only think Madrid will win based on that shoddy logic, but will win by a "large difference"....hahaha yea ok...

I don't think Madrid will win by a large marge. What I'm saying is that's certainly a possibility on those circumstances that I had described before. Madrid has very few chances in my opinion, but as some say, we never know...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Madrid winning would be the absolute shocker of the century. It is not that they don't have huge abilities to host which they do . It is that Back to Back European Summer Olympics would certainly be a huge Shocker with Two candidates in the Americas and one in Asia.

jim jones

A Madrid win in 2016 would almost certainly bring the Games to a new frontier in 2020 as the result of this "scandal". Cape Town and Rio would love to lose to Madrid .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A Madrid win in 2016 would almost certainly bring the Games to a new frontier in 2020 as the result of this "scandal". Cape Town and Rio would love to lose to Madrid .

Well consider that Spain hosting again for 2016 over Two Economies much larger in the US and Japan would be a Shocker . Tokyo especially with a 52 year interval between Japan Summer Olympics.

Then you have the rate of growth of Brazil which by 2016 could actually have a larger economy then Spain it would be a total shock again even without the Back to Back European Hosting with 2012 and 2016. Rio has the attraction of geography and time zones for running events in favor of American TV but of course so does Chicago. Really Madrid certainly should have taken the course of Athens and Beijing not doing back to back bids but doing their bid after the 2012 loss being 2020.

As to one poster who said about Spain being embolden by the win for 1992. Paris for 1992 might have been the only realistic competitor for Barcelona. Belgrade , Brisbane, Birmingham and Amsterdam I am sure could have probably put on good games but those cities seem a bit regional . Spain certainly had the frontier candidate title forwarding Barcelona . Since 1964 to 2000 the Summer games had not returned to a city via bid election preferring new city that ran Tokyo 1964 , Mexico 1968 Munich 1972 Montreal 1976 Moscow 1980 Seoul 1988 . Enough Evidence there for Paris to believe the odds generally didn't favor them for 1992 but again a return to Paris for a third time could be due with the recent bid history. 1992. 1996 and 2000 that new comers indeed had the upper hand it seems. We may see a shift to a pattern of Frontier or New city, prior host developing in the 2000's . Sydney, Athens , Beijing, London and perhaps a frontier country/city maybe the order for 2016 . What class do you put Madrid in ? New City i would say.

Jim jones

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think Madrid will win by a large marge. What I'm saying is that's certainly a possibility on those circumstances that I had described before. Madrid has very few chances in my opinion, but as some say, we never know...

Back to Back Summer Olympics in Europe has not happened since the Age of Global TV. London 1948 Helsinki 1952 was indeed the last. Tv Ratings and revenues from rights fund much of the IOC now.

Basically you could put the growth in rights fees for the biggest paying territory on Hold if NBC was to endure losses it did with Athens for Two games in a Row . London 2012 and Madrid 2016.

That is part of the reason for the delay in Us broadcasting rights for 2016 by the IOC. They are really pushing this towards Chicago or perhaps Rio who has a good time zone to adjust for Prime Time Eastern United States. Unless London and Madrid were to run events live at 2am local time the internet and 24 hour news cycle has no live surprises for the American Market which pays the lions share of Top Sponsors and TV rights globally.

Jim jones

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
However, I think no one would say Madrid has no chances at all. It's a very strong bid, as well as the other three.

The four cities are very close in charts like BidIndex.

Yeah...but the IOC members are internationalists. They think internationally. They know they have a 'global' product -- so if all 4 are very close technically, then why should it go to another city in the European continent where the last two (2012 and 2014) will be held? Hmmmm? So it really is beside the point whether Madrid is the best bid or not. Geopolitics rules. Madrid should know how to TIME its bid. Perhaps if Barcelona didn't get 1992, then certainly now would be Madrid's time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
Yeah...but the IOC members are internationalists. They think internationally. They know they have a 'global' product -- so if all 4 are very close technically, then why should it go to another city in the European continent where the last two (2012 and 2014) will be held? Hmmmm? So it really is beside the point whether Madrid is the best bid or not. Geopolitics rules. Madrid should know how to TIME its bid. Perhaps if Barcelona didn't get 1992, then certainly now would be Madrid's time.

Well. If Barcelona wouldnt have made it 1992, Madrid would do it now, you say. Nice argue, indeed. That means you also think ,Madrid has the strongest bid of all four, not taking in consideration the geo-political factors? I do agree with you, Baron. Its probably the first time i do agree with you.

Yes. Madrid seems to deverse those Olympic games, even if they wont make the run.

Its Rio´s time, as long as they know, how "not" to loose.

Brazil´s strength depends on state goverment. Question is ... ? Will Lula be that strong coming years? Will Brazil keep his social-political stability in a few years? Is Brazil that stable?

Fairplay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome Qwerty.

Madrid's biggest problem, by far, is London not Barcelona.

As for whether they're being greedy (which is I suppose what you're saying), I don't suppose they'd see it like that when it costs them tens of millions of Euros to get together a decent bid! I tend to think it would be too soon after Barcelona and, like you, would prefer to see other European countries before Spain again. But having said that, I wouldn't be dissapointed in a Madrid Games if that's what the IOC decided (they won't for 2012, they may for 2020 or 2024). They'd do a great job.

Madrids other problem is 2016 would make 3 out of 4 games from 2004 to 2016 in Europe. 3 times in Europe in the Span of 12 years .

Then you take into account the Winter Olympics and you have 2006 and 2014 basically in Europe. You are looking at 5 out of 7 Olympic games between the winter and summer being in Europe.

Back to Back European Olympics don't happen in the Television Age and then you add the internet to that which provides little in Revenues to an NBC or US TV network. Madrid bidding for 2016 really is a waste. When Athens lost 1996 they stepped back and did not bid on 2000 then winning 2004. They probably knew that there is a bit of a pattern and prior host cities and countries do have a bit of a handicap. Atlanta 1996 was the first win , in serious bidding, for an American City to win the Games . Madrid bidding on 2016 is not unlike Munich bidding on the 2018 winter games A general waste of money and effort. Both Places can host great games but as was shown with Beijing so can most any place in the world.

Madrid's problems are A. too soon for Spain after Barcelona 1992 B. London 2012 C. London 2012 and Athens 2004 D. The Greenwich Mean Time zone for a third Summer Olympics Making for a potential ratings disaster with a risk factor of US tv being in the order of 2 billion dollars . E. London , Sochi , Madrid ?

Jim Jones

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Madrids other problem is 2016 would make 3 out of 4 games from 2004 to 2016 in Europe. 3 times in Europe in the Span of 12 years .

Then you take into account the Winter Olympics and you have 2006 and 2014 basically in Europe. You are looking at 5 out of 7 Olympic games between the winter and summer being in Europe.

Back to Back European Olympics don't happen in the Television Age and then you add the internet to that which provides little in Revenues to an NBC or US TV network. Madrid bidding for 2016 really is a waste. When Athens lost 1996 they stepped back and did not bid on 2000 then winning 2004. They probably knew that there is a bit of a pattern and prior host cities and countries do have a bit of a handicap. Atlanta 1996 was the first win , in serious bidding, for an American City to win the Games . Madrid bidding on 2016 is not unlike Munich bidding on the 2018 winter games A general waste of money and effort. Both Places can host great games but as was shown with Beijing so can most any place in the world.

Madrid's problems are A. too soon for Spain after Barcelona 1992 B. London 2012 C. London 2012 and Athens 2004 D. The Greenwich Mean Time zone for a third Summer Olympics Making for a potential ratings disaster with a risk factor of US tv being in the order of 2 billion dollars . E. London , Sochi , Madrid ?

Jim Jones

You are certainly right. However, I regard that the US' influence is going down and it's not as strong as it used to be years ago. In any case, I think that the true decision will be made once the lobbying begin. If Chicago does not come out with a score above Rio in the IOC report, their chances of winning will diminish a lot. Rio will kill them on the first round.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the Madrid bid for 2016 is only to stay on scene, to colect all information and experience, to prepare the terrain to it's real bid for 2020, were they have great chances. To host in 2016, the other 3 candidates must show many weakness, but we are seeng the contrary.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah...but the IOC members are internationalists. They think internationally. They know they have a 'global' product -- so if all 4 are very close technically, then why should it go to another city in the European continent where the last two (2012 and 2014) will be held? Hmmmm? So it really is beside the point whether Madrid is the best bid or not. Geopolitics rules. Madrid should know how to TIME its bid. Perhaps if Barcelona didn't get 1992, then certainly now would be Madrid's time.

Geopolitics rules, true. And that's exactly where Madrid's real chances lie. Everyone in the IOC knows that they have technically the best bid: it's no surprise since they've worked on the few flaws of the near-perfect 2012 score. Given that, it's only a matter of the Spanish delegation being strong enough to displace the others. The general sentiment I guess is that most of the IOC prefers Chicago over Rio, but Rio does not offer the guarantee of a perfect Olympiad. And that's where the chances for Madrid lay. The games won't go back to Asia after Beijing, and especially not to a city that already hosted them when the other 3 cities have never had the games, with a country that is not very involved in sport in any case. So Madrid is bidding for secure, perfect games from a country strong in sport. It's Europe again true, but that's where most of the Olympic sports people train and come from anyway. And where nearly half of the IOC members are from.

That's why lobbying will be the key factor (as always)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. Geopolitics rules, true. And that's exactly where Madrid's real chances lie. Everyone in the IOC knows that they have technically the best bid: it's no surprise since they've worked on the few flaws of the near-perfect 2012 score. Given that, it's only a matter of the Spanish delegation being strong enough to displace the others. The general sentiment I guess is that most of the IOC prefers Chicago over Rio, but Rio does not offer the guarantee of a perfect Olympiad. And that's where the chances for Madrid lay.

2. The games won't go back to Asia after Beijing, and especially not to a city that already hosted them when the other 3 cities have never had the games, with a country that is not very involved in sport in any case. So Madrid is bidding for secure, perfect games from a country strong in sport.

3. It's Europe again true, but that's where most of the Olympic sports people train and come from anyway. And where nearly half of the IOC members are from.

4. That's why lobbying will be the key factor (as always)

1 and 2. Correct points. I agree with you.

3. Disagree. I don't think the French, the Czechs, the Germans...and whomever else...would want a Madrid victory now. That would push back their 2020 - 2024 - 2028 ambitions. You do NOT have Europe locked in.

4. Exactly. Juan Carlos/Sofia and Lula will be no match for Barack-Michelle-Oprah-Nadia. Madrid out in the first round. Look at the odds in the betting pages -- http://odds.bestbetting.com/specials/curre...e-2016-olympics

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 and 2. Correct points. I agree with you.

3. Disagree. I don't think the French, the Czechs, the Germans...and whomever else...would want a Madrid victory now. That would push back their 2020 - 2024 - 2028 ambitions. You do NOT have Europe locked in.

4. Exactly. Juan Carlos/Sofia and Lula will be no match for Barack-Michelle-Oprah-Nadia. Madrid out in the first round. Look at the odds in the betting pages -- http://odds.bestbetting.com/specials/curre...e-2016-olympics

Idont know but here in europe Ophra is not a star as u think she is and nadi whois comaneci? ..... We hve not only Royal house, we have too President of spain, and the bride between africa and europe, it Africa unfortunaty still is notready , we can offer games near of their home! :-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi all,

I'm a new member of this forum i find really entusiastic and interesting. And why not, i think that the first thing i must say is that as a madrileño, i firmly support the bid of Madrid 2016

I've been reading some post, specially those that have been written by our skeptical Baron about the Madrid bid. Dear Baron, i would like you to be a litle bit more objective in your arguments, an not to look down on every idea or comment supporting the Madrid bid. :unsure:

I haven't seen any member of this forum rejecting Rio's comments in the way you do with Madrid's. :blink:

Well, we all know how controversial is the matter of the continental rotation system. But i would like to tranlate what the IOC's president have said this evening in Madrid for two times related to this supposed system when she was asked by the press.

"La presidenta dijo que "ganará la mejor candidatura" y negó que hubiese una regla no escrita sobre la rotación de los Juegos por los diferentes continentes. A su entender, la evaluación que van a hacer sí tendrá un peso en la decisión final." ELMUNDO.ES

The presidente said that the best bid will win, and she denied that there is any written rule about a continental rotation for the Olympic Games. In her opinion, the evaluation they will do will be weighty over the final decission

Ok, it's not a written rule but a tacit rule i hope it could be definetely overcome. Nowadays, in this global world, with such multicultural nations, it makes no sense to take that supossed rule into account.

Regards,

madaboutMAD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Madrid's problems are A. too soon for Spain after Barcelona 1992 B. London 2012 C. London 2012 and Athens 2004 D. The Greenwich Mean Time zone for a third Summer Olympics Making for a potential ratings disaster with a risk factor of US tv being in the order of 2 billion dollars . E. London , Sochi , Madrid ?

Jim Jones

and If to count both summer and winter olympics that wud be, athens, torino, london ,socchi, madrid !? I dont think thats happening. South America never had a winter olympics either (nor was held in the southern hemisphere) , tho Santiago Chile is a potential bid for 2018, itll be interesting all major games hosted in the same continent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 and 2. Correct points. I agree with you.

3. Disagree. I don't think the French, the Czechs, the Germans...and whomever else...would want a Madrid victory now. That would push back their 2020 - 2024 - 2028 ambitions. You do NOT have Europe locked in.

4. Exactly. Juan Carlos/Sofia and Lula will be no match for Barack-Michelle-Oprah-Nadia. Madrid out in the first round. Look at the odds in the betting pages -- http://odds.bestbetting.com/specials/curre...e-2016-olympics

About the 4th point, I believe that the Spanish Royal Family should be Chicago's biggest worry. To start with many of the IOC members are royal personalities themselves, with whom the Royal Family has a very long and peaceful relationship, especially in the Middle East. The Spanish Royal Family is discrete compared to most European houses and is actively involved in international projects, conferences and State visits on a constant basis. It's been more than one the occasions where the King and Queen have gone on a State visit replacing the Spanish President in order to encourage economic or political relationships. They're known everywhere and they are taken seriously.

Obama is the US' President true, but he is relatively new and has not had time to establish relationships with many countries. The Spanish Royal Family has been around the world since 1976 representing Spain as a modern democracy. As a matter of fact, the King's sister, Pilar de Borbón is an honorary member of the IOC. Do not underestimate them because you are going to be very surprised, trust me.

And to be frank, in my opinion the effect Oprah can have on IOC members as compared to the support an elite sportsman such as Rafael Nadal or Gervasio Deferr can bring (or from any other of the bidding countries for that matter) is ridiculous.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Obama is the US' President true, but he is relatively new and has not had time to establish relationships with many countries. The Spanish Royal Family has been around the world since 1976 representing Spain as a modern democracy. As a matter of fact, the King's sister, Pilar de Borbón is an honorary member of the IOC. Do not underestimate them because you are going to be very surprised, trust me.

Well, why didn't Madrid win in 2005? :blink:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Madrid's problems are A. too soon for Spain after Barcelona 1992 B. London 2012 C. London 2012 and Athens 2004 D. The Greenwich Mean Time zone for a third Summer Olympics Making for a potential ratings disaster with a risk factor of US tv being in the order of 2 billion dollars . E. London , Sochi , Madrid ?

IMO

Chicagos problems: Too soon after London 2012 (not again anglo-saxon Games) and too soon after L.A. 1984 and Atlanta 1996.

Chicago is bidding just to get expirience for 2024!

Low support: 67% of population.

Low points in first round-evaluation together with Rio!

Fairplay

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...