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Asian Games 2018 !

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[quote name='Lord David' date='Jan 4 2008, 10:26 AM' post='145931'

As for Beijing, Beijing is the main host city, Hong Kong was probably chosen for Equestrian events due to historical ties with the sport, already existing sporting grounds and quite possibly the pollution factor came into account as well.

No, it wasn't . It was because of China's strict quarantine rules , I am not wrong. The orginal proposal was that the Equestrian events to be held in a Equestrian club in Beijing.

The Manila-Hiroshima bid won't get anywhere . It's most likely just a prelim bid just like Toronto in 2012. Its more likely that the JOC will go Tokyo again for 2020 if it loses . We all know how joint bids have flunk badly . Only Korea-Japan & Belgium-Netherlands have hosted sucessfully.

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What makes you think the Japanese National Committee will agree to this scenario? Why are they putting up Tokyo as their immediate Olympic candidate? Methinks this idea is only in some Filipino swimming official's mind WITHOUT (and with all the best intentions in the world) the slightest clue to the real (Olympic) world.

Well, I'm just putting up a possible scenario... and I don't think someone from the Philippine Amateur Swimming Association is irresponsible enough to post that on their website without the preliminary talks with between the Japanese Olympic Committee and the Philippine Olympic Committee currently going on. They are putting up Tokyo perhaps to test the "reclamation" plan and see how it will score in the Evaluation Commission. And I don't think they are expecting a victory: Rio would probably get the 2016 Games for sentimental reasons and the only way Tokyo will win is technically. But even so, Chicago would be leveraged to offer more if the IOC wants a technically viable bid. All I am saying is that the JOC wants the Philippines in its bid maybe because it wants to attract IOC members to vote sentimentally (if ever, it will be the many firsts: first time it will be held in a developing country, not to mention that it will be the first in a tropical as well; first time there will be a fusion of culture, first time the Opening and Closing ceremonies will be held in two different stadiums [but with identical designs]). I mean if the Japanese would be interested in the Philippines, I think they believe that the country could add culture and sentiments to their bid-- and in that fashion, possibly sway the votes to their favor.

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We all know how joint bids have flunk badly . Only Korea-Japan & Belgium-Netherlands have hosted sucessfully.

And that's because there really is reasonable physical proximity to justify the unusual set-up. Korea and Japan are probably about an hour away, flying time; Belgium and the Netherlands, u don't even have to fly. Whereas this strange Manila-Hiroshima scheme (IF indeed the Japanese side is willing to be the junior partner again), is at least 4 hours away by jet. (Longer travel also increases greater risk of losing teams in transit due to natural causes, malfunction or terrorism.)

Enoch (listen up or I'll start calling you eunuch ;) ), there is a MAJOR difference between different cities WITHIN the one, same host COUNTRY -- and other sites in somebody else's borders. Even within one country, there are turf wars between the various llocal aw enforcement agencies -- what more between 2 sovereign nations?

And EVEN granting that the bid makes it past the Short List, Japan agrees to be the junior partner, the dynamics of the whole pairing is quite untenable:

- Manila the 2nd most battered city in the world (after Warsaw) after World War II ( and the 2nd most bombed city by the Imperial Japanese Air Force after Pearl Harbor on that sneaky morning in December 1941)

- Hiroshima, the site of the first Atomic Bomb.

What a dichotomy!! Just something in that scenario tells me the JAPANESE Olympic Committee wouldn't touch this scheme with a 20-ft bamboo pole.

And even denying the juxtaposed history of the 2 cities and the 2 nations, wouldn't it be such a contrast for visitors, the world press to ask: Why, Hiroshima is so clean, so orderly (and Manila is so dirty, chaotic, polluted) -- why didn't they just hold it here? :blink: Why pair up with a teeming, chaotic metropolis? I think the contrasts would be most embarrassing for the Philippines.

Suggestion to Manila-Hiroshima planners: believe us when we say it's untenable. THe script is a NIGHTMARE; junk it and rework it totally.

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No, it wasn't . It was because of China's strict quarantine rules , I am not wrong. The orginal proposal was that the Equestrian events to be held in a Equestrian club in Beijing.

I think the IOC is concerned about the pollution in Beijing (which is worse than Manila's), and the health of the horses might be the primary concern. Plus the traffic in the crowded capital (could you imagine if all the events will be held in Beijing? Traffic jam all over!)

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Enoch, didn't u get it the first time? A joint bid AIN'T gonna happen.

What do you think the Continental Congress has staked for when they decided to "experiment" in the "presidential-federal thing" when all else in the world are monarchies? Your forefathers have staked your future and your great-great grand parents' future. I mean, sure, bi-national bids would be a concern by the IOC because its a new concept. But if they want a change on how the bids are going now, they should be willing to stake something and take a risk.

I will reserve my breath on whether bi-national bids are doomed to fail: that is for the 13th Olympic Congress to decide. But if ever they will decide not to tackle the issue and involve developing countries in the tropical region of the world, all that universality thing they are brandishing to the Olympic world would be dismissed as mere lip service.

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I think the IOC is concerned about the pollution in Beijing (which is worse than Manila's), and the health of the horses might be the primary concern. Plus the traffic in the crowded capital (could you imagine if all the events will be held in Beijing? Traffic jam all over!)

The reason Hong Kong was chosen to host the Equestrian events this year is: (1) being an island city, it would seem that such a move would protect the visiting horses from any possible SARS or similar outbreak (which would be nearly impossible to contain in the mainland); (2) there is more of an equestrian culture/following in Hong Kong than in the Beijing area -- so the horsey events would at least draw knowledgeable, enthusiastic crowds on their own. (Beijing will be pretty stretched filling all the stadia in the Beijing area with bodies who may not be true followers of the sports designated there. Traffic in Beijing was not an issue because the Comm. Party can always decree no private vehicles on the road on any given day -- and what traffic issue would you have?

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What do you think the Continental Congress has staked for when they decided to "experiment" in the "presidential-federal thing" when all else in the world are monarchies? Your forefathers have staked your future and your great-great grand parents' future. I mean, sure, bi-national bids would be a concern by the IOC because its a new concept. But if they want a change on how the bids are going now, they should be willing to stake something and take a risk.

I will reserve my breath on whether bi-national bids are doomed to fail: that is for the 13th Olympic Congress to decide. But if ever they will decide not to tackle the issue and involve developing countries in the tropical region of the world, all that universality thing they are brandishing to the Olympic world would be dismissed as mere lip service.

As has been noted before, why should the IOC (or FIFA or the IAAF) deal with multiple host committees when there is NO dearth of their desired one-city candidates wanting to put on their show? If you've never worked in an Olympic Games, then you would have some difficulty understanding this dynamic.

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And that's because there really is reasonable physical proximity to justify the unusual set-up. Korea and Japan are probably about an hour away, flying time; Belgium and the Netherlands, u don't even have to fly. Whereas this strange Manila-Hiroshima scheme (IF indeed the Japanese side is willing to be the junior partner again), is at least 4 hours away by jet. (Longer travel also increases greater risk of losing teams in transit due to natural causes, malfunction or terrorism.)

Oh common Baron, you are not going to quarter basketball athletes in Hiroshima for example if the basketball events are slated in Manila. There is no need to travel between the two cities if they are concerned for their security plus the fact that the Philippine-Japanese government could negotiate direct flights between Hiroshima and Manila International Airports. If ever athletes and spectators would travel between the two cities, it is purely for tourism reasons. I mean you know, don't think of burdening the athletes, please, with these "creative" thinking of quartering them in distant places and have them take a flight in order for them to attend their scheduled competitions. I mean, is this absurd or what? ;)

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Oh common Baron, you are not going to quarter basketball athletes in Hiroshima for example if the basketball events are slated in Manila. There is no need to travel between the two cities if they are concerned for their security plus the fact that the Philippine-Japanese government could negotiate direct flights between Hiroshima and Manila International Airports. If ever athletes and spectators would travel between the two cities, it is purely for tourism reasons. I mean you know, don't think of burdening the athletes, please, with these "creative" thinking of quartering them in distant places and have them take a flight in order for them to attend their scheduled competitions. I mean, is this absurd or what? ;)

Yes, but IOC Officials, the 200+ Chefs de Mission of the participating NOCs, will be commuting between the 2 major hubs to check on operations and on their teams?

DId ya know that in New York 2012's bid of transporting the athletes from the East River of Queens by ferry to the initially proposed Olympic Stadium on the West SIde of Manhattan....on FERRIES...was nixed by the IOC due to security concerns? And you think they won't raise a stink about 4-hour oceanic flights?

Think again.

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Enoch (listen up or I'll start calling you eunuch ), there is a MAJOR difference between different cities WITHIN the one, same host COUNTRY -- and other sites in somebody else's borders. Even within one country, there are turf wars between the various llocal aw enforcement agencies -- what more between 2 sovereign nations?

(If you start calling me eunuch, I'll start calling you ... uhm .... Boron!) Anyways, there is no problem with security: Hiroshima's will be taken cared of by the Japanese and Manila will be taken cared of by the PNP. I mean, no big deal. Although, admittedly, sometimes our police force is a bit... well... off, sometimes, but when there are international events going on, they are alert as a doberman. And I mean it. Not a single incident happened when Beyonce staged a concert in The Fort in Manila... and Beyonce, well, according to broadsheet reports, spend a... well... a passionate night with a Filipino TV director. Now tell me she didn't enjoy?

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Yes, but IOC Officials, the 200+ Chefs de Mission of the participating NOCs, will be commuting between the 2 major hubs to check on operations and on their teams?

Okay, take it your way, eu, enoch. A bit of us here have been around the Olympic world long enough to see that a tiger's stripes never chnage. But if you see it another way -- more power to you.

Enuf said from me.

Then they could quarter their Assistant Chef de Mission on the other city and have them communicate with a phone. I mean, there is no need for them to be really physically present every time in all of the venues. If you would stop commenting any further, I will miss you Bo, Baron.

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(If you start calling me eunuch, I'll start calling you ... uhm .... Boron!) Anyways, there is no problem with security: Hiroshima's will be taken cared of by the Japanese and Manila will be taken cared of by the PNP. I mean, no big deal. Although, admittedly, sometimes our police force is a bit... well... off, sometimes, but when there are international events going on, they are alert as a doberman. And I mean it. Not a single incident happened when Beyonce staged a concert in The Fort in Manila... and Beyonce, well, according to broadsheet reports, spend a... well... a passionate night with a Filipino TV director. Now tell me she didn't enjoy?

Oh well I guess if all went well with Beyonce, then it's OK with the IOC. I hope Rogge and the Executive Board are big Beyonce groupies. :rolleyes:

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DId ya know that in New York 2012's bid of transporting the athletes from the East River of Queens by ferry to the initially proposed Olympic Stadium on the West SIde of Manhattan....on FERRIES...was nixed by the IOC due to security concerns? And you think they won't raise a stink about 4-hour oceanic flights?

There is no need to travel that long because they will not travel that far. There will be a separate athletes' village in the two cities.

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If you've never worked in an Olympic Games, then you would have some difficulty understanding this dynamic.

I never worked for an Olympic Organizing before, but I have an MBA background. Surely, the management of an Olympic Games are not different.

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I never worked for an Olympic Organizing before, but I have an MBA background. Surely, the management of an Olympic Games are not different.

Possibly. But there are things 'on the ground' (in an Olympic organizing context) that you wouldn't find in books.

But OK...whatever. It seems you've got it all worked out. ;)

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Oh well I guess if all went well with Beyonce, then it's OK with the IOC. I hope Rogge and the Executive Board are big Beyonce groupies.

:blink:

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And EVEN granting that the bid makes it past the Short List, Japan agrees to be the junior partner, the dynamics of the whole pairing is quite untenable:

- Manila the 2nd most battered city in the world (after Warsaw) after World War II ( and the 2nd most bombed city by the Imperial Japanese Air Force after Pearl Harbor on that sneaky morning in December 1941)

- Hiroshima, the site of the first Atomic Bomb.

What a dichotomy!! Just something in that scenario tells me the JAPANESE Olympic Committee wouldn't touch this scheme with a 20-ft bamboo pole.

On the contrary, this is a perfect scenario. Manila and Hiroshima could claim that the Olympic Games would be a symbol of peace and unity, because even after the war's aftermath, two cities (the agressor and the battered) will work hand in hand to stage a sports extravaganza... surely there a lot of Filipino and Japanese creative thinkers out there who could figure out a dramatic connection, only to tap core Olympic values. Call it an excessive optimism... but didn't someone tell you lately that Filipinos are resilient?

PS: For awhile, I thought I was presenting the Manila-Hiroshima bid before the IOC because all of you have probing questions! Well, I enjoyed nevertheless.

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Traffic in Beijing was not an issue because the Comm. Party can always decree no private vehicles on the road on any given day -- and what traffic issue would you have?

OK, I forgot for awhile. Can't blame me blame me though... I'm living in a democratic society. ;)

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Possibly. But there are things 'on the ground' (in an Olympic organizing context) that you wouldn't find in books.

But OK...whatever. It seems you've got it all worked out.

Thank you. I appreciate a compliment from a cynical person like you. :P

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On the contrary, this is a perfect scenario. Manila and Hiroshima could claim that the Olympic Games would be a symbol of peace and unity, because even after the war's aftermath, two cities (the agressor and the battered) will work hand in hand to stage a sports extravaganza... surely there a lot of Filipino and Japanese creative thinkers out there who could figure out a dramatic connection, only to tap core Olympic values. Call it an excessive optimism... but didn't someone tell you lately that Filipinos are resilient?

PS: For awhile, I thought I was presenting the Manila-Hiroshima bid before the IOC because all of you have probing questions! Well, I enjoyed nevertheless.

R u sure the Japanese Olympic Committee knows someone is throwing in a Japanese city in the mix -- because last I checked official Japanese history does not consider the residents of the Japanese islands the "agressor(s)." So how can this theme of "the Coming Together of 'the agressor and the battered' for a Manila-Hiroshima 3028 bid be carried out? :blink:

I hope there will be enough 'comfort women' still around to give true technical advice to the Ceremonies. ;)

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R u sure the Japanese Olympic Committee knows someone is throwing in a Japanese city in the mix -- because last I checked official Japanese history does not consider the residents of the Japanese islands the "agressor(s)." So how can this theme of "the Coming Together of 'the agressor and the battered' for a Manila-Hiroshima 3028 bid be carried out?

I hope there will be enough 'comfort women' still around to give true technical advice to the Ceremonies.

That is not going to be the exact theme of course. They would phrase it in a good fashion so as not to offend the sentiments of the Japanese. And please baron, that plan is not good for 3028 for chrissake! Both of us won't be alive by then. :blink:

Last i know, there's a lot more "sluts" out there in the US main land than in the Philippines and Japan combined. ;)

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Last i know, there's a lot more "sluts" out there in the US main land than in the Philippines and Japan combined. ;)

Now, now. No need to be bitchy. Of course, I meant (w/o any disrespect for what really happened to them) the real 'comfort women' who were drafted into that deplorable role by the Imperial Japanese forces. How else would the joint (your) Ceremonies have any ring of authenticity to them?

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Now, now. No need to be bitchy. Of course, I meant (w/o any disrespect for what really happened to them) the real 'comfort women' who were drafted into that deplorable role by the Imperial Japanese forces. How else would the joint (your) Ceremonies have any ring of authenticity to them?

Sorry for sounding like one. :) I will reply to the other posts soon. Got loads to do today.

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