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Olympic Torch And Torch Relay Route To Be Unveiled


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First the torch _ lovely design! I love the colour, like the cloud embossing, like the paper roll concept. It just screams China! Indeed, I'm very impressed with all the "look of the games" and design work for Beijing so far.

Thee relay? I also agree with CAF. I'm just not in favour of all this continent hopping (and especially with such short and seemingly random stops this time). For Athens it was fair enough, it was a statement about the history of the games, but this time, enough already! This is an Asian games, it should have been confined to a land route across Asia.

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That I did. It was a little complicated in that, unless you are some sort of pyrotechnic engineer or whatever would be the closest field, including the technical inner workings of a 'Torch' is a little difficult to render credibly.

The details of the competition were posted on their website.

But I am not surprised by the results. Beijing's 'Ceremonial / Peripheral' ideas/designs are all 'design by Committee' (i.e., 'borrowed' designs from the submissions). People here know that I was consulted for Ceremonial costings by a US TV-producer who 'supposedly was asked to submit a bid' when BOCOG put out the international tender for Ceremonies' production companies.

Back then (a little over a year ago), he was already complaining that BOCOG sort of was not very subtle about it; that regardless of who submitted what, BOCOG felt it was free to 'pick and choose' ideas/personnel from the many suibmissions around the world -- rather contrary to the Western concept of 'ideas for hire' -- you get paid or compensated for intellectual brain-storming that you do.

In short, I never forgot which country produces the highest number of 'pirated' copies of Western movies and CDs? You guessed it. It's 'piracy' on an Olympic scale this time. :)

Yeah, I've found the details but I didn't took a good look at them, it was too late anyways. The technical/combustion engineering part is what deviates me from actually submitting a proposal in the future. I'm more into design...

Oh, and that "idea borrowing" isn't surprising... at all ;) In the end, China (the Central Committee, more specifically) need to display all the credits, even those that are not they own.

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Almaty (April 2)

Istanbul, (April 3)

St. Petersburg (April 5)

London (April 6)

Paris (April 7)

San Francisco (April 9)

Buenos Aires (April 11)

Dar es Salaam (April 13)

Muscat (April 15)

Islamabad (April 16)

Mumbai (April 17)

Bangkok (April 19)

Kuala Lumpur (April 21)

Jakarta (April 22)

Canberra (April 24)

Nagano (April 26)

Seoul (April 27)

Pyongyang (April 28)

Ho Chi Minh City (April 30)

Taipei (May 1)

Hong Kong (May 2)

Macau (May 3)

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Thee relay? I also agree with CAF. I'm just not in favour of all this continent hopping (and especially with such short and seemingly random stops this time). For Athens it was fair enough, it was a statement about the history of the games, but this time, enough already! This is an Asian games, it should have been confined to a land route across Asia.

Hmmm...but it is not just 'an Asian games' is it? The Olympics are a world-wide sporting event that belong to every continent not just the one in which they are being staged.I actually approve of the tradition of the flame touching the soil of each of the 5 continents.The Olympic symbol is made up of the 5 rings after all! B)

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Hmmm...but it is not just 'an Asian games' is it? The Olympics are a world-wide sporting event that belong to every continent not just the one in which they are being staged.I actually approve of the tradition of the flame touching the soil of each of the 5 continents.The Olympic symbol is made up of the 5 rings after all! B)

But is it tradition? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's only happened once, for Athens. Sydney's, for example, made a point of being a very Oceanian relay rather than go to every continent. Sure, it's an event for the world, and the world's athletes will be there and we'll all be watching, but it's usually a far bigger deal for the host and then the host's region. If each games was more about being part of the world rather than the hiost country country or region, why are we so onsessed with hopes that Africa or South America get them soon _ it wouldn't matter then, whoever's hosting them could be said to also be hosting them on Africa's or South America's behalf.

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But is it tradition? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's only happened once, for Athens. Sydney's, for example, made a point of being a very Oceanian relay rather than go to every continent.

Did it? I had the impression that it was a tradition for the flame to visit each of the 5 continents.Okay then,but I still like the idea.To me,it's just so symbolic of the 5 rings and the worldwide appeal and relevance of the Olympics.

Sure, it's an event for the world, and the world's athletes will be there and we'll all be watching, but it's usually a far bigger deal for the host and then the host's region. If each games was more about being part of the world rather than the hiost country country or region, why are we so onsessed with hopes that Africa or South America get them soon _ it wouldn't matter then, whoever's hosting them could be said to also be hosting them on Africa's or South America's behalf.

Of course each Games is going to be of more practical relevance for the city and country that have been chosen to host them.And each Games reflects something of the flavour and tradition of said host city.It is supposed to be a two-way process isn't it with the Games being used to showcase the host city to the world and maybe provide some much needed regeneration (eg.London 2012) while providing the world (and more specifically the IOC) with a worldwide event that will enable the best athletes anywhere to showcase their talents and make themselves and their countries bask in the glory of their Olympic success.And we look forward to the day when cities from each of the 5 continents will be eligible to host because we look forward to seeing a Games that reflect the flavour of each continent and not just the favoured 2 or 3 as is current,while all the time providing an exciting sporting festival for the rest of the world. After all,if we treat each of the Games as just a parochial Asian or European affair depending on where the host city is located,then why not just invite athletes from that continent to compete and ignore the rest? But that's not what the Olympic movenment is supposed to be about,is it?

I must say I find it a little strange to be defending the worldwide nature of the Olympic movement to an enthusiastic and knowledgeable veteran of these boards like yourself.I confess to being a bit of an internationalist and idealist at heart which is what I like about the ideals of the Olympic movement no matter how far the reality may fail to match!! B)

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The way I see it, the games are the international thing, it's what everyone focusses on and watches. The relay is more the pre-event marketing _ it's not like it gets breathless day-to-day coverage in anything but the host country press (and even then, in a long relay, the coverage starts to lose interest unless they have a exceptionall phot-worthy stop of some fairly high-profile torch bearer has their go). It's more a thing for the host country to start getting their excitement and anticipation levels up before the main event. Coverage in the rest of the world will probaably spike for events like Everest or Taiwan, but be ignored much beyond that.

When the torch comes to Canberra, for example, it's unlikely to get huge coverage. There'll be mentions, yes, but probably far less than the state-of-health of some expected local medal winner or complaints about team selections etc.

Anyway, it probably means more to the people in the likes of Vietnam, Malaysia, Pakistan (well, we've seen the reactionof Zainhasan) and the like that the torch is going through these countries when they've never experienced it before. Take Australia again _ this will be our third consecutive with our hands on the torch _ a bit of "been there, done that", and no way it could live up to the excitement and hype of the 200 relay anyway.

Maybe I'm just generally grumpy today _ I seem to be picking a few arguments today!

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i could understand some of you don't like the route.Manybe you think some cities shouldn't on the route list.

Some Chinese people may have the same feeling and standpoint.

i think China want to bring Olympic flame to many new place,new cities.Because people all over the world need the Olympic sprite,share the Olympic flame.

The people of these cities also hope they could see the Olympic torch relay.

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My top 15 torches

1. Sapporo 1972

2. Salt Lake City 2002

3. Albertville 1992

4. Sydney 2000

5. Lillehammer 1994

6. Beijing 2008

7. Oslo 1952

8. Berlin 1936

9. Munich 1972

10. Tokyo 1964

11. Sarajevo 1984

12. Nagano 1998

13. Innsbruck 1976

14. Rome 1960

15. Mexico 1968

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About the torch relay 2004. Wouldn't it be a bit stupid/weird to light the flame and have a torch relay just in Greece? Athens had to make an international relay. The Olympics born in Greece, re born in 1896, and come back in 2004. It's a great symbolism that the flame passes from all previous hosts and returns to Greece again.

I mean there is no reason for the next hosts to try to copy what Athens did, because it happens only once. Now London will make a torch relay in the Commonwealth countries, and if USA hosts in 2016 maybe the will make a relay in Mars.

On the other hand we do have the sponsors (Coca Cola, Visa, Lenovo) I don't think that the chinese market is small for their plans, why do they choose to visit '2nd row cities'?

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About the torch relay 2004. Wouldn't it be a bit stupid/weird to light the flame and have a torch relay just in Greece? Athens had to make an international relay. The Olympics born in Greece, re born in 1896, and come back in 2004. It's a great symbolism that the flame passes from all previous hosts and returns to Greece again.

I mean there is no reason for the next hosts to try to copy what Athens did, because it happens only once. Now London will make a torch relay in the Commonwealth countries, and if USA hosts in 2016 maybe the will make a relay in Mars.

On the other hand we do have the sponsors (Coca Cola, Visa, Lenovo) I don't think that the chinese market is small for their plans, why do they choose to visit '2nd row cities'?

My sentiments exactly. Athens was a special occasion _ the games were coming home _ and it was fitting that the relay take in past (and some possible future) hosts. And as you said, it would have been a tiny relay if it only went from Olympia then around Greece before coming to Athens.

Now that's been done, why do we need to repeat it? It makes more sense for the relay to make a statement of bringing Olympism to the wider region where the games are being held, rather than another jet-setting tour including cities and countries that have already hosted the flame on multiple occasions.

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Now that's been done, why do we need to repeat it? It makes more sense for the relay to make a statement of bringing Olympism to the wider region where the games are being held, rather than another jet-setting tour including cities and countries that have already hosted the flame on multiple occasions.

... I totally agree

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I don't mind so much non-Chinese cities, I just think better cities and more selective cities.

Some of them just don't make sense. If I was the route maker, I would go from Athens to Kiruchi to Lahore to Delhi to Mumbai to Kolkata to Dhaka to Bangkok to Phnom Penh to Ho Chi Minh City to Hanoi to Tokyo to Hiroshima to Seoul to Pyeongyang to China

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Why is everybody so WHINY about this Torch thing? I don't like the route, I don't like the flame, I don't like the face of the Chairman, etc., etc.

What you WHINY wusses don't understand is that BOCOG owns the torches that are going to be given away -- so it's their show. Sure, you're entitled to whine. BUt do you think it will change things any? You're like whiny Taiwan -- not wanting to be prt of that HKG - Macau loop -- yet, it makes the most sense route-wise. What does Taiwan want? After San Francisco, they'll fly the Torch back to Taipeh -- and then return it to Buenos Aires? :rolleyes: That makes even less sense that those of you whining -- why will it jump from Athens to Beijing? WHY NOT? A journey of a thousand miles begins with one little step -- and it symbolically and logically, a re-start in Beijing is JUST fine.

If you don't like it, then (i) skip the show; or (ii) write to BOCOG. Yeah, maybe they'll chnage the route for you. Look - I never complained and they designated my Bay Area to be the only place in North America where the '08 Torch will land! That'll teach you something.

Then some of you so quickly state: oh, I wonder when they are going to unveil the Torch-beare uniforms? :rolleyes: And as soon as they do that, you'll all come out with: I don't like the colours; or I don't like the design or some other cry-baby type thing. Why don't you wait for your own Olympics so you can design it to your taste? All your whining is getting pretty tiresome! :angry:

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Why is everybody so WHINY about this Torch thing? I don't like the route, I don't like the flame, I don't like the face of the Chairman, etc., etc.

What you WHINY wusses don't understand is that BOCOG owns the torches that are going to be given away -- so it's their show. Sure, you're entitled to whine. BUt do you think it will change things any? You're like whiny Taiwan -- not wanting to be prt of that HKG - Macau loop -- yet, it makes the most sense route-wise. What does Taiwan want? After San Francisco, they'll fly the Torch back to Taipeh -- and then return it to Buenos Aires? :rolleyes: That makes even less sense that those of you whining -- why will it jump from Athens to Beijing? WHY NOT? A journey of a thousand miles begins with one little step -- and it symbolically and logically, a re-start in Beijing is JUST fine.

If you don't like it, then (i) skip the show; or (ii) write to BOCOG. Yeah, maybe they'll chnage the route for you. Look - I never complained and they designated my Bay Area to be the only place in North America where the '08 Torch will land! That'll teach you something.

Then some of you so quickly state: oh, I wonder when they are going to unveil the Torch-beare uniforms? :rolleyes: And as soon as they do that, you'll all come out with: I don't like the colours; or I don't like the design or some other cry-baby type thing. Why don't you wait for your own Olympics so you can design it to your taste? All your whining is getting pretty tiresome! :angry:

Ladies and gentle men, dont discuss any thing here, becaues he is from BOCOG, or may be IOC's spy.

And for you Mr. Sans franssico, I never criticise Torch design, and 90% of public here is in favour of design, you can see my previous posts about torch.

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For me the torch should be carried by people the most of time/route and not by plane....

Excellent point. People should see the flame, not the clouds!

Maybe -where is possible- they should carry the flame from the land like what happen in Berlin 1936 when the flame travelled to Germany through Yugoslavia, Austria, Czechoslovakia etc.

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Why is everybody so WHINY about this Torch thing? I don't like the route, I don't like the flame, I don't like the face of the Chairman, etc., etc.

What you WHINY wusses don't understand is that BOCOG owns the torches that are going to be given away -- so it's their show. Sure, you're entitled to whine. BUt do you think it will change things any? You're like whiny Taiwan -- not wanting to be prt of that HKG - Macau loop -- yet, it makes the most sense route-wise. What does Taiwan want? After San Francisco, they'll fly the Torch back to Taipeh -- and then return it to Buenos Aires? :rolleyes: That makes even less sense that those of you whining -- why will it jump from Athens to Beijing? WHY NOT? A journey of a thousand miles begins with one little step -- and it symbolically and logically, a re-start in Beijing is JUST fine.

If you don't like it, then (i) skip the show; or (ii) write to BOCOG. Yeah, maybe they'll chnage the route for you. Look - I never complained and they designated my Bay Area to be the only place in North America where the '08 Torch will land! That'll teach you something.

Then some of you so quickly state: oh, I wonder when they are going to unveil the Torch-beare uniforms? :rolleyes: And as soon as they do that, you'll all come out with: I don't like the colours; or I don't like the design or some other cry-baby type thing. Why don't you wait for your own Olympics so you can design it to your taste? All your whining is getting pretty tiresome! :angry:

Honestly, i never complained of the torch or the route. The only ones who anger me are Taiwan authorities, they are really acting like a babies.

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Tasty coming from Mr. Boohoo they stole my design..

Uhmmm... I never quite said BOCOG stole my design. I said that was exactly the concept I submitted - a scroll. From the over 300 submissions, there may have been a few others with the same concept -- so I'll give BOCOG the benefit of the doubt. And I just moved on.

I also said I liked the final product in that it was very simple and ELEGANT. So, how could those stands be contradictory? It's just, OK, you express your dissatisfaction -- and unless it's seomthing realy, really VENAL like Ilanaaq which would be 2010's identity for years leading up to the Games PLUS for posterity -- the torch design just moves into the historical phase.

The complaining and NOT doing anything about it is what makes it soooooo tiresome.

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