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LA84

Montreal 1976

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why not get rid of the roof and have an open-air stadium? and instead of spending on a new roof, use that money to weather proof the interior of the stadium.

That does make the most sense. The problem tho is that you need some sort of continued revenue to support an open air stadium. With the Expos gone and the Aluettes moving to Molsom there is no sports team available to move in there. If the NFL ever expanded into Canada then there may be a chance but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

The place is a work of art IMHO. I have been there a few times and am always awed by the architecture of it and the Olympic Village. But as they said in the CBC clip, it was an engineering disaster. Not so much pieces falling off the stadium and tower because that happens at stadiums from time to time. Rather, the whole roof system was a farce and any architect would have known that if they had taken weather conditions and other factors into consideration. Tallibert was too egotistical and Drapeau too eager to try and top the success of Expo '67 to be bothered with such things and the result is essentially a new roof having to be installed approximatly every 10 years and nobody wanting to use the stadium.

To me the most obvious solution is to engineer some sort of fixed rolling panel system and forget using Teflon, Kevlar or using the tower to support the roof.

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That does make the most sense. The problem tho is that you need some sort of continued revenue to support an open air stadium. With the Expos gone and the Aluettes moving to Molsom there is no sports team available to move in there. If the NFL ever expanded into Canada then there may be a chance but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

The place is a work of art IMHO. I have been there a few times and am always awed by the architecture of it and the Olympic Village. But as they said in the CBC clip, it was an engineering disaster. Not so much pieces falling off the stadium and tower because that happens at stadiums from time to time. Rather, the whole roof system was a farce and any architect would have known that if they had taken weather conditions and other factors into consideration. Tallibert was too egotistical and Drapeau too eager to try and top the success of Expo '67 to be bothered with such things and the result is essentially a new roof having to be installed approximatly every 10 years and nobody wanting to use the stadium.

To me the most obvious solution is to engineer some sort of fixed rolling panel system and forget using Teflon, Kevlar or using the tower to support the roof.

Well anything you do whether it is taking the tower out , the concrete and steel sections off the roof, put a perminant static fabirc roof in the open it all costs multi million dollars and you still dont have a tennant or a possibllity of one. THe NFL will never come to montreal to occupy the olympic stadium . Corporate suites , club seating and other things the olympic stadium doesnt have will certainly prevent it. Toronto will get a franchise not Montreal. Toronto has the NBA and major league baseball. The money locally for montreal will not come from the Bronfmans they have had their share of financial losses with both the expos and the montreal concorde CFL team. The NFLs priority is to get a franchise back into LA or Anahiem and so far it has been 10 years since the NFL has been absent form the second largest tv market in the united states .

Then you have interests in toronto with proven track records for sports franchise sucess courting the NFL. Ted Rogers may get the franchise but he is not going to want a canadian franchise competting with him a couple hundred miles up the road. The NFL would take into account what either city has done with major sports. Montreal Lost their major league baseball team and had a revolving door of onwership and financial troubles, their CFL teams have come and gone out of the city with similiar results and reasons. Toronto , the CFL Argos still there never had to move, have had different owners and financial troubles but basically in tact. Toronto Blue Jays never moved to another city and have had different ownership groups. Toronto Raptors owned by the same people from day one ,successful at the box office despite sharing a new building with one of the most successful NHL franchises financial who happen to also own the Toronto Raptors.

Yes it is a piece of art but it killed Montreal CFL teams twice and was on the verge of killing the Alouettes a second time , two soccer teams couldnt make it and lead to major league baseball eventually buying the expos and put them into the list with the minnesota twins for contraction of the league. It was so bad that the last owner john larrie was bought out in the league in exchange that he would purchase the florida marlins. There has yet to be a city outside of the united states that has had any major league franchise returned to their city after losing it to an american city. Quebec Nordeque- went to Colorado, Winnipeg Jets -went to phoenix, Vancouver Grizzles -went to Memphis, Montreal Expos -went to Washington DC. No replacement franchises have come north of the broader and no new sports have come across to a city after it has lost a major sports franchise for an america based league. With the united states it is very different Houston lost the NFL oilers to Tennessee, Charlotte lost the Hornets to New Orleans, Balitmore lost the Colts to Indianapolis, Oakland lost the Raiders to LA, New Orleans lost the Jazz to Utah, Cleveland lost the Browns to Balitmore. All these cities and more in the states have lost teams and regained new franchises.

The core problem is you have no tennant and next to nil possiblity of a tennant. It is ironic that the baltimore stallions went into the big owe after the former aloulettes and the montreal concorde had both went bankrupt. The aloulettes mark II (the renamed baltimore stalions) went into the olympic stadium and were on the course to financial ruin until a very odd event happened. THe irish rock band U2 had the olympic stadium for the date that the Aloulettes would have to play for the eastern conference final. So the eastern conference final was played in the Mc Gill university stadium Prevical Molson Memorial Stadium.

The aloulettes sold out Molson Stadium at 20,000 and have every games since 1998. The debate with the neighboors for the montreal aloulettes is the desire by the team and the university to expand Precival Molson Stadium shows football that the olympic stadium is not a place the population supports football beyond 2 or 3 games a year. It is funny to think that Bono Saved the Montreal Alouettes and for that the team plays Sunday Bloody Sunday as they run onto the field for home games.

Sometimes things have to be torn down so the past can be put behind a city. 20 million in maintanence a year is what this building costs and the province of quebec wants to unload it on the taxpayers of montreal. The city is refusing. The city council knows there is no hope for financial viability for the big owe even when it is given to them debt free. I can see two stadiums coming down in the next 10 years in canada . Montreals olympic stadium and BC place.

That will be two stadiums with olympic events happening inside them as BC Place will be used for the opening and closing ceremonies of the 2010 winter games

jim jones

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'Tis true the points you make about an NFL franchise moving to Montreal, nevermind the fact that for a team to ever move into Canada is so far down the road, if ever. I think when the NFL commisioner brought it up he was testing to waters to see what the CFL's reaction would be.

About 2 years ago I recall that the City of Montreal did a study to find out what it would cost to tear down the stadium only and the cost was somewhere around $250m. Because of the way it was built as well as the location of the tower, Biosphere and pool being attached they cannot implode it, so any destruction would be a long process.

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'Tis true the points you make about an NFL franchise moving to Montreal, nevermind the fact that for a team to ever move into Canada is so far down the road, if ever. I think when the NFL commisioner brought it up he was testing to waters to see what the CFL's reaction would be.

About 2 years ago I recall that the City of Montreal did a study to find out what it would cost to tear down the stadium only and the cost was somewhere around $250m. Because of the way it was built as well as the location of the tower, Biosphere and pool being attached they cannot implode it, so any destruction would be a long process.

Well if you consider 20 million a year in maintenance, 6 million a year for 24 years on the latest failing version of the fabric roof and that the 20 million dollar maintanence fee will go up with the age of the stadium and inflation it is no wonder the city of montreal refuses to take over the stadium unless the province of quebec pays the expenses. The Fina world Aquatics Championships didnt even use the olympic swimming pool according to wikipedia. New Facilites had to be built on Isle de Notre Dame.

Controlled Demolition is doing things for bring down buildings that you cannot beleive could happen . In las vegas they are the kings and one tower of the Desert Inn was taken down that was taller then the wing they wanted to keep up . On one side one side of the tower to come down was a bar from another property owner that was left unhurt with a 12 story building coming down beside it. The seperation between the wing to be take down and the wing to be keep intact was perfect and those two building were attached. The aladian casino was brought down that the ruble was taken away for 2 million dollars.

The kingdome in seattle had more volume of concrete and steel then the olympic stadium and Controlled Demolition brought it down.

The clearances to buildings that could be damaged in montreal are greater then some of the implosions Controlled Demolition has done in the past.

The Pie-IX subway station has enclosed walkways to the stadium and is further then many things controlled Demolition has had to deal with.

The green line does not run underneath the stadium , it runs closer to Pierre de Coubertin Boulivard then the stadium.

If the chinesse were informed I am sure they would tear apart the stadium just for the scrap steel as they are in global searches for raw materials to keep

their steel mills running. All of the steel from ships torn apart in India and bangladish go to chinesse stell mills to be reproceeded into new steel.

It is like you have a building which no one will occupy because of a bad rap. As a private business will you maintain a building no one will buy or rent???

You bring down the building to either redevelope or sell to an another company. I you dont maintain it is a liability and if you do maintain it is off your bottom line.

Even if the cost was 100 million to bring it down you are going to spend that anyways in 5 years for a building you can only presently use 8 monthes of the year. and you have no longterm tennant or anyone interested in becoming a longtern tennant. Better to cut your losses that will continue in the future and will increase with absolutely no return.

The thing is with the NFL they are waiting until the CFL colapses if it does and then move into Toronto and maybe Vancouver . The NBA made that move north and vancouver got the NBA despite being a smaller centre. The key was Vancouver had an ownership group where montreal's business elite have been burnt on sport franchise ownership . The NBA also probably knew that competting with the montreal canadains NHL franchise is part of what lead to

the expos , alouettes ,concorde, and maniac downfalls. It is hard to complete with the Yankees of Professional Hockey and Montreals impatience with

teams that dont win championships is well documented. When you have a team that has won over twenty percent of the stanley cups in the history of the game it is hard for a foriegn sport to compete. The NFL knows that and they would refuse to occupy the stadium anyways it would be their second oldest in real terms.

jim jones

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The other problem I see is Quebec's annual quest to seceed from Canada. Canada desperatly needs a training center for Olympic hopefuls and Olympic Stadium to me would make sense for the country to take over for such a purpose. However, why would Ottawa do that if there was a chance that Quebec someday may not be a part of Canada?

I guess I dwell on this too much. Montreal was my first Olympics when I came to understand what it meant and for a 13 year old at the time, Olympic Stadium was a masterpiece. Heck, I still have a poster from '76 hanging in my bedroom that is a scale drawing of the stadium that was one of the official Montreal '76 Olympic posters (that and Amik but he got put into the closet).

Edited by LA84

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One of the rejected concepts for the Beijing Olympic Stadium had an interesting idea...a floating blimp-like structure that acted as a retractable roof. I always thought that could be an interesting solution for Stade Olympique.

bjtiyug.jpg

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One of the rejected concepts for the Beijing Olympic Stadium had an interesting idea...a floating blimp-like structure that acted as a retractable roof. I always thought that could be an interesting solution for Stade Olympique.

bjtiyug.jpg

I always wondered what the hell that was supposed to be. I figured the Chinese were expecting aliens to land during their Olympics.

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I always wondered what the hell that was supposed to be. I figured the Chinese were expecting aliens to land during their Olympics.

I think that's how the architects Meuron and Herzog (?) sold the Chinese on their design. They showed them, on that drawing, that some GIANT eagle was really going to lay an egg on Bird's Nest stadium!

And guess what? The Chinese bought it!! :lol:

Edited by baron-pierreIV

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The other problem I see is Quebec's annual quest to seceed from Canada. Canada desperatly needs a training center for Olympic hopefuls and Olympic Stadium to me would make sense for the country to take over for such a purpose. However, why would Ottawa do that if there was a chance that Quebec someday may not be a part of Canada?

I guess I dwell on this too much. Montreal was my first Olympics when I came to understand what it meant and for a 13 year old at the time, Olympic Stadium was a masterpiece. Heck, I still have a poster from '76 hanging in my bedroom that is a scale drawing of the stadium that was one of the official Montreal '76 Olympic posters (that and Amik but he got put into the closet).

It certainly was a masterpeace but the Mona Lisa does not cost the people of paris 20 million a year and have the possibility of killing someone with a 65 ton peice of concrete that fell in a concourse level of the olympics stadium in 1991. I loved the olympic stadium as well it certainly was a great peice of art but the art has to function , be safe and be viable. I was in my teens at the time and I thought that the olympic stadium would be filled for every game for decades but the hang over from the party came quickly and people in montreal had to be concerned with either A. paying the huge tax bill B. moving to ontario as the PQ came into power making life for the english unbearable C. following the jobs for corporate head quarters that left ontario post games and because of the PQ coming to power. The PQ mandated it law that you could only speak french on a jobsite or in an office beleive it or not. With that the economy went down hill and entertainment with sports in montreal as well.

You dont have the corporations in quebec you used to and meribel airport was another white elephant victim of the games. Personally I think you have to get rid of the damm stadium to throw the bad luck out of the city.

It may be a unique futuristic building to look at but the future is passing it by fast. It just doesnt not have a purpose or a use. The stadium was not the attractor of people to the city it was the factor that drove them away to live other places.

jim jones

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Roof in Vancouver's BC Place collapses...

Why does that sound like deja vu? :blink:

The Metrodome in Minneapolis collapsed for three times in three consecutive years from 1981 to 1983, and the stadium was constructed in 1978...not long after. BC Place Stadium was built in 1982, and hasn't ever had a puncture since until today.

It's not that bad.

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The Metrodome in Minneapolis collapsed for three times in three consecutive years from 1981 to 1983, and the stadium was constructed in 1978...not long after. BC Place Stadium was built in 1982, and hasn't ever had a puncture since until today.

It's not that bad.

The pontiac silver dome had a colaspe as well with the same type of air supported system and I believe the Carrrier dome in upstate New York had the same thing happen . The metrodome/carrierdome/bc place/ silverdome/ indianapolis dome design is very sound from an engineering standpoint. Considering Bc place has been open since 1983 the people of bc and vancouver have been well served with a proven roof system used in other places. You take every stadium in north america of the bc place roof design and stack the construction cost together and you still would not match the eventual cos of the big owe. BC place was 138 million canadian dollars a far cry from 1.5 billion the big owe cost and even the 310 million the estimated cost was in 1974 to the 770 million is was said to cost in 1976 to the 900 million is cost in 1991.

The Big Owe is a failed experiment and just the costs of fabric roofs of the big owe cost as much as the entire bc place to construct. The design or even the concept of cable suspended fabric roof for a stadium was not attmepted again and probably never will be because of montreal.

BC place could lose money like all stadiums basically do in real terms but it has not driven its main tennant out of the building and certainly doesnt have the population in fear of entering the building wondering if a 65 ton piece of concrete will fall on them . With Fabric roofs you are going to have some much the technology can do when it is desgined at a certain point in time. The canada palce building also operated by PAVCO I Beleive is a different technology and I have not heard a report this week of trouble with that roof. Canada palce came 2 years after BC Place.

jom jones

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31 years ago today, the Olympic Flame is lit at the Montreal Olympic Stadium. I wonder, if some of those city officials still think the city really wants to bid for another Olympic Games now.

1976S_emblem_b.jpg

Official Emblem

1976S_poster_b.jpg

The Poster

1976S_torch_b.jpg

The Torch

Link: IOC: Montreal 1976

Edited by Guardian

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I am quite puzzled by this revelation about one of the reasons the Montreal 1976 Games went downhill financially like that. It was mentioned by the CBC, I believe, last week or the beginning of this week. Did the Italian Mafia had a hand in being part of a group in building the Olympic facilities for those Games and led those Games toward that unfortunate financial end to be fixed by ordinary Quebeckers for the next 30 years?

Why I have said that because, when they captured the head of the Rizutto crime family (and he is in an American jail at this time), the guy was reported about that he was going to hit the biggest mother lode in world criminal history. You see, his dummy company was about to build a bridge between the Italian mainland and the island of Sicily (home of the Mafia). The Italian government nearly gave the winning contract to that mentioned company so that, when the bridge was finished, tolls would be paid by ordinary Italians to use it. However, those people and the government would not have known that they are simply paying this crime family all the money it needs, in theory, to "wipe out the other rival Mafia crime families" and essentially "control the Italian government" itself in some fashion. Hence, his possible extradition to Italy for those possible charges right now.

However, could have some of that money to pull off that wild scheme came from way back to the funds that should have been used to build, organized and host the 1976 Olympic Games properly? Talk about having wool over everyone's eyes big time, if that was true.

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Interesting theory. The mafia is very big in concrete and construction ventures. Is the mafia that big in Canada? I would assume that the stadium was built and materials supplied by Canadians?

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Interesting theory. The mafia is very big in concrete and construction ventures. Is the mafia that big in Canada? I would assume that the stadium was built and materials supplied by Canadians?

Its not as famous, but we have mafia and mafia-esque organizations from Italy, Russia and Vietnam. Montreal is the center of it as well.

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Its not as famous, but we have mafia and mafia-esque organizations from Italy, Russia and Vietnam. Montreal is the center of it as well.

That is actually very interesting. I do recall very vaguely as a 12 year old that the strikes in Montreal seemed to just come out of nowhere in 1975 or so . .

Around the same time Jimmy Hoffa disappeared . . .

Edited by LA84

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That is actually very interesting. I do recall very vaguely as a 12 year old that the strikes in Montreal seemed to just come out of nowhere in 1975 or so . .

Around the same time Jimmy Hoffa disappeared . . .

Makes me wonder, if NYC would have won the bid for the 2012 Olympic Games, the Mafia would have tried to play a role over there, too.

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I posted something about this in the London thread. But I recall several years ago reading something that said the 1B cost of Olympic Stadium not only included the stadium but infrastructure, pool, velodrome/Biosphere and tower.

Granted - $1b in 1976 was a huge amount of money - and is today. But with the costs of Bejing and what we are reading about London, if the venues were broken out as separate entities, how that would compare to today?

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