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World Cup 2018 Australia


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Did Japan and Korea have that much experience? Or the USA?

Uhmmm, the US Soccer Federation Fact Book says:

The US Football Association (the original name) was incorporated in 1910; and affiliated with FIFA in 1913." So - a century ago in 2 years.

The first international soccer games to take place outside of the British Isles were between the USA and Canada in 1885 and 1886, respectively ...

DON"T think the US is such a newbie in soccer!! :angry:

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Interesting, Franky Lowry (FFA Chairman and all round nice guy) has stated Australia will aim to use 16 stadiums. There are only 14 cities (4 of which exist close to Sydney, not including Sydney) with populations over 100,000. Its going to be interesting to see how FFA works the spread of games accross some of the smaller cities.

Maybe FIFA will give exception to an Australia city on the "only one city with two venues" rule, given Australia's significant urban population and concerntration.

Sydney and Melbourne (maybe Brisbane) could put forward 2 stadiums.

If he wants to aim for 16 stadiums i'd say

1. Sydney

2. Melbourne (MCG)

3. Melbourne (MFS)

4. Brisbane

5. Perth

6. Adelaide

7. Canberra

8. Townsville

9. Gosford

10. Newcastle

11. Hobart

12. Darwin

13. Gold Coast

14. Geelong

15. Wollongong

16. Cairns ??

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Interesting, Franky Lowry (FFA Chairman and all round nice guy) has stated Australia will aim to use 16 stadiums. There are only 14 cities (4 of which exist close to Sydney, not including Sydney) with populations over 100,000. Its going to be interesting to see how FFA works the spread of games accross some of the smaller cities.

Maybe FIFA will give exception to an Australia city on the "only one city with two venues" rule, given Australia's significant urban population and concerntration.

Sydney and Melbourne (maybe Brisbane) could put forward 2 stadiums.

If he wants to aim for 16 stadiums i'd say

1. Sydney

2. Melbourne (MCG)

3. Melbourne (MFS)

4. Brisbane

5. Perth

6. Adelaide

7. Canberra

8. Townsville

9. Gosford

10. Newcastle

11. Hobart

12. Darwin

13. Gold Coast

14. Geelong

15. Wollongong

16. Cairns ??

I doubt 16 stadiums will actually be used for a WC. Lowy was probably referring to the FFA's possible preference of having 16 venues to choose from; not literally have 16 venues. I'd think it's more likely there will be 9-10 venues; with Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Gold Coast, Adelaide, Perth and Newcastle certain to feature (with either Syd or Melb with the second venue). The other 2 venues could be located in Canberra (likely), Townsville, Gosford (unlikely- unless Sydney only has 1 venue) or Hobart. I'd prefer Canberra and Hobart, as it incorporates each state and the capital.

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I doubt 16 stadiums will actually be used for a WC. Lowy was probably referring to the FFA's possible preference of having 16 venues to choose from; not literally have 16 venues. I'd think it's more likely there will be 9-10 venues; with Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Gold Coast, Adelaide, Perth and Newcastle certain to feature (with either Syd or Melb with the second venue). The other 2 venues could be located in Canberra (likely), Townsville, Gosford (unlikely- unless Sydney only has 1 venue) or Hobart. I'd prefer Canberra and Hobart, as it incorporates each state and the capital.

Sydney is the flashy city but Melbourne will get the nod for the 2 stadiums. The MCG is in, then its just a matter of working out how using either Telstra Dome or the new football stadium will affect local sport (NRL, AFL). Theres just simply a bigger football market in Melbourne than in Sydney; though Sydney siders will never admit to that.

You're probably on the money about the 16 choices. I really dont want to see cities like Cairns and Darwin just thrown along for the ride; the really have nothing to offer football.

Hobarts hopes hinge on getting an A-League franchise before 2010-2012.

Apart from the 5 major cities i really hope to see Canberra, Hobart, Townsville, Gold Coast, Newcastle and Gosford thrown in to. Giving us 12 stadiums.

You may doubt Gosford proximity to Sydney though with Melbourne getting the 2 venues rather than Sydney and the strong culture associate with Central Coast Mariners FC i dont see why FFA will ignore the region.

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Sydney is the flashy city but Melbourne will get the nod for the 2 stadiums. The MCG is in, then its just a matter of working out how using either Telstra Dome or the new football stadium will affect local sport (NRL, AFL). Theres just simply a bigger football market in Melbourne than in Sydney; though Sydney siders will never admit to that.

You're probably on the money about the 16 choices. I really dont want to see cities like Cairns and Darwin just thrown along for the ride; the really have nothing to offer football.

Hobarts hopes hinge on getting an A-League franchise before 2010-2012.

Apart from the 5 major cities i really hope to see Canberra, Hobart, Townsville, Gold Coast, Newcastle and Gosford thrown in to. Giving us 12 stadiums.

You may doubt Gosford proximity to Sydney though with Melbourne getting the 2 venues rather than Sydney and the strong culture associate with Central Coast Mariners FC i dont see why FFA will ignore the region.

I'd prefer the 10 stadium model myself. Australia simply does not have enough cities with significant populations to a) Justify building/redeveloping numerous stadiums to 40,000 capacity & B) support the huge influx of visitors into our cities. The 5 major cities, Gold Coast and Newcastle are large enough, but what of the other cities? I can't see Townsville, Hobart and Gosford all featuring in a WC, considering they have populations of less than 200,000; with the former 2 located a long way from any other major urban area, which would not make them viable in terms of supporting potentially 20,000 visitors. The FFA would probably like to minimize travel distance between stadiums considering Australia's sheer size, which would rule out Townsville (obviously an exemption has to be made for Perth, as it Aus's 4th largest city).If Melbourne gets the 2 venues, then Gosford should be included; though a 40,000 seat stadium on the CC would certainly be a white elephant, even with The Central Coast's football culture. If Sydney, however, gets the 2 venues, then surely Gosford would not be selected as it would mean NSW would have 4 venues. Canberra, meanwhile, will probably receive a massive amount of Government funding for the nation's capital to be included.

Personally, i'd like Sydney to have 2 stadiums; firstly because the venues would be located in completely different section of the metropolis (ANZ Stadium-Western suburbs, SFS-East) as opposed to Melbourne, where the stadiums would be 800m away from each other (unless TD is used, though thats unlikely considering the AFL must have one of the cities 2 major venues available). Secondly, it would mean Melbourne would host the final! (Surely the arrangement would be one city gets the final the other gets 2 venues and opening match).

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FIFA selects the host of the final and an Australian world cup would have the final at Stadium Australia in Sydney. Sydney is Australia's biggest and most well-known city and is where the biggest and most important football match would be played.

The only exception to the capital or largest city rule for the final has been Japan's hosting in 2002.

2006 - Berlin (Capital and Largest)

2002 - Yokohama

1998 - Paris

1994 - Los Angeles (the county)

1990 - Rome

1986 - Mexico City

1982 - Madrid

1978 - Buenos Aires

1974 - Munich - is now the 3rd, unknown what it was 34 years ago, but still one of Germany's 3 big cities

1970 - Mexico City

1966 - London

1962 - Santiago de Chile

1958 - Stockholm

1954 - Berne

1950 - Rio de Janeiro (the then capital and largest city)

1938 - Paris

1934 - Rome

1930 - Montevideo

With one exception in 2002, every world cup final was been held in the capital city, or when not available the largest or most well known city.

Munich and LA filled those roles and Sydney will do that for any Australia world cup. FIFA would much rather the final in Sydney then in Melbourne.

BTW, Baron, Montevideo holds the record for attendance at a WC game at 93,000 not LA.

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FIFA selects the host of the final and an Australian world cup would have the final at Stadium Australia in Sydney. Sydney is Australia's biggest and most well-known city and is where the biggest and most important football match would be played.

The only exception to the capital or largest city rule for the final has been Japan's hosting in 2002.

2006 - Berlin (Capital and Largest)

2002 - Yokohama

1998 - Paris

1994 - Los Angeles (the county)

1990 - Rome

1986 - Mexico City

1982 - Madrid

1978 - Buenos Aires

1974 - Munich - is now the 3rd, unknown what it was 34 years ago, but still one of Germany's 3 big cities

1970 - Mexico City

1966 - London

1962 - Santiago de Chile

1958 - Stockholm

1954 - Berne

1950 - Rio de Janeiro (the then capital and largest city)

1938 - Paris

1934 - Rome

1930 - Montevideo

With one exception in 2002, every world cup final was been held in the capital city, or when not available the largest or most well known city.

Munich and LA filled those roles and Sydney will do that for any Australia world cup. FIFA would much rather the final in Sydney then in Melbourne.

BTW, Baron, Montevideo holds the record for attendance at a WC game at 93,000 not LA.

Oh dear, not this argument again! It'll be in Melbourne for sporting history and the fact we have the largest capacity venue anyways, it'll only be in Sydney only if they really really want it at a rectangular venue (yeah right!).

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FIFA will choice Sydney, there is no question of that. The MCG has terrible football sight-lines and so what if it can hold 100,000, Sydney's could be re-expanded to 110,000 and that is not a major consideration for the final. FIFA will want Sydney, the track record is there to prove it.

FIFA got crucified for having the final in 2002 in Yokohama instead of Osaka or Seoul.

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If you go by the largest stadium argument and apply it to Germany the stadium list would have been

Dortmund - Signal Iduna Park - 81,000

Berlin - Olympiastadion - 76,000

Munich - Allianz Arena - 69,000

Munich - Olympiastadion - 66,000

Gelsenkirchen - Veltins Arean - 61,000

Hamburg - HSH Nordbank Arena - 57,000

Stuttgart - Gottlieb Daimler Stadion - 54,000

M'Gladback - Borussia Park - 53,000

Frankfurt - Commerzbank-Arena - 52,000

Cologe - Rein Energy Stadion - 51,000

So that means no Kaiserslautern (though Breman should have had their spot to begin with), Leipzig, Nuremberg and Hanover.

The final would have been held in Dortmund, the 3rd place in Munich, the opener in Berlin and the semi's in Munich and Gelsenkirchen. But FIFA selected Dortmund and Munich for the semis, Munich for the opener, Stuttgart for the 3rd place and Berlin as the final. Dortmund was chosen by request of Germany, Munich was because its Germany's second city (sorry CAF) and search me why Stuttgart, Hamburg should have been in on that one.

FIFA looks at more than capacity for the major matches, they look for the city, the media attention, the infrastructure and which city is best suited for their major games and in all cases Sydney has it over Melbourne.

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FIFA selects the host of the final and an Australian world cup would have the final at Stadium Australia in Sydney. Sydney is Australia's biggest and most well-known city and is where the biggest and most important football match would be played.

The only exception to the capital or largest city rule for the final has been Japan's hosting in 2002.

2006 - Berlin (Capital and Largest)

2002 - Yokohama

1998 - Paris

1994 - Los Angeles (the county)

1990 - Rome

1986 - Mexico City

1982 - Madrid

1978 - Buenos Aires

1974 - Munich - is now the 3rd, unknown what it was 34 years ago, but still one of Germany's 3 big cities

1970 - Mexico City

1966 - London

1962 - Santiago de Chile

1958 - Stockholm

1954 - Berne

1950 - Rio de Janeiro (the then capital and largest city)

1938 - Paris

1934 - Rome

1930 - Montevideo

With one exception in 2002, every world cup final was been held in the capital city, or when not available the largest or most well known city.

Munich and LA filled those roles and Sydney will do that for any Australia world cup. FIFA would much rather the final in Sydney then in Melbourne.

BTW, Baron, Montevideo holds the record for attendance at a WC game at 93,000 not LA.

Going by this list, 1994 would be another exception. Los Angeles is not the capital, nor the largest, nor is it the most well known city in the U.S.

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Going by this list, 1994 would be another exception. Los Angeles is not the capital, nor the largest, nor is it the most well known city in the U.S.

Exactly, the Rose Bowl in Pasadena was chosen due to the fact it was the largest stadium. Therefore, the MCG would be chosen to host the final, due to the fact it's Australia's largest venue.

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Faster, sorry but in this instance you are wrong. It may be up to FIFA but i dont think the FFA or Frank Lowy will sit back and let FIFA dictate on this one. Despite a small reputation for being a football nation the FFA actually throws its weight around with FIFA a bit...for some reason they having grown a very tight relationship with Blatter.

Sydney is smaller and im doubtful it will be re-expanded. It seems like a lot of effort for just a handful of football Games. Sydney does not need a 110,000 seat venue. It would only ever be filled for the NRL final and World Cup qualification Games.

Melbourne however, has an existing 98,000 seat venue with equal (if not better) facilities than Sydney, is closer to transport and the CBD and has a track record of hosting major events for over 100 years. It has been host to the largest capacity football game in Australia and crap about sightlines is bullshit. Ive been the MCG several times, perfect views from everywhere ive sat. Australia v Greece in 2006 infront of 98,000 people...no complaints about sightlines there!

Melbourne simply has the better culture for sport and football and more accessable accomodation/transport.

Like Lord David said, the rectangular ground arguement may come into it...though ANZ Stadium still is a good 15m from the pitch on both sides in rectangular mode.

Sydney, however will get the Opening Game unless Adelaide can plan a marque venue at least 60,000 capacity.

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Going by this list, 1994 would be another exception. Los Angeles is not the capital, nor the largest, nor is it the most well known city in the U.S.

Los Angeles County is the largest in the US at about 15 million. That is the metro population of LA and metro population is being used to compare cities because it is the only one that is consistent throughout much of the world.

New York can be argued, but their metro area is questionable.

So it can be an exception.

Also since I am looking at it, Yokohama is defined as apart of the Tokyo urban area, therefore 2002 is not that big of an exception.

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Faster, sorry but in this instance you are wrong. It may be up to FIFA but i dont think the FFA or Frank Lowy will sit back and let FIFA dictate on this one. Despite a small reputation for being a football nation the FFA actually throws its weight around with FIFA a bit...for some reason they having grown a very tight relationship with Blatter.

Sydney is smaller and im doubtful it will be re-expanded. It seems like a lot of effort for just a handful of football Games. Sydney does not need a 110,000 seat venue. It would only ever be filled for the NRL final and World Cup qualification Games.

Melbourne however, has an existing 98,000 seat venue with equal (if not better) facilities than Sydney, is closer to transport and the CBD and has a track record of hosting major events for over 100 years. It has been host to the largest capacity football game in Australia and crap about sightlines is bullshit. Ive been the MCG several times, perfect views from everywhere ive sat. Australia v Greece in 2006 infront of 98,000 people...no complaints about sightlines there!

Melbourne simply has the better culture for sport and football and more accessable accomodation/transport.

Like Lord David said, the rectangular ground arguement may come into it...though ANZ Stadium still is a good 15m from the pitch on both sides in rectangular mode.

Sydney, however will get the Opening Game unless Adelaide can plan a marque venue at least 60,000 capacity.

If your sporting argument was true then Munich would have hosted the final in 2006, it has a longer and far more storied footballing history than Berlin having Bayern playing there. It had hosted the Olympics and World CUp final previously and has multiple WC events every year in and around the city in various sports. But FIFA choice Berlin, the most well-known and important German city ahead of the sporting history (Munich) and the largest stadium (Dortmund).

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Also, The Rose Bowl is not the largest stadium in the US, Michigan Stadium in Ann Harbor and Ohio Stadium in Columbus are at 108 and 101 thousand each. Neither of them factored much. and Ohio Stadium is actually a pretty nice one.

and if Melbourne is so much better than Sydney, why is it a 6 Gemma city and Sydney is a 9 Beta city on the cusp of being an alpha city like Chicago, New York, Tokyo, London, Paris.

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Sydney is the flashy city but Melbourne will get the nod for the 2 stadiums. The MCG is in, then its just a matter of working out how using either Telstra Dome or the new football stadium will affect local sport (NRL, AFL). Theres just simply a bigger football market in Melbourne than in Sydney; though Sydney siders will never admit to that.

Okay, I'll bite. With all due respect Aaron (and I researched this one):

NSW really does have strong claims to be being the heartland of Soccer in Oz. The first organised soccer club in Oz was in Sydney (Parramatta 1880), the first Football Association was also in NSW in 1882. NSW fields three teams in the current A-League to Victoria's one. Western Sydney is tipped as the next expension team (along with the Gold Coast) for the A-League. Between Sydney FC, Newcastle Jets and Central Coast Mariners, crowds to A-League matches in NSW are above the figures for Victorian crowds (Weekly crowd averages: 2005-06 NSW 33,000, Vic 14,000; 2006-07 NSW 35,000, Vic 27,000; 2007-08 NSW 42,000, Vic 26,000).

Of the three A-League finals so far, the Sydney/Newcastle region has won two of them, and supplied four of the six clubs that have made the final. In the previous NSL league, Sydney City, Sydney Olympic, Wollongong and Leichhardt Apia have won more titles combined than any other state. Indeed, Sydney dominated the first years of the NSL, winning five of the first six finals.

While the MCG might hold the crowd record from the 1956 games and the 1997 qualifier against Iran, remember, this is a capacity issue. WC qualifiers in recent years at Telstra (sorry, ANZ) Stadium have been sellouts as well (eg, 2005 V Uruguay).

Anyway, we're talking a World Cup Finals here. Are you seriously suggesting that the matches, wherever they're held _ be it Sydney, Melbourne, Brewarrina or Nooriupta _ wouldn't be sellouts?

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Okay, I'll bite. With all due respect Aaron (and I researched this one):

NSW really does have strong claims to be being the heartland of Soccer in Oz. The first organised soccer club in Oz was in Sydney (Parramatta 1880), the first Football Association was also in NSW in 1882. NSW fields three teams in the current A-League to Victoria's one. Western Sydney is tipped as the next expension team (along with the Gold Coast) for the A-League. Between Sydney FC, Newcastle Jets and Central Coast Mariners, crowds to A-League matches in NSW are above the figures for Victorian crowds (Weekly crowd averages: 2005-06 NSW 33,000, Vic 14,000; 2006-07 NSW 35,000, Vic 27,000; 2007-08 NSW 42,000, Vic 26,000).

Of the three A-League finals so far, the Sydney/Newcastle region has won two of them, and supplied four of the six clubs that have made the final. In the previous NSL league, Sydney City, Sydney Olympic, Wollongong and Leichhardt Apia have won more titles combined than any other state. Indeed, Sydney dominated the first years of the NSL, winning five of the first six finals.

While the MCG might hold the crowd record from the 1956 games and the 1997 qualifier against Iran, remember, this is a capacity issue. WC qualifiers in recent years at Telstra (sorry, ANZ) Stadium have been sellouts as well (eg, 2005 V Uruguay).

Anyway, we're talking a World Cup Finals here. Are you seriously suggesting that the matches, wherever they're held _ be it Sydney, Melbourne, Brewarrina or Nooriupta _ wouldn't be sellouts?

I think a better comparison would be between Melbourne and Sydney; not Melbourne & NSW. You stated that Western Sydney is tipped for the next expansion team which is incorrect; the FFA have confirmed that the Gold Coast Galaxy (as you said) and the North Queensland Thunder will joing the league originally in 2008 but now most likely 2009. West Sydney, it is expected, will gain a license in the following expansion; the same time Melbourne is expected to gain a second licence.

You have said that between Sydney, Newcastle & Central Coast (i.e. 3 completely different teams in 3 completely different cities) attracted in total more people on average to games than in Victoria. That should be expected; considering it's 3 teams from 3 cities versuses 1 team from 1 city. A fairer comparison, would be between Melbourne Victory & Sydney FC; from the two major cities in the country. 2005-06 Syd-16,700 Melb-14,200; 2006-07 Syd-15,000 Melb-27,700; 2007-08 Syd-16,300 Melb-26,000. Average over 3 years: Syd-16,200 Melb-23,100. Melbourne has seen all 3 attendances over 45,000; 4 of 5 over 40,000 and 7 of 13 over 30,000 (including Queensland) of all A league matches.

You cannot say that NSW is the heart of football simply because it has the most cities to support a viable licence. The FFA has stipulated that in the first 5 years of the competition only one team can be based in each city. Thus, Victoria can only viably support one team currently due to this rule as Melbourne's the only big city- Geelong simply is too AFL minded to follow soccer. When comparing Melbourne & Sydney, 2 cities of relatively the samish size and sporting creditentials, it appears Melbourne is the heart of football based on evidence from the first 3 years of the A-league.

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Los Angeles County is the largest in the US at about 15 million. That is the metro population of LA and metro population is being used to compare cities because it is the only one that is consistent throughout much of the world.

New York can be argued, but their metro area is questionable.

So it can be an exception.

Also since I am looking at it, Yokohama is defined as apart of the Tokyo urban area, therefore 2002 is not that big of an exception.

No, actually Los Angeles county's population is 10 million (although, yes, the largest county in the U.S.). The Greater Los Angeles metropolitan area (which are L.A., Orange, far western Riverside & far Southwestern San Bernardino counties) is 15 million. While New York's metro area now is almost at the 20 million mark. There's nothing questionable about it.

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and if Melbourne is so much better than Sydney, why is it a 6 Gemma city and Sydney is a 9 Beta city on the cusp of being an alpha city like Chicago, New York, Tokyo, London, Paris.

Simple, population that's all. If we'd be able to match in terms of population, then we'd be right up there. But that'll probably never happen unless a sudden influx of immigrants happen.

But to be more complex, there are probably other factors that come to it which makes Sydney better, but hey, I still say that Melbourne is way better than crap old Sydney. :P

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But to be more complex, there are probably other factors that come to it which makes Sydney better, but hey, I still say that Melbourne is way better than crap old Sydney. :P

hooray.

Roland i really dont see how Melbourne v NSW works. I'm sure if there were a franchise in eastern Melbourne and a team in Geelong those figures would be much more comparable. As for now, this is Sydney v Melbourne, not Sydney + Gosford + Newcastle v Melbourne victory.

You're right about selling out World Cup finals games so its not a matter of which venue has better access etc, however Sydney i'd think has a lesser record for football support in comparison to other Australian cities when you factor in population differences. 2004 saw only 30,000 people (at a 42,000 seat ground in Sydney) to see the Socceroos play for the first time on Australian soil since loosing to Uraguay in the 2002 qualification. Even in the old NSL days Perth would pull 35,000 to the competition final...in the last NSL grand final held in western Sydney i think they were lucky to scrap together 6,000 people.

None the less times have changed and Sydney does a lot better...but i still dont see FIFA looking past such an iconic venue like the MCG...History and the superior capacity will get to them. Sydneys had the RWC and Olympics...give Melbourne a go!

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hooray.

Roland i really dont see how Melbourne v NSW works. I'm sure if there were a franchise in eastern Melbourne and a team in Geelong those figures would be much more comparable. As for now, this is Sydney v Melbourne, not Sydney + Gosford + Newcastle v Melbourne victory.

You're right about selling out World Cup finals games so its not a matter of which venue has better access etc, however Sydney i'd think has a lesser record for football support in comparison to other Australian cities when you factor in population differences. 2004 saw only 30,000 people (at a 42,000 seat ground in Sydney) to see the Socceroos play for the first time on Australian soil since loosing to Uraguay in the 2002 qualification. Even in the old NSL days Perth would pull 35,000 to the competition final...in the last NSL grand final held in western Sydney i think they were lucky to scrap together 6,000 people.

None the less times have changed and Sydney does a lot better...but i still dont see FIFA looking past such an iconic venue like the MCG...History and the superior capacity will get to them. Sydneys had the RWC and Olympics...give Melbourne a go!

Indeed, just look at that Australia vs Greece match in 2006, drew in an almost full capacity crowd, and it was merely friendly send off before the 2006 WC.

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