Poland re-enters Olympic bid race, now targeting 2040 or 2044

[GBModerator]

Poland has never hosted or bid for the Summer Games, but the nation failed in Winter Games bids by resort town Zakopane for 2006 and a 2022 campaign by Krakow that was later withdrawn after almost 70 percent voted against the project in a referendum

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[iceman530]

The only option would logically be Warsaw, right?

[sebastien1214]

47 minutes ago, iceman530 said:

The only option would logically be Warsaw, right?

It could be Krakow too.

[FYI]

For a Summer Olympics?!  That would make Brisbane look like a megalopolis host!  Krakow only makes sense for a Winter Games.

And interesting how all these countries that were initially interested in 2036, i.e. Germany, U.K., Poland - have now all shifted their intent to 2040/44.  Who'll be next to declare a shift after they said no to '36, Mexico?

They know something we don't? This seems to suggest to me, that the IOC has in so many words may have told some countries, "we've already set our sights on who we're giving 2036 to. So come back later". 

[StefanMUC]

2 minutes ago, FYI said:

For a Summer Olympics?!  That would make Brisbane look like a megalopolis host!  Krakow only makes sense for a Winter Games.

And interesting how all these countries that were initially interested in 2036, i.e. Germany, U.K., Poland - have now all shifted their intent to 2040/44.  Who'll be next to declare a shift after they said no to '36, Mexico?

They know something we don't? This seems to suggest to me, that the IOC has in so many words may have told some countries, "we've already set our sights on who we're giving 2036 to. So come back later". 

As a wider region (like Brisbane/Gold Coast), Kraków together with the (relatively) near Silesian cities also has a few million people and in Chorzów, there's a state of the art athletics stadium with 55k seats that will host the 2028 European Championships. Distance Kraków/Chorzów is more or less Brisbane/GC by public transport.

Germany has actually still not given any clear sign for which year (and city/-ies) there will be a bit coming forward. While before Paris it sounded indeed more like 2040, some statements in Paris were leaving also 2036 still open.

[sebastien1214]

1 minute ago, FYI said:

For a Summer Olympics?!  That would make Brisbane look like a megalopolis host!  Krakow only makes sense for a Winter Games.

The gap between Warsaw and Krakow is not as huge as one might think; Krakow and its metropolitan area have 1.5 million inhabitants. Of course, it remains sparsely populated compared to the average host city, but it is not impossible. And if you take Polish Silesia as a whole, we are at around 4-5 million inhabitants.

I see two potential candidates in Poland, Warsaw, or Krakow but which would rely on its region, a bit like the Rhine-Ruhr.

For example, on the Katowice side, which is only 80km from Krakow, there is in particular the Stadion Śląski, with 55,000 seats, which can be used as a stadium for athletics (this was also the case for the 2023 European Games). You also have the Spodek, an arena with 10,000 spectators which can also host events such as volleyball. And that's without counting what's already in Krakow (for example, they have the Tauron Arena with 15,000 seats, for basketball it could be good).

Of course, there will probably be a need to build facilities, but the idea of a candidacy that relies on Krakow and its region doesn't seem so crazy to me. And then, the Polish government is also launching infrastructure development projects; a new international airport is planned, the development of high-speed train lines... so it's not so incongruous.

[FYI]

18 minutes ago, sebastien1214 said:

The gap between Warsaw and Krakow is not as huge as one might think

They're still 183 miles apart. That's not exactly right next door to each other, either.

29 minutes ago, StefanMUC said:

As a wider region (like Brisbane/Gold Coast), Kraków together with the (relatively) near Silesian cities also has a few million people

21 minutes ago, sebastien1214 said:

And then, the Polish government is also launching infrastructure development projects; a new international airport is planned, the development of high-speed train lines... so it's not so incongruous.

Still, why settle for Krakow when Warsaw is available? Has Paris 2024 not taught us anything that a compact Games is more exciting than being all spread out?

Krakow may be similar to Brisbane when including nearby "regions", but let's see how well that spread out plan actually works out first come 2032 before we start making that acceptable & proposing it for other smaller cities & it's adjacent areas (plus, let's keep in mind how Brisbane came to be ITFP).

Poland has never hosted, so I see no reason why it should be anything less than Warsaw at this point, even if Krakow appears on paper "doable" on paper. And as you two alluded to, Krakow (& probably even Warsaw) still have a lot of work to do anyway.

People are still bemoaning about Ahmedabad, so I see no reason why Poland shouldn't also put it's best foot forward if they're going to go through with this.

[StefanMUC]

The compactness of Paris is really not something that can be expected ftom every host if we also want sustainability.

It‘s not as if LA is anywhere compact by Paris standards either.

I don‘t have figures, but I think Kraków is anyway the tourist capital of Poland, more so than Warsaw (not the least because that was basically razed to the ground by my country‘s shameless troops in WW2).

 

[FYI]

No, of course not. But Warsaw certainly would be much more compact than Krakow. And L.A. is L.A. It was basically a default candidate anyway when Boston didn't want it anymore. And what better way to leave some sort of Olympic legacy in Warsaw when yes, it was basically destroyed by the Germans during the war.

[sebastien1214]

4 minutes ago, FYI said:

They're still 183 miles apart. That's not exactly right next door to each other, either.

Still, why settle for Krakow when Warsaw is available? Has Paris 2024 not taught us anything that a compact Games is more exciting than being all spread out?

Krakow may be similar to Brisbane when including nearby "regions", but let's see how well that spread out plan actually works out first come 2032 before we start making that acceptable & proposing it for other smaller cities & it's adjacent areas (plus, let's keep in mind how Brisbane came to be ITFP).

Poland has never hosted, so I see no reason why it should be anything less than Warsaw at this point, even if Krakow appears on paper "doable" on paper. And as you two alluded to, Krakow (& probably even Warsaw) still have a lot of work to do anyway.

People are still bemoaning about Ahmedabad, so I see no reason why Poland shouldn't also put it's best foot forward if they're going to go through with this.

For the comparison between Warsaw and Krakow I was talking in terms of population, not distance. I would be surprised if Poland submitted a bid that would be spread across the country, it doesn't make sense. It will be either Warsaw or Krakow (& its region), not both at the same time.

From what I see on the map of locations for LA 2028, there are around 80km between the most distant facilities (I took the Honda Center & Santa Monica). That is the distance between Krakow and Katowice. As for Brisbane, it seems that the distance between the most distant facilities is around 100-120km. So a bid that relies on Krakow and Katowice (for example) would not be a big novelty, in the end. Do not forget that European cities are more "compact" than American/Australian cities.

In reality, Paris 2024 is mostly an exception. Even compared to other European capitals, Paris is a "small" city (but above all a very dense city).

And as Stefan points out, the tourist capital of Poland is not Warsaw but Krakow. It also has a more central position in Europe than Warsaw. And Poland may well want to develop the country's 2nd city to avoid having too many things centralized in Warsaw, after all.

[FYI]

4 minutes ago, sebastien1214 said:

And Poland may well want to develop the country's 2nd city to avoid having too many things centralized in Warsaw, after all.

I'm sure many think the same around France, that it's always "Paris, Paris, PARIS!" Yet that's who the 2024 host was. Not Lyon, Marseille or Toulouse, which I'm sure all have their own amount of tourists as well & would like to have more attention from the central gov't.

[sebastien1214]

5 minutes ago, FYI said:

I'm sure many think the same around France, that it's always "Paris, Paris, PARIS!" Yet that's who the 2024 host was. Not Lyon, Marseille or Toulouse, which I'm sure all have their own amount of tourists as well & would like to have more attention from the central gov't.

But Paris (including its metropolitan area) is 7x more populated than the 2nd largest metropolitan area in France. A ratio of 1:7, so in Poland between Warsaw and Krakow it's 1:2.

Even in the UK, between Greater London and Greater Manchester, it's 1:4 or 1:5. France is really a unique case. Everything has been built around Paris since 1789 (and even before): roads, railways, institutions, population flows since the industrial revolution... and it's not for nothing that all previous attempts by other French cities to have the SOG organization (Lille for 2004 being the most recent) have all been a huge failure, without any real support at the government level.

[yoshi]

This feels like Poland putting down a marker as the next but one European host, with them mentioning 2044 as well. Like they're planning to stake out the process, then go properly on the next attempt. I confess to not knowing all that much about Poland, obviously Warsaw is the capital & Krakow is where the tourists go, plus there's a Ruhr-like clutch of cities in Silesia. But the mix of being in Central/Eastern Europe while also being a rising international power & a new frontier for the Olympics is a compelling one... will be interesting to see how this goes. 

[Sir Rols]

1 hour ago, FYI said:

Has Paris 2024 not taught us anything that a compact Games is more exciting than being all spread out?

I’m not sure if “compactness” was the key takeaway or remarked upon aspect from Paris. More like that temporary venues can absolutely shine if used creatively. Beyond the fact that Paris is a more compact city than many in and of itself, I’m not that convinced it was that compact anyway. There was a lovely agglomeration of very pretty temporary venues in the city centre, but key venues like the Stade de France and La Defense were hardly next door to them. Not far distant, but not adjacent either. I don’t think LA is going to suffer because it’s naturally a more sprawling urban area.

i’ve always thought compactness was way over-rated anyway. Many “greatest” games were not that compact. London had a hugely successful Olympic Park, but key areas like Greenwich, O2, Wimbledon, Lea Valley were hardly next door. Sydney’s Olympic Park was far from the city centre (and the bulk of visitors accomodation) and events from beach volleyball to rowing to cycling were located in many cases a very long way away and apart. It sprawled like the city.

[baron-pierreIV]

1 hour ago, sebastien1214 said:

From what I see on the map of locations for LA 2028, there are around 80km between the most distant facilities (I took the Honda Center & Santa Monica).

The two farthest points for SoCal in 2028 if one uses the UCLA Village as a starting point, would be between UCLA and Galway Downs in Temecula (for the Equestrian).  The Driving distance is 117m (or 3.5 hours by surface drive with medium traffic).  

[krow]

luckily the IOC understands that NOBODY on earth wants a poland olympics, and their geopolitical star isn't on the rise as in qatar and india so it lacks that sense of inevitability. there are 50 european cities that could jump the line in front of it, and every person in this thread is secretly relieved by that fact.

i predict they'd be a total disaster from top to bottom. 

[venuedesignlover]

2040 is Germanys to lose.

[FYI]

Quote

luckily the IOC understands that NOBODY on earth wants a poland olympics, and their geopolitical star isn't on the rise as in qatar and india so it lacks that sense of inevitability. there are 50 european cities that could jump the line in front of it, and every person in this thread is secretly relieved by that fact.

i predict they'd be a total disaster from top to bottom. 

Lol, & what makes it even funnier, is how Krakow is being propped up in here. A (smallish) city that didn't want anything to do with the 2022 Winter Olympics. A winter Games that would've been handed to them on a silver-platter, when all that was left to choose from was Beijing & Almaty. And now, they would be totally okay with a SUmmer Olympics, that would cost 4-5 times as much (easily in there case)? Yeah, okay. lol

[Roger87]

If they go to Krakow, then it's funny cause this decision only pleased the far-right considering for the. Krakow is their homeland (Even over Warsaw). 

At least a 2040s bid in Warsaw has some sense in the meaning of the projections for the city and geopolitical strength inside the EU for the upcoming Weimar triangle (Now just a defense, but it's proposed in economic and technological hub in Central Europe alongside Paris and Berlin). 

Also Warsaw is having a construction boom and repatriation of skilled people thanks to Brexit. Warsaw also has the meaning of the liberal pro-European Polish lighthouse.

With Warsaw, sure they would need to build venues, but at least this plan would have another meaning with the proper expansion and development of the capital as the new cosmopolitan European metropolis and can perfectly adapted to the needs of the city following the example of Barcelona.

Krakow Is asthestically beautiful but beyond going to the Polish past, the bid is not worthy.

[Roger87]

Now, if European bids changed the idea to 2040, then 2036 is confirmed to India. 

[stryker]

For Poland it would have to be a country-wide bid with the athletics stadium in Chorzow and events spread between Warsaw and Krakow most likely with Gdansk for sailing. Warsaw has a relatively new national stadium and Legia Warsaw also has a new stadium so any athletics stadium in Warsaw would be doomed to be a white elephant.