Beijing Olympic Cauldron

[Adister]

I've seen some pictures of what the couldron may look like, and there semms to be many differnt ideas. The most popular that I've herd of was the big ring in the middle of the stadium, but i also saw one that looked like an upside down spoon. weird. Ok so what do you think? I like the ring plane, just them there's the probly of how will you light it? Oh well they'll thin of something.

[baron-pierreIV]

I've seen some pictures of what the couldron may look like, and there semms to be many differnt ideas. The most popular that I've herd of was the big ring in the middle of the stadium, but i also saw one that looked like an upside down spoon. weird. Ok so what do you think? I like the ring plane, just them there's the probly of how will you light it? Oh well they'll thin of something.

Looks like you're on a roll today, adister.

Unless you have a contact in BOCOG's inner sanctum, crucial things like the cauldron probably won't be seen/known until a month or 2 before the actual OC, if at all. Further, unless it is designed as a separate structure, sitting outside the stadium, then it will be under wraps until the very last minute. So you'll probably have some 680 days of wringing your hands, ad, if you don't relax a litte.

Edited September 19, 2006 by baron-pierreIV

[micheal_warren]

Looks like you're on a roll today, adister.

Unless you have a contact in BOCOG's inner sanctum, crucial things like the cauldron probably won't be seen/known until a month or 2 before the actual OC, if at all. Further, unless it is designed as a separate structure, sitting outside the stadium, then it will be under wraps until the very last minute. So you'll probably have some 680 days of wringing your hands, ad, if you don't relax a litte.

thats right you will be lucky to see the cauldron before the opening ceremony

[Olympian2004]

I've seen some pictures of what the couldron may look like, and there semms to be many differnt ideas. The most popular that I've herd of was the big ring in the middle of the stadium, but i also saw one that looked like an upside down spoon. weird. Ok so what do you think? I like the ring plane, just them there's the probly of how will you light it? Oh well they'll thin of something.

How do you get those information? I mean, you're only 15 years old, you're American and you already have connections to the inner circle of BOCOG?

However, I don't believe in a ring of fire in the middle of the stadium. Unless it will be lifted to the roof level, it would hamper the athletics and football competitions on the field.

[micheal_warren]

How do you get those information? I mean, you're only 15 years old, you're American and you already have connections to the inner circle of BOCOG?

However, I don't believe in a ring of fire in the middle of the stadium. Unless it will be lifted to the roof level, it would hamper the athletics and football competitions on the field.

isnt there a rule that the caldrun has to be seen from out side the stadium?

[baron-pierreIV]

isnt there a rule that the caldrun has to be seen from out side the stadium?

Well, yes... the rule, I believe, states that the lighting and the Cauldron must be visible to everyone within the main Stadium. However, it always rises higher for logistical and safety reasons: it gets out of the way when it is raised on high, and nothing is likely to get singed when the damn thing is sitting quite high.

[micheal_warren]

Well, yes... the rule, I believe, states that the lighting and the Cauldron must be visible to everyone within the main Stadium. However, it always rises higher for logistical and safety reasons: it gets out of the way when it is raised on high, and nothing is likely to get singed when the damn thing is sitting quite high.

ok thanks for that

[ejaycat]

isnt there a rule that the caldrun has to be seen from out side the stadium?

I'm not sure where you might've gotten that idea... as I recall, the 1988 Seoul Olympics were probably the last Summer Olympics where the cauldron was within the stadium and not visible from outside.

Here's the cauldron lighting for the 1952 Helsinki Olympics:

And check out this pic of the cauldron lighting for the 1948 London Olympics:

Pretty low-tech, huh? They couldn't even finish or enclose the column so that you wouldn't be able to see the gas pipes from behind. This was only the 2nd time in the modern Olympics that a torch relay was done and someone stepped up to the cauldron and lit it, this first having been done, of course, 12 years earlier in Berlin.

An Olympic flame wasn't used until the 1928 Amsterdam Games, where a flame was lit on the tall tower adjacent to the Olympic Stadium, though I don't know how it was done, if it was already lit by the time the opening ceremonies started, or if it was somehow incorporated into their opening ceremonies.

Some contemporary pics of the stadium:

For the 1932 Los Angeles Games, the cauldron was lit during the opening ceremonies; US Vice-President Curtis declared the Games open, trumpeters atop the Coliseum peristyle played a fanfare, and then the flame lit up (but no one stepped up to it or anything). I recently checked out an amazing book from the L.A. Central Library, a very old book copyrighted 1933, thick and heavy, which chronicles the 1932 Olympics in detail, including venues, athlete housing and transportation, finance, and even gives a play-by-play rundown of the opening ceremony. I wish I could buy this book. Incidentally, the 1932 LA Olympics was financed by a voter approved state bond, and made a profit of over 1 million dollars even during the Great Depression... no other Olympics before it made a profit, and no other Olympics would make a profit again until the 1984 summer Olympics.

I know, I know, this should be a Beijing thread, but I tend to digress!

Edited September 23, 2006 by ejaycat

[baron-pierreIV]

Pretty low-tech, huh? They couldn't even finish or enclose the column so that you wouldn't be able to see the gas pipes from behind. This was only the 2nd time in the modern Olympics that a torch relay was done and someone stepped up to the cauldron and lit it, this first having been done, of course, 12 years earlier in Berlin.

I think the Amsterdam cauldron was lit at a certain point in the Ceremonies. Even for LA-32, I mean there is only a small canister there to hold the natural gas, or kerosene, or whatever they used in those days to sustain the flame.

For the 1932 Los Angeles Games, the cauldron was lit during the opening ceremonies; US Vice-President Curtis declared the Games open, trumpeters atop the Coliseum peristyle played a fanfare, and then the flame lit up (but no one stepped up to it or anything). I recently checked out an amazing book from the L.A. Central Library, a very old book copyrighted 1933, thick and heavy, which chronicles the 1932 Olympics in detail, including venues, athlete housing and transportation, finance, and even gives a play-by-play rundown of the opening ceremony. I wish I could buy this book. Incidentally, the 1932 LA Olympics was financed by a voter approved state bond, and made a profit of over 1 million dollars even during the Great Depression... no other Olympics before it made a profit, and no other Olympics would make a profit again until the 1984 summer Olympics.

Yeah, unfortunately, PROFITABLE Games is a term the good burghers of Lausanne quickly forget after they've been given their share.

Would that book be the Official Record of the '32 Games?

I'm also very curious to know if there is any existing footage of the '32 Opening Ceremony. I understand there was some Hollywood razzle-dazzle to it -- so essentially, the 1984 version was an updated, Technicolor version of it?

[ejaycat]

Would that book be the Official Record of the '32 Games?

I'm also very curious to know if there is any existing footage of the '32 Opening Ceremony. I understand there was some Hollywood razzle-dazzle to it -- so essentially, the 1984 version was an updated, Technicolor version of it?

Well, the book is called "Xth Olympiad, Los Angeles 1932: Official Report" and it was published by the "Xth Olympiade Committee of the Games of Los Angeles, U.S.A 1932, Ltd." So I guess it is the Official Record. But it's a great book, with lots of photos, even of the Olympic delegations. I didn't know that even the Philippines sent athletes over for the 1932 Games. And everyone in the book looks so dapper! And talk about a compact games. I guess this was the era when many of the events took place outdoors in the main stadium, like gymnastics. The LAPD Police Academy was the venue for shooting, the Riviera Country Club in Pacific Palisades was the equestrian venue... all but a few events were held within LA city limits. The only exceptions were sailing (Long Beach Harbor), rowing (Long Beach Marine Stadium, which still exists today and is the proposed rowing/canoeing venue for the LA 2016 bid) and cycling, which in 1932, was held at the Rose Bowl in Pasadena, where a specially designed track was constructed. Even back in 1932, traffic in LA was seen as a potential problem, but the transportation was highly organized and there were no glitches. Buses took the athletes from the village to their training sites and to the events. The Olympic Village was a revolutionary idea. In prior Olympics, the NOCs of the various countries had to find their own housing and transportation for their athletes, some staying at hotels, some at hostels, and some even staying on the ships that they traveled in. The 1924 Paris Olympics had a "proto"-Olympic village, made up of prefab cabins on someone's estate, but most athletes chose to find their own housing; and for those that did stay in the cabins, the athletes were segregated by nation; they did not mix. But the 1932 LA organizers created the first true Olympic village, where athletes of different nations were encouraged to mix together. But it was only for the men; the women athletes were housed in the swank Chapman Park Hotel on Wilshire Boulevard (demolished in the 1960s), but they too were provided transportation and food, laundry service, entertainment, etc. I read online that it wasn't until the 1956 or 1960 Games that men and women athletes were no longer housed separately.

From what I've read, the opening ceremony and closing ceremony too, was filled with all kinds of pomp and circumstance. The 1932 LA organizers were also the first to come up with the 3-step podium for the winners, and a medals ceremony where the winners are presented their medals on the 3-step podium and the winners' flags are raised while the gold winner's national anthem played. In prior Olympics, the winners of the event would be announced and the gold medal winner's anthem would be played, but the athletes weren't necessarily present during the playing of the anthem. The medals themselves were given to the athletes at the conclusion of the Games, and even then, some athletes would've already gone home by that point and would get their medals later. The LA organizers thought, 'why have two ceremonies, when you can combine them, plus it guarantees that the athlete will be there to receive their medals AND hear the national anthem.'

Even for LA-32, I mean there is only a small canister there to hold the natural gas, or kerosene, or whatever they used in those days to sustain the flame.

Actually, I believe there were natural gas lines/pipes for the cauldron. The Coliseum was originally designed and built without having the "Olympic Torch," as it is referred to in the book I borrowed from the library. My assumption is, after having seen what was done in Amsterdam, the 1932 LA organizers decided to add an Olympic flame element to the Coliseum. This is from the book:

The Olympic Torch: It was decided to erect a large torch above the central arch of the peristyle, so designed that it would fit in with the general architecture of the Stadium, embracing a special arrangement by which a flame could be lighted at an appropriate moment during the Opening Ceremony and kept burning continuously until the termination of the Closing Ceremony. This Olympic Torch, which was 107 feet high, was constructed of concrete surmounted by a bronze fixture in the shape of a bowl. After many experiments, a practical means was developed of producing a suitable flame which could be ignited and regulated from an invisible location and could be plainly seen both by night and by day.

Edited September 23, 2006 by ejaycat

[micheal_warren]

i remember hearing it from somewhere but where i dont no

[Kenadian]

The IOC charter says something like "where possible" should also be visible outside the area of the main stadium. The design of the stadiums in Montreal and Seoul didn't allow this and both had the cauldron based on the stadium floor. The design of the Beijing stadium will probably cause that to happen again, unless they attach it to the rim of the roof. I suspect it will be on a stage in the stands.

[baron-pierreIV]

I believe Mr. Birch is working on this very issue right now.

[Olympian2004]

The IOC charter says something like "where possible" should also be visible outside the area of the main stadium. The design of the stadiums in Montreal and Seoul didn't allow this and both had the cauldron based on the stadium floor. The design of the Beijing stadium will probably cause that to happen again, unless they attach it to the rim of the roof. I suspect it will be on a stage in the stands.

Or they'll follow Turin's example and construct a huge cauldron tower outside the stadium.

[rav3n]

Yeah, but Turin was different. The stadium don't have that height or roof as the Beijing Nest. If we built a cauldron tower outside the Bird Nest, it probably wont be visible. And is not just the height, but also the roof of the stadium (if the stadium were not totally covered (on the seats of course) i would support your idea). They could learn a little of the Doha 2006 Asian Games Cauldron (300 m)

Im fearing that it will happen something like the Atlanta 'French Fries'

[baron-pierreIV]

As Kendegra said, the Beijing Bird's Nest is much like Montreal's and Seoul in that they are enclosed bowls.

The Torino solution wouldn't work because if the tower will be behind you, you really wouldn't be able to see the lighting or the damn thing.

But I wouldn't worry. With Mr. Birch in charge of this portion again, they will find a way that will still surprise us.

[Rafa]

cauldron will sit at the centre of the stadium and be connected to the roof.