Olympic Torch And Torch Relay Route To Be Unveiled

[Stu]

By the way, zainhasan15, a piece of information you may found interesting. In 1964 the Olympic flame has visited Lahore, Pakistan. So 2008 will be the second Olympic flame visiting to your country!

There's the possibility that Pakistan would be one of the stops for the London torch relay too if they follow the Commonwealth theme that some people here have suggested.

[NY20??]

Don't like the design. Love the shape and colors, but those clouds should be more subtle. Perhaps it would have been better if they used the cloud design from the medal ribbons? Hope it grows on me.

Don't like the relay either. I find Athens’s relay to have more 'harmony' then Beijing's. Seems to me like they were trying to fit in five continents for the sake of going to all five continents and having novelty, with symbolic destinations, and the result was VERY random and unbalance. Should have been kept to Asia.

[zainhasan15]

In my opinion (I know it has no importance)

London 2012 should not repeat this tradation of "5 continent" relay, and relay should begain directly from Olympia and striaght to London, they should not use planes, ships and helicopters. From Olympia, Greece to Bulghria, Serbia, Hungery, Austria, Germany, Belgium, UK. All distance should be covered on land and majority by humans.

[baron-pierreIV]

In my opinion (I know it has no importance)

London 2012 should not repeat this tradation of "5 continent" relay, and relay should begain directly from Olympia and striaght to London, they should not use planes, ships and helicopters. From Olympia, Greece to Bulghria, Serbia, Hungery, Austria, Germany, Belgium, UK. All distance should be covered on land and majority by humans.

I doubt it.

I have advised Seb to do the "A-B-C..." route before another host city does it. A for Athens; B for Barcelona, etc., etc. and in that sequence to show the world the UK's best gift to the world - the English language!! I've advised them to NOT break the alphabetical sequence so people enrolled in TOEFL (English language classes) will NOT be confused as they follow the 2012's Torch's progress.

If the budget will not allow this, then just show it off in London's other famous landmark - the Underground. And don't tell the world the itinerary. To keep the terrorists off-guard!!

[Pui from HK]

I can't found any reason that Beijing 2008 Torch Relay will be the target of terrorism. Historically China is a Islam-friendly country, and now she still keeps this tradition. In fact the current Beijing city itself was planned and designed by a muslim named Chang Yuchuan some 700 years ago. There's a big Chinese-muslim community in Beijing. You can easily find HALAL foods here, every universities in Beijing (Beijing has more than 70 universities) have at least one muslim canteen.

In fact in China the relationship between Han Chinese (the majority population) and Muslim Chinese is very good, although their practice and diet is quite different. In China it is a common sense that if friends go out for dinner (or lunch) and there's a muslim within, then all will agree to find a muslim or vegetarian restaurant. If they can't find one, they will rather buy foods and go back to cook themselves.

The government is also highly aware of the practices of muslim. One very good example is that in the traditional Chinese calender this year is the year of pig. But under the advice of the All-China Islam Society, this year the goverenment required that the image of pig should not be used in new year celebrating advertistments and functions.

China has a very long history to do business with Islamic countries. This historical friendship still exists. For example in China when the relationship between Palestine and Isreal is mentioned, the Chinese practice is to called it "Palestine-Isreal relationship", which put Palestine frist, in order to show the support and sympathy towards Palestinian people.

Yet I can't understand why a torch relay in Pakistan can be related to "terrorism". Not like some countries who always view Islam as a source of conflict, we live with the muslim community in harmony, and I see no point that the Beijing 2008 torch relay will be a target for "terrorist".

[Pui from HK]

To zainhasan15. Here is a website with some pictures of the Nujie Mosque in Beijing. The history of this mosque can be traced to the Northern Song Dynasty (~11th century), and is famous for its Chinese style architecture.

I fail to post the pictures here. Please go to this website and to click on the image to enlarge it.

http://www.ndcnc.gov.cn/datalib/2004/ChinaBuild/DL/DL-46565

[mattperiolat]

My original fear was Al-Quida using the proximity of the Torch to Afghanistan as a chance to take a swing at the Relay, but the bigger issue is: extremists won't care how good China's relation is with Islam as long as they have a chance to advance their cause.

Sad fact, but in today's modern world, security is going to be responsibility #1 regardless of where the Relay goes and where the Games are held. I think Munich and Atlanta are still fresh enough in the collective memories to warrent it, plus other cases.

I can't found any reason that Beijing 2008 Torch Relay will be the target of terrorism. Historically China is a Islam-friendly country, and now she still keeps this tradition. In fact the current Beijing city itself was planned and designed by a muslim named Chang Yuchuan some 700 years ago. There's a big Chinese-muslim community in Beijing. You can easily find HALAL foods here, every universities in Beijing (Beijing has more than 70 universities) have at least one muslim canteen.

In fact in China the relationship between Han Chinese (the majority population) and Muslim Chinese is very good, although their practice and diet is quite different. In China it is a common sense that if friends go out for dinner (or lunch) and there's a muslim within, then all will agree to find a muslim or vegetarian restaurant. If they can't find one, they will rather buy foods and go back to cook themselves.

The government is also highly aware of the practices of muslim. One very good example is that in the traditional Chinese calender this year is the year of pig. But under the advice of the All-China Islam Society, this year the goverenment required that the image of pig should not be used in new year celebrating advertistments and functions.

China has a very long history to do business with Islamic countries. This historical friendship still exists. For example in China when the relationship between Palestine and Isreal is mentioned, the Chinese practice is to called it "Palestine-Isreal relationship", which put Palestine frist, in order to show the support and sympathy towards Palestinian people.

Yet I can't understand why a torch relay in Pakistan can be related to "terrorism". Not like some countries who always view Islam as a source of conflict, we live with the muslim community in harmony, and I see no point that the Beijing 2008 torch relay will be a target for "terrorist".

[zainhasan15]

To zainhasan15. Here is a website with some pictures of the Nujie Mosque in Beijing. The history of this mosque can be traced to the Northern Song Dynasty (~11th century), and is famous for its Chinese style architecture.

I fail to post the pictures here. Please go to this website and to click on the image to enlarge it.

http://www.ndcnc.gov.cn/datalib/2004/ChinaBuild/DL/DL-46565

Thanks dear,

Yes I saw the photos, mosque is very intersting but due to Chinese architecture it is looking Temple rather than a mosque, but this is becaues of religious and cultural diversoity, Religions should not limited to borders and tradation. Religion is all about belive and faith.

I am happy that Chinese people care for every religion, faith, nationality and language.

[zainhasan15]

My original fear was Al-Quida using the proximity of the Torch to Afghanistan as a chance to take a swing at the Relay, but the bigger issue is: extremists won't care how good China's relation is with Islam as long as they have a chance to advance their cause.

Sad fact, but in today's modern world, security is going to be responsibility #1 regardless of where the Relay goes and where the Games are held. I think Munich and Atlanta are still fresh enough in the collective memories to warrent it, plus other cases.

Oh God, you are still thing about terrosim risks behid Torch Relay in Pakistan. Do you think Pakistani and Chinese authorities will ignore this fact? Do you thin Pakistan is the only enemy of Al-quidaa? Infact Al-Qaida is nothing but lam-excuse of Western world, when-ever some acccident, bomblasting or kidnapping happen in the world every one shouts "Al-Qaida" "Al-Qaida", do you who are Al-Qaidasss? They were poor Afghanian group leaders and after Afghan-US war all of them, poor Talibans, Al-Qaidans, Afghanis all died in Caves, Infact USA is the biggest Terroist of all, US killed up thosands and thosands of inocent children, women, olders, Men and women, docters, engineers, teachers, Christans, Hindus, Muslims and Leaders of Nations. So why are you afraid of Al-Qaida? just becaues Afghanistan is Pakistans' neighbour? you should be afraid of USA, it is the most powerful terrorist.

And Pakistan knows very well that how to treat political and International events. Dont worry about terrorism in TORCH Islamabad, We will manage all Insha Allah.

[zainhasan15]

I can't found any reason that Beijing 2008 Torch Relay will be the target of terrorism. Historically China is a Islam-friendly country, and now she still keeps this tradition. In fact the current Beijing city itself was planned and designed by a muslim named Chang Yuchuan some 700 years ago. There's a big Chinese-muslim community in Beijing. You can easily find HALAL foods here, every universities in Beijing (Beijing has more than 70 universities) have at least one muslim canteen.

In fact in China the relationship between Han Chinese (the majority population) and Muslim Chinese is very good, although their practice and diet is quite different. In China it is a common sense that if friends go out for dinner (or lunch) and there's a muslim within, then all will agree to find a muslim or vegetarian restaurant. If they can't find one, they will rather buy foods and go back to cook themselves.

The government is also highly aware of the practices of muslim. One very good example is that in the traditional Chinese calender this year is the year of pig. But under the advice of the All-China Islam Society, this year the goverenment required that the image of pig should not be used in new year celebrating advertistments and functions.

China has a very long history to do business with Islamic countries. This historical friendship still exists. For example in China when the relationship between Palestine and Isreal is mentioned, the Chinese practice is to called it "Palestine-Isreal relationship", which put Palestine frist, in order to show the support and sympathy towards Palestinian people.

Yet I can't understand why a torch relay in Pakistan can be related to "terrorism". Not like some countries who always view Islam as a source of conflict, we live with the muslim community in harmony, and I see no point that the Beijing 2008 torch relay will be a target for "terrorist".

Thanks Pui, Do you know most of Pakistanis are extermly hospitable to Forigners, they can give thier houses and meals to forigners free of cost just for thier comfort. But Afghan refugees living in Noth West Frointer Provience are usually allergic to forigners due to Afghan war, But they are limited to border areas only, they are not citizens of Pakistan, and Pakistani Goverment is continously deporting them to thier country.

Islam is a religion of peace, equality and friendship, that is why constitution of Pakistan give equal rights and independence of worship to non-muslims too. I appericate your each and every word in favour of Pakistan and citizens of Pakistan, I am very happy that not just both Goverments are friends but citizens of both the countries are friend too. Thank You so much.

ONE WORLD, ONE DREAM

[mattperiolat]

Um, no, I'm not. Maybe I'm not being clear. I said I WAS, I have changed my mind. The Relay is at no greater terrorism risk in Islamabad than it is in San Francisco, London or any other significant city.

I'm done with the discussion of terrorism and the Olympics as a whole. It's clear nothing further can come from the debate, so let's just get back to discussing the Relay as a whole.

Oh God, you are still thing about terrosim risks behid Torch Relay in Pakistan. Do you think Pakistani and Chinese authorities will ignore this fact? Do you thin Pakistan is the only enemy of Al-quidaa? Infact Al-Qaida is nothing but lam-excuse of Western world, when-ever some acccident, bomblasting or kidnapping happen in the world every one shouts "Al-Qaida" "Al-Qaida", do you who are Al-Qaidasss? They were poor Afghanian group leaders and after Afghan-US war all of them, poor Talibans, Al-Qaidans, Afghanis all died in Caves, Infact USA is the biggest Terroist of all, US killed up thosands and thosands of inocent children, women, olders, Men and women, docters, engineers, teachers, Christans, Hindus, Muslims and Leaders of Nations. So why are you afraid of Al-Qaida? just becaues Afghanistan is Pakistans' neighbour? you should be afraid of USA, it is the most powerful terrorist.

And Pakistan knows very well that how to treat political and International events. Dont worry about terrorism in TORCH Islamabad, We will manage all Insha Allah.

[baron-pierreIV]

Oh God, you are still thing about terrosim risks behid Torch Relay in Pakistan. Do you think Pakistani and Chinese authorities will ignore this fact? Do you thin Pakistan is the only enemy of Al-quidaa? Infact Al-Qaida is nothing but lam-excuse of Western world, when-ever some acccident, bomblasting or kidnapping happen in the world every one shouts "Al-Qaida" "Al-Qaida", do you who are Al-Qaidasss? They were poor Afghanian group leaders and after Afghan-US war all of them, poor Talibans, Al-Qaidans, Afghanis all died in Caves, Infact USA is the biggest Terroist of all, US killed up thosands and thosands of inocent children, women, olders, Men and women, docters, engineers, teachers, Christans, Hindus, Muslims and Leaders of Nations. So why are you afraid of Al-Qaida? just becaues Afghanistan is Pakistans' neighbour? you should be afraid of USA, it is the most powerful terrorist.

And Pakistan knows very well that how to treat political and International events. Dont worry about terrorism in TORCH Islamabad, We will manage all Insha Allah.

BALONEY, Zain.

Islam is NOT a religion, It is a 'cult' for zombies. I started reading the Koran, and right in its first chapter, it says that 'this book is NOT to be questioned.' I stopped reading right there and now I understand what morons people are who swallow that bull, hook, line and sinker. Enuf said.

[Faster]

The relay is a target for terrorism, in Islamabad, in Mumbai, in Dar Es Salaam, in London and in Paris, it would not be surprising to see the torch attacked in Paris because France is one country that has not been hit that was and still is an original target of Al Qaeda, the others being Italy, Germany, Japan and Canada (Australia was hit by proxy in Bali). The other four have all had terrorist attacks and they are a major problem in Pakistan. Pakistan is classified as a failed state, security in the country is not that great and it would be a good place to attack. Dar Es Salaam was attacked in 1997, Mumbai multiple times include 2006 and London in 2005. But you can not compare a country with a minor Islamist problem like the UK or USA to a country where the Islamist are being bread and created like Pakistan. Pakistan is one of the worst states for terrorism, far out-pacing any western country with minor Muslim populations and countries like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and others that are well known producers of terrorism.

[nykfan845]

BALONEY, Zain.

Islam is NOT a religion, It is a 'cult' for zombies. I started reading the Koran, and right in its first chapter, it says that 'this book is NOT to be questioned.' I stopped reading right there and now I understand what morons people are who swallow that bull, hook, line and sinker. Enuf said.

You disgust me.

[baron-pierreIV]

Because I speak the truth? Then so be it.

Here it is, from the Penguin Classics version:

"Chapter Title: The Cow

Subtitle: In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the merciful

Text: Alif something-something. (I cannot recreate the Arabic diacritical marks) This Book is not to be doubted." Right there. It entraps impressionable minds. It claims it is infallible; not to be quesioned, but followed blindly. Then that's why you have an inexhuastible supply of suicide bombers.

I rest my case.

[nykfan845]

God, your ignorance is embarrassing. It makes my skin crawl to know that there are people like you that has such general hate towards a people.

[Xu Wen-Ting]

Thanks XU WEN, Pakistan has...

by the way,"Xu" is my famliy name,and "Wen-Ting"is my given name.

so you could call me "Wen-Ting"

"Xu Wen"sound strange.

haha

[baron-pierreIV]

God, your ignorance is embarrassing. It makes my skin crawl to know that there are people like you that has such general hate towards a people.

uhmmm....have you even tried reading the Koran?

As for 'hate' -- no; I reserve 'hate' for my greatest enemies. It is actually contempt and utter incredulity that I look at islamic people. How so many people can be duped and made to believe it is a 'religion of peace' when deeds actually say so otherwise. And when the more responsible parties in islam stand up and get counted and CONDEMN and turn in their own -- and ACTUALLY say, "Ours is NOT the only way," will I raise my hat and respect that phony set of beliefs. (Sorry, TG, but Zain provoked me again.)

As for you nykfan845 -- I really think we have nothing else to discuss. BTW, I don't want to see your skin crawling around my house. Kindly keep it under cover.

[zainhasan15]

I was expecting exactly this type of reaction, I was feeling angry becaues Mattperoat was raising objections on my country, but now your situation is same.

BALONEY, Zain.

Islam is NOT a religion, It is a 'cult' for zombies. I started reading the Koran, and right in its first chapter, it says that 'this book is NOT to be questioned.' I stopped reading right there and now I understand what morons people are who swallow that bull, hook, line and sinker. Enuf said.

Oh Mr. Baron, Quran is a book of God and it needs explanation even for Muslims, becaues it is not like a story, If you don't the histroy and basic concepts than you cant understand the meaning of a single line, Quran is not a Harry Porter's series.

This Book is the last edition of 4 Books (Including Bible). God sent 1st book to Europian Nation through his prophet (messenger) but people living there made changes in the text for thier own sake so after gap of some hunder years God sent another book to Egypt through Mosas (p.b.u.h) and Egyptians did the same so God sent another set of teaching (Bible) to Europe through his messenger Jesus (p.b.u.h) and his nation did the same and finally God sent Quran the to Arab through Muhmmad (p.b.u.h) and God declared in his last book that I will take care of its purity by myself, no one will be able to change its text becaues this is the last Book and this book is not to be Questioned.

Baron if you are still unsatisfied, provide me exact versa name of chapter 1.

Muslims Belive on only 1 God Allah and we belive that there will be no messenger after Muhmmad (p.b.u.h) and there will be no Book of God after Quran, we still do belive on Bible, Tourah, Anjile and you can see that in Quran most of the stories of previous times are exactly same as it is in Bible, like history of Marry (p.b..u.h) and Jesus (p.b.u.h) , history of Egypt, Paraoh and Moses (p.b.u.h)

How can Islam promote terrorism if Islam teaches us that murder of a single human is a murder of whole humanity, "he is not among us who hurts others either phsyically or through tongue." Islam teaches us equality, brotherhood, and peace and we perform these things physically n daily prayers, we give proof of brotherhood, equality of humanity, and peace in Annual Hajj pilgrimage.

And if you think Islam is not a religion or cult for zombies what ever, than this is your manners and religous teachings.

The relay is a target for terrorism, in Islamabad, in Mumbai, in Dar Es Salaam, in London and in Paris, it would not be surprising to see the torch attacked in Paris because France is one country that has not been hit that was and still is an original target of Al Qaeda, the others being Italy, Germany, Japan and Canada (Australia was hit by proxy in Bali). The other four have all had terrorist attacks and they are a major problem in Pakistan. Pakistan is classified as a failed state, security in the country is not that great and it would be a good place to attack. Dar Es Salaam was attacked in 1997, Mumbai multiple times include 2006 and London in 2005. But you can not compare a country with a minor Islamist problem like the UK or USA to a country where the Islamist are being bread and created like Pakistan. Pakistan is one of the worst states for terrorism, far out-pacing any western country with minor Muslim populations and countries like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and others that are well known producers of terrorism.

Hmmmmm.............................what can I say now? Ok, go and report to UN that what kind of difficulties and problem Pakistan is facing, and yes you can do one more thing, ask BOCOG to cancel stop-over of Olympic flame in Islamabad and make a new stop where ever you are living now a days (safest place of Globe).

[cfm Jeremie]

The relay is a target for terrorism, in Islamabad, in Mumbai, in Dar Es Salaam, in London and in Paris, it would not be surprising to see the torch attacked in Paris because France is one country that has not been hit that was and still is an original target of Al Qaeda, the others being Italy, Germany, Japan and Canada (Australia was hit by proxy in Bali). The other four have all had terrorist attacks and they are a major problem in Pakistan. Pakistan is classified as a failed state, security in the country is not that great and it would be a good place to attack. Dar Es Salaam was attacked in 1997, Mumbai multiple times include 2006 and London in 2005. But you can not compare a country with a minor Islamist problem like the UK or USA to a country where the Islamist are being bread and created like Pakistan. Pakistan is one of the worst states for terrorism, far out-pacing any western country with minor Muslim populations and countries like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and others that are well known producers of terrorism.

France was attacked in Karachi in Pakistan (a bus of French workers was bombed a few years ago).

[Ruling Czar]

Well, it is quite obvious, from the first glance of the 2008 Olympic flame route that china is prepared to use the Olympics as a means of redefining its importance in the Global arena. Unlike other - mostly - Pan Atlantic - olympic flame relays of the past, it is clear that china is using the Pan Pacific basin as a "Lose' basis for global attention. The olympic flame will not cross the atlantic ocean for the first time in Olympic flame relay history - I think?

Kindly correct me if I am wrong.

It is unfortunate that the flame will only touch one point on the north american continent. I thought Toronto used to have the largest concentration of chinese outside china? Indeed, that was made clear by newscasts around the world during the 2003 Sars outbreak. Did that change so fast?

[baron-pierreIV]

I thought Toronto used to have the largest concentration of chinese outside china? Indeed, that was made clear by newscasts around the world during the 2003 Sars outbreak. Did that change so fast?

Who really has the accurate count? I thought this was a statistic Toronto kept harping on to advance its own Summer Games ambitions. But obviously, NBC and the SF Chinese have more influence with Beijing. I hear they got great input from NBC and me. Which is why SF will offer great photo OPPS of the Torch Relay: by SF's beautiful Beaux Artes Civic Center (where the Asian Art Museum is located); by the famous "Flower Drum" gate on Bush (he-he) and Grant Streets; photopps with 2 telegenic personailites: the effete Gavin Newsom and over-the-hill movie star, Gov. Schwarznegger; on a SF Cable Car (calling Rice-A-Roni); by the TransAmerican building; crossing the Golden Gate bridge -- priceless; and then passing my house!!

[Faster]

France was attacked in Karachi in Pakistan (a bus of French workers was bombed a few years ago).

I stand corrected, but that is not close to what has happened to Spain, Australia, the UK and the United States.

[woohoo]

Because I speak the truth? Then so be it.

Here it is, from the Penguin Classics version:

"Chapter Title: The Cow

Subtitle: In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the merciful

Text: Alif something-something. (I cannot recreate the Arabic diacritical marks) This Book is not to be doubted." Right there. It entraps impressionable minds. It claims it is infallible; not to be quesioned, but followed blindly. Then that's why you have an inexhuastible supply of suicide bombers.

I rest my case.

It's not as if the bible doesn't have its swarms of "blind followers"

All religion, when taken to an extreme, creates a culture of self repressive0 "'zombies'".

[zainhasan15]

Because I speak the truth? Then so be it.

Here it is, from the Penguin Classics version:

"Chapter Title: The Cow

Subtitle: In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the merciful

Text: Alif something-something. (I cannot recreate the Arabic diacritical marks) This Book is not to be doubted." Right there. It entraps impressionable minds. It claims it is infallible; not to be quesioned, but followed blindly. Then that's why you have an inexhuastible supply of suicide bombers.

I rest my case.

Mr. Baron, Are you Ok? read it carefully

002.001 Alif. Lam. Mim.

002.002 "This is the Scripture whereof there is no doubt, a guidance unto those who ward off (evil)."

002.003 Who believe in the Unseen, and establish worship, and spend of that We have bestowed upon them;

002.004 And who believe in that which is revealed unto thee (Muhammad) and that which was revealed before thee, and are certain of the Hereafter.

002.005 These depend on guidance from their Lord. These are the successful.

002.006 As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not.

002.007 Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom.

002.008 And of mankind are some who say: We believe in Allah and the Last Day, when they believe not.

002.009 They think to beguile Allah and those who believe, and they beguile none save themselves; but they perceive not.

002.010 In their hearts is a disease, and Allah increaseth their disease. A painful doom is theirs because they lie.

002.011 And when it is said unto them: Make not mischief in the earth, they say: We are peacemakers only.

002.012 Are not they indeed the mischief-makers ? But they perceive not.

002.013 And when it is said unto them: believe as the people believe, they say: shall we believe as the foolish believe ? are not they indeed the foolish ? But they know not.

002.014 And when they fall in with those who believe, they say: We believe; but when they go apart to their devils they declare: Lo! we are with you; verily we did but mock.

002.015 Allah (Himself) doth mock them, leaving them to wander blindly on in their contumacy.

002.016 These are they who purchase error at the price of guidance, so their commerce doth not prosper, neither are they guided.

002.017 Their likeness is as the likeness of one who kindleth fire, and when it sheddeth its light around him Allah taketh away their light and leaveth them in darkness, where they cannot see,

002.018 Deaf, dumb and blind; and they return not.

My dear, your native language is english, but still you can't exactly read, and understand it ? what is the problem in above mentioned text? These are the few lines from Surah Baqra, Chapter 1. Do you think these lines are promoting Muslims to spread terrorism? do you think these lines are asking to follow Quran blindly? Do you think Quran is guiding for suiside bombings?

This is a book of Lord, and this text has came from skies, This script is for those who belive in it and there is no doubt in it.