High Speed Trains

[Guardian 22]

Baron, do you think both the Boston-Washington corridor and the possible Californian one be the only places to have high-speed trains in America or could there be other possible locales, like Florida?

[baron-pierreIV 1691]

Baron, do you think both the Boston-Washington corridor and the possible Californian one be the only places to have high-speed trains in America or could there be other possible locales, like Florida?

I dunno about Florida, but I think they were thinking of one for Texas linking Dallas - Houston - San Antonio - Austin. Logistically that one would be easeir to build because Texas is basically flat, but they may not have the population to sustain it -- even tho they are #3 (or #4) in population already. If and when the Calif one ever gets built, the population in Calif might be hitting 38,000,000 by then. Well, maybe it'll be ready by Reno-Tahoe 2022 (altho it won't get that far).

[Tanaka_Ray 0]

How abot a rapud trans between east side to the west side of USA ?

[baron-pierreIV 1691]

How abot a rapud trans between east side to the west side of USA ?

I think that's totally, economically unfeasible. Just fly -- there are like 30 coast-to-coast flights each day. Or you do it the slow way: take your time to enjoy the scenery and the experience. It makes absolutely no sense to have a high-speed train covering 2800 miles. I won't even begin to talk about security issues.

Overall, the bullet rapid trains are great for the smaller, denser countries like Germany, Japan and France -- where the distances are 2-3 hours apart at the farthest points. It doesn't make sense for larger countries like the US, China, Canada, Brazil, Australia. I won't even begin to talk about Russia. That's where the aviation industry comes in.

[Guardian 22]

Yeah. I would have trouble seeing a cross-country high-speed train service for America. For Texas, I can see that happening. Also, it would be interesting and costly, if there was the idea to connect the current Boston-Washington DC line south toward Florida in the future.

[Sir Rols 1899]

A big blow to Maglev technology:

FRANKFURT, March 27, 2008 (AFP) - Germany abandoned a showcase high-speed levitation train project in Bavaria on Thursday owing to soaring costs in a blow to the country's image as a leader in technology and the rail industry.

Transport Minister Wolfgang Tiefensee said ``an explosion of costs'' had put an end to plans to link Munich and the Bavarian capital's airport with the country first magnetic levitation (Maglev) rail line.

The premier of Bavaria, Guenther Beckstein, said he had ``feverishly'' lobbied Tiefensee and Chancellor Angela Merkel to increase the federal government's contribution to over a billion euros but to no avail.

``This is a bad day for Germany's image as the home of high-tech industry,'' Beckstein said.

The project would have cost between 3.2 billion and 3.5 billion euros (5.0-5.5 billion dollars), nearly double the original estimate of 1.85 billion euros, Tiefensee told a press conference.

``We had to conclude that plans to construct the Transrapid in Bavaria have failed,'' Tiefensee said.

The only operating Transrapid line at present is in China where the Maglev whisks travellers between Shanghai's financial district and the city's Pudong airport along a 30-kilometre (19-mile) track.

Tiefensee said he hoped that the Transrapid would still be exported to other nations with fewer existing transport options and different economic conditions.

``We believe that apart from China other clients will be found and the federal government will support these initiatives,'' he said.

The government had agreed to carry half of the cost for the train line, but no more than 925 million euros, while the state of Bavaria was to pay up to 500 million euros.

``The federal government is not prepared to increase its contribution. We had to conclude that it is not possible to finance this project,'' Tiefensee said.

The project would have linked Munich's city centre with the airport 37 kilometres away and whittled down the trip from 40 minutes at present to just 10 minutes.

The Transrapid train, designed and built by engineering giants Siemens and ThyssenKrupp, is capable of running at 450 kilometres per hour.

But its image was dealt a severe blow in September 2006 when a test train collided at 170 kilometres an hour with a parked maintenance vehicle on a track near Lathen, a western town near the Dutch border.

The accident claimed 23 lives. German prosecutors late last year brought charges of manslaughter through culpable negligence against three Maglev employees.

Prosecutors say that a communication failure caused the accident because the control room operator at the test track had ``simply forgotten'' to tell the driver that the maintenance vehicle was still on the track.

The disaster disrupted efforts to market the revolutionary train that ``floats'' above its track.

The only operating line at present is in China where the Maglev whisks travellers between Shanghai's financial district and the city's Pudong airport along a 30-kilometre track.

Plans to build a Transrapid in Europe were on hold after the Lathen crash, until September 2007 when the Bavarian government secured funds for the Munich line and signed industrial contracts to get it off the ground.

The project appeared to be unpopular with the public and in November some 13,000 people marched through the streets of Munich and called for it to be binned.

[Citius Altius Fortius 560]

A big blow to Maglev technology:

well - I think it is not good, that there is no transrapid line in Germany!!!

It is a pitty that forward looking german technology is used in the PR China only - and I am sure that it is just a question of time until China will offer a "chinese maglev train" (like every time, when something is produced in China)...

Back to the cancelled transrapid line in Munich - I think that this line between Munich airport and central station wouldn't have been the right line for such a technology - it is definitely too short!!!

I hope another line will be find in future, which is more appropriate!!!

[Sir Rols 1899]

well - I think it is not good, that there is no transrapid line in Germany!!!

It is a pitty that forward looking german technology is used in the PR China only - and I am sure that it is just a question of time until China will offer a "chinese maglev train" (like every time, when something is produced in China)...

Back to the cancelled transrapid line in Munich - I think that this line between Munich airport and central station wouldn't have been the right line for such a technology - it is definitely too short!!!

I hope another line will be find in future, which is more appropriate!!!

Wasn't there talk of a Hamburg-Berlin lien?

[Citius Altius Fortius 560]

Wasn't there talk of a Hamburg-Berlin lien?

Yeah - that would have been a great link, but the german government decided in 2000 that the Deutsche Bahn should dismantle its tracks between Hamburg and Berlin into a high speed train track..

[baron-pierreIV 1691]

It is a pitty that forward looking german technology is used in the PR China only - and I am sure that it is just a question of time until China will offer a "chinese maglev train" (like every time, when something is produced in China)...

The question is: will there be a market for it? I mean the technology's been available for a couple of years now; but it seems only that Shaghai airport link is the only taker. I mean can the secure the tracks so that no one can just throw a piece of metal there and jeopardize the whole thing?

It appears to be a highly vulnerable set-up and not worth the trouble and expense -- kinda like the Concorde. Became obsolete in a few years time.

[Guardian 22]

Spain to have the most extensive high speed train system in the world?

Link: BBC: Trains In Spain Signal The Future

P.S. Quote from article: "Next year, the government boasts, Spain will overtake Japan and France to become the world leader, measured in kilometres of high speed line."

[Chateau Petrus 19]

I tried the MAGLEV in Shanghai last year during my Olympic trip.

Although they stipulate they are able to reach easily the 450 kmph speed, the maximum I experienced was 343 (they're is digital speed indicators in each wagon).

Event at the maximum speed, it was a very very smooth ride with absolutelly no vibration.

Nice experience for only 50 yuans (7$US or 5 euros)

[thatsnotmypuppy 558]

I've been on the Maglev too - but we went way faster than 343km/h -

[aluz 36]

I think that's totally, economically unfeasible. Just fly -- there are like 30 coast-to-coast flights each day. Or you do it the slow way: take your time to enjoy the scenery and the experience. It makes absolutely no sense to have a high-speed train covering 2800 miles. I won't even begin to talk about security issues.

Overall, the bullet rapid trains are great for the smaller, denser countries like Germany, Japan and France -- where the distances are 2-3 hours apart at the farthest points. It doesn't make sense for larger countries like the US, China, Canada, Brazil, Australia. I won't even begin to talk about Russia. That's where the aviation industry comes in.

I totally agree with you and would add that even in Europe those train links do not prove profitable. Normally a flight between two cities in Europe is cheaper and faster than a high-speed train link. Not to mention the profitability... All low-cost are carriers are private unlike the rail companies.

[Citius Altius Fortius 560]

All low-cost are carriers are private unlike the rail companies.

... that is an illusion - the low-cost carriers are profitable since the communities, where their destinations/departures are, subsidise them indirectly - without this money the low cost carriers won't been able to fly profitable...

[Rei 9]

By the end of this year Italy will finally complete its 1000km high-speed section from Torino to Salerno.

A Milan-Rome high-speed run (no-stop) will soon take about 3h (2h40m in the upcoming years).

ETR600

[baron-pierreIV 1691]

By the end of this year Italy will finally complete its 1000km high-speed section from Torino to Salerno.

A Milan-Rome high-speed run (no-stop) will soon take about 3h (2h40m in the upcoming years).

ETR600

To Salerno? How will the trains get to Sicilia? R they building a tunnel? Rails on the Ionian Sea?

[Rei 9]

Salerno is not in Sicily. It's near Naples.

[baron-pierreIV 1691]

Salerno is not in Sicily. It's near Naples.

Oh, sorry. I occasionally get that mixed up with Palermo.

[Mikel 0]

Spain to have the most extensive high speed train system in the world?

Link: BBC: Trains In Spain Signal The Future

P.S. Quote from article: "Next year, the government boasts, Spain will overtake Japan and France to become the world leader, measured in kilometres of high speed line."

Swedish King and American Secretary of Transport, Ray LaHood were in Spain this year to see the high-speed train between Madrid and Barcelona and take ideas for their countries.

By 2010 the biggest cities in Spain will be connected all with Madrid by high-speed train (Barcelona, Seville, Malaga, Valladolis and Zaragoza are already connected, and Bilbao, Valencia and Galicia will be connected next year)

[ChiTown16 8]

I totally agree with you and would add that even in Europe those train links do not prove profitable. Normally a flight between two cities in Europe is cheaper and faster than a high-speed train link. Not to mention the profitability... All low-cost are carriers are private unlike the rail companies.

The argument about Europe having greater densities does not hold up - add up the population of the stops before the first TGV line (Paris-Lyon) and the stops after the TGV and it's pretty clear that France's population outside of Paris is pretty comparable to U.S. populations between major regional city pairs (Dallas-Austin, San Francisco-Sacramento, Chicago-St. Louis).

There are about 300,000 people in the cities served by the old French rail lines - an amount exceeded by the population between a number of the proposed U.S. high speed rail city pairs. The advantages of the train aren't just speed, though - it's convenience (city center to city center service), multiple intermediate city pairs (Springfield-Milwaukee or Madison-O'Hare, for instance), lower environmental impacts, lower operating costs, and lower spatial requirements (a 2 way high speed rail line is about the same width as a 2.5 lanes of a motorway but can sustain significantly higher speeds, greater numbers of people traveling at the same time, and manage congestion more effectively; also a track gate can be reused in less than 5 minutes rather than up to 40 minutes or more for an airport gate). The main benefits are the increase in intercity trade along the high speed rail lines; directly linking business, government, and research centers; and the increase in businesses in sustainable city centers served by effective transit.

Airlines to intermediate cities are often heavily subsidized by federal if not state and local governments and multi-billion dollar airports with dozens of years of long term bonds to not just pay for construction but also to mitigate the noise and traffic congestion that surround them. These costs are hidden from airline balance sheets and airline stockholders by the responsible governments and airport authorities. Airlines quickly become unprofitable as their incremental costs (non-airport terminal capital, non-runway capital, non-air traffic controller fees, non-security) increase due to contract negotiations, increases in fuel, or increases in maintenance costs - federal and state government often step into bail out the airlines to maintain competition.

CHItown '16

[Guardian 22]

Well, China has the fastest high speed trains now.

Link: China's Rail Development on Faster Track From China View.

[baron-pierreIV 1691]

/\ Those Chinese trains are ungainly. They look like some toilet appliance on rails.

[Rei 9]

That might be the fastest but this one looks way nicer!

[gotosy 493]

Multi-million Euro train order marks 1,500 day countdown to start of Sochi 2014

December 30 - Siemens AG said today it has received an order from Russian Railways to build 54 regional trains that will be used for the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi, which open in exactly 1,500 days.

The industrial conglomerate, based in Munich, said the total order is worth €580 million (£517 million) with a "firm order" for 38 of its Desiro model of train ordered by Russian Railways, accounting for €410 million (£366 million).

A preliminary contract for another 16 trains has already been signed, with those being partially built in Russia.

It was further evidence that preparations are progressing swiftly as Russia gets ready to host its first ever Winter Olympics.

http://www.insidethegames.biz/index.php?op...s&Itemid=73