Uefa Qualifying

[Faster]

June 2nd

Kazakhstan 1 - 2 Armenia

Finland - Serbia

Belgium - Portugal

Azerbaijan - Poland

Faroe Islands - Italy

Lithuania - Georgia

France - Ukraine

Basnia-Herzegovina - Turkey

Norway - Malta

Greece - Hungary

Wales - Czech Republic

Germany - San Marino

Russia - Andorra

Macedonia - Israel

Estonia - Croatia

Iceland - Liechstenstein

Denmark - Sweden

Latvia - Spain

Albania - Luxembourg

Slovenia - Romania

Belarus - Bulgaria

I guess I have nothing to worry about, Croatia and Germany should easily win.

[Faster]

Are any of the other Germans and German fans feeling bad for San Marino right now, Simoncini gets sent off and boom, 4 goals, including 2 by subs.

[Rob2012]

Denmark are in very hot water. Oh dear...

Link

[Rob2012]

Bosnia-Herzegovina 3-2 Turkey

Faroe Islands 1-2 Italy

Two strange results tonight!

[Faster]

Denmark are in very hot water. Oh dear...

Link

I don't see how, the Danish players did a better job than the security. This is what is wrong with football, the fan should have been taken off, the clock stopped and the match resumed with a Swedish penalty. But oh no, the ref has to through a hissy-fit and walk off. In North American sport, there have been numerous incidents were fans have gone unto the playing surface and the refs don't call off the game and through a hissy-fit.

Look at the diving incident in Athens.

[Westfale]

I don't see how, the Danish players did a better job than the security. This is what is wrong with football, the fan should have been taken off, the clock stopped and the match resumed with a Swedish penalty. But oh no, the ref has to through a hissy-fit and walk off. In North American sport, there have been numerous incidents were fans have gone unto the playing surface and the refs don't call off the game and through a hissy-fit.

Look at the diving incident in Athens.

Are you seriuos???? Cant believe it. There was no alternative for Fandel. The "fan" attacked the Ref, he didnt just take a walk on the pitch. The stubbornness of Poulsen cost Denmark the vital point. I expect a heavy fine for Denmark and see them playing the next matches in front of empty stands.

[Rei]

ya, strange result for the world champion defender.. anyway don't care much how goals we scored last night.. it's a qualifier match, what really counts is the result.

Did you notice that among the "big" the ones with the toughest leagues (Italy, England and Spain) are those who faced the greatest difficulties in qualifying?

This should means something.

[arwebb]

There might be something in that, but the time to judge it is perhaps when the qualifying campaign is over. Anyway, I'm waiting for the English to be blamed for the incident in Copenhagen.

[Rei]

Anyway, I'm waiting for the English to be blamed for the incident in Copenhagen.

It sounds fair to me! j/k

[Olympian2004]

Are any of the other Germans and German fans feeling bad for San Marino right now, Simoncini gets sent off and boom, 4 goals, including 2 by subs.

Well, yes -- in a way I felt sorry because San Marino did an outstanding job disturbing the German play in the first half. But nevertheless, it was highly necessary that Germany scored those goals -- because otherwise we would have had the same self-destructive debates like after the desastrous friendly against Italy in March 2006. There's a much more important Euro qualifier this Wednesday against Slovakia -- and the team needs confidence for that.

[Faster]

Are you seriuos???? Cant believe it. There was no alternative for Fandel. The "fan" attacked the Ref, he didnt just take a walk on the pitch. The stubbornness of Poulsen cost Denmark the vital point. I expect a heavy fine for Denmark and see them playing the next matches in front of empty stands.

Happened in North America during a baseball game, a coach got attacked. The umpires didn't call off the game because of it, they dealt with it.

The team has no control over the actions of fans and shouldn't be held responsible. This is utter bullsh!t.

[Rob2012]

No, you're wrong Faster.

The referee was perfectly within his right to abandon the match. Most referees would do the same (my Dad refs Sunday league and said if anyone tried that in one of his matches he'd do exactly the same thing, and let the FA deal with the consequences). Saying he had a hissy-fit is dumb; he was attacked by a fan! That's the sort of thing someone would say about a referee if he sent a player off who'd sworn at him. Using the same language to describe a man who'd nearly been knocked out is not appropriate. Refs have a hard enough time as it is without decisions based on their own personal safety being belittled. If the ref felt unsafe at that moment, then he made the right decision. It is as simple as that.

The ref and his decision to abandon musn't be made a scapegoat for whatever UEFA decide to do regarding the result; the only person to blame was the prat who came on the pitch. End of.

[Faster]

No, you're wrong Faster.

The referee was perfectly within his right to abandon the match. Most referees would do the same (my Dad refs Sunday league and said if anyone tried that in one of his matches he'd do exactly the same thing, and let the FA deal with the consequences). Saying he had a hissy-fit is dumb; he was attacked by a fan! That's the sort of thing someone would say about a referee if he sent a player off who'd sworn at him. Using the same language to describe a man who'd nearly been knocked out is not appropriate. Refs have a hard enough time as it is without decisions based on their own personal safety being belittled. If the ref felt unsafe at that moment, then he made the right decision. It is as simple as that.

The ref and his decision to abandon musn't be made a scapegoat for whatever UEFA decide to do regarding the result; the only person to blame was the prat who came on the pitch. End of.

I am not wrong, European soccer does not have the right attitude or methods in place to deal with fan excursions onto the playing surface. In recent memory, it has happened in every major league in NA and the game was never abandoned.

Now because of one hissy-fit and a drunked fan Denmark is pretty much assured of a second straight major tournament without an apperance.

I disagree with so many things about this.

1) Deal with the fan and get on with the match, no pussy-footing nor hissy-fitting

2) Denmark is getting screwed over because of 1 fan after they fought back from 3-0 down to tie the game 3-3

3) A team that has no control over the incident, and in fact responded to the incident better than the match officials is getting punished for the actions of one person. The Danish national side has no control over security, fan control and the like and shouldn't be held responsible when it fails.

[Rob2012]

1) Deal with the fan and get on with the match, no pussy-footing nor hissy-fitting

Hissy-fit it was not. If you're going to argue on those terms there's no point. The ref almost got assaulted. No ref should have to put up with that. If he feared for his safety, which he obviously did, who the hell are you to tell him he made a wrong decision?

Denmark is getting screwed over because of 1 fan after they fought back from 3-0 down to tie the game 3-3

Not necessarily. UEFA may yet decide that you're right, and and nothing could be done about it. A Spurs "fan" ran onto the pitch at White Hart Lane and tried to assult Frank Lampard earlier this season. However, the club weren't even fined as the FA decided that all reasonable action was taken to prevent this from happening - i.e. the stewarding was up to standard. If a similar decision is made in this case, they may let the result stand or play out the last few minutes at a later date.

Let's get one thing straight, I agree with you that that the Danish team shouldn't have to suffer because of a drunk, especially if the stewarding was up to standard. If it wasn't up to standard, a debate needs to be had as to whether Denmark's poor security and fan behaivour warrants an automatic win to Sweden. A hit like this may encourage the Danish FA to rethink how they do things. I understand and share your ideal; you don't want results decided by outside factors. But **** happens in the real world, and sport cannot be easily seperated from that, as much as we wish it could. I wish there were an easy way of resolving this but there isn't....

Playing on was not an option in the ref's mind, and I respect that decision. This seems to be the main point of contention between you and I. We're both saddened that UEFA will have to sort this mess out in one way or another rather than the result being decided on the pitch, but unlike you, I can understand exactly why the ref stopped the game and I'm not going to villify him for his decision. For me, the referee's perception (fear) that he was under genuine threat comes above the messy ramifications of his abandoning a match. For you, it seems, it's the other way around.

[Faster]

Just because one fan runs at him onto the pitch and runs at you doesn't mean another one will.

I disagree with the refs decision because of an incident in the MLB a couple of years ago when two fans ran unto the field and physically assaulted the 1st base coach. The game wasn't called off, the fans were dealt with and the game went on, all-be-it with that coach on his way to the hospital. To me is a massive over-reaction by a drama queen of a ref.

[Rob2012]

As I've already said, my Father, and his friends who referee Sunday League, say they'd do exactly the same in that situation. And a few more just for good measure...

The opinions of people who actually know what they're talking about - a thread on the incident in a Referees' forum

Interesting that none of them agree with you Faster and all of them agree with the ref's decision. These are people who understand the pressures involved and aren't just speaking from the comfort of their living rooms.

So all refs are drama queens are they?

And another thread from the same forum regarding an incident in an U16s match

I have always had a rule of not doing junior football due to the behaviour of parents. Last weekend I relaxed my rule after I wasked asked to referee at an U16 "friendly" tournament. I've now re-inforced my self imposed ban, after the incident described below.

I got through all 6 group games and the first semi-final with no problems at all, not even a caution (games were 7.5 minutes each way). Then in the second semi-final I awarded a free kick to blues on the edge of red's penalty area. As I started to line up the wall I noticed handbags between the red keeper and blue striker. I got this sorted and went back to get the wall back. As I glanced back at the goal again to make sure all was OK I noticed the striker elbow then kick the keeper. I sprinted over but by this point I had approx 20 non-players on the pitch. All of the players were squabbling, pushing and shoving, so I showed a red card to the offending player. By this point even more team officials and spectators were on the pitch and I was being confronted about the decision.

A guy in his forties then grabbed both my arms and started shouting abuse at me. As I tried to get clear of him he grabbed hold of my face with both hands and pushed me to the ground. I immediately got up, sprinted away, and decided that the game was abandoned.

In credit to the tournament organisers they got around me and stopped anyone coming near. After a few minutes they asked me to point out who had assaulted me, but by this point he had scarpered. As we looked for him two parents came over with their kids in tow. The first said "Well done ref, you've ruined all these kid's days". I explained that I had been assaulted and therefore had no choice but to abandon. I could have added, but didn't, that I wasn't the one that had ruined their day! The second parent then said, in front of his kid, "well you deserved it cos you got the decision wrong". At that point I got straight in the car and got out of there.

Let's face it, what hope have kids got when they hear their parents say that it's OK to assault a ref because he gets a decision wrong? I've obviously reported all of these events to the CFA, but unfortunately I only have the team name and not the name of the player or spectator, so I doubt anything will happen. Which makes me worry that another unlucky referee will come across the same problems next season.

I know the security situations are both very different but the laws are the same and if the ref feels fear, even if that fear with hindsight proves to be unfounded, he has to do what he thinks is right for his own safety and the safety of the players. I'm afraid Faster, your attitude is the same as the first parent who after the assault on the referee and the abandonment said "Well done ref, you've ruined all these kid's days".

[arwebb]

It sounds fair to me! j/k

Thought it might, especially when UEFA pass the buck in such shameful manner as they have again today.

[Fox334]

I agree whit Rob. Being a referee myself, I agree whit the ref's decision. Calling off a soccer game is a decision that is entirely up to the ref, and I would have done the exact same thing in this situation. This is not diving or baseball, and it wasn't a coach that was attacked.

[Faster]

I agree whit Rob. Being a referee myself, I agree whit the ref's decision. Calling off a soccer game is a decision that is entirely up to the ref, and I would have done the exact same thing in this situation. This is not diving or baseball, and it wasn't a coach that was attacked.

If this happened in professional baseball, hockey, football, or basketball the result would not have been the same. Even if the ref got injured.

[Olympian2004]

If this happened in professional baseball, hockey, football, or basketball the result would not have been the same. Even if the ref got injured.

But this is soccer and I care a damn about how they handle that problem in other sports. You may think what you like about the referee's decision -- but it was in accordance with the rules. And that doesn't give you the right to attack Fandel personally and call him a "drama queen". I'd like to see your reaction if you were attacked while doing your job.

[Rob2012]

If this happened in professional baseball, hockey, football, or basketball the result would not have been the same. Even if the ref got injured.

Another reason for me not to watch these sports.

[AtlantaJeff]

Currently debating whether or not to bother and try to watch England battle THE MIGHTY ESTONIA tomorrow. Only match available on the US from what I can tell is France against Georgia, which doesn't do much for me.

It's wild to think it's a year to go at this point to Euro 2008. It seems like it should be here already.

[Westfale]

Euro 2008 - Group A (qualifiers) Times CEST

15:00 Kazakhstan ? - ? Azerbaijan

17:30 Armenia ? - ? Poland

19:15 Finland ? - ? Belgium

Euro 2008 - Group B (qualifiers)

18:15 Faroe Islands ? - ? Scotland

20:45 Lithuania ? - ? Italy

21:00 France ? - ? Georgia

Euro 2008 - Group C (qualifiers)

19:00 Norway ? - ? Hungary

20:15 Bosnia-Herzegovina ? - ? Malta

20:30 Greece ? - ? Moldova

Euro 2008 - Group D (qualifiers)

20:30 Germany ? - ? Slovakia

Euro 2008 - Group E (qualifiers)

18:00 Andorra ? - ? Israel

20:30 Croatia ? - ? Russia

20:30 Estonia ? - ? England

Euro 2008 - Group F (qualifiers)

20:15 Sweden ? - ? Iceland

20:30 Latvia ? - ? Denmark

20:30 Liechtenstein ? - ? Spain

Euro 2008 - Group G (qualifiers)

19:00 Bulgaria ? - ? Belarus

20:00 Romania ? - ? Slovenia

20:15 Luxembourg ? - ? Albania

[Faster]

I am wondering how much trouble Lithuania is going to give Italy. Belgium should be all but eliminated by Finland. Norway needs to beat Hungary to keep their hopes alive.

[arwebb]

Scotland have kicked off against the Faroe Islands, 0-0 at the moment. Meanwhile, the talk over here is that it's bye bye McClaren if England don't get maximum points against Estonia this evening.