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The CGF certainly seems to have none of the corporate or organisational abilities or strength to operate in a similar manner as the IOC does (hardly surprising considering the more amateurish aspects of the federation's upper management and the games themselves). The likes of Fennell and Hooper as well as all those who voted for Delhi must take a goodly portion of the blame, however I suspect unlike say Samaranch and Athens, or even going back as far as Brundage and Melbourne, once the choice was made with Delhi the exec board has been unable to do anything more than sit back and cross fingers at every step of the way with the Kalmadi Klowns.

What is intriguing is assuming the current farce was to get worse it would possibly be impossible for the CGF to actually cancel the games. There is a clause allowing them to repeal the host city contract but this has to be done by the Exec Committee which needs 14 days notice of a meeting. As the Delay Shames will be probably staggering through a few days of competition before such a meeting can be held, methinks it's too late.

And let's face it, unlike the IOC which is in a significant degree of power when it comes to exerting influence in the world thanks to the Olympic brand, the Commonwealth Games are well nigh unsellable (as reflected with the likes of Hambantota's bid which would be laughed at in an Olympic context). Delhi's bid had all the compelling factors akin to Beijing's for 2008, however unlike the IOC The CGF had no credible alternate that wouldn't have smacked of a perceived repeat of the traditional white man's games. Hamilton may have been the better organisational option but Delhi's non-selection could have disaffected the African and Asian delegates, thus further reducing the CG's relevance. Sad to say it looks like the CGF was in a no-win situation back in 2003...picking Delhi has almost certainly consigned the CWGs to the dustbin of sporting history.

i think you are right toi a certain extent - we will have to see what happens in Glasgow and after before we consign the games to history. still not a great moment for the organisation. i would imaging HRH will be furious!

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Well nice to see something positive emerging finally from the Delay 2011 CGs however the village appears no better than others (certainly looks like the athlete's rooms and dining facilities are of

Wise words coming from someone based in OZ, considering they cant even guarantee the safety of international students based in their country, hell a kid even approached john Howard with a knife back w

THIS SHOULD SHUT THE MOUTH OF ALL THOSE FOREIGNERS WHO LOOK DOWN UPON INDIA AS A LAND OF SNAKE CHARMERS, POVERTY, AND CORRUPTION!! THESE VENUES ARE FAR BETTER THAN ANY USED IN THE CWG TILL DATE - U B

This article in the Independent sums up for me the feeling I've always had that India lacks a true sporting culture which probably accounts for the complacent and indifferent way in which they have organized these Games:

Why India is a bit player in the world of sport

Deep-seated cultural attitudes may be to blame for the Commonwealth Games fiasco

By Mihir Bose

Thursday, 23 September 2010

Does India always have a problem making a strong entrance on the world stage? That was certainly the view of E M Forster's fictional English hero Fielding in A Passage to India who ranked the country alongside Belgium as cutting a sorry figure.

As India booms, that may sound like an outdated concept. Yet the hash the Indians are making of the Commonwealth Games suggests that even Belgium would object to being compared with them. Belgium successfully staged the 2000 European football championship, albeit in partnership with Holland, and the same duo is hoping to host the 2018 World Cup.

In contrast, the Delhi Commonwealth Games have seen the deaths of numerous construction workers, a massive uprooting of the capital's poor and, following allegations of corruption, the Indian Prime Minister stepping in to appoint officials to supervise the project.

The problems the Games have revealed are more than the usual Indian contradictions. This ancient culture which is supposed to be measured and slow is actually one where everyone wants to go fast. One of the favourite Indian expressions is "Juldi, juldi" ("hurry, hurry"). The only problem is the stifling bureaucracy and the agonisingly inefficient infrastructure. The result is that cries of "Juldi, juldi" rise like a cloud of vapour while the actual pace of the journey matches the legendary Indian bullock cart.

And, while India still has a Soviet-style Planning Commission which produces five year plans, the country has an instinctive aversion to the sort of long-term planning which major sports events require. The Indian ability to improvise cannot be doubted. Last year, when security concerns meant that the Indian Premier League could not be staged in India, within weeks it had been moved to South Africa in the sort of operation that would be unthinkable in any other country.

The organisers of the Commonwealth Games, aware of this, took the unprecedented decision of moving their chief executive Mike Hooper from his comfortable office in central London to Delhi. The hope was that the feisty New Zealander would bring a much needed dose of Anglo-Saxon realism to the Indian belief that it will be all right on the night, summed up in the phrase "Chalta hai" ("It will do").

But not even Hooper could have solved the deep-seated problems revealed by the Commonwealth Games. These raise serious doubts as to whether, for all the money being spent on the tournament and all the talk of national pride, Indians actually care about sport.

Cricket apart, India is one of the great underachievers of modern sport. Until 2008, India's Olympic golds had all come in hockey. In Beijing, the country did win its first individual gold in shooting, but it has never done anything of note in the high-profile events of swimming, track and field. Its contingent for the Winter Olympics in Vancouver was so shambolic that the city's large Indian origin population started organising donations for the team. The odd individual Indian has sometimes made sporting headlines but, given the country's immense size and its long exposure to western sports, its failure to make a mark on the world sporting stage is astonishing.

One explanation has been provided by Ashwini Kumar, a former vice president of the International Olympic Committee."India has no base for sports despite its enormous population. Sport in our country is khel-khood (just a bit of fun)," he said.

"It goes against the grain of our country, against our tradition to play sports the way they do in the West. If a child in our country returns from the playground, he is not asked by his parents how he fared, but slapped for missing his studies and wasting his time. Sport is against our Indian ethos, our cultural tradition."

It has been estimated that less than 2 per cent of schools have playgrounds and even these are not the sort of playing fields common in the West, but just a little piece of open land where the children can run about.

Matters are not helped by the fact that education is not controlled centrally but by the various state governments. This leads to a profusion of policies, with sport often falling between the two stools of the centre and the state.

Unlike other countries, Indian politicians have historically shown little interest in sport. The Commonwealth Games are due to start in Delhi the day after India celebrates the birth of Mahatma Gandhi.

Yet the man venerated as the father of the Indian nation never concealed his aversion to sport – a fact that he frankly confessed in his autobiography. Indeed, in 1932, when Indian hockey ruled the world and Gandhi was asked for help in funding the team's participation in the Los Angeles Games, the "great-souled one" famously enquired: "What is hockey?"

The contrast with China and Mao could not be starker. The first paper Mao wrote back in 1917 was about the importance of sport.

In language that the Victorians, who popularised sport in this country, would have understood well, he said: "It is absolutely right to say that one must build a strong body if he or she wants to cultivate inner strength." For Mao, sport was also part of state policy, as he demonstrated in the 1970s by using "ping pong" diplomacy to seek a rapprochement with Richard Nixon and the United States.

The great Indian savant Swami Vivekananda did once advise his countrymen that they would find God more easily if they played football rather than spent hours studying the Gita – the Hindu bible – but his was a voice in the wilderness. Jawaharlal Nehru did his bit for sport and cricket in particular, not least by keeping India in the Commonwealth – a decision which went against the policy of the ruling Congress Party. But, unlike China, sport in India was never part of any centrally-driven policy.

This sports vacuum has been ideal for bureaucrats and low-level politicians, who have found sport a useful base upon which to build public support. Their path has been helped by the fact that, cricket apart, former Indian sportsmen and women have little or no involvement in running sports organisations, and most sports, particularly those contested at the Olympics, do not attract much commercial support.

For years Indian football was run by a Calcutta-based politician, while Suresh Kalmadi, a former pilot in the Indian Air Force and a Congress politician who is organising the Commonwealth Games, used Indian athletics and then the Indian Olympic Association to build his powerful base.

Even in cricket, which has always had upper- and middle-class support – having been sponsored by the Indian princes and then by Indian business – politicians are playing an increasingly important role.

Where once former cricketers were involved in running the sport, now it is powerful politicians like the current leader of Indian cricket and world cricket, the Indian cabinet minister Sharad Power. While his political clout cannot be doubted, there is nothing in his background which suggests much of an involvement with the game.

The most galling thing for the Indians is the contrast this provides with China, which used the 2008 Beijing Olympics as a giant coming-out party, proving that it could beat the West at its own sports. The tragedy for India is that, whatever happens in Delhi over the next few weeks, the world will conclude that this is another area where India cannot match its Asian rival.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/why-india-is-a-bit-player-in-the-world-of-sport-2087034.html

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Nice looking stadium,

I’m impressed by the over all look of the venues

The stadium has been there since 1982 with some recent renos. But what? Have you not seen the pics from the village? You choked and gagged over the London 2012 logo, but this impending disaster in Delhi has you "impressed"?

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They're not going to cancel, and I suspect for the most part things will be ok (no more than ok, and I doubt we'll see anything like a hitch-free Games, but I suspect the worst case scenarios being talked about during Games-time won't come to fruition).

Athletes are already arriving, they've got thousands on the job of cleaning and completing the accommodation that, disgracefully, isn't yet done and very little - beyond the screams of the tabloids - suggests to me there's any real chance of a cancellation.

The Games are seriously tainted but they'll bumble along until the closing ceremony, after which we'll all agree the Games were a model example of how not to prepare for a large sports event, but concede that they were generally not that bad despite everything.

That's my prediction for the next few weeks anyway.

I might be wrong of course. And the sad thing is I'd be much less surprised if I'm wrong and it's a complete shambles than if I'm wrong and it's superb.

:rolleyes:

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Nathan Robertson expects Games to run smoothly

Nathan Robertson expects Games to run smoothly

I have to say I agree

London 2012 will have to cross its fingers and hope nothing embarrasses us in the run-up to 2012 we may be ahead with the venues , but there could be plenty of as yet unforeseen problems not to mention unexploded bombs that could go off in our faces if we are complacent.

There is a huge difference though. Every report on the lead up to Delhi 2010 has (for years) said they are behind schedule, whilst every report I've seen on London says they're well ahead of schedule.

Plus of course the IOC won't turn up a week before the games to see if everything is finished.

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They're newly built, although some of the debris and dirt can be attributted to the recent Monsoon rains. However, you do think they would have had a decent drainage system for the village.

So a monsoon went thru there, but it makes you wonder how the dogs (or whatever animals it was) got in there. :blink:

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The stadium has been there since 1982 with some recent renos. But what? Have you not seen the pics from the village? You choked and gagged over the London 2012 logo, but this impending disaster in Delhi has you "impressed"?

Well no one can say it hasn’t been tested its hosted every thing,

And I just compared pictures of the original stadium and the new revamped stadium and the roof design is brilliant

Making full use of the triangular structure around ,

It has more finesse than the London 2012 stadium,

And Delhi has had a multipurpose stadium since the 1980s something London has been having the up most difficulty in creating, (lets not mention Wembley and the missed world athletic championships)hopefully our 2012 stadium will be the multi purpose venue we need.

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Just in case anyone gets all warm and fuzzy about the supposed progress being made with the remediation on the village, read this story and consider why the feck these games are going ahead at all:

Now child labour scandal hits Delhi CWG

2010-09-23 16:30:00

It has now emerged that children have built some parts of the alleged crumbling stadiums of the XIXth Commonwealth Games.

According to a Daily Star report, tots as young as three were drafted in to work on dangerous building sites to prepare for the event in Delhi.

A two-year-old girl was among up to 1,000 people killed during construction after her dad brought her to work.

Even as Games bosses try to patch up their stadiums, the child labour scandal has caused new fury around the world.

Parents working on the sites were paid in extra bread and milk if they brought their children along to help out.

One 15-year-old lad employed at the main stadium, Sri Prakash, complained the work was tough.

Pre-school children were forced to shovel pebbles into bags, which were then carried away by older children, witnesses said.

Officially 42 workers have died during construction, but sources said the true figure was "much, much higher".

Asked how many people could have died, the source replied: "It could be pushing 1,000."

Local laws say 10 percent of construction fees must go towards worker safety, but reports said that of the 5.2 million pounds set aside, just 3,200 pounds had been spent. (ANI)

Indians everywhere as well as the CGF and even athletes should feel remorse and disgust at having this farcical and redundant event which has lurched from crisis to crisis with no value whatsoever mounted on the backs of such egregious exploitation and neglect of children and the poor. If this was occurring in any of the countries most of us come from we would be wanting and hopefully seeing parliamentary investigations and criminal court cases proceeding, and we would be ashamed to have such an event come at such a cost. However the elusive Kalmadi, Dipshit and the rest of the Indian boosters seem to have no remorse, no morals, no ethics.

Disgusting...

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They're not going to cancel, and I suspect for the most part things will be ok (no more than ok, and I doubt we'll see anything like a hitch-free Games, but I suspect the worst case scenarios being talked about during Games-time won't come to fruition).

Athletes are already arriving, they've got thousands on the job of cleaning and completing the accommodation that, disgracefully, isn't yet done and very little - beyond the screams of the tabloids - suggests to me there's any real chance of a cancellation.

The Games are seriously tainted but they'll bumble along until the closing ceremony, after which we'll all agree the Games were a model example of how not to prepare for a large sports event, but concede that they were generally not that bad despite everything.

That's my prediction for the next few weeks anyway.

I might be wrong of course. And the sad thing is I'd be much less surprised if I'm wrong and it's a complete shambles than if I'm wrong and it's superb.

:rolleyes:

Yeah, that's probably my prediction as well. There's always gonna be a taint about them, and Delhi's often going to be cited as the text-book example of how NOT to organise the run-up to a mega sporting event. But in the wash-up, I expect in three weeks time the games will be winding down and probably ... well, not be exactly described as an "exceptional dream games", but will have done enough to get a pass. And yeah, the bigger surprise will be if they're superb, but I think the run-up has already made that tag almost imposible to get.

Those pictures look incredibly bad , but I would also like to se the best parts of the village , I’m sure its not all like that,

Yeah, apparently it's all a bit patchy, with the parts that were completed latest the most in disarray.

Australia, for example, apparently got in quick and staked out its claim for one of the first areas of the village that was completed, right near the main dining halls. Which is why you're not hearing much complaints about the accomodation from Oz. Security seems to be the main concern here.

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It also has to be said that turning the games in to a disaster by not going wont help any one in India

Let's get one thing perfectly straight; the prime responsibility for these games descending into the farce that they are are the Indian authorities who have consistently and blatantly avoided deadlines, ethical work practices, safety concerns, responsibilities to their own citizens as well as the thousands of overseas visitors who have been planning to attend these games. The Indian authorities have demonstrated time and time again a breath taking capacity to dissemble, obfuscate, boast and deny whenever they have been asked to actually deliver something that we in the developed world would take for granted. They are the ones who have turned the 2010 games into a disaster, and you can't expect their criminal ineptitude to be then rewarded with people attending and being polite about how nice the stadiums look.

There are times when you need to call a spade a fecking shovel and say that the games should be at best delayed and at worst abandoned. It is the moral thing to do, it is the right thing to do. If everyone just blithely accepts the farce and attends they will be just as culpable in allowing the morally bankrupt politicians and organisers involved in Delhi 2010 to get away with murder (both figuratively and literally). And before you argue that it is an insult to the work of the Indians and their hospitality take a look at this:

Commonwealth Games: It's not party time for the Indians either

(snip)A recent poll by a leading national daily, Times of India, found that 76% of Delhi residents felt that the $3 billion cost of the Games – many times the original estimate – was completely unjustified. About half the people polled felt that the preparation for the Games had disrupted their lives in a major way.

A survey by another leading national daily, The Hindustan Times (in association with market research organisation Cfore) is equally damning. An overwhelming 68% of Delhiites felt that the Games made them feel ashamed (compared to 17% who felt indifferent, and a mere 15% who felt proud). A resounding 66% felt that the Organising Committee was chiefly responsible for the mess; and depressingly enough, less than half the people interviewed said they would actually watch the Games.(snip)

Full article here

If the locals have such a loathing for these ruinous games then why should anyone in good conscience support their continuance?

You can excuse the pursuit of bread and circuses in societies where there is the some degree of social conscience and a capability of the economy and the polity to meet most if not all of the needs of the people. However if anyone can justify these CG's continuance in terms of it making the average Indian's lot better they will be superior in intellect and ethics than the combined attendees of a MENSA conference

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Just in case anyone gets all warm and fuzzy about the supposed progress being made with the remediation on the village, read this story and consider why the feck these games are going ahead at all:

If please if this kind of stuff is going to mean the games get cancelled, than the Beijing Games would have collapsed once the little girl started to sing mime.

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If please if this kind of stuff is going to mean the games get cancelled, than the Beijing Games would have collapsed once the little girl started to sing mime.

If you mean that Beijing's Games were also morally compromised by the work and social practices of the Chinese authorities and organisers I agree. If it means they should have been cancelled on these criteria alone then that's a ridiculous point because they are over and done with. You can't rewrite history, and whilst the choice of Beijing was wrong on so many levels (like Moscow's and Berlin's) they are now in the past. Delhi on the other hand is still in the future and people still can affect change by demonstrating the ethical and moral bankruptcy of the Indian organisers and politicians by not attending or even asking for the games to be cancelled.

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Beijing did some morally questionable things, but to my knowledge there was no use of child labour.

How could the Federation have let this happen in Delhi? They should have issued an ultimatum to the organizers over a year ago and pulled the games if there was anymore evidence of more child labour.

I feel a sense of shame living in a commonwealth country.

If this is India trying to show itself on the world stage, it must understand that developed nations don't exploit children and we take workplace safety very seriously.

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If this is India trying to show itself on the world stage, it must understand that developed nations don't exploit children and we take workplace safety very seriously.

And developing countries do? I mean seriously, get off the high horse and think. Developed countries have the luxury to tell people that young children should not work since they have the economic ability to rely on the working population to keep the country going. The less developed countries, in particular the least developed countries where mortality rates remain high, getting children to partak in work is seen no differently from getting children to contribute to doing housework. And they do so out of sheer neccesity for basic survival, and not to exploit them.

I am not saying that I condone true exploitation of child labour, but Jesus do you guys not take geography, history or social studies while you were in secondary school? Do you jump immediately to conclusions and make damning remarks just to look good?

And the biggest irony is that here I am teaching geography from a syllabus which has largely evolved from who else but Cambridge in England!

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If you mean that Beijing's Games were also morally compromised by the work and social practices of the Chinese authorities and organisers I agree. If it means they should have been cancelled on these criteria alone then that's a ridiculous point because they are over and done with. You can't rewrite history, and whilst the choice of Beijing was wrong on so many levels (like Moscow's and Berlin's) they are now in the past. Delhi on the other hand is still in the future and people still can affect change by demonstrating the ethical and moral bankruptcy of the Indian organisers and politicians by not attending or even asking for the games to be cancelled.

Hmmm. I know it's not always a popular opinion, but I certainly have no qualms about the likes of Beijing being awarded the games. Again, I would have enthusiastically voted for them if I'd been an IOC member, and wouldn't have apologised for doing so. I do go by the notion that the Olympic are the games for the Youth of the World, not just the youth of the western liberal democratic world, and it would be a huge double standard to say to a country; "Yes, we'll let you compete, but don't even think about asking to host until you have a government that more suits my tastes and inclinations". Plus, if it comes to how to deal with a totalitarian regime, I believe it's better to engage with them, and hopefully lead them that way, than to isolate them. It's not like China, Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany came out of their games smelling of roses - I'd say in those cases the games raised awareness of issues like Tibet and censorship, the invasion of Afghanistan and the oppression of the Jews moreso than if those editions had been Barcelona '36, LA '80 or Toronto '08.

Edited by Sir Rols
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deliver something that we in the developed world would take for granted.

And I suppose that just reminds me of why the CWG will never raise in stature.

Even I, coming from a place many would consider "developed", perhaps even more developed than England itself according to some Englishmen, would not make statements like that. It reeks of arrogance, insensitivitiy, ungraciousness, and ignorance, and I thought we have people here (including myself) who were disgusted by the arrogance of the people in charge in India?

I am becoming utterly sick of the opportunisitic few who appear determined to see this games fail just to ram home the point that the CWG should just cycle through the white developed countries.

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Hmmm. I know it's not always a popular opinion, but I certainly have no qualms about the likes of Beijing being awarded the games. Again, I would have enthusiastically voted for them if I'd been an IOC member, and wouldn't have apologised for doing so. I do go by the notion that the Olympic are the games for the Youth of the World, not just the youth of the western liberal democratic world, and it would be a huge double standard to say to a country; "Yes, we'll let you compete, but don't even think about asking to host until you have a government that more suits my tastes and inclinations". Plus, if it comes to how to deal with a totalitarian regime, I believe it's better to engage with them, and hopefully lead them that way, than to isolate them. It's not like China, Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany came out of their games smelling of roses - I'd say in those cases the games raised awareness of issues like Tibet and censorship, the invasion of Afghanistan and the oppression of the Jews than more if those editions had been Barcelona '36, LA '80 or Toronto '08.

And what an excellent post this is! Triple thumbs up signs! B)

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