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What Will The Halifax 2014 Do When The Bid Is Withdrawn?


jim jones

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yes it seems a pro games councillor andrew younger has said the bid will not get past the end of winter with the secrecy the council is having to endure.

Opinions please . willl games supporters commit suicide like the former director of the 2005 fina world aquatics championship did in janaury 2005 or like the brazilian soccer fans did after the 1950 world cup when uraugauy beat brazil 1-0 in rio.

Just wondering

yours respectfully jim boy jones

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well guys I cant believe I would say this and I am sure you probably thought it would never happen but I am in total agreement with you both .

the danger is mac (and i try to put myself into the heads of the committee) releasing numbers higher then what they have makes the public say "ok this is the fourth time they have adjusted the price upwards". That blows their credibility and gives games opponents more .

If the council does truly not have numbers and gloria i am sure is telling the truth then it must be hell. I think they have been in a stalling pattern for a very long time and Bruce devenne has taken great advantage of it bringing every single peice of games negatives to the forefront of the debate.

When you hear the words come out of the mayors and pro games councillors mouths . "these games have to be affordable" then it is in trouble.

The secrecy adds to the fears of the people.

The commonwealth games in hlaifax could have been done if the city had a master plan for a sport park on a greenfield site and built over the last 20 to 30 years. it has been the approach places like salt lake city have had for games bids and it is the approach both glasgow and abuja have had for a while.

That is how you would win a games. Not sheltering people from a huge surprize like london .

jim jones

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I think that the Halifax bid will go ahead, despite some misgivings about it from all sides involved. Never mind about some news in the past that the (International) Commonwealth Games Federation "needs" Canada's support to keep the Games revelant against the likes of the Olympic Games. Also, the IOC itself has a list of "recognized international Games" and the Commonwealth Games are in that very short list. Most of all, some of those pundits say what Greece is to the Olympic Games, it can be applied indirectly to the way Canada is to the Commonwealth Games. Remember, there was plans to have some sort of a "Commonwealth Games" long before Hamilton 1930. Mostly likely right at the time, when the old British empire was under Queen Victoria's reign then. Of course, the first such Games should have been held somewhere in the United Kingdom as the result. Guess something prevented the British empire to come up with a solid plan and Athens 1896 came (with the founding of the IOC in 1894) to be in the end.

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I think that the Halifax bid will go ahead, despite some misgivings about it from all sides involved. Never mind about some news in the past that the (International) Commonwealth Games Federation "needs" Canada's support to keep the Games revelant against the likes of the Olympic Games. Also, the IOC itself has a list of "recognized international Games" and the Commonwealth Games are in that very short list. Most of all, some of those pundits say what Greece is to the Olympic Games, it can be applied indirectly to the way Canada is to the Commonwealth Games. Remember, there was plans to have some sort of a "Commonwealth Games" long before Hamilton 1930. Mostly likely right at the time, when the old British empire was under Queen Victoria's reign then. Of course, the first such Games should have been held somewhere in the United Kingdom as the result. Guess something prevented the British empire to come up with a solid plan and Athens 1896 came (with the founding of the IOC in 1894) to be in the end.

True enough on the greece originally hosting the olympics in 1896 but it to be others then the original name sake that start or restart a movement. Baron Pierre de Coubertin was a french nobel man , Bobby Robinson a hamilton business man started the british empire games in hamilton even thou he is not the original visionary. I think thou if you are celebrating aniversary for the commonwealth games Hamilton would be the place not Halifax.Of course one of the years that falls on a zero wol be a logical date. with 2010 got the next one is 2030 the 100 th aniversary. It maybe too long for the movement. Not to be smug against Halifax but a homecoming for the 2004 summer olympics would have been totally different if say the island of rhodes or the greek section of cyprus were the hosts and not athens. To me anything outside of a greek olympics not in athens is not a homecoming at all. It is an attempt at regional development which halifax really is. A bad attempt.

It is not so much about the country or the past rep for hosting . Halifax could do a fanastic job with the right people but it is a totally different animal from 1994 victoria , 1978 edmonton , 1954 vancouver and 1930 hamilton.

I believe that there should have been a given with athens having the 100 th aniversary. With an agreement far ahead of time lets say 20 years The last Athens games could have avoided the cost overruns with careful planning. That is the only way that sport festivals are going to become rational, survive and thrive.

jim jones.

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Well, jim jones, it was rather strange that Hamilton got the first nod to host what we now call the Commonwealth Games back in 1930 in the first place. One would think that London should had gotten that honor, but instead, it hosted the next British Empire Games in 1934. Never mind that it took Manchester 2002 to bring back the Commonwealth Games to English soil again.

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Well, jim jones, it was rather strange that Hamilton got the first nod to host what we now call the Commonwealth Games back in 1930 in the first place. One would think that London should had gotten that honor, but instead, it hosted the next British Empire Games in 1934. Never mind that it took Manchester 2002 to bring back the Commonwealth Games to English soil again.

It might be a strange thing from eyes right now but if you think about it in the 1930s and southern ontario the demographic is much more different then it is today. You had a strong empire loyality and rpime expressed with the ORANGE men movement of protestants. It really amount to a celebration of the empire by people with strong roots int eh british isles.

Remember London had hosted the olympics prior to the 1930s commownealth games and probably not think this was a worth while thing . The idea sat on the shelf for about 50 years before a hamilton sports writer brought it worth. London and Europe around the time of the idea coming forth would have been very concerned about the state of germany and their economy gone out of control with hyper inflation that has not been seen at those levels even in south american coutnries since.

So london would have a great deal on their plate from war recovery for the first world war as well. Hamilton did not bid on this they created by default.

The Baron however started the modern olympics because the acinet olympics were hedl in greece. No such prior history for the celts or over savages like my ancestors in soctland. We were runnign around buck naked when the greece had their olympics before christ was born . LOL

jim jones

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i agree. even though Halifax 2014 is trying to stay competitive by keeping their plan secret, it's a bit too secret.

Well Mr. X aside from our diametircally opposing views about commonwealth games and international sports festivals can you recall

some much secrecy ???? What I see is if the council is demanding answers then they must be very in the dark and that

raises the fears of people here and erodes possible support. In glasgows case you have 12 staffers compared to 25 and

they are bringing the costs out in the open for anyone who wants to go to their website.

The flythrew of the planned venues and the renovations are really amazing.

Please tell us how it was in the run up to vancouver's bid because their public relations certainly helped to win a 60 percent plus plebisite for the games which is required under IOC rules. The commonwealth games have no such provisions as this is probably the first time they have faced a opposition prior to the bid. In the last two cases the awarded cities went in unopposed.

Just asking on a friendly basis.

jim jones

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Well Mr. X aside from our diametircally opposing views about commonwealth games and international sports festivals can you recall

some much secrecy ???? What I see is if the council is demanding answers then they must be very in the dark and that

raises the fears of people here and erodes possible support. In glasgows case you have 12 staffers compared to 25 and

they are bringing the costs out in the open for anyone who wants to go to their website.

The flythrew of the planned venues and the renovations are really amazing.

Please tell us how it was in the run up to vancouver's bid because their public relations certainly helped to win a 60 percent plus plebisite for the games which is required under IOC rules. The commonwealth games have no such provisions as this is probably the first time they have faced a opposition prior to the bid. In the last two cases the awarded cities went in unopposed.

Just asking on a friendly basis.

jim jones

It was early January 2003 that Vancouver bid corporation revealed everything through the release of the Bid Book. I believe the deadline for the books was Friday, January 9 and Vancouver was the first of the three bids to submit the documents. Five days later, Vancouver was also the first bid to release their bid book/plan to the public.

I can say that Vancouver 2010 was very very transparent with all of its plans, including the finances. In late-October 2002, the bid committee revealed the projected costs of the venues [and of course, the bid book gave final projections]. October also revealed that the operating costs (does not include venues or any capital investments) for the future organizing committee (VANOC) would be around $1.3 billion. An economic report was later released in November 2002, estimating between $6-10 billion in local economic activity from the Games....which so far, has been quite accurate. It also reports that between 120,000 to 240,000 full time and part time jobs could be created.

And the bid committee knew that a civic plebiscite/referendum on the Games was quite possible. COPE, a Vancouver civic party, won the election in November 2002. I can say that the party wasn't quite supportive of the Games (including the mayor), and one of their election promises was to hold a plebiscite. In early-December 2002, the city announced a referendum for February 22, 2003 which would be days away from the IOC Evaluation Committee's visit beginning on March 2.

As you know, the results were 64% YES and it was an historical vote - some 140,000 ballots were casted from a population of 570,000. Immediately after the vote, a rally for the Vancouver 2010 Games was announced for March 2 (first day of the evaluation visit) on a three-block stretch of Robson Street. 50,000 people gathered there to support the Games. Gigantic 20-storey building banners were also revealed.

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And to just get a feeling of where Halifax is and where Vancouver was in their bid, Vancouver was elected host city on July 2, 2003.

And your two passages refresh my memory on were things were at in Vancouver .

This morning in the Halifax Herald we have a report the the freedom of information officer for the province is questioned the

censorship of documents the committee has released . These same documents are the exact documents the city get with the same heavily censored portions.

The thing is 65 percent for a plebsite was obtained with only a 20 to 30 percent turnout . If you can get 65 percent with information released and not enough people were passionate enough about casting a ballot on the no side then the committee for better or worse has been successful .

With Halifax case it seems it is a closed private society . Glasgow Scotland a citizen of that city could make a freedom of information request on the salaries and get the information . THe councillor Gloria Mc cluskey is stating that you can see her frustration . Considering this is the former mayor of Dartmouth it speaks volumes about the situation .

cheers paul

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The thing is 65 percent for a plebsite was obtained with only a 20 to 30 percent turnout . If you can get 65 percent with information released and not enough people were passionate enough about casting a ballot on the no side then the committee for better or worse has been successful.

Actually, based on the 293,263 registered voters in the November 16, 2002 civic election,

turnout for the Olympic Vote was 46 per cent. With 46% votes casted, it was Vancouver's biggest vote turnout in history.

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Never mind that it took Manchester 2002 to bring back the Commonwealth Games to English soil again.

Not a suprise that English cities weren't interested in the commonwealth games for a long time.

In England the commonwealth games are not a big deal. Infact they are a non-event until they actually start and one day you come home from school/ university/ work and switch on the TV set. You think "what this?" Oh the commonwealth games- OK...

There is no major build up or publicity campaign as you get preceding events like the summer olympics, world cup or European football championships. Prior to Melbourne 2006 the BBC put on a trailer like 1 week in advance of the games starting, a short 30 second commercial of this bloke sitting on a sofa with a remote control in his hand, staying awake to watch the games (because of the time difference).

In terms of public interest/ enthusiasm in the UK, the Commonwealth games is way down the list. The following events get more interest:

- summer olympics

- football world cup

- european football championships (Euro 2004/2008 etc)

- qualifying games for the world cup/ euro 2008

- wimbledon

- the ashes

- FA cup final

- Champions league

- The grand national (horse racing)

- British grand prix (Silverstone)

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The Baron however started the modern olympics because the acinet olympics were hedl in greece. No such prior history for the celts or over savages like my ancestors in soctland. We were runnign around buck naked when the greece had their olympics before christ was born . LOL

jim jones

Actually it was the ancient Greek athletes who ran around buck naked when taking part in Olympic events!

I doubt anyone would have done this in chilly Scotland.They would have frozen to death!!

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Not a suprise that English cities weren't interested in the commonwealth games for a long time.

In England the commonwealth games are not a big deal. Infact they are a non-event until they actually start and one day you come home from school/ university/ work and switch on the TV set. You think "what this?" Oh the commonwealth games- OK...

There is no major build up or publicity campaign as you get preceding events like the summer olympics, world cup or European football championships. Prior to Melbourne 2006 the BBC put on a trailer like 1 week in advance of the games starting, a short 30 second commercial of this bloke sitting on a sofa with a remote control in his hand, staying awake to watch the games (because of the time difference).

In terms of public interest/ enthusiasm in the UK, the Commonwealth games is way down the list. The following events get more interest:

- summer olympics

- football world cup

- european football championships (Euro 2004/2008 etc)

- qualifying games for the world cup/ euro 2008

- wimbledon

- the ashes

- FA cup final

- Champions league

- The grand national (horse racing)

- British grand prix (Silverstone)

We're not quite to the extent of apathy that seemed to be illustrated in Canada by the lack of a television rights deal for Melbourne until the very last moment. The BBC offer a level of coverage of the Commonwealths which, though not at Olympic intensity or volume, is not that far away.

But, in general terms, the Commonwealth Games do suffer from a lack of world-class competition in show in some of its major sports. I know that for sports like rugby sevens, bowls, etc it is a virtual world championship. But, in athletics, swimming, gymnastics and boxing to think of four, the top class performers on show are few and far between and the lack of top level competition is painfully obvious.

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We're not quite to the extent of apathy that seemed to be illustrated in Canada by the lack of a television rights deal for Melbourne until the very last moment. The BBC offer a level of coverage of the Commonwealths which, though not at Olympic intensity or volume, is not that far away.

But, in general terms, the Commonwealth Games do suffer from a lack of world-class competition in show in some of its major sports. I know that for sports like rugby sevens, bowls, etc it is a virtual world championship. But, in athletics, swimming, gymnastics and boxing to think of four, the top class performers on show are few and far between and the lack of top level competition is painfully obvious.

That is a huge problem for attracting interest from the point of view of a british isles viewers or anyone from enlgand to new zealand going east. Imagine a canadain who does not see rugby sevens, netball and other sports that are fairly popular outside north america. Baseball in north america has a huge following and in australia it has some following but great britian , malta , the british commonwelath nations in africa and asia??? you have practically every time zone on earth covered by this group of nations and the tastes in sports are as extreme for as many time zones.

In canada it would actually suit us better to host a Pan AM games then a CWGs . Baseball at its finest with Cuba, Canada, Dominican Republic, Panama and the united states. English football would be a draw with south american players whom are mong the best in many cases. Uraguay vs Brazil vs Columbia vs Agentina all those matches even with second teir or third teir players I would pay to see and I am not a soccer fan. Basketball between the US, Brazil, Canada and Cuba would be good as well. Track Athletics would be of good quality as well.

Dont get me you do have some world ranked netball countries in the commonwealth but you couldnt find 100 people in any city in canada that would have witnessed a netball game on tv let alone live in person . Squash well my father when he heard that it was an event for the commonwealth games said "oh one a nova scotia will win because the americans are not in the commonwealth , howard dill is the great squash grower on the planet with many trophies but the americans from calvarus coutny california had been beating him lately"

The divide is that great and thus why there was no real desire for a canadian TV network fo sign up to cover the commonwealth games in melbourne.

jim jones

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If/ when Halifax loses, what will happen next?

Will other Canadian cities actually be interested in bidding for 2018, giving the failed bids of 2010/14 (which was a waste of money) and that no Canadian TV channel wanted to buy the rights for 2006?

Will Hamilton jump at the chance of bidding for 2018?

What is the relationship like between Hamilton and CGC (Commonwealth Games Canada), given that the bidding team was very cut up and bitter over their loss to Halifax for the 2014 candidacy, and asked lots of questions afterwards ?

Would CGC give Hamiton another go?

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If/ when Halifax loses, what will happen next?

Will other Canadian cities actually be interested in bidding for 2018, giving the failed bids of 2010/14 (which was a waste of money) and that no Canadian TV channel wanted to buy the rights for 2006?

Will Hamilton jump at the chance of bidding for 2018?

What is the relationship like between Hamilton and CGC (Commonwealth Games Canada), given that the bidding team was very cut up and bitter over their loss to Halifax for the 2014 candidacy, and asked lots of questions afterwards ?

Would CGC give Hamiton another go?

Well the view I get is that either Toronto, North York Region (the suburbs of Toronto) or Hamilton would step up for a 2018 bid and most likely be successful depending on who wins between abuja and glasgow. Of course if halifax won there would be no bid from canada in 2018 but realistically we know halfiax will not win.

Hamilton you could have chilly relationship with the Canadian commonwealth games people because of the end result of the 2003 bid selection meeting inwhihc the head of the hamilton bid committee cried foul over India 100,000 us dollar per national athletics association. ON the other hand the offending parties will not be around in 2010 2011 for that campaign .

it all depends on who wins in november and how badly Halifax is beaten. Hamilton with Ron Joyce of the Tim Hortons business empire is in the process of building a new small stadium on the campus of macmaster universtiy in hamilton. Ron Joyce made his fortune off of the second largest coffee and donut franchise chain in the world for numbers of outlets. Wendy's restaurants bought into Tim Hortons and Ron became the largest single shareholder wendys stock in the process. The man could be to hamilton what cyldesdale bank is to glasgow. A huge fish that becomes involved. Ironically Ron Joyce is from northern nova scotia only 100 miles away from Halifax. He is not taking an interest in the facilites needed for a commonwealth games in Halifax rather donating 2 million to the local childrens regional hospital and 10 million to the field hockey stadium at MacMaster out of the 14 million dollar cost. Hamilton has an ace card with ron joyce if he and other successful hamilton business people get involved. The hamilton spectator newspaper is another source for that community.

If Abuja won I think you would see Canadain cities dive right in but all from ontario. Alberta is not going to get into a commonwealth games bid after they have hosted a very successful winter games in 1988. They had a domestic bid committtee for 2014 which pulled out citing profitability issues. Toronto I am sure is waiting for the dust to clear on this round.

The amount of corporate sponsorship in ontario especially from the financial district situated in Toronto (known as bay street) would be key to possible contenders to a commonwealth games bid. I can see singapore launching a bid , australia might as well and then I am sure either Abuja or Glasgow will launch a bid as a follow up like athens did. Canada would probably have a good chance as it would be 22 years between hostings with the games going to asia twice , england once , australia once and perhaps africa or scotland once. Getting back to the americas would be key in many ways .

If Glasgow wins I think Abuja or South Africa launches a bid in 2018. ABuja looks to be on the sports festival hosting mode with a Seoul South Korea game plan . An all african games and commonwealth games are stepping stones to what they ultimately want. If Glasgow wins I cant see canada launching a bid for 2018 for the simple reason

an african canidate will come forth with a possible faint attack from singapore to ward off a old commonwealth canidate much like happened with kuala lumpar and new delhi. Singapore pulled out of course but the move was effective in keeping a great britian canidate off the sheets. Africa would win a second time in 2018 if they didnt win in 2014.

The 2006 tv right thing could be solved by a northern hemisphere hosting or atleast one not in the winter. The sports channels are very much in use november thru june on NHL ice hockey , Curling and Basketball. Then you have the commonwealth games unfortuately falling on winter olympics years with the switch since 1994 at lillyhammer. June thru October you have the window on for commonwealth games for a space for canada. You are also having to tippy toe around the FIFA world cup . The major league baseball world series is another problem for the commonwealth games in october and that will be a factor for new delhi's chosen hosting time in 2010.

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I can guarantee you that Hamilton will definitely step it up for 2018 if Halifax loses the 2014 bid.

There’s was bitter resentment against the Commonwealth Games Canada when Hamilton lost the 2014 bid when initially they said Hamilton will automatically be the Canadian bid for 2014 then they changed it, thanks to the Sports Canada (government) and opened the bidding process and wham Halifax wins. Yet Hamilton won against all the Canadian bids on the winability factor, basically Commonwealth Games Canada awarded a city with no winability factor, dumb move.

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I forgot to add why I said I can guarantee that Hamilton will bid for 2018 if Halifax loses the 2014 bid.

That’s because Hamilton has the Hamilton Spectator (which Jim already pointed out), local newspaper, which will do everything it can do to pressure City Hall to step it up and make a bid for 2018. That’s what they did in for 2010 and 2014, writing articles after articles about the bid and doing interviews.

Remember it was Bobby Robinson, sports writer for Hamilton Spectator that started the British Empire Games in Hamilton.

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I forgot to add why I said I can guarantee that Hamilton will bid for 2018 if Halifax loses the 2014 bid.

That’s because Hamilton has the Hamilton Spectator (which Jim already pointed out), local newspaper, which will do everything it can do to pressure City Hall to step it up and make a bid for 2018. That’s what they did in for 2010 and 2014, writing articles after articles about the bid and doing interviews.

Remember it was Bobby Robinson, sports writer for Hamilton Spectator that started the British Empire Games in Hamilton.

Very well put Apple . The thing is 2014 as far as canadas bid is both a bad joke and a farce. Calgary saw what the political movivation was pushing towards and bailing out in september 2005.

Paul Martin laided his hands on in the name of regional development . The region however he was trying to develope was Africa. Martin is probably still wearing

brown lipstick from kissing BONOs butt everytime BONO made and appearance in canada. LOL.

Halifax will look rediculous with this bid and Hamilton or another Ontario Centre will actually have its act together in 2018. You have public support and a tennant for a new stadium in Hamilton . Halifax well 6500 for major junior hockey in the 10,000 arena does not show a base of support for a CFL franchsie that needs 25,000 a game to make money.

jim jones

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In the long run, Calgary's bailout was a good thing. Our new Alberta government has some "intent" on dealing with critical infrastructure first; not building more sporting venues for "a few." When you have one that is "rural dominated" rather than "urban dominated" now, then something has been missed in the previous Klein government in certain issues. Even more so, Halifax has tried recently to woo back all those Nova Scotians that went to Alberta, particularly Calgary, to find work with "aggressive campaigns." I have not personally seen it, but it wouldn't be surprising to me if the construction people from NS is needed back home, discreetly, to help bolster the Halifax 2014 bid. So far, according to the local news media, the majority of these people are NOT falling for it.

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In the long run, Calgary's bailout was a good thing. Our new Alberta government has some "intent" on dealing with critical infrastructure first; not building more sporting venues for "a few." When you have one that is "rural dominated" rather than "urban dominated" now, then something has been missed in the previous Klein government in certain issues. Even more so, Halifax has tried recently to woo back all those Nova Scotians that went to Alberta, particularly Calgary, to find work with "aggressive campaigns." I have not personally seen it, but it wouldn't be surprising to me if the construction people from NS is needed back home, discreetly, to help bolster the Halifax 2014 bid. So far, according to the local news media, the majority of these people are NOT falling for it.

The problem is Halifax can't afford to get in a peeing contest with alberta for wages . construction people ex pat of nova scotia are not coming back for 3 years work when they have 30 years ahead of them in alberta at twice the wage. The only way you build stadiums efficiently today is with labour that is skilled in building stadiums and that is now being shown with the chinesse government funding stadiums in the carribean to 50 percent of cost under the condition that chinesse labour makes up half the labour force. This is what the chinesse are doing in regards to the 2007world cricket championships in the carribean with multiple stadia going up with gangs of 500 chinesse labourers at each stadium taking one side of the cricket venue while the other side is local workers. They actually have a competition going on in jamiaca with team janiaca and team china seeing who can build the fastest. Who finishes first get a reward .

With the amount of work for stadiums going on in the world and china doing finishing work on their massive stadium projects for beijing these other workers now have the skills and are an exportable comodity. Nigeria even has Chinesse supervisors for renovations to Liberation Stadium in Port Harcourt. considering that 140 million people live in nigeria it is something to think they would have any chinesse involvement. Alberta is wise really . They made a bit of money with the winter games but the bread and butter resources industries are making them tons more . Why take workers off the tar sands related projects with a high demand for that product for a sports festival that has never made a profit ? I think it was as simple as that for the city of calgary, and the province of alberta. Yuo also drive up the price of steel for the private interests for the resource industries when you embrak on huge public projects that are not needed for the economy.

jim jones

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