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All they need to do is have sherpas carry the torch to the top, whom naturally have larger heart capacities and can climb with relative ease. It will still be tricky and weather pending, but at least the runners wont have to depend on acclimation training.

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yea thats an idea but i still feel it is extremely dangerous, i like rotels idea about visiting base camp! I think that would be much safer for the relay. Does any one no how long it would take to climbe everest (a few days at least i feel). This would take up a lot of time and i wonder whether this would be feesible?

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Feasible in that regard, micheal? There hasn't any official word about how the torch is going to enter China from Greece yet, never mind worrying about if a Mt. Everest climb is even a good idea overall. Will there be some sort of international land Olympic torch route with other nations/entities to begin with, despite on what some of us in private are describing the possible "dangers" that could come up along the way in this matter? Remember how some Olympic torch routes in the past had to deal with various interruptions by some people with various grievances? If anything, Beijing 2008's torch relay could get really perilous because of China's current political, economic and social standings in the eyes of some people who have grievances against it in some issues. Some of that could explode into something BOCOG and the Chinese government does not have time to deal with and could end up being seen by the world's media. I hope you didn't forget how some topics here ended up being made after the IOC gave the 2008 Games to Beijing back in 2001. It will be an interesting time for sure.

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  • 1 month later...

Well, the Chinese Taipei issue "gets in the way" in whether the island is going to be in the Olympic torch relay or not. Oh, well. Guess we will wait for that decision and find out what the final design of the Olympic torch will be.

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It looks like the Everest may, sensibly, be reconsidered:

BEIJING, March 25, 2007 (AFP) - Preparations for next year's Beijing Olympic Games are running smoothly but future bumps in the road include the route of the torch relay.

Since the 1936 Games in Berlin, the torch relay has signalled the countdown to every Summer Games, with runners carrying the flame on a lengthy route to a cauldron in the host city that burns during the world's largest sporting event.

Beijing's version could be the most ambitious yet. A team of climbers are already in training to carry the sacred flame over Mount Everest, the world's highest peak, with a test climb planned for later this year.

Plans have also been touted to run the relay through Taiwan, Beijing's long-time diplomatic foe.

So far Beijing has won praise for flawless Olympic planning but some critics say that when it comes to the relay, organisers have lost sight of their original goal of staging ``a high-tech, green and people's Olympics.''

Hein Verbruggen, the head of the International Olympic Committee (IOC) team of experts who are advising Beijing on the staging of the Games, has praised China's organisational skills.

He recently described preparations for the August 8-24 Games next year as ``perfect'', according to the organising committee known as BOCOG.

Everything is ahead of schedule -- except the decision on the torch relay, which was due to be made last year but was put off until next month, when the IOC executive board meets in Beijing.

``I am sure that they will have a wonderful programme for the torch. I am sure that is the same high quality as with the other projects of the preparation,'' Verbruggen said.

But another IOC insider, without naming Beijing, said there was a tendency on the part of organising committees to try to outdo each other.

The Sydney torch relay in 2000 saw scuba divers carry the flame in a sealed baton over Australia's Great Barrier Reef.

The Athens relay in 2004 circumnavigated the globe and took the sacred flame to Africa and South America.

``Perhaps there is a temptation to try and outdo that,'' the insider said.

A recent commentary in China's official Youth Daily said the Everest plan should be revised.

China's Great Wall, a symbol of the nation's history and civilisation, would serve as a better destination, it said.

Climbing the 8,848-metre (29,028-foot) high peak with the Olympic torch and accompanied by camera crews presented an unacceptable risk to life and the ecosystem of the Himalayan region, it added.

Chinese officials, however, insist that the relay will pass over the world's highest peak although they may be forced to leave out Taiwan.

Authorities on the self-ruled island are reportedly reluctant to be included in the event on Beijing's terms, under which Taiwan would be considered part of the circuit within mainland China.

Beijing considers Taiwan a renegade province awaiting reunification with the mainland, by force if necessary.

AFP

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I'm actually amazed that Everest is being looked at seriously not just because of risk of life, but I would think that to get to China, they'd have to descend and enter through Tibet. I shudder to think of the political storm THAT will stir up.

You know, I really want the Olympics to go well, but I really think Beijing will be the greatest test the Olympics have ever faced.

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Well we are now on April, the month that BOCOJ promised to unveil the torch relay & final design of the torch, but i guess they are still studying if it is a good idea to make the relay in the Everest &/or Taiwan.

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Athens to Roma to Bacelona to London to Paris to Antwerp to Amsterdam to Stockholm to Berlin to Munich to Moscow on the Trans Siberian Express to Beijing, simple as that.

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Athens to Roma to Bacelona to London to Paris to Antwerp to Amsterdam to Stockholm to Berlin to Munich to Moscow on the Trans Siberian Express to Beijing, simple as that.

What about Olympia to Athens to Beirut to Damascus to Baghdad to Tehran to Quetta to Kabul to Lhasa to Beijing!

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What about Olympia to Athens to Beirut to Damascus to Baghdad to Tehran to Quetta to Kabul to Lhasa to Beijing!

I think it would go against Olympic principles to have a 100 armed guards around the flame at all times.

Mines actually doable

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Why would they use the Trans Siberian Express?

The most famous rail in the world that connects Europe and Asia, plus it takes 11 days to go from Moscow to Beijing I think, so it will be stretch out the event.

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The most famous rail in the world that connects Europe and Asia, plus it takes 11 days to go from Moscow to Beijing I think, so it will be stretch out the event.

Yeah, but most of that is on Russian territory. I don't think the Chinese would want to give the Russians, or anyone for that matter, that much 'show' time on the Torch route. I would think, for Russia, they would fly it into Moscow, run it there, and then fly it out again. I mean they would want to hit what? at least 100 cities and towns in China, right? You can't imagine how rigorous and demanding the support logistics of staging something like this can be. I've heard from people who have done it before -- and they say 'been there, done it;' and have no desire to repeat it again. And you're not even looking at the logistical/cultural requirements of taking it across many borders.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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Y You can't imagine how rigorous and demanding the support logistics of staging something like this can be. I've heard from people who have done it before -- and they say 'been there, done it;' and have no desire to repeat it again. And you're not even looking at the logistical/cultural requirements of taking it across many borders.

You're absolutely right.

I have met people who organized the international part of the Athens 2004 Torch Relay. And they were all like "Never again".

The IOC is actually not very keen on a global Torch Relay "a la Athens"....

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You're absolutely right.

I have met people who organized the international part of the Athens 2004 Torch Relay. And they were all like "Never again".

The IOC is actually not very keen on a global Torch Relay "a la Athens"....

Yeah! To use a pun, I think 'burnt out' :D is THE appropriate word for those who worked in the logistical/support trenches of these international Torch relays!!

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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Yeah! To use a pun, I think 'burnt out' :D is THE appropriate word for those who worked in the logistical/support trenches of these international Torch relays!!

I'm actually not up on the global relay portion of the Torch Run for 2004, what went wrong? Is it aside from the length and logisitics just not possible to do again?

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I'm actually not up on the global relay portion of the Torch Run for 2004, what went wrong? Is it aside from the length and logisitics just not possible to do again?

It's not a matter of 'what went wrong'. I think it's more a matter of what could go wrong! And the probability is very high. Also, the pay-off isn't enough for all the effort and risk put in. The Torch Relay is primarily just another 'show,' nice-symbolic piece of theatre about Olympic icons and imagery. Run on a small scale, it's fine. But with all these 'one host trying to outdo the previous one oneupsmanship' in terms of grandiosity and complexity, just doesn't make sense. The expense, effort and risks put in are just TOO great for the IOC and the Organizing Committee.

Just consider that at some point, someone drops the ball, so to speak, and a torch explodes in a carrier's face and burns 1 or 2 other innocent bystanders. Can you imagine the embarrassment this will cause the IOC, not to mention the possible lawsuits? It would be headline news all over the world, and everyone would question the IOC's priorities. And all only for a little piece of theatre. Remember, the Grand Masters of Iconic Pageantry, the Nazis, introduced and perfected this piece of pagan theatre.

It is also terribly hypocritical of the environmental aims of the IOC. While the little torch itself is nothing -- but the fuel expended by, usually, a 20+-vehicle caravan escort is just PLAIN outrageous and so...hypocritical; considering it is trying to make its sports competitions environmentally responsible, and here it is setting things off with a 20-or-so vehicle caravan plying a few thousand miles and for what, 90 or so days. I would like to see the petrol bills of the Athens Torch Relay. And all this for a fleeting glimpse of the Torch as it passes your street.

I'm not saying abandon the tradition. Just keep it to scale.

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Just for the records, the first plans for the Athens torch relay were talking about 70+ countries, and the Greek foreign ministry was in talks to allow the flame to pass from regions in war. Unfortunately I suppose the cost was extraordinary, so they cut the countries.

If Baron can help us, I think that the flame for Atlanta visited all previous host countries/cities before it reached Atlanta, or they gave the flame from Athens to all the previous hosts....

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If Baron can help us, I think that the flame for Atlanta visited all previous host countries/cities before it reached Atlanta, or they gave the flame from Athens to all the previous hosts....

A symbolic torch relay was organized in Athens at the Kalimarmaro Stadium when the HOC transmitted the Flame to the ACOG: a representative of each previous olympic host cities took part in this relay before the flame was given to Atlanta.

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A symbolic torch relay was organized in Athens at the Kalimarmaro Stadium when the HOC transmitted the Flame to the ACOG: a representative of each previous olympic host cities took part in this relay before the flame was given to Atlanta.

I don't recall much of the overseas route of the Atlanta 1996 Torch Relay (and I'm away from home -- am spending Easter with my parents down in OC; but I have the book at home written by Dick Yarborough, the main PR Officer of ACOG, and he had a whole chapter on the 1996 Torch Relay thing) but as Jeremie has said there was the small Torch relay in Greece with primarily Greek runners, and then I think -- it boarded a special Delta Airlines plane which flew straight to Los Angeles where the domestic 1996 Torch Relay began in front of the LA Stadium. And from then on, it was entirely a domestic US run - I think.

Will refer to that book when I return home on Monday.

But even Sydney's again, I think, (after the Greece portion) was just an Australian run -- was it not?

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But even Sydney's again, I think, (after the Greece portion) was just an Australian run -- was it not?

There was actually an Ocenian portion of the relay that visited all the NOCs of Oceania before the Australian portion.

International portions are not uncommon (the Mexico Olympic Flame visited Spain for example, Moscow Flame was carried across Bulgaria, Romania). But Athens remains the only "global" Torch Relay (and will probably remain so).

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Till Atlanta they lighted the Flame in Olympia, carried it to Athens and gave it to the organizing country.

For the first time in Atlanta (I guess because of the 100 years), they organized a torch relay in Greece (and I remembered that I went downtown to see the flame when it come to Thessaloniki), and they did the same for Sydney, Athens (of course) and Torino. I don't remember the flame passing from Thessaloniki for Salt Lake City.

But I'm sure that they did something with all previous host cities, like giving the flame to them and have it burn during the Games.

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