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San Francisco Shows It Hand


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Oh, T, Ratto doesn't think with his feet -- what more his head? He's a total meshuggana. Anything Ratto writes is... like gas, totally passing.

I know nothing about this guy so I will bow to your wisdom.

Have you heard anything about the 49ers moving tho? I haven't -

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Also, what local venue might replace HP Pavillion? A new facility might be nice, but I can imagine the "controversy" that it could cause in SF now that the mayor is pushing for other projects (Transbay Terminal, a new tallest skyscraper, universal healthcare).

They could probably upgrade the Cow Palace to replace the HP Pavillion. It also has the benefit of being (relatively close) to the new SF Metro extension line.

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What's the Avery AC? It wasn't included in the 2012 plan. Maybe they'll put water polo there -- and have swimming, diving, & synchro still at Santa Clara? THe thing about splitting disciplines like that is the Federation kinda gets split.

Rowing? They could move it to Redwood Shores; but they'd have to build a nice marina for it; and at least use it 6 mos-a year before 2016. Where's the San Andreas Lake? Remember, the Rowing Federation got a nice course in Athens; I'm sure they're getting a good one in London. Whereas for LA and Atlanta, they just got shoved to the farther reaches with the natural lakes; so they may not take too kindly to being shoved far away again.

The Avery AC is the aquatics complex at Stanford University. It is hosting the FINA World Masters Championships this year. It is an outdoors center and the main pool currently seats about 2500

San Andreas Lake and Crystal Springs reservoir are those two long lakes in the center of the peninsula along 280, close to the 92 interchange. Absolutely stunning setting, but I somehow doubt the environmentalists around here would allow rowing to be held there.

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The Avery AC is the aquatics complex at Stanford University. It is hosting the FINA World Masters Championships this year. It is an outdoors center and the main pool currently seats about 2500

Depends on what Stanford will allow for it; and what technical specs it would be best for; I mean, is there room for underwater cameras, a boom, what dressing rooms there are, etc. ?

San Andreas Lake and Crystal Springs reservoir are those two long lakes in the center of the peninsula along 280, close to the 92 interchange. Absolutely stunning setting, but I somehow doubt the environmentalists around here would allow rowing to be held there.

Yeah; they probably wouldn't touch those. As I said previously, I think they're studing the Oakland Estuary or somewhere near Alameda, where you could have a lot of land-based support services closeby.

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They could probably upgrade the Cow Palace to replace the HP Pavillion. It also has the benefit of being (relatively close) to the new SF Metro extension line.

I agree - that facility needs a major updating.

Building a new place to replace it out at Candlestick to me would be a good idea. It and an Olympic stadium together would help centralize things nicely.

Speaking of Candlestick - I've never been - I'm a Bears fan. :D Does BART run to it? I've never seen a station near it ?

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Speaking of Candlestick - I've never been - I'm a Bears fan. :D Does BART run to it? I've never seen a station near it ?

No. BART doesn't go there; because if there's no game or event, nothing happens there. But I think the 3rd St. surface Streetcar line might, repeat 'might, get extended out there if 2016 happens.

Building a new place to replace it out at Candlestick to me would be a good idea. It and an Olympic stadium together would help centralize things nicely.

The thing about that though, is priorities. There's not enough money to fix SF General, and Laguna Honda (altho they've supposedly found funds for that) -- but a gym will get priority? That'll set off riots in SF!! :D

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am i wrong in saying that momentum might just be turning/swinging in SF's favour...

It might be. SF Mayor Gavin Newsom's office is releasing bits about the stadium and housing little by little. Here's what I think will happen, but nobody's officially saying so for now.

- new 49er Stadium will get built, using private sources. That would include an initial set of some 2,000 condos/apts around the stadium. They would probably shoot for 2011 on that, so indeed SF could host the 2011 IAAF World Champs w/ a brand new setting that the IAAF wants. After those WOrld Champs, those apts would then be released for general housing.

- Clean-up at Hunters Point will continue. And they would have a decade to finish that and build wave 2 of some 4,000 apts/residences there which would serve as the full Olympic Village come 2016. THat would be the slowed timetable if SF wins the US honors, and wins the bid in 2009. (Otherwise, I am sure Lennar or whomever housing developer that will do Hunters Point, will accelerate their project if it's not tied to a 2016 usage.)

So, all in all, over a 10-year period, SF would be adding some 6,000 residential units to its housing stock. I think that is the plan SF is trying to put together. Thoughts, anyone?

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My only concern about SF, and always has been, is that the politics of the city could make Athens look like a cakewalk. Otherwise, I think it could host a great games and for me personally, a much more convenient one to attend! :D

I would like to be the placard bearer for Australia if we do get them. :wub:

The earlier comment about SF General/Laguna Honda is a valid one. What is going to happen when things need to be built? Will one of our leftists supervisors put a ballot initiative out there for or against the games? I just see real danger that SF could turn into another Denver '76 problem unless The Gav gets the full support from the Board of Supervisors now.

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The earlier comment about SF General/Laguna Honda is a valid one. What is going to happen when things need to be built? Will one of our leftists supervisors put a ballot initiative out there for or against the games? I just see real danger that SF could turn into another Denver '76 problem unless The Gav gets the full support from the Board of Supervisors now.

I don't know how many of the present (or future) supes were incumbent at the time of the 2012 bid, but I think most of them are returnees. And I think they have been sounded out enough as to where they may stand vis-a-vis a full-steam ahead bid. I think if any of the more influential ones were totally and vehemently opposed to the idea, they probably would've voiced their outcry and made that very public while it is early to nip such a thing in the bud.

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I agree - that facility needs a major updating.

Building a new place to replace it out at Candlestick to me would be a good idea. It and an Olympic stadium together would help centralize things nicely.

Speaking of Candlestick - I've never been - I'm a Bears fan. :D Does BART run to it? I've never seen a station near it ?

Candlestick has no real convenient spot for San Francisco rail transit. Football games there are dependent on diesel bus "shuttles" and automobiles.

What's really good to note though is that San Francisco's new 3rd Street metro rail line does come very close to Candlestick Park. If anything, to augment transportation to the new proposed Candlestick Park and possible Olympic Stadium, San Francisco could extend the new rail line to terminate at Candlestick. Not only would it be able to shuttle fans to Niners' games and the Olympics, but it would also serve the Hunter's Point area later on, not to mention it would be a direct link to Downtown San Francisco and the new proposed Crosstown subway system a block from AT&T Park.

B)

If you take a look at this map... you can see that it shouldn't be too hard to loop the Metro line towards Candlestick and Hunters Point. And the fact that it connects to Caltrain, which connects to Stanford and Santa Clara... It can act as a major conduit for Olympic travellers. Caltrain could probably boost Baby Bullet Train service to accomodate the crowds.

http://www.sfmuni.com/cms/msc/const/images...612-3rd-Map.gif

I just thought of a location for rowing that might fit the 2200m x 50m requirement Baron stated, how about Lake Merced in San Francisco?

My high school practices there. It's good enough for them to win back-to-back National Championships 2005 and 2006. And trounce International competition at the Henley Royal Regatta. :D

It might work... but I dunno.

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My high school practices there. It's good enough for them to win back-to-back National Championships 2005 and 2006. And trounce International competition at the Henley Royal Regatta. :D

It might work... but I dunno.

I think Merced is a little short on the required dimensions PLUS a place to put viewing stands and parking lots. Maybe right now, the course can take a few 8-oars. But when you have 8 boats competing as in the Olympic heats, you will need the full 2200 x 50-60m wide course. If they will allow it to be reshaped considerably, it might work. I don't know about the wind conditions though.

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I think Merced is a little short on the required dimensions PLUS a place to put viewing stands and parking lots. Maybe right now, the course can take a few 8-oars. But when you have 8 boats competing as in the Olympic heats, you will need the full 2200 x 50-60m wide course. If they will allow it to be reshaped considerably, it might work. I don't know about the wind conditions though.

Not too sure.

My high school practices there. I haven't seen them row since I was in high school years ago. I'm not sure how/if the lake can be reconfigured. I don't believe there's much wind there, as it's protected by a lot of trees and a golf course. But it is in the fog bank area of SF... so who knows.

And if not Lake Merced, then there's Redwood Shores, Lake Chabot, Larkspur Landing, Lexington Reservoir, etc.

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San Jose will host a major venue for sure (gymnastics at the @ HP). It seems that some don't recognize San Jose's political presence. However, it is the largest city in population and land area in the Bay Area. And besides, the HP Pavilion isn't just any regular arena. It is a world class facility and arguably the best that the Bay Area has to offer.

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San Jose will host a major venue for sure (gymnastics at the @ HP). It seems that some don't recognize San Jose's political presence. However, it is the largest city in population and land area in the Bay Area. And besides, the HP Pavilion isn't just any regular arena. It is a world class facility and arguably the best that the Bay Area has to offer.

There's always been animosity between San Francisco and San Jose. San Jose, no matter how big it gets, will always be that "Wannabe City." I don't think there's one person in the Silicon Valley or teh Bay Area that will say "San Jose is 'better'." Efforts to get people to downtown SJ and to Santana Row fall flat. San Francisco has that looming presence. That's why San Jose always seems to play second fiddle to San Francisco... no matter how large it gets. (The fact that the mayor was indicted for corruption certainly doesn't help.)

In eitehr case... the Shark Tank will probably be a venue. It is world class, and will probably only need minor updates.

But I certainly wouldn't discount San Francisco building its own arena. The ideas been tossed around since the Willy Brown era.

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San Jose will host a major venue for sure (gymnastics at the @ HP). It seems that some don't recognize San Jose's political presence. However, it is the largest city in population and land area in the Bay Area. And besides, the HP Pavilion isn't just any regular arena. It is a world class facility and arguably the best that the Bay Area has to offer.

That was in the 2012 plan. Unless they switch things around, that might still hold since that arrangement didn't get too many objections.

Basically, what are changing from the 2012 SF bid I believe are:

1. Ceremonies/Athletics - from Stanford to the new 49er Stadium in Candlestick in SF. (ALso just learned that the 49er backup plan, in case its SF plan hits a snag w/in SF's tricky political landscape, is at a site in Santa Clara -- which basically means bye-bye 2016.)

2. the Village - from Moffett Field to Bayview-Hunter's Point, hopefully -- without those dickheads whose coordinates I will give to the Israeli airforce as a Hezbollah cell... B) he-he

3. I would think they would move Equestrian from Monterrey to Pacbell Park since that will no longer be used for baseball.

4. Weightlifting will have to be moved from the Kaiser Convention Center in Oakland, since the City of Oakland wants to turn that into their new high-tech Library.

5. Football/soccer could now be in: Stanford, Networks Arena (the Raiders' home), and wherever the new home field for the returned Earthquakes will be. I think in the Fremont area. And if they will upgrade Spartan Stadium in San Jose -- then there will be 4 venues within the Bay Area to house all M&W football matches.

6. Rowing? Lake Chabot is a nice setting but I don't think it's wide enough. I think they're looking for a place around Alameda Island -- either the Inner Harbor area, or just looking at the map, maybe in San Leandro Bay which is protected on 3 sides, and just across the freeway from the Oakland Arena/Coliseum complex.

That's as far as I can surmise. It makes it already 80% better than the 2012 plan.

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There's always been animosity between San Francisco and San Jose. San Jose, no matter how big it gets, will always be that "Wannabe City." I don't think there's one person in the Silicon Valley or teh Bay Area that will say "San Jose is 'better'." Efforts to get people to downtown SJ and to Santana Row fall flat. San Francisco has that looming presence. That's why San Jose always seems to play second fiddle to San Francisco... no matter how large it gets. (The fact that the mayor was indicted for corruption certainly doesn't help.)

In eitehr case... the Shark Tank will probably be a venue. It is world class, and will probably only need minor updates.

But I certainly wouldn't discount San Francisco building its own arena. The ideas been tossed around since the Willy Brown era.

That is absolutely ridiculous saying that San Jose is the "wannabe city" of San Francisco. They are totally different cities and aren't trying to emulate one another. Downtown SJ isn't really "happening" but efforts to get people to Santana Row fall flat? Perhaps you should check it out more often - it's definitely not flat by any means. How did this suddenly become a debate on which city was "better"? There are many pros and cons of each city and each is unique as they provide totally different things. I was merely saying that San Jose has a world class venue and that its presence can't and will not be ignored as currently planned in the 2016 SF games plans.

But anyway, I think it will be great to see a wonderfully collaborative effort by the Bay Area to organize a successful games.

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That is absolutely ridiculous saying that San Jose is the "wannabe city" of San Francisco. They are totally different cities and aren't trying to emulate one another. Downtown SJ isn't really "happening" but efforts to get people to Santana Row fall flat? Perhaps you should check it out more often - it's definitely not flat by any means. How did this suddenly become a debate on which city was "better"? There are many pros and cons of each city and each is unique as they provide totally different things. I was merely saying that San Jose has a world class venue and that its presence can't and will not be ignored as currently planned in the 2016 SF games plans.

But anyway, I think it will be great to see a wonderfully collaborative effort by the Bay Area to organize a successful games.

First off welcome to the board Bohemian. Nice to have another Bay Area person on board.

So yesterday I had 8 interviews down in Palo Alto and Menlo Park. :blink: Needless to say I was somewhat dazed and confused by the time I left. <_<

Anywho, I made the HUGE mistake of taking the 101 home at 4:30 in the afternoon. All I could think about, 1/2 hour later when I finally made it to Candlestick, and then a 1/2 hour after that when I finally made it over the Bay Bridge to Oakland is, "God, I hope SF 2016 doesn't try and do a Bay Area games again.

HP Pavilion is a great structure but I think it would be a HUGE mistake to put any major competitions down in the South Bay, especially gymnastics. Granted, there is a train from SF to San Jose that would work for transportation of spectators. But from a transportation of athletes, officials and those spectators who will always insist on driving, from and accesibility and ease of commuting standpoint, maybe only the minor sports should go down to San Jose.

As far as San Jose's involvement in the process - they aren't bidding. San Francisco is taking all the risk of hosting the games. So I really don't think any city in the Bay Area is automatically entitled to host any events.

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And here we go - I knew it was only a matter of time :angry:

Supervisor Wants San Francisco To Vote On Holding Olympics

Shouldn't be a problem...

Thursday, October 03, 2002

Bay Area Poll Supports San Francisco 2012

According to a poll to be released today, almost nine out of 10 registered voters surveyed last month reacted favourably to a question about holding the Olympics in the Bay Area.

BASOC President Anne Cribbs told the Mercury News, “I think it is important that both the USOC and IOC want to go some place where they are wanted”.

According to the poll 77 per cent of respondents said they have a great deal of interest or some interest in the Olympics in general. Ninety per cent said they are aware that San Francisco and New York have recently been selected as possible Olympic sites. And of the nine per cent who reacted negatively to a local Olympics, most cited traffic congestion as their biggest concern.

John Canapary a partner in the firm that conducted the poll said, “the numbers are fairly dramatic. In the Bay Area we always have different factions. You are going to have people against anything”.

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And here we go - I knew it was only a matter of time :angry:

Supervisor Wants San Francisco To Vote On Holding Olympics

Well, it won't count if it's only in SF -- because it's a Bay Area-wide event anchored in SF. So the only way it will stand up will be if it involves ALL the communities hosting Olympic events. Somebody has to sit down with this Sandoval and read him the riot act.

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Shouldn't be a problem...

Thursday, October 03, 2002

Bay Area Poll Supports San Francisco 2012

According to a poll to be released today, almost nine out of 10 registered voters surveyed last month reacted favourably to a question about holding the Olympics in the Bay Area.

BASOC President Anne Cribbs told the Mercury News, “I think it is important that both the USOC and IOC want to go some place where they are wanted”.

According to the poll 77 per cent of respondents said they have a great deal of interest or some interest in the Olympics in general. Ninety per cent said they are aware that San Francisco and New York have recently been selected as possible Olympic sites. And of the nine per cent who reacted negatively to a local Olympics, most cited traffic congestion as their biggest concern.

John Canapary a partner in the firm that conducted the poll said, “the numbers are fairly dramatic. In the Bay Area we always have different factions. You are going to have people against anything”.

This is good but a little dated. A new poll should be taken; and maybe with what people have seen of Athens 2004, Torino and Germany this year, the number of supporters will increase.

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