Because I love chaos: London 2012 vs. Paris 2024

[Australian Kiwi]

Just reopening old wounds for the hell of it. 

[Australian Kiwi]

[Australian Kiwi]

"what do you mean Brisbane was the only candidate????"

[Sir Rols]

I honestly don’t think I can answer that. One I enjoyed in person, the other I enjoyed vicariously. I would have certainly wanted to go to Paris, but couldn’t at the for… reasons. I’m glad we’ve had both and the Olympics are lucky to have had both. I wouldn’t have traded one for the other.

sorry for fence-sitting.

[Rob2012]

Very comparable in so many ways, but the ceremonies put London ahead. Or rather, they put Paris behind.

I might write a longer post later, when I've thought about it more. But I doubt my overall conclusion will deviate much from that.

[sebastien1214]

I voted for Paris by pure nationalism but the truth is that it's too hard to decide. There are points on which London is better (ceremonies even if I'm not as severe), points on which Paris is better (the places, no failing security where we have to call the army...). But basically, if the question of deciding between London and Paris arises, it is proof that Paris has lived up to what was expected of it, that is to say to be great games. That's enough for me.

[Australian Kiwi]

Poll Closed. 

4-4 split. 

The way it should be.

 

[Rob2012]

1 hour ago, sebastien1214 said:

no failing security where we have to call the army...

Nah, there was no failing security during London 2012. There was a failed contractor in the months before the Games, but the army were ready to step up and actually, as a result the Games were almost certainly better run than if G4S had delivered on their contract. The army personnel were professional and personable in all the venues, as opposed to the new minimum wage trainees we would've got. That was a huge blessing in disguise that improved the Games.

The two biggest organisational plus points for Paris over London were:

1. The stunning in-city venues. London is underrated on this point (I think some people forget Hampton Court Palace, Greenwich Park etc 12 years on), but Paris is unmatched in this regard.

2. The fact that Paris (and let's be honest, the IOC and its ticketing operation because this isn't all on the hosts) managed to redistribute unwanted corporate tickets. That made a difference.

Edited August 12, 2024 by Rob2012

[sebastien1214]

15 minutes ago, Rob2012 said:

Nah, there was no failing security during London 2012. There was a failed contractor in the months before the Games, but the army were ready to step up and actually, as a result the Games were almost certainly better run than if G4S had delivered on their contract. The army personnel were professional and personable in all the venues, as opposed to the new minimum wage trainees we would've got. That was a huge blessing in disguise that improved the Games.

The two biggest organisational plus points for Paris over London were:

1. The stunning in-city venues. London is underrated on this point (I think some people forget Hampton Court Palace, Greenwich Park etc 12 years on), but Paris is unmatched in this regard.

2. The fact that Paris (and let's be honest, the IOC and its ticketing operation because this isn't all on the hosts) managed to redistribute unwanted corporate tickets. That made a difference.

I was making the distinction between security and the army, that's why I mentioned the failure of security since I was specifically targeting G4S; but I guess it sounded better in French than in English.

Because yes, there was no major incident during London 2012, as far as I can remember. But it's still very annoying to have to call on the army when that's not supposed to be its role; I mean, it would have pissed me off too if in Paris we had to call on the army when they're absolutely not trained for that.

[Michelle]

If I was forced to choose…

id say Paris. I did not think I would ever say this. But these were fabulous, memorable and gorgeous games. 

[Michelle]

1 minute ago, Michelle said:

If I was forced to choose…

id say Paris. I did not think I would ever say this. But these were fabulous, memorable and gorgeous games. 

London and Paris are the pinnacle in recent years. 

however, I’m of the belief … Tokyo would have been up there too. Utterly tragic what fell on them. 

Edited August 13, 2024 by Michelle

[baron-pierreIV]

For visuals and historical context, Paris 2024.  For better-run Games, I think London altho I have never forgiven London for setting the Marathon length at that stupid arbirtary number just to appease those inbred, down-syndrome Windsor kids!!  Boo hiss!! 

[venuedesignlover]

1 hour ago, Michelle said:

I’m of the belief … Tokyo would have been up there too. Utterly tragic what fell on them. 

Precisely! I'm glad I have someone on the forum who thinks Tokyo 2020 would have been one of the greatest games ever had it not been for the pandemic. The organization, venue design, atmosphere, and message all would have contributed to a games truly done right. Tokyo 2020 is the golden standard for me in terms of games organization and delivery, including aesthetics and venue design. The Japanese truly knew how to do organize a great games and I would love to see Tokyo awarded a games in the near future though that's probably not going to happen. Paris had more iconic venues, but Tokyo's venues were better designed. Istanbul, Ahmedabad, Berlin, and all future hosts cannot overlook Tokyo 2020 and its true attention to detail and quality in games delivery.

[Michelle]

1 hour ago, venuedesignlover said:

Precisely! I'm glad I have someone on the forum who thinks Tokyo 2020 would have been one of the greatest games ever had it not been for the pandemic. The organization, venue design, atmosphere, and message all would have contributed to a games truly done right. Tokyo 2020 is the golden standard for me in terms of games organization and delivery, including aesthetics and venue design. The Japanese truly knew how to do organize a great games and I would love to see Tokyo awarded a games in the near future though that's probably not going to happen. Paris had more iconic venues, but Tokyo's venues were better designed. Istanbul, Ahmedabad, Berlin, and all future hosts cannot overlook Tokyo 2020 and its true attention to detail and quality in games delivery.

100%. Tokyo would have been an amazing games. The Japanese people are some of the most warm and genuine …  to spend all that money on these games only to have no one attend other than the athletes. It’s just not right. I wish something could have been done to reward Tokyo with a future games soon. But it seems impossible in terms of logistics and given the way the Olympic bid process has already allocated games. But I have huge sympathy for everyone involved with Tokyo. 

[FYI]

Quote

I'm glad I have someone on the forum who thinks Tokyo 2020 would have been one of the greatest games ever had it not been for the pandemic

There's been plenty of us here already, including myself, having that same sentiment ever since the Tokyo 2020ne Games closed. Cause yes, it was a total shame, cause the Japanese no doubt would've delivered spectacular Games.

[baron-pierreIV]

1 hour ago, Michelle said:

100%. Tokyo would have been an amazing games. The Japanese people are some of the most warm and genuine …  to spend all that money on these games only to have no one attend other than the athletes. It’s just not right. I wish something could have been done to reward Tokyo with a future games soon. But it seems impossible in terms of logistics and given the way the Olympic bid process has already allocated games. But I have huge sympathy for everyone involved with Tokyo. 

They're getting the 2025 World Athletics championships next year!!  

[FYI]

That's really not the same thing. 

[Michelle]

35 minutes ago, FYI said:

That's really not the same thing. 

This 👆

[yoshi]

Tokyo should've been given first refusal for 2032. I'm an advocate for going back to the bid process (partly because of what's happening with where actually got 2032) but if there was ever a case for abandoning it & giving an Olympics to a city with no questions asked, that was it. If they refuse, well there'd have still been time for a process. I really hope to see Japan host an Olympics as they're meant to be...

[FYI]

Quote

Tokyo should've been given first refusal for 2032

That would've been over JC's dead body first.

[Australian Kiwi]

1 hour ago, FYI said:

That would've been over JC's dead body first.

Absolutely . 

But logically they should have been the first to get a shot at 2032. Yes, it would have cost them money, but unlike Brisbane at least the bulk of infrastructure would be there (sans village - but they'd have had 11 years to sort that out). Would have been a good fit for continental rotation too. 

[Sir Rols]

7 minutes ago, Australian Kiwi said:

sans village - but they'd have had 11 years to sort that

I’m glad you mentioned that. So many people thinking cities like London, Sydney etc could just pick up an Olympics as a last ditch back-up with little or no lead time, but the village issue is a huge barrier for most anyone bar perhaps LA.

1 hour ago, yoshi said:

if there was ever a case for abandoning it & giving an Olympics to a city with no questions asked, that was it

Yeah, it’s really what should have happened. But too much money already involved and tied to a games happening. And it would have been a disastrous blow to the IOC and the games’ reputation to cancel. So instead we got a games instead that were pretty well run in a stripped-bare technical way, but ultimately short-changed everyone, especially the Japanese.

[venuedesignlover]

I really am of the belief Tokyo would have been up there with Barcelona, London, Sydney had things turned out differently for the world.

[FYI]

Yes, many of us are already in agreement about Tokyo.

[Sir Rols]

47 minutes ago, venuedesignlover said:

I really am of the belief Tokyo would have been up there with Barcelona, London, Sydney had things turned out differently for the world.

They may well have been. Certainly there was a lot of anticipation before he epidemic hit. There was already concern though that a lot of the more artistic youthful boldness initially planned for them was being diluted or downright ignored by the “old men” committee organisers.

But in the end, none of that was to be. Sadly or unfairly they’ll always be the Olympics on the list  with an asterisk beside them that not many people will ever remember as great or up there with the best. We can’t really re-assess something that didn’t happen. Just as I think Paris’ opening could have been a knockout with a few tweaks and without the rain. At the of the day it was one and done, however, and we can only appraise what we have - which really didn’t hit the mark it could have, would have or should have.

Edited August 14, 2024 by Sir Rols