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Swimming Finals Might Be Held In The Morning


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A COMBINED AUDIENCE OF CLOSE TO 25 BILLION PEOPLE WATCH THE OLMYPIC GAMES WHEN THEY COME AROUND, THEY AIN'T ALL AMERICANS, IN FACT VIEWERSHIP BY PRESENTATION IS MUCH LOWER IN THE UNITED STATES THEN IN THE NEXT 14 NATIONS. SO NBC CAN SHOVE IT UP THEIR UPTIGHT FCC-BOWING ARSE

the best point of the day lol

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The only problem is NBC paid gazillions; there will be quite a bit of US swimming stars; so NBC has to get something for their money. If the IOC doesn't want their money -- and Stu don't you come back to me with but it's not just US money anymore <_< Well, in this case, it is. Most of the money has been paid for. Your situation is maybe in the next round or so. If the IOC can't accommodate their biggest financier, then they should give the money back.

What is it about you Europeans? Do we complain that the Games in Germany were not very convenient for us? No. As I said, those athletes will adjust. They are resilient.

Arwebb, don't live a vicarious life via these athletes.

A COMBINED AUDIENCE OF CLOSE TO 25 BILLION PEOPLE WATCH THE OLMYPIC GAMES WHEN THEY COME AROUND, THEY AIN'T ALL AMERICANS, IN FACT VIEWERSHIP BY PRESENTATION IS MUCH LOWER IN THE UNITED STATES THEN IN THE NEXT 14 NATIONS. SO NBC CAN SHOVE IT UP THEIR UPTIGHT FCC-BOWING ARSE

25 billion? How many galaxies did you include? I didn't know they sent the signal past our solar system. How much did the Intergalactic Broadcasting Union pay the IOC?

Uhmm... our planet has like 6.5 billion people. Maybe 1.5 billion MAY watch an Olympics -- some of it -- NOT ALL of it. Please don't twist the facts os blatantly, Faster. We ain't born yesterday. Faster, I may NOT vote for Scandinavia after this.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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I can understand maybe the Basketball finals being moved to accomodate NBC as that will have the biggest audience, most of the basketball heats are during the day anyway, the swimming is a different beast entirely.

I know some swimmers (one who went to Athens and medalled) and she is aghast at this. Swimmers likes the heats in the morning, then they can warm down, do some prep work early in the afternoon and then build up for the final after a rest. Having finals in the morning means they need to get up at 3am to start preps for a 9am race starting time. If they have heats the previous evening, the athletes wont tend to get to bed until after midnight.

This will affect the standard of performances across the board - and its not a matter of adjusting to this timetable as all the Mare Nostram events and lead up events are the standard morning heat/night final schedule. It is just impractical and isn't respectful to the athletes at all.

Local spectators will also be put out for the 7-8 days as so many events are scheduled for the mornings and early afternoon already - thus attendences will suffer elsewhere. You dont see the Europeans demanding Handball finals at 3am to suit their prime time. I know NBC pay alot - but their interim non Olympic swimming coverage is nil - so this sudden claim to benefit prime time viewers is a bit... ill informed.

Frankly a few top swimmers need to say they wont attend to get thsi stupid idea killed once and for all.

I'm not inflexible with start times for most sports - but swimming is just impractical.

Edited by thatsnotmypuppy
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I only hear of Americans defending NBC and saying things like - well give them some of their money back?????

They bid for it - it you over tender for something then it is your loss.

They want their cake and want to eat it as well, which sorry to say is a Typical attitude of many in the USA. Throw enough money at it is an attitude that many Americans I know in my industry try to do, and sometimes it is not about the money.

If these changes take place there will be a legal fight - and NBC is not going to come out looking pretty

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Just to sum everything up:

The most important issues for me at any Olympic Games is the comfort for the athletes and the attendance of the local audience. I absolutely don't care whether I can watch the swimming finals at noon CET or at night -- I'm experienced in "late night Olympic watching", too (I even stayed up all night for watching the Salt Lake 2002 closing ceremony -- although I had school the next morning).

However, both main issues (the athletes' comfort and the local attendance) are harmed seriously by NBC's stupid plans. After Athens 2004, it should really be avoided to have the ugly picture of empty stadiums again. And additionally to the unusual competition time for the athletes, their performances will also be harmed by a lack of atmosphere from the almost empty stands. Which Chinese can afford to leave his workplace early in the morning and watch an Olympic competition instead? Thus I understand the organisers' fury very well -- they want to present China in the best light but their plans are endangered by the snotty demands of one single American broadcaster.

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If the IOC doesn't want their money -- and Stu don't you come back to me with but it's not just US money anymore <_< Well, in this case, it is. Most of the money has been paid for. Your situation is maybe in the next round or so. If the IOC can't accommodate their biggest financier, then they should give the money back.

:D

Alright, I won't mention how European and Asian broadcaster contributions are growing at a far faster rate than those of the US or that Europe already pays a significant amount to the IOC - billions!

This, as you've hinted, could be a very short-sighted strategy by NBC and sets a precedent that could result in the Denver Winter Games in 2018 or the Minneapolis-St Paul Summer Games 2028 finding that their schedules could be altered to please the financing majorities in Asia and Europe - would you want a US Olympics with Gymnastics finals at 2am for the Asian networks and Track and Field finals at lunchtime for Europe? - Even your beloved Opening Ceremony would have to be held earlier in the day so that it's not too late for Monsieur Pomme-de-terre du sofa here in Europe!

Also if the Olympic Games are to be scheduled for the US television audience anyway there is no point awarding the US the right to host the event. (suddenly I have some sympathy for NBC's position!) ;)

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I can understand maybe the Basketball finals being moved to accomodate NBC as that will have the biggest audience, most of the basketball heats are during the day anyway, the swimming is a different beast entirely.

I know some swimmers (one who went to Athens and medalled) and she is aghast at this. Swimmers likes the heats in the morning, then they can warm down, do some prep work early in the afternoon and then build up for the final after a rest. Having finals in the morning means they need to get up at 3am to start preps for a 9am race starting time. If they have heats the previous evening, the athletes wont tend to get to bed until after midnight.

This will affect the standard of performances across the board - and its not a matter of adjusting to this timetable as all the Mare Nostram events and lead up events are the standard morning heat/night final schedule. It is just impractical and isn't respectful to the athletes at all.

Local spectators will also be put out for the 7-8 days as so many events are scheduled for the mornings and early afternoon already - thus attendences will suffer elsewhere. You dont see the Europeans demanding Handball finals at 3am to suit their prime time. I know NBC pay alot - but their interim non Olympic swimming coverage is nil - so this sudden claim to benefit prime time viewers is a bit... ill informed.

Frankly a few top swimmers need to say they wont attend to get thsi stupid idea killed once and for all.

I'm not inflexible with start times for most sports - but swimming is just impractical.

yea i suppose i can understand having basketball final during the day! But oyu make some good points here esapecially about the handball and te europeans! But yea swimming needs evening finals because that is what has always been and athletes are used to it and it would be highly unfair to change the rules only 2 years out from the games! Swimmers would need to change their entire training schedule in order to cope with morning finals! Also dont expect to see many world records set if this happens and it is a proven fact that more records are set in the evening than in the morning

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Baron 4 billion people alone watch the Opening ceremonies for at least one half hour. So that throughs your 1.5 billion out the window. Also I said combined audience, as in the viewership numbers from every half hour of every hour of everyday for all 17 days. As with the World Cup which had a viewership of 32 billion combined from all 64 matches. The same thing happens with the Olympics. Though other then the opening an closing ceremonies, for some events there is easily viewership of between 100 million and 500 million.

Think about it, how many hours would you say you watch per games. I beat that almost everyone on here gets counted in the ratings a good 100 times, the average sportsfan maybe 15 to 20 over the fortnight. So maybe about 1.5 billion people are responcible for all the ratings, but the combined ratings would still be a fair bit larger then the population of the earth because of the multiple counting.

Edited by Faster
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Baron 4 billion people alone watch the Opening ceremonies for at least one half hour. So that throughs your 1.5 billion out the window. Also I said combined audience, as in the viewership numbers from every half hour of every hour of everyday for all 17 days. As with the World Cup which had a viewership of 32 billion combined from all 64 matches. The same thing happens with the Olympics. Though other then the opening an closing ceremonies, for some events there is easily viewership of between 100 million and 500 million.

Think about it, how many hours would you say you watch per games. I beat that almost everyone on here gets counted in the ratings a good 100 times, the average sportsfan maybe 15 to 20 over the fortnight. So maybe about 1.5 billion people are responcible for all the ratings, but the combined ratings would still be a fair bit larger then the population of the earth because of the multiple counting.

OK; I understand now. But you can't really make any scientific deductions vis-a-vis the hardcore swimming events audience based on an aggregate combined figure like that. That's just too big a figure viewing 28 sports, 2 Special Events (Opening & Closing) to pin down your argument that a swimming US-based audience is small? Large? (No; mine is bigger!!) :lol: And what -- over 200 hours? And even with a sport-by-sport breakdown -- if you can come up with it, that would be great -- do the 'swimming' figures include 'diving' viewers or not? They always tend to lump those 2 together.

As for empty seats, I've always held that all the seats should be painted blue so that they can always digitally blue-screen in a 'virtual' audience -- thereby saving the IOC and the Org. Committee some embarrassment. B)

As for this BS about athletes being the primary focus. Bahhh. They're only secondary in my book. They get the free flights, free lodging and all that int'l exposure. That should be enough. They really shouldn't be too demanding. There are thousands of other wannabees who would take the place of these front-line prima divas.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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The simple answer is that NBC pays nearly a billion dollars for each Olympics (far more than any other country in the world), and the only way for them to recoup the costs is to rake in big, big dollars in advertising revenue. Knowing that audiences are much larger at night, advertisers don't pay nearly as much money to advertise during the day. In other words, for NBC, it's all about promising advertisers that they can get as many primetime viewers as possible.

The way to do this, of course, is to hold the major events until primetime. If people know the outcome but haven't actually seen the event, many of them will tune in. If people know the outcome because they have already seen the event, not nearly as many will tune in during primetime. I don't like it, but it's a business model that works pretty well for NBC.

The World Cup, on the other hand is always shown live here. This year's games were all live, shown in the late morning and early afternoon, and 2002's games were also shown live in the middle of the night (starting at 2 AM EST). The networks involved (ESPN and ABC) can air the World Cup live because they pay a mere fraction of what NBC pays for the Olympics.

That is NBC's problem and NBC's problem alone. They should not expect the IOC or the local organising committee to do their, or more accurately, their advertisers' bidding for them.

Why can't they just show the swimming finals again in primetime as they presumably have done in the past?

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That is NBC's problem and NBC's problem alone. They should not expect the IOC or the local organising committee to do their, or more accurately, their advertisers' bidding for them.

Why can't they just show the swimming finals again in primetime as they presumably have done in the past?

No; it's not NBC's problem alone. They have a contract w/ the IOC. The IOC is the other party who is benefitting from NBC's monies. So, as in any contract; you get something in return. NBC has paid premium dollars. They have a responsibility to their advertisers to turn in the best quality products. It is the IOC providing that content and is the beneficiary of NBC's money. So, the IOC has to give something in return for the jillions that NBC has given.

It's a simple contractual matter. If NBC cannot guarantee the audience numbers to its advertisers, then it cannot charge those high fees; and thus will not pay the IOC break-the-record figures the next time around. I don't think the IOC wants to step down from that podium. So, it's honest give-and-take. THe athletes and other NOC's will have to adjust. They adjust to jet lag; they'll adjust to new schedules. FGS's, these aren't senior citizens competing.

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The IOC is giving them something - namely the rights to screen Olympic action to the United States of America. That is hardly nothing. Companies want to be associated with the Olympics regardless of where they are held, so I don't accept the idea that NBC is going to struggle to attract advertisers.

Surely, when NBC signed the contract, they must have realised there was a chance the Games would go to inconvienient time zones for them and they should have allowed for that accordingly. To whinge and beg the IOC to move the goalposts to suit them now is not acceptable. Why should they get preferential treatment alone? If the IOC go for this, they prove themselves to be even more thick than any of us ever thought.

Whether you like it or not, Olympic athletes deserve better than to be messed about just to suit one TV channel. If you don't like it, tough. We have to watch events in the middle of the night often enough to suit America, after all.

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The IOC is giving them something - namely the rights to screen Olympic action to the United States of America. That is hardly nothing. Companies want to be associated with the Olympics regardless of where they are held, so I don't accept the idea that NBC is going to struggle to attract advertisers.

Surely, when NBC signed the contract, they must have realised there was a chance the Games would go to inconvienient time zones for them and they should have allowed for that accordingly. To whinge and beg the IOC to move the goalposts to suit them now is not acceptable. Why should they get preferential treatment alone? If the IOC go for this, they prove themselves to be even more thick than any of us ever thought.

Whether you like it or not, Olympic athletes deserve better than to be messed about just to suit one TV channel. If you don't like it, tough. We have to watch events in the middle of the night often enough to suit America, after all.

What would happen to the Olympics if NBC,ABC and CBS didn't bother with IOC. And Just show the Superbowl, World Series and College Football and yes even the World Cup?

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So, China, Japan, Australia, Canada, India, South Africa, Brazil, Spain, Britain, France, Germany, Russia, Italy, Sweden, Croatia, Greece, Turkey, and the other 201 nations that have contracts with the IOC that far outweighs what the US pays. CBC's current contract was 9 figures, the same is probably true of every major country.

The competition for the Olympic rights in the US is the reason they pay more then other countries were its one or two companies bidding. That is not the IOC's fault and the IOC, BOGOC and the athletes.

Also Coca Cola's contract with the IOC is in the low billions, so the IOC can survive without the US.

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Your right baron but my point is what would happen if all US TV casters turn their back on the IOC?

Then the IOC would have to scale down the scope of their Games. But this is highly unlikely. The US and the IOC have done very well with each other -- both in the playing field and in the financial field to keep the whole movement in clover for a long time.

So, Faster, Stu, it's so not easy to dismiss the 3rd most populous nation on the planet; probably the most sporting nation (in terms of medals won, so far, COMBINED both in Summer & Winter); and obviously right now -- the country from where the IOC gets most of its revenues. THey'd be stupid to bite the hand that feeds them. But we'll see; NBC doesn't always get its way.

My point is, NBC has legitimate grounds for asking this. As most of you have said, the IOC could turn them down eventually. Just dont F&CK around with OPening Ceremony & Indoor Volleyball. That's all I ask. Oh, but wait -- I expect to see OC live in 2 years' time.

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I don't expect the IOC to bite the hand that feeds them, I only want the people at NBC to be more respectful to the Olympic athletes and to only suggest alterations to the timetable that they would be willing to make if the Summer Games were to be in the US. Would NBC accept a foreign broadcasters demand to hold some of the major events at a time inconvenient for their athletes and their local spectators? No they wouldn't, and nor should they - so why should the traditional timetable for some of the events be turned upside-down just to suit one country?

At a time when the US should be considering how to forge allies within the IOC, as the 2009 Copenhagen meeting draws closer, they don't seem to have started on the right note. If NBC gets its way there will certainly be quite a few bitter people around.

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This seems to be the only thread where's there's a bit of action, passion and indignation happening.

This whole thing just smacks of hypocricy by NBC. They blame their falling viewership for the past few Olympics on bad time zones and lack of live medal events, when it was their CHOICE to go with tape delay, giving them time to put together their little story vignettes to pad out the action that they seem to think US viewers are so enamoured of. With Sydney, for example (about the same time zone as Beijing), they had plenty of morning medal finals they could have shown live in US prime time (including at least one day session of swimming finals). But, no, ALL had to go on delay. Ditto Athens. Actually European games are a bigger problem for them. US prime time is dark AM hours in Europe. I wonder if they're gonna demand 2-3am finals in London?

Actually, I wonder if this is more a negotiating stance by NBC. They know they are demanding too much, but are putting in an ambit claim in the expactation that they won't get their way but will be bought off with some other events.

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My point is, NBC has legitimate grounds for asking this. As most of you have said, the IOC could turn them down eventually. Just dont F&CK around with OPening Ceremony & Indoor Volleyball. That's all I ask. Oh, but wait -- I expect to see OC live in 2 years' time.

What possible grounds do they have? Inconvienience to viewers? Struggling to get advertisers (what a joke)? Not the IOC's problem. They must have realised this kind of situation could arise when they agreed the original contract. To ask for the goalposts to be moved now demeans both the event and themselves.

Stu is right. This is an issue of respect. In making this demand, NBC are showing little or no respect to Olympic athletes who deserve better than to be passed around from one time to another like a football just to suit what is, when all is said and done, one television channel.

It infuriates me when I sit until 2am to watch a boxing match taking place in the UK, so it can be shown prime-time in the US. The rest of the world doesn't revolve around US television, and nor should it.

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What possible grounds do they have? Inconvienience to viewers? Struggling to get advertisers (what a joke)? Not the IOC's problem.

Get off your high horse, arwebb, and take your blinders off. Of course it is the IOC's problem.

#1 - You don't know what the terms of the broadcasting contracts are. Yes, they may say that NBC (and other broadcasters) are buying into the Games knowing full well that they will be in different time zones. But it may also say that perhaps certain sports are up for negotiation. ANd as the IOC's biggest customer, yes, NBC can request that.

Further, the Games are the IOC's property; and they have the final say on how these are to be conducted.

#2 - The Olympics ARE a business. The sports are merely secondary. One cannot exist without the other. That's how I've always seen it. And you still don't get the equation that for the IOC to keep its revenues coming in at premium levels, it HAS to deliver some events for a particular customer that is suited to that market -- and a major market at that. And obvisouly, if you want to stay in business, you have to please your most lucrative customer some of the time.

For God's sakes, these are only athletes. They move on to other things after those 2 weeks. :rolleyes:

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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If only I was on one. I say what I think and I'll carry on saying what I think. If you don't like that, tough.

I don't know what the contracts say and, to be brutally honest, I don't care. My position is one that is based on a principal - television companies shouldn't be able to dictate to the organisers of the event how it is scheduled and organised. If the IOC wish to do things differently, that's up to them, but if they bow to this, then they really don't know what they're doing.

Business, partly. But the core of the Olympic Games is, and I pray will always be, the sport. That is what people all over the world tune in for. They don't tune in and say 'Oh, what a wonderful Coca-Cola advertising board' that is (insert company as applicable). They want to see athletes from their country winning Olympic medals. To the average man in the street, that is the be-all and end-all. As such, the Olympic Games should be, first and foremost, about the athletes and the hosts, NOT the television companies. Is that really so hard for you to accept?

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Business, partly. But the core of the Olympic Games is, and I pray will always be, the sport. That is what people all over the world tune in for. They don't tune in and say 'Oh, what a wonderful Coca-Cola advertising board' that is (insert company as applicable). They want to see athletes from their country winning Olympic medals. To the average man in the street, that is the be-all and end-all. As such, the Olympic Games should be, first and foremost, about the athletes and the hosts, NOT the television companies. Is that really so hard for you to accept?

I understand that. And indeed for the most part it should be sport. But remember -- at least for US audiences -- there is somebody paying for these broadcasts so one can enjoy free at home at, hopefully, a convenient and conducive time. That is my point. You're not GETTING any of these for free, really. Someone is paying for them -- and like any barter, you pay for what you get. If you're not getting what you want -- then the IOC should give some of those bux back. Simple as that.

That's just like this site. You wouldn't be accessing it for free if it weren't for the advertisers. ANd certainly the advertisers ask that they be allowed to put in all that spam. It's all part of the game.

BTW, since when did you become a big 'swimming' fan? I thought you were just into football and boxing. But see, swimming is just one of 28 sports that NBC is asking for special consideration. It's not like they're asking for the WHOLE Olympic timetable to be switched around. Geez, you guys make it seem like the Beijing clock will have to readjusted to one entity's request. One in 28, OK, two, if they're asking for Gymnastics, too, in 28 ain't so bad! You still have 26 that will be played in times that you like. I mean, Jeez Louise! :rolleyes:

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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So, China, Japan, Australia, Canada, India, South Africa, Brazil, Spain, Britain, France, Germany, Russia, Italy, Sweden, Croatia, Greece, Turkey, and the other 201 nations that have contracts with the IOC that far outweighs what the US pays. CBC's current contract was 9 figures, the same is probably true of every major country.

The competition for the Olympic rights in the US is the reason they pay more then other countries were its one or two companies bidding. That is not the IOC's fault and the IOC, BOGOC and the athletes.

Also Coca Cola's contract with the IOC is in the low billions, so the IOC can survive without the US.

wanna bet?....if they did survivie they wouldn't be half the event they are today.....

and I think whether you agree with this or not, NBC willl prevail in the end....

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I understand that. And indeed for the most part it should be sport. But remember -- at least for US audiences -- there is somebody paying for these broadcasts so one can enjoy free at home at, hopefully, a convenient and conducive time. That is my point. You're not GETTING any of these for free, really. Someone is paying for them -- and like any barter, you pay for what you get. If you're not getting what you want -- then the IOC should give some of those bux back. Simple as that.

That's just like this site. You wouldn't be accessing it for free if it weren't for the advertisers. ANd certainly the advertisers ask that they be allowed to put in all that spam. It's all part of the game.

BTW, since when did you become a big 'swimming' fan? I thought you were just into football and boxing. But see, swimming is just one of 28 sports that NBC is asking for special consideration. It's not like they're asking for the WHOLE Olympic timetable to be switched around. Geez, you guys make it seem like the Beijing clock will have to readjusted to one entity's request. One in 28, OK, two, if they're asking for Gymnastics, too, in 28 ain't so bad! You still have 26 that will be played in times that you like. I mean, Jeez Louise! :rolleyes:

Well that's progress at least. But you still haven't understood the point that NBC can show these finals at prime-time anyway. They can show them live, then show them again in the evening for those people who can't see them the first time round.

My problem with this is with the principal of it, as I alluded to earlier, and the precedent it sets. If NBC gets its way on this, is this going to be expected at future Games? And is there likely to be some sort of trade off next time the Games are in America? Somehow, I very much doubt the latter.

I am sick and tired of seeing sporting events in whatever field being shunted around just to suit television. Why, for once, can't television fit round the event?

As for my interest in swimming, well there are many things you do not know, that being one of them.

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