Jump to content

Uefa Cup


Rei

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 72
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Even though I would have liked to see West Ham win, I still had to laugh at this, a screen grab of the club's website from this morning (spotted by a member Spurs forum glory-glory.net). Read the AA banner ad:

wham.jpg

:D

Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I've heard it sounds like the West Ham "fans" were the cause. I'm sure you're right about there being Palermo thugs as well, but I'm not sure it's worth pursuing the argument too far this time around as, unfortunately, I think the English were the more guilty.

Such a shame that there is still a minority - albeit a smaller one than in the past - that f'cks things up for English football's image abroad.

:(

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, Rob, but I don't share your defeatist view. Just because there are some morons who wish to embarrass the rest of us does not give Rei or any other patronising do-gooding so and so the right to look down their nose and dismiss all of us the same way. I'm sick to death of it and I won't stand for it. Not now. Not ever.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with you completely about the attitude some foreigners have and hate their generalisations as much as you do! But cases such as what happened in Italy can't be dismissed by just saying 'the other fans were involved as well' when it is clear which set of "fans" were the cause of the trouble.

It is a sad thing that the 20 people who have been arrested, who probably share few of our values, and who are linked to us only by their nationality (well, as far as I'm concerned anyway), can lead normally rational people such as Rei to make ridiculous sweeping statements about "the usual idiots who make riots and troubles everywhere they go!" (i.e. the English).

It is horrible xenophpobic stereotype, but like all xenophobic stereotypes it is based on some truth - and that truth needs to be (and largely has been) dealt with by those who can deal with these things. Arguing the finer points of this incident and pointing out the obvious truth that Palermo also had thugs isn't going to stop Rei and others clinging onto their stereotypes.

I don't want to sound like I'm disagreeing with you Arwebb, because I think we actually share the same point of view when it comes to fooball hooliganism, but some of your earlier posts in this thread did have a whiff of denial to them regarding what happened before West Ham's match. I think your argument would be better if you were to actually say "yes, it was English people that caused this, BUT the vast majority of English fans aren't like them at all and I hate your suggestion that they are." Not that I want to put words into your mouth.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Denial of what, exactly? The only reports I've been able to find told of rival supporters throwing anything they could lay their hands on at each other, seemingly the usual kind of stuff. The way Rei was talking, you'd have been forgiven for thinking that the whole of West Ham had gone to Italy and raised Palermo to the ground and that's not the impression I have from what I have seen up to now. You may have seen different reports to me. It hasn't been that extensively covered from what I've seen up here.

This is not to say all those West Ham fans out there are totally blameless. Of course they're not and I hope nobody is foolish enough to think that I am suggesting otherwise. However, English and Welsh fans in particular haven't always been made to feel welcome in Italy in the past, have they?

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's disgusting..

I can't accept..

YOU (as noone) give me the Racist and xenophobic as you aren't better than me (and you have just highly demonstrated it in this thread)!

YOU give me YOUR lecture of the facts as the facts are clear to the most even to your neighbour Rob

YOU put in my mouth words I didn't say, nope think

let's be frank for once.. I was talking about HOOLIGANS not ENGLISH.

and yes the WM's hooligans provoked riots in PAlermo. whetever you like it or not.

ADDIO.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, back to topic. The pots for the draw:

Pot 1

75.95 Newcastle - England

66.587 Panathinaikos - Greece

63.02 Parma - Italy

61.006 Sevilla - Spain

60.64 Ajax - Holland

57.96 Bayer Leverkusen - Germany

54.64 Feyenoord - Holland

53.757 Aauxerre - France

Pot 2

49.981 Club Brugge - Belgium

49.537 Basel - switz

48.64 AZ Alkmaar - Holland

44.769 Sparta Prague - Czech

43.023 Rangers - Scotland

43.006 Celta Vigo - Spain

41.757 PSG - France

39.757 Lens - France

Pot 3

38.634 Besiktas - Turkey

36.02 Palermo - Italy

33.006 Espanyol - Spain

30.64 Heereveen - Holland

30.6 Partizan Belgrade - Serbia

30.381 Rapid Bucharest - Romania

29.104 Wisla Krakow- Poland

28.769 Slovan Liberec - Czech

Pot 4

28.634 Fenerbahce - Turkey

27.723 Austria Vienna - Austria

26.108 Hapoel Tel Aviv - Israel

24.912 Osasuna - Spain

23.95 Blackburn - England

23.537 Grasshoppers - Switz

22.381 Dinamo Bucharest - Romania

22.02 Livorno - Italy

Pot 5

20.95 Tottenham - England

17.533 Sporting Braga - Portugal

16.757 Nancy - France

15.96 Eintracht Frankfurt - Germany

9.981 Zulte Waregem

8.769 Mlada Boleslav

8.593 Odense - Denmark

The seeds are based on recent year's performances in Europe rather than the teams' chances of winning it, hence Newcastle being the top seed in pot 1 and Spurs only being in pot 5 with all the bottom seeds. A strange seeding system in some ways. Compare the seedings to the odds:

Sevilla 9/2

Tottenham 10/1

Ajax 14/1

Bayer Leverkusen 14/1

Osasuna 16/1

Palermo 16/1

Blackburn 20/1

Newcastle 20/1

PSG 20/1

Az Alkmar 25/1

Celta 25/1

Espanol 28/1

Fenerbahce 33/1

Feyenoord 33/1

Livorno 33/1

Panathinaikos 33/1

Parma 33/1

Rangers 33/1

Auxerre 50/1

Basel 50/1

Besiktas 50/1

Bruges 50/1

Lens 50/1

Rapid Bucharest 50/1

Nancy 66/1

Sparta Prague 66/1

Standard Liege 66/1

Grasshoppers 80/1

Braga 100/1

Dinamo Bucharest 100/1

Eintracht Frankfurt 100/1

Heerenveen 100/1

Partizan Bel 100/1

Slavia Prague 100/1

Maccabi Haifa 200/1

Link to post
Share on other sites
It's disgusting..

I can't accept..

YOU (as noone) give me the Racist and xenophobic as you aren't better than me (and you have just highly demonstrated it in this thread)!

YOU give me YOUR lecture of the facts as the facts are clear to the most even to your neighbour Rob

YOU put in my mouth words I didn't say, nope think

let's be frank for once.. I was talking about HOOLIGANS not ENGLISH.

and yes the WM's hooligans provoked riots in PAlermo. whetever you like it or not.

ADDIO.

What can't you accept? The truth?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hang on a second. Did I imagine it when I saw the disgraceful images of English fans being attacked by Italian police in Rome a few years ago? Did I imagine it when I saw Welsh fans being set upon in Milan in 2003? No, I didn't.

I'm not trying to paint all English football supporters as figures of virtue here. My goodness me, I've seen enough unpleasant characters in my years of following football to know that there are some pretty nasty sods about. But, at the same time, the vast majority of people that I have met over the years are decent people, who don't deserve to be vilified and insulted in such a manner.

It is they who I am defending and I will always, always, always defend decent law-abiding English football supporters against your pathetic, prejudiced, xenophobic stereotypes.

Link to post
Share on other sites

IDIOT I was referring to the HOOLIGANS, I've never mentioned ENGLISH fans, read carefully my previous post before speaking, IDIOT

ASSHOLE, I've only reported the facts!

and I don't remember a World/Euro championship where HOOLIGANS didn't provoke riots!

Link to post
Share on other sites
IDIOT I was referring to the HOOLIGANS, I've never mentioned ENGLISH fans, read carefully my previous post before speaking, IDIOT

ASSHOLE, I've only reported the facts!

and I don't remember a World/Euro championship where HOOLIGANS didn't provoke riots!

Do you have to speak like that towards anyone who doesn't agree with you? :D

In all seriousness, what you didn't like was the fact that morons on both sides were involved in the disturbances in Palermo. And you pedalled the same old myth about all English football fans being the same. I saw your postings for what they are.

By the way, any comments to make about the incidents I raised?

Link to post
Share on other sites
that last post was pretty pointless Rei

Rob, that's the least when someone attack and call you racist or xenophobic without know what you are talking about.. btw I'm sorry for my last post.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If I didn't know what I was talking about, you might have some justification for it. The fact that I have spent so many years travelling to football matches all over this country and mixing with thousands upon thousands of decent, law-abiding football fans means that, in my opinion and with all due respect, I am far better qualified to talk about English football fans than you.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What's the problem? Can't or won't argue anymore?

You were the one pedalling the picture of terrible English raising Palermo to the ground, not me. All the reports I saw of the incident suggested that what disturbances there were were pretty par for the course. And it always takes two to tango.

Now that doesn't mean I'm saying every single West Ham fan is blameless in this. I've said many, many times before in these forums that there remains a small element of troublemakers at most, if not all, English clubs. But that doesn't give you or anyone else the right to pedal myths about decent, law-abiding people. I can guarantee you that the vast majority of West Ham fans out there were there to support their team, not have their name and reputation dragged through the dirt by some morons and over-zealous stereotyping.

Were this 1986, and there was major fear around English fans, I might understand it. We've moved on. You should too.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Can't or won't argue anymore?

should I again? really? to someone who reverse what I say?

and for the third time (I hope to not repeat it for a forth) I was refering to the HOOLIGANS.. never mentioned the ENGLISH fans.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Now that is rich. You're not talking about the Palermo thugs who were involved and are simply talking about English people, pedalling the same old prejudiced bull.

Italian football also has a long-standing problem with hooliganism. It is clear that Palermo supporters were also involved. Why are you not talking about them? Why did you not answer my questions about the incidents I raised with you? Come on, let's hear some answers.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...