baron-pierreIV Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 They're dropping like flies. Another potential -- altho not as vocal as the Madrid supporters (more like briefs!! -- 2016 city has opted out of the race. So, pretty much at this point - the only so-called 'serious' candidate will be a Japanese city (probably Tokyo). Strong probable: a US bid city. Probables - loud, but not certain: Cape Town, Madrid, Monterrey Other possibles: New Delhi, Rio, a German city? Now, if only the German & SPanish cities would be a little more sensible, it's certainly looking good for a US candidate at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOlympiadsW Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 I am happy to see that Moscow has joined the list of "smart" European cities that are taking a practical approach towards 2016 and seeing that they stand "no chance of winning"..Italy has also joined this list, and Germany definately seems to be hesitant about 2016....if this isn't a message to other European cities considering to bid (or that one cough Madrid cough that rushed into it earlier this month) than I don't know what is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rastafario Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 This seems to me like a cool strategy in favor of Sochi, now with Moscow out, I'm sure we'll get to see more and more of Sochi steping out. Even though Sochi is not my personal favorite, I believe this could help them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted July 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 This seems to me like a cool strategy in favor of Sochi, now with Moscow out, I'm sure we'll get to see more and more of Sochi steping out.Even though Sochi is not my personal favorite, I believe this could help them. No, I don't think so. A non-prospective future bid really has no bearing on a current bidding Games of the other season. If I were an IOC member -- what? I will vote for the winter city of one country because they will NOT put up a Summer candidate? What kind of cock-eyed logic (or lack thereof) is that? How does that ensure that we are getting the best candidate for one set of Games? If anything, it should be the other way around. So this recusal of Moscow really has no bearing for 2007. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triffle Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 They're dropping like flies. Another potential -- altho not as vocal as the Madrid supporters (more like briefs!! -- 2016 city has opted out of the race. So, pretty much at this point - the only so-called 'serious' candidate will be a Japanese city (probably Tokyo). Strong probable: a US bid city. Probables - loud, but not certain: Cape Town, Madrid, Monterrey Other possibles: New Delhi, Rio, a German city? Now, if only the German & SPanish cities would be a little more sensible, it's certainly looking good for a US candidate at this point. Don't forget Toronto and Buenos Aires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ñuto Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 They're dropping like flies. Another potential -- altho not as vocal as the Madrid supporters (more like briefs!! -- 2016 city has opted out of the race. So, pretty much at this point - the only so-called 'serious' candidate will be a Japanese city (probably Tokyo). Strong probable: a US bid city. Probables - loud, but not certain: Cape Town, Madrid, Monterrey Other possibles: New Delhi, Rio, a German city? Now, if only the German & SPanish cities would be a little more sensible, it's certainly looking good for a US candidate at this point. the Moscow recusal is a strategy to help Sochi.if Sochi don´t win in Guatemala perhaps Moscow will change and return to the race... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOlympiadsW Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 as baron pointed out, this really isn't meant to nor will it help Socchi...it is just Moscow, unlike Madrid, being smart and practical about 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rastafario Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 as baron pointed out, this really isn't meant to nor will it help Socchi...it is just Moscow, unlike Madrid, being smart and practical about 2016 Madrid played the same card. After Jaca missing the short list, they anounced Madrid will bid for 2016. Now that Shochi made it to 2014, Moscow is saying no to 2016. Voting and choosing a winner also involves sentimentalism (remember Athens) so I think this is what Russia and Spain are doing. Of course, this is not enough to win a bid, but I'll give them some credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOlympiadsW Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Madrid played the same card. After Jaca missing the short list, they anounced Madrid will bid for 2016.Now that Shochi made it to 2014, Moscow is saying no to 2016. Voting and choosing a winner also involves sentimentalism (remember Athens) so I think this is what Russia and Spain are doing. Of course, this is not enough to win a bid, but I'll give them some credit. I disagree, this is not at all the same as what Spain did....Moscow admitted in their announcement yesterday that the MAIN reason for not bidding for 2016 was "they would stand no chance" and said that they would NOT be bidding regardless of Sochi's 2014 success, and they could have easily bid without harming Sochi's 2014 chances.....that is hardly the same as what Madrid did....Moscow, like Italy, is using common sense and avoiding what will ultimately prove to be a major mistake for Madrid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCD 2012 Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 the Moscow recusal is a strategy to help Sochi.if Sochi don´t win in Guatemala perhaps Moscow will change and return to the race... Get real ! The IOC ain gonna award a 4th european olympic game in the span of 15 years ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nykfan845 Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Don't forget Toronto and Buenos Aires. Toronto was at the most, mildly interested. But it is highly doubtful that they will bid for 2016, with a 2015 Expo bid underway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenadian Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 The set-up for the Games of 2016 would have been prime for Toronto if not for that pesky little kid brother city out west. I think Moscow's decision has more to do with lessons learned from losing on the first ballot last year than they do for the geopolitics of London having won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted July 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Now that Shochi made it to 2014, Moscow is saying no to 2016. Voting and choosing a winner also involves sentimentalism (remember Athens) so I think this is what Russia and Spain are doing. Of course, this is not enough to win a bid, but I'll give them some credit. As I said, one has no bearing on the other. So what if Moscow isn't bidding? That doesn't mean Sochi immediately becomes the most viable candidate for 2014. What if PyongChang has the better mountain layout? WHat if Salzburg has the better indoor arenas? So, I will vote for Sochi just because the capital of a great sporting country decides NOT to push its capital as a summer candidate? It may have worked in 1986 when elections were held in the same session. Samaranch & the Barcelona forces rallied to make sure Albertville won so that certainly the IOC voters then felt constrained to award the Summer Games to the other French contender, Paris. But you CAN'T vote for a one-season candidate because the other-seaon capital city won't run. ALright, let's say that the USOC will not put up Tahoe-Reno, Denver and ANchorage for 2018 or 2022, w/ the underlying message to the IOC that because we (the USOC) are not going after the next Winter round, you should definitely vote for our 2016 Summer candidate. To a logical mind, it doesn't work that way. This is like some warped-minded members here who think that the US does not have a fighting chance in hosting WC 2014 or 2018 and believe only that strong passion for the game is the sole criterion. Hmmm, yet they are blind to the fact that WC 1994 has the HIGHEST STADIUM attendance on record of ANY World Cup, the recently concluded Germany 2006 included. Then they come up with some totally lame excuse like -- oh, but it wasn't great. Absolute BULL! We'll be saying that of Germany 2006 after 2010. I sure hope you don't belong to that school, rastrafario. Also, Madrid would look even more stupid than Istanbul if they persisted with a 2016 run. You know, after LA hosted in 1984, which were the only 2 cities wanting 1988: 2 Asian cities. After the Games were won by Seoul in 1988, which cities ran for 1992? Primarily European cities: Amsterdam, Barcelona, Belgrade, Birmingham (UK), Paris, and ONE Aussie city, Brisbane. At least the cities and NOCs were sensible at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Why are you all so bothered by the chance there maybe European bids, if they don't stand much of a chance anyway they will surely be no threat to a possible US city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rastafario Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 As I said, one has no bearing on the other. So what if Moscow isn't bidding? That doesn't mean Sochi immediately becomes the most viable candidate for 2014. What if PyongChang has the better mountain layout? WHat if Salzburg has the better indoor arenas? So, I will vote for Sochi just because the capital of a great sporting country decides NOT to push its capital as a summer candidate? It may have worked in 1986 when elections were held in the same session. Samaranch & the Barcelona forces rallied to make sure Albertville won so that certainly the IOC voters felt restrained to THEN award the Summer Games to Paris. But you CAN'T vote for a one-season candidate because the other capital city won't run. ALright, in that case, let the USOC say it will not put up Tahoe-Reno, Denver and ANchorage for 2018 or 2022, w/ the underlying message to the IOC that because we are not going after the next Winter round, you should definitely vote for our 2016 SUmmer candidate. To a logical mind, it doesn't work that way. But, rastafario, if you think like other warped-minded members who think that the US does not have a fighting chance for WC 2014 or 2018, then indeed the sports-organizations of the world are WARPED and I would urge the USOC to have nothing to do with them. P.S. Madrid would look even more stupid than Istanbul if they persisted with a 2016 run. You know, after LA hosted in 1984, which cities ran for 1988: 2 Asian cities? After the Games were won by Seoul in 1988, which cities ran for 1992? Primarily European cities: Amsterdam, Barcelona, Belgrade, Birmingham, Paris, and ONE Aussie city, Brisbane. At least the cities and NOCs at that time were sensible. You're fairly new to the game, kid. There are some long-standing unwritten rules which still hold. I know there are many rules going on, and I think every country should play all of them in order to have a better chance to win the games. I think you realise Madrid is bidding in order to have a better chance in 2020 or 2024, just as Berlin and Hamburg are doing, and that's probably why Moscow and Rome quit our of the race in 2016, but I think Madrid's game is to play the role of the city who could win the 2016 games (even though they no they have almost no chances) but that will give them more chances over Rome, German cities and any other possible bidder. Why do you think Australia bid with Brisbane in '92, with Melbourne in '96 untill finally winning with Sydney in 2000? Its all a long term strategy. Lond term strategies can make you succed even against monsters such as Beijing. And that's just what Madrid is doing right now. I think almost everyone agrees that America as a continent has a very decent chance to get the games in 2016, that's we hear so many rumors from American cities to bid. Without trying to create more waves on the water, and hoping this will not offend any people from the US, I do think you should pay attention to what other cities are doing, even if its Madrid. We shoudl all look outside of our little bubble and analyze every possibilities before descrediting any other bids nt coming from the US. Every cities has pros and cons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted July 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 I think Moscow's decision has more to do with lessons learned from losing on the first ballot last year than they do for the geopolitics of London having won. I think Moscow's loss is also a lesson for LA this time. The IOC is not crazy about older venues used within living memory of the members still around. It's that new car smell festish of the IOC. They like the smell of new stadia & venues; after all they are used to riding in brand-new Rolls's and Mercedes's. They don't like visiting the smelly gyms of past Olympiads. Neither LA (1984) nor London (I believe) used, or will be using any of the venues from 1932 or 1948. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOlympiadsW Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 it's not that it bothers anyone that European cities bid...I mean hey, it's their money, reputation, and time.....but rather the foolishness of their supporters that believe beyond a reasonable doubt that their city stands a good chance, when the fact is they don't....and Europe is FAR from a threat to any bid from outside of Europe for 2016.....that became a fact last July Madrid doesn't need to bid for 2016 to establish their bid, they did this in 2012....and cities SHOULD NOT have to bid over and over again to win...it isn't good, and often doesn't work.....rather they should bid when the timing and the bid is right....and unfortunately for Madrid 2016 isn't the year... and no one is living in a "bubble"....except the people who fail to admit Europe stands very little chance at 2016......not even all of JAS' interesting "tactics" and "forces" will be able to pull this one off for them! but thank god some European cities/nations like Italy and Russia have common sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenadian Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Well, LA 32 and LA 84 shared the main stadium, but that's one of LA's iconic sports arenas, so no big deal. As an Olympic city, Moscow is just not exciting enough anymore. Been there, done that. I don't think Europe is completely eliminated - a credible bid from Berlin, Rome or even Paris could certainly hold its own if the field included weaker bids from the other regions of the world. If the USOC appointed Houston and Japan appointed Fukuoka and the other bids came from Beirut, Baghdad and Nairobi, it would be foolish of the IOC to dismiss strong European bids in favour of a rotation policy that doesn't officially exist. But even while the unofficial rotation favours places like South America, the USA and some parts of Asia, the bid still has to measure up. If geopolitics were all that existed, we'd be talking about Rio 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted July 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Why are you all so bothered by the chance there maybe European bids, if they don't stand much of a chance anyway they will surely be no threat to a possible US city. Just to get them outta the way. Precisely, they don't stand much of a chance, then if I were in their shoes, why should I even bother to bid -- as Rome and Moscow are sensibly doing? As you can probably glean, I'm very, VERY competitive, Stu -- and I believe in the 'scorched earth' policy when applicable. He-he!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nykfan845 Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Why are you all so bothered by the chance there maybe European bids, if they don't stand much of a chance anyway they will surely be no threat to a possible US city. We're just mindboggled about why they're bidding in the first place. An Olympic bid don't come cheap, and it's odd to me that a city is pretty much wasting money to a bid that is virtually unwinnable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ñuto Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Get real ! The IOC ain gonna award a 4th european olympic game in the span of 15 years ... Spain is a european country,but is an african one too and iberoamerican,of course. that is difficult to understand for a lot of people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOlympiadsW Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 Spain is a european country,but is an african one too and iberoamerican,of course.that is difficult to understand for a lot of people... OMG this has to be the most hilarious post from you (and that's saying a lot)....I would love for Madrid to say they are an African or iboamerican city to the IOC just to see their reaction....that would be worth the wasted millions Madrid will be putting into their bid alone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ñuto Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 OMG this has to be the most hilarious post from you (and that's saying a lot)....I would love for Madrid to say they are an African or iboamerican city to the IOC just to see their reaction....that would be worth the wasted millions Madrid will be putting into their bid alone! thank you I don´t say that Madrid is an african city,I said that Spain is an european,african and iberoamerican country and I repeat it. Don´t worry,is normal that you don´t know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted July 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 Spain is a european country,but is an african one too and iberoamerican,of course.that is difficult to understand for a lot of people... Is it also Martian? It's really quite an illiterate statement. I'm surprised your fellow countryman, mikel, hasn't hunted you down & fed you to the vultures for such a bizarre statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOlympiadsW Posted July 22, 2006 Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 thank youI don´t say that Madrid is an african city,I said that Spain is an european,african and iberoamerican country and I repeat it. Don´t worry,is normal that you don´t know it. call it whatever you want, please tell that to the IOC that would be hilarious....your funny nuto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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